Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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From the discord. And the previous updates for this being six, hanyi and zhengui.
Thanks for finding it, just missed it when checking I'll edit my original post to point it out momentarily.

So we're investing 20+ AP into mixing our mortal and spirit family into our Household, for unknown potential gains and risking losing literal months of cultivation.

The other option simply says we can't let our "household" be top priority, but says nothing about ignoring our "Family" so we could expect the ability to vote in the future case-by-case on "Household" votes rather than pre-emptively investing 20+ AP.

Our mortal household isn't going to be meaningfully establishing itself at the base of the Argent Sect's mountain, we can make some initial gains and potential uses out of it but we have specific known goals we need to achieve and 20+ AP is far better spent towards cultivation, the Inner-Sect tournament, and establishing ourselves as a Cultivator and direct Retainer of the Ducal Heir.
 
Off the top of my head, there's:
  1. Unspecified tax benefits for our fief in the future
  2. Complete funding of Zhengui's food intake (which last I tried to calculate could easily come to multiple GSS a month depending on how expensive cores and stuff are)
  3. Cai robe upgrade and high grade domain weapon (the latter referring more to the quality than the effectiveness)
  4. Subsidisation of pills/medicine for cultivation every turn to the tune of (assuming at least 12 AP on cultivation) at least 18 YSS a month
  5. Guaranteed GSS every month, that is confirmed to scale to our progress within the Sect (It started at 1/month at the beginning of the year, and at the start of Turn 4 had gone up to 3/month).
Plus stuff like organising the Death Mirror auction in order to get us the best deal possible.
EDIT: Oh, and access (though possibly temporary) to the Cai Archives for arts.

1. Completely unquantifiable and so far into the future as to be functionally irrelevant
2. Do you have a source for this? Because we seemed to be feeding Zhengui just fine from our regular activities/hunting trips before joining up with Cai.
3. Already mentioned the robe upgrade as nice. The blade, for all it's supposed quality has not been impressing narritively (which @yrsillar has started trying to address). Part of the issue is that we haven't seen other equipment available at all in this thread the way we did in the last one, making it rather difficult to see what the difference in quality actually means.
4 & 5. Given the increases we're seeing in income purely from the sect and sect jobs, if an elder couldn't easily equal that level of monetary contribution with their pocket change then I'll eat my hat.

Death mirror auction. Again, a nice side benefit but I have no comparison on how much of a difference that made to the selling price.

Cai Archive arts. Again, completely unquantifiable how good they'll be and something that hasn't happened yet.

everything karnax said, plus the Singing Mist Blade, the buy-whatever-you-want during the tournament and if we count immaterial benefits then the introduction to high tier nobles and cultivators during the tournament are all benefits LQ got from CRX and it hasnt even been a year since she started

Edit: oh I just noticed that karnax mentioned the domain weapon too
If you think after hanging out with Meizhen and Xiulan all year we weren't meeting quite a lot of those nobles anyway I don't know what to tell you. The one we got mechanical rewards from (i.e. the actual connection we made at the party) was Meizhen's dad anyway. The only other guy we really talked to was from the Xuan, who again would likley have been interested in anyway.

The get whatever from the show was a nice gesture on Renxiang's part I'll admit.

My complaint was about what we've actually seen and how little chance we get to appreciate how good what we've got is alsongside the fact that, the Cai (as a whole i.e. not Renxiang whose income is controlled by Shenhua) are super rich. What is a great deal of money at our level should be peanuts to them.

We don't have the rounded view of the world to appreciate just how much better the resources we've had access to by choosing to be a Cai vassal are superior to what we could have recieved if we chose the other path.

There are plenty of ways for things to improve this (actually seeing or getting more info on our fief, more actual screen time with Renxiang* seeing how she manages and juggles things etc, etc.) but what I've seen so far hasn't exactly impressed me with it's "absolute material superiority."

*Something we want anyway as she's been remarkably absent from her own route so far this thread.
 
