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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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veekie said:
Traditional Five is Earth the Elemental substance.
Imperial Eight is Earth the Ground. Imperials are all Locations
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Which is why I'm annoyed about whether its 土 or 地.

Looking at the Imperial Eight, which I don't think I've seen anywhere else, you can group them into 4 complimentaries/antitheses of each other: 天地；火水；山湖；雷风.
Heaven and Earth. Fire and Water. Mountains and Lakes. Thunder and Wind.

Heaven is the complimentary of Earth in Chinese culture. There're a few examples that I can think of for this. 天然地和, which means that all is right in the world, or 天地人和 which essentially means "golden opportunity due to the world working in your favour".

Fire and Water are obvious.

Mountain and Lakes is... More abstract. What I think this is going for is when talking about more classical art, mountains and water (which would usually be lakes), would be important to the composition of the more scenic pieces.

Thunder and Wind both fuck you up in storms. There are quite a few idioms which use both in that context.

Valmond said:
It literally says competition amy breed resentment.
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Well yeah, may.
 
The way I see it

[] A competitive hunt. No one will be using arts of course, as it would be unsporting. More opportunity to build bonds, but competition may breed resentment…

This one focuses more on more personal relationships, and will most probably unlock and advance Luo Zhong's SL, maybe (this is a HARD maybe) even Wu Jing's and Alingge's, the trade-off being people around them get jealous of Ling Qi. On the other hand,

[X] A cooperative hunt against a more cunning beast. Increased difficulty means less chance to play the social game, but impressive skills may bring admiration...

This one I would say focuses more on reputation based on front page

yrsillar said:
Organization Reputations

Ling Qi's organization reputations describe how well known and regarded she is by the organization in question. The scale ranges from -6 to 6, with lower numbers being more negative

The exact nature of the organizations feeling toward you may vary but in general follows this scale.

-6: Hated- The organization will bend a great deal of resources toward destroying you in any capacity in which they are able
-5: Despised- The organization will work against you at every turn and invest significant resources in doing so
-4: Greatly Disliked- The organization will oppose you whenever doing so is both possible and matches with their other goals
-3: Disliked- Members will be poorly disposed toward you and the organization may invest in making your life difficult
-2: Mildly Disliked- Members will be mildly biased against you with some individuals being more so. Mild institutional notice
-1: Negative Notice- One or more individuals within the organization have taken a disliking to you and will likely bend their resources toward damaging you.
0: Unnoticed: The organization has no significant awareness of your existence
1: Notice: One or more individuals within the organization have taken a liking toward you and may seek to aid you in minor situations
2: Mildly liked- Members will be positively biased toward you, with some individuals being moreso. Mild institutional notice
3: Liked- Members will be generally well disposed toward you and the organization may actively support you
4: Greatly Liked- The organization will support you whenever doing so is both possible and does not significantly harm their other goals
5: Revered- The organization will side with you in most situations, and will bend significant resources toward supporting you
6: Loved- The organization will almost always side with you, and will staunchly support you against most any foe, almost without regard for cost.

If you become the leader of an organization, there is a different scale which will be introduced at that time.

Argent Sect: Rank 2
-Inner Sect Disciples: -1

Emerald Seas Nobility: Rank -2

Bai Clan: Rank 1

Cai Clan: Rank 1

Gu Clan: Rank 1

Sun Clan: Rank -1


Personal Relationships
Personal relationships use the same scale, but represent a mutual relationship between two individuals. The scale used is similar but but obviously modified for the individual.

Bai Meizhen: Rank 4
Bian Ya: Rank 1
Cai Renxiang: Rank 3
Gan Guangli: Rank 1
Gu Xiulan: Rank 4
Han Jian: Rank 2
Hanyi: Rank 3
Ji Rong: Rank -1
Li Suyin: Rank 4
Liao Zhu: Rank 1
Ling Qingge: Rank 4
Ruan Shen: Rank 1
Sima Jiao & Xin: Rank 1
Sixiang: Rank 2
Shen Hu: Rank 1
Su Ling: Rank 2
Sun Liling: Rank -2
Xuan Shi: Rank 2
Yan Renshu: Rank -3
Zhengui: Rank 4
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Should we go along with cooperation, we aim to become more likable to the group in general rather than going with certain individuals. This in my opinion helps reputation more.

Of course it's not gonna turn that Rank -2 to -1. Our group is composed of Eastern ES nobles, while that ES nobility rank speaks of ES nobles as a whole. I think should we succeed in the cooperation, there's gonna be another subcategory under ES rank added like "Easter nobility" or something like that and will put us in decent terms with them.