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I would also point out, this probably isn't a suicide pact. If we genuinely, honestly need some crunch time, I suspect we'll have the option of doing so.

Very much this.

People, Yrsillar is a fair QM, who does not give trap options to vote on.

People who claim that spending more time with our family, that explicitly includes our Spirits by word of QM, is a "suicide" option are fearmongering, and doing it badly.
 
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He literally said that the QM revealed it on discord
Maybe quote the post where he cites it next time then. The information divide between the forums and discord is toxic and I'm certainly not going to just take any statement someone who uses discord makes as fact.
I think at this point people on both sides are just repeating themselves.

Honestly, I view this vote as less of a 'wrong vs right' choice and more of a 'grow in character or grow in strength' choice. To me, I'd rather grow in character, but by no means does that make growing our strength the wrong choice.

This is a dangerous and interesting world. We'll have lots of chances in the future for Ling Qi to grow her character and her strength.

So maybe people need to take a step back, realise that regardless of what wins its not the end of the world and stem the tides of salt that seem to have started flowing.
We're likely going to end up spending actions on strength regardless due to the Cai route. The opportunity cost I'm concerned about is fewer chances to explore the world and have interesting events. Those, from my view, are a far more compelling source of character growth than playing with kids and going on picnics. I can do family stuff in real life, but I certainly can't go undergo the trial of a millenia dead spirit.
 
As someone who is voting for the other option that is an horrible idea, there is enough salt already without the capability to walk back on previous votes like that. Just imagining the discussions that instead of dying on vote close would keep coming up again at every opportunity makes me shudder.

Seriously dude I know you aren't new to quests how can you possibly think that would be a good idea? It is up there with starting a waifu war by slowly introducing each waifu over several updates each as Worst Ideas QMs Have.

Because situations aren't static basically?

Like, I don't see crunch time as being a thing until the last quarter of our time anyway, especially as these AP here aren't being wasted since it's going to involve raising our Bond with our other spirit allies, which is what leads to them picking up new tricks and improved stats, plus any other unknowable benefits that might be lying around too (Such as Insight development for instance, or figuring out what's going on with that damn comb)
 
People are again misrepresenting the family option.

It's not 22 AP into one SL.

its 22 AP spread out across at least 5 SL.

Which is a fairly reasonable amount of AP particularly as three of those SL's are our spirit beasts and directly combat relevant.
 
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As someone who is voting for the other option that is an horrible idea, there is enough salt already without the capability to walk back on previous votes like that. Just imagining the discussions that instead of dying on vote close would keep coming up again at every opportunity and every time someone 'lost' a vote makes me shudder.

Seriously dude I know you aren't new to quests how can you possibly think that would be a good idea? It is up there with starting a waifu war by slowly introducing each waifu over several updates each as Worst Ideas QMs Have.

...this is not?

This is an assumption, one I share, that were we to fall behind really badly, Ling Qi, like any human being, could cut down on visiting her family for a couple of months to concentrate on cultivating?

This is known thing not only in the setting, it already happened in the quest.
 
As someone who is voting for the other option that is an horrible idea, there is enough salt already without the capability to walk back on previous votes like that. Just imagining the discussions that instead of dying on vote close would keep coming up again at every opportunity and every time someone 'lost' a vote makes me shudder.

Seriously dude I know you aren't new to quests how can you possibly think that would be a good idea? It is up there with starting a waifu war by slowly introducing each waifu over several updates each as Worst Ideas QMs Have.
It is obviously not going to come up "at every opportunity". It could very well come up in the 2-3 months leading to the tournoument, or to the end-of-second-year deadline.

Of course, some might argue that by then it would be too late...
 
Very much this.

People, Yrsillar is a fair QM, who does not give trap options to vote on.

People who claim that spending more time with our family, that explicitly includes our Spirits by word of QM, is a "suicide" option are fearmongering, and doing it badly.

This is a fair point, but it minimizes to consequences of the family option to the point where I'm not sure there are rational reasons to not choose it. I'm not comfortable with using OOC knowledge as the primary reason behind my vote either.
 
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This is a fair point, but it minimizes to consequences of the family option to the point where I'm not sure there are rational reasons to not choose it. I'm not comfortable with using OOC knowledge as the primary reason behind my vote either.

Since we are living in an OOC world, we cannot avoid OOC knowledge.

And when I see people sowing panic fully knowing that Yrsillar does not offer trap or suicide choices.

I get annoyed something fierce, because it does feel dishonest to me.
 
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So, let's talk about Zhengui!

First thing to note is the very first tech:
Eternal Roots: C
The endless vitality of the forest fills Zhengui, spreading his senses throughout his surroundings, as well as sealing wounds, restoring qi and repairing broken and chipped shell and scales. While active, Zhengui's speed is reduced by one rank, but damage to his armor recovers at a rapid rate. Lasts a long time. Once during this duration Zhengui may attempt to dispel a negative effect from himself or an ally.
This is a solid core defensive tech. It does a total of four constant things (increasing perception, regeneration, restoring qi, and repairing armor) while also allowing him to try and dispel a negative effect on him or an ally. He'll be a slow boy when using it, but it does so many beneficial things for him I can't imagine him not using it in every single fight. It will be his key defensive tech.

Here are the next techs that I want to talk about.
Woodland Grasp: C
A technique allowing Zhengui to create and manipulate roots beneath the ground to trap his enemies. This technique affects all targets within close range of Zhengui. The roots immobilize their target with strength equal to Zhengui's own..

Spearing Roots: C
Damage: E
Building upon Woodland Grasp, Zhengui hardens and sharpens the roots he manipulates with potent wood qi, using them to assault instead of entrap. The spearing roots strike to impale rather than entangle, but grip and slow the enemies limbs nonetheless if they strike true.
These haven't substantively changed from Yellow Zhengui, but there are a couple of differences. The first is that Woodland Grasp affects all targets close to Zhengui, which makes it an interesting AoE CC option. The roots can only immobilize opponents who have C ranked strength or lower, but that should still be a good chunk of people given how to reach B rank requires specialization at our current level.

Spearing Roots is similar but does damage and slow enemies who are struck. Not sure if it is still AoE (since it is based off of Woodland Grasp) or if it still only affects people with strength C or lower. Either way, some key tools in Zhengui's arsenal for trapping our opponents.

One of the newest techs, and the one I'm most excited about is:
Roiling Forest Regrowth: B
A technique arising from Zhengui's frustration at foes avoiding him to strike at Ling Qi. Zhengui throws a huge quantity of Qi into the earth beneath his feet, until grasping twining roots are erupting from every inch of earth within Close Range. These roots twine together to form walls, grab at limbs and otherwise make themselves impossible to ignore. Enemies striking at targets other than Zhengui have their speed, combat perception, Physical Hit and Penetration penalized. Effects with multiple targets are not penalized if they include at least half of the affected area in their range. While these roots can be destroyed so long as the technique is active they regrow too quickly for this to be effective. This technique lasts a short time.
They just... grow up so fast. This technique might have developed from Zhengui's fights with Ji Rong and Sun Liling where they did their best to ignore Zhengui in favor of striking us down as quickly as possible. While I'm not entirely sure where this art came from, the effects of the art seem to be a thing to behold.

He creates an environment where he forces opponents to target him or have critical aspects of the opponent's ability to fight penalized. We have speed, combat perception, physical hit and penetration, most of which (basically everything except speed) are fairly critical for a physically offensive inclined opponent. While not a true taunt, it is still a fantastic way for Zhengui to make people target him as not trying to force Zhengui off the field is willingly fighting in a field that one cannot fight in effectively.

This tech is not all sunshine and rainbows, however. It only lasts a short time and is a B ranked tech with appropriate qi costs. While Zhengui does have B ranked qi and some nice qi regeneration, he won't be able to spam this technique all the time (yet). I'm hopeful that this tech will graduate to a Long duration as Zhengui advances through the ranks.