Of course, the downside being the lack of SL. There's a chance we might even not unlock Luo Zhong's SL from this. That's just speculation however since for all I know, unlocking SLs could just be pretty dang easy. This is also a social event, meaning we get to talk to people around us. More talking= more world info, and frankly I'm personally interested in what the Daigiya's all about, so I'm fine with either of the options winning
 
[X] A cooperative hunt against a more cunning beast. Increased difficulty means less chance to play the social game, but impressive skills may bring admiration...

What's the ettiquette for inserting tallies?
 
Valmond said:
Are you fucking trolling me?
Yes, may, if we fuck up our social interactions, which we suck at, which is why some of us want to go for the low risk low reward option is less likely to make us enemies.
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No, not really. I just feel that if Ling Qi manages to fuck up the low-risk version, the damage done there would be a hell of a lot worse than if she fucks up in a competitive scene.
There's really not much to gain materially in either case, since without arts, there's not much worth hunting for, and working together, the loot would be split. So putting that aside for now, thinking politically, managing to fuck up a cooperative operation would be hell of a lot worse than fucking up social cues in a competition. While all you do when working with others is that you show that you in fact, can work with others, you can project strength if you win the competition.
If someone were to resent Ling Qi for winning a competition here, they'd hate her anyways.
 
NZPIEFACE said:
If someone were to resent Ling Qi for winning a competition here, they'd hate her anyways.
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If anything, that'd be more likely to cause envy. Resentment'll come if we fail, as it gives more support to the idea that we don't deserve our position.
Though I do agree that those who'd hate us if we win are unlikely to have their opinion of us changed in a single outing.
 
Karnax626 said:
If anything, that'd be more likely to cause envy. Resentment'll come if we fail, as it gives more support to the idea that we don't deserve our position.
Though I do agree that those who'd hate us if we win are unlikely to have their opinion of us changed in a single outing.
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Yeah, the solution to all our problems is to win, and to keep winning.

That sounds kinda wrong on second thought, oh well.
 
NZPIEFACE said:
No, not really. I just feel that if Ling Qi manages to fuck up the low-risk version, the damage done there would be a hell of a lot worse than if she fucks up in a competitive scene.
There's really not much to gain materially in either case, since without arts, there's not much worth hunting for, and working together, the loot would be split. So putting that aside for now, thinking politically, managing to fuck up a cooperative operation would be hell of a lot worse than fucking up social cues in a competition. While all you do when working with others is that you show that you in fact, can work with others, you can project strength if you win the competition.
If someone were to resent Ling Qi for winning a competition here, they'd hate her anyways.
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You're comparing two separate things together here. "Fucking up working together" is akin to "fucking up her own individual hunt as part of the hunting competition." There is also ADDITIONALLY a risk of fucking up social cues during the competition. Now, I don't actually personally think there's any real risk of fucking up working together OR making a total hackjob of our personal part in a hunting competition, but if you DO think there's such a risk, what's appropriate is to compare the total risk to the total risk, not a selective portion of the risk of one to the total risk of the other.
 
NZPIEFACE said:
If someone were to resent Ling Qi for winning a competition here, they'd hate her anyways.
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Not so, it depends on how she wins. This is nothing about what she does, but how she handles the result. Success is not a binary.

Under Competitive, if you actually fail compared to the multiple Green 1s...well, thats serious competency in question for the status of direct Cai retainer. Spin won't save it.
If you get somewhere in the middle of the pack, then the question is how well you can brag to place at the top of the middle(after all they're all hunting stuff lone Greens 1-3s can take without Arts, the differences are very slim), without insulting their skill in the process.
If you get above average, then its down to managing humility and praising the catches of others without lowering your own position. It shows the ability to fit in, and keeping in mind its a social event, you don't want to show up people higher than you on the totem pole too blatantly.
And if you actually win outright(Ling Qi is actually somewhat unlikely to, theres a goddamned Green 6, who might not be taking it seriously), then you can either take the direct play and win some/lose some from the suckups shifting to the winning team while others mark you as a threat to watch out for, or you take the indirect play, and give them the credit for sandbagging for a newcomer(and annoy the Martial Honorable types)

For cooperative its simpler really, unless you just fail at teamfight you'd bond, and if you can show yourself as asset to team...well, the organizer does like pack stuff. You won't be seeing dramatic gains unless you are ungodly good at teamfight though, because the chosen prey is a Big Fish and you can't make all the little shifts of credit and blame to maximize your gains.
Just sincere skill and nothing else.
 
NZPIEFACE said:
No, not really. I just feel that if Ling Qi manages to fuck up the low-risk version, the damage done there would be a hell of a lot worse than if she fucks up in a competitive scene.
There's really not much to gain materially in either case, since without arts, there's not much worth hunting for, and working together, the loot would be split. So putting that aside for now, thinking politically, managing to fuck up a cooperative operation would be hell of a lot worse than fucking up social cues in a competition. While all you do when working with others is that you show that you in fact, can work with others, you can project strength if you win the competition.
If someone were to resent Ling Qi for winning a competition here, they'd hate her anyways.
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The cooperate does not rely on our social skills, which are not good, but more on our combat potential, which is damn lot better.
Also, trying to claim that the cooperative could have worse consequences is pretty much the opposite of what the vote implies.
And the problem is, that they don't know we can work with others, our whole purpose here is to show that we are capable of being worked with, instead of doing our own thing and ignoring our peers like we have done in the past.

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NZPIEFACE said:
You underestimate how petty some people can be.
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So do you.
People will hate us not just for being better than them, but for being placed above them, and for merely existing.
Ours is an uphill battle, even if this is possibly the most favorable battlefield for making social gains.
 
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Valmond said:
The cooperate does not rely on our social skills
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what

Valmond said:
trying to claim that the cooperative could have worse consequences
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why not, if you manage to fuck up being a team player, you'll be looked down upon for being a fuck up and being weak. Instead of just being weak.

Valmond said:
And the problem is, that they don't know we can work with others, our whole purpose here is to show that we are capable of being worked with, instead of doing our own thing and ignoring our peers like we have done in the past.
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Solid point.
 
NZPIEFACE said:
why not
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BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE BLOODY VOTE.
I'm not gonig to go into how humans behave, but you are directly arguing against the vote options given.
We are presented with a high risk/high reward, and low risk/low reward scenarios.
And you seem to be arguing that the low risk/low reward is actually high risk/low reward and the other a low risk/high reward.

If you want to argue that the vote options are gaslighting us, go ahead, but i'm done.
 
Valmond said:
BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE BLOODY VOTE.
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I'm getting the feeling I'm missing something here.
As in, I get the feeling I'm really missing something in regards as to how the whole voting thing works.

I could argue about how the vote doesn't actually imply any high risk/high reward or low risk/low reward situations, but rather that there's an option that gives more opportunities than the other at the cost of social standing (if I were to read into the votes more literally). The outcomes of any determined "failure" are just our own speculations of what may happen, and the "rewards" are still a roll of the die since the wording of the votes only talks about "chances to play the game" or "opportunity to bond".
We're not really guaranteed a high reward for the competitive vote, but if we're going to be taking the votes as definitive outcomes, I'd still choose the competitive one, since "to bond" sounds like the end goal of why anyone voted for the "go with Luo" option anyways, instead of garnering admiration.

Edit:
I really don't get it. Are we supposed to infer the outcomes of the votes and just think that's what's going to happen? Or is the writer given some creative leeway to fuck us over, or does he roll die on how social outcomes turn out?
Like, do we just think of the most probably and lukewarm outcomes and think that's what's going to happen? The vote was worded in a non-definitive fashion, so I assumed that the "may" just meant "the author is either rolling the dice or writing it how he pleases".

Edit 2:
After thinking about it, I find it pretty hilarious. I read somewhere in this thread that someone once called CRX as robot. That's extremely ironic, considering how some of us are voting for Ling Qi is based purely on pragmatism and a desire to reach a certain quota on human relations, rather than considering what someone with her personality would like to do.
We're minmaxing her life more than CRX ever could try to do for her own, really.
 
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NZPIEFACE said:
After thinking about it, I find it pretty hilarious. I read somewhere in this thread that someone once called CRX as robot. That's extremely ironic, considering how some of us are voting for Ling Qi is based purely on pragmatism and a desire to reach a certain quota on human relations, rather than considering what someone with her personality would like to do.
We're minmaxing her life more than CRX ever could try to do for her own, really.
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Yes?

There's literally spreadsheets and everything.

I think you're confusing jokes and memes of endearment for actual scorn.
 
NZPIEFACE said:
I'm getting the feeling I'm missing something here.
As in, I get the feeling I'm really missing something in regards as to how the whole voting thing works.

I could argue about how the vote doesn't actually imply any high risk/high reward or low risk/low reward situations, but rather that there's an option that gives more opportunities than the other at the cost of social standing (if I were to read into the votes more literally). The outcomes of any determined "failure" are just our own speculations of what may happen, and the "rewards" are still a roll of the die since the wording of the votes only talks about "chances to play the game" or "opportunity to bond".
We're not really guaranteed a high reward for the competitive vote, but if we're going to be taking the votes as definitive outcomes, I'd still choose the competitive one, since "to bond" sounds like the end goal of why anyone voted for the "go with Luo" option anyways, instead of garnering admiration.

Edit:
I really don't get it. Are we supposed to infer the outcomes of the votes and just think that's what's going to happen? Or is the writer given some creative leeway to fuck us over, or does he roll die on how social outcomes turn out?
Like, do we just think of the most probably and lukewarm outcomes and think that's what's going to happen? The vote was worded in a non-definitive fashion, so I assumed that the "may" just meant "the author is either rolling the dice or writing it how he pleases".

Edit 2:
After thinking about it, I find it pretty hilarious. I read somewhere in this thread that someone once called CRX as robot. That's extremely ironic, considering how some of us are voting for Ling Qi is based purely on pragmatism and a desire to reach a certain quota on human relations, rather than considering what someone with her personality would like to do.
We're minmaxing her life more than CRX ever could try to do for her own, really.
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I think you are a fairly new player, so it is normal that you do not quite see how yrsillar tends to deal with such votes.
As a general rule you can assume that he offers the options in good faith, and for any 'trap' option, as rare as they are, we tend to get enough information that it is possible to recognise them as such. As such, I would say we are not really playing against the QM, we are playing this game with him.

Our current system does have background rolls, comparative stats and a lot of narrative leeway.
so if you are interested in how yrs determined, if things that 'may happen' actually happen, I guess you could ask him?
 
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naths said:
I think you are a fairly new player, so it is normal that you do not quite see how yrsillar tends to deal with such votes.
As a general rule you can assume that he offers the options in good faith, and for any 'trap' option, as rare as they are, we tend to get enough information that it is possible to recognise them as such. As such, I would say we are not really playing against the QM, we are playing this game with him.

Our current system does have background rolls, comparative stats and a lot of narrative leeway.
so if you are interested in how yrs determined, if things that 'may happen' actually happen, I guess you could ask him?
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Pretty much 100% this.
Mistakes are made exclusively because options provided are either Ling Qi PoV or meta-narrative choice, and its not always clear which, but if Ling Qi knows something you can expect it to reflect in the options.

Based on Ling Qi's knowledge of Speech and training in Emerald Seas noble etiquette, she IS informed enough that her assertion on what each option means is probably correct, with her uncertainty reflected in the options themselves as the conclusion is what she expects, but she isn't naive enough to assume that getting the most impressive prey or being very skilled at teamfight is sure to work.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Camellia on Aug 11, 2019 at 1:03 PM, finished with 182 posts and 85 votes.
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Still think our biggest problem is exposure and even a worst case scenario of bruised egos would have been an overall success in getting Ling Qi out there.

Likewise, I'm still skeptical of Ling Qi's contributions to hunting a cunning beast of realm-relevance impressing anyone. Tracking and beast knowledge is mediocre. If we're not using arts, bow probably doesn't have the punch for the job which means musical doots which means abandoning bow showmanship. Or using the bow and definitely not impressing because of the target. Lose-lose.

If we are using arts, it means abandoning bow showmanship, and having to deal with the fact our group techs are not particularly group-friendly outside of TRF. PLR doesn't actually benefit other people, and it's crap aesthetics for a hunting outing. FVM is a pain with largish groups, though we could probably manage this one, and the mood is kind of a buzz kill despite being thematically appropriate. We don't have much for countering opposed "cunning" from our quarry either.

I'm cautiously pessimistic with this outcome. It seems less likely to showcase our bow skills, it spends less time acquainting Ling Qi with run-of-the-mill nobility, and her support suite, such as it is, has less than usual to offer in a hunt scenario.

Like, her one unambiguously superior capability she has is flight. Which purely comes from her robe. Which purely comes from her position at Cai Renxiang's side. Which people already resent her for.

Edit: plus, important to keep in mind that teamwork, etc in a hunt is a completely different beast than the political ball playing we don't have a rep for. The two don't really intersect. What the cooperative hunt gives an opportunity for is a cooperative context in which being an overachiever is less likely to bruise egos. The actual cooperation aspect isn't a major political benefit.
 
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We're not here to impress people. Sure, if that happens, great.
But that's not the main goal.

We're here to start making overtures towards other emerald seas nobles, to let them know that we are not snubbing them or think them beneath our notice (even if they often are, our bad that).
Making friends is a long term project, which is not going to happen in our first outing.
 
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