However, even though this is a short duration, it still has amazing synergies with Ling Qi's own skills. It is another thing which reduces an opponent's perception, which means that we are one step closer to having our perception gates affect peer opponents. Soon enough we will hit a critical mass of perception gates (PLR and FVM) and perception reducing techniques (FVM, PLR, Roiling Forest Regrowth, and Ashfall).

So, I am excited to see what this technique can do in a battle and how our perception gates and Hanyi will benefit from Zhengui's ability to dominate and manipulate the battlefield.

Next up we move to the Blazing Blood techniques that I want to talk about:
Volcanic Stone Shell: C
Response
Zhengui infuses his shell with withering heat and stony resilience, burning bright with a volcanic blaze. Anywho strike at Zhengui in melee suffer painful burns for their effort. This effect lasts a long time.

Ashfall: C
Zhengui expels ash from both of his mouths, filling the sky with falling gray dust. The ash cloud extends out to Very Close range around him and persists for a Long time in that space. While Zhengui, Ling Qi and her other spirits are immune to the effects, others within the ash suffer unavoidable burns while within the ash. The particulates make it difficult for them to see as well, hanging thickly in the air. Zhengui may use this art multiple times to expand its area. Six stacks may be active at a time.
So the first tech is the Volcanic Stone Shell which basically is a counter with additional armor tech. Which means that with RGR forcing people to deal with Zhengui, Volcanic Stone Shell will punish people for trying to deal with Zhengui. Very useful, very powerful, and likely will be causing problems and damage to our opponents.

Ashfall has upgraded significantly with Zhengui's ascension to Green. Now Ling Qi's other spirits are immune to its persistent unavoidable burns and choking hanging clouds of ash which make it hard to see through. As mentioned above, this is another technique which serves to help our perception gate affects as well as creating a time limit for the opponent to deal with us before they succumb to the unavoidable burns. While it is only very close range, Zhengui can spend some more effort to increase its radius.

The major change to this, however, is that Ling Qi's other spirits aren't affected, which means that Hanyi will be perfectly fine standing atop Zhengui and singing her songs about the end and loneliness.

Last, but certainly not least, is the next new tech:
Vengeful Serpent's Fangs: D
When an enemy strikes at one of Zhengui's allies within Near range, they open themselves to a counterstrike. Zhengui receives a large bonus to hit for this attack, and deals damage via his Zhen Bite attack, with an additional E rank poison which repeats for a short time thereafter.
This makes the Hanyi strategy all the sweeter. Anyone who does try to attack Hanyi, or us I suppose, within range will be hit by a counter when Zhengui uses this technique. His physical hit is already B, and this will give a large bonus to the hit. Zhen's bite is C, and then there is another E rank poison. While heavily armored individuals might be fine, we have our own way to erode said armor (Dissonance from FVM).

Furthermore, Zhengui is a rank 4 in our social relationships, which means that he procs our domain. Which gives him a rank up in Spiritual avoid, armor and combat perception. While the spiritual armor can't proc because his is higher than ours, and his spiritual avoid is so low that it is difficult to understand where a rank up will be relevant, it does boost his combat perception to rank C from rank D. Which is a significant boost.

The way I see it is that Zhengui's main problem will be debuffs and the like. He has one dispell technique at C rank which probably won't work because of his incredibly weak intelligence. While he has the ability Mind's Apart which might help mitigate this, it is something that he will still struggle against. It might be beneficial to replace Zhengui's current equipment (which seems fairly weak and ineffecutal now) with something that Han Jian had to help dispell negative effects on himself.

With all of that said, I am extremely pleased with Zhengui's stats (A25 armor!) and techniques. But most importantly, I'm happy to have the cheery, excitable, and lovable Zhengui back in the story. It's been a long while, but it's good to have him back.
 
Thanks for finding it, just missed it when checking I'll edit my original post to point it out momentarily.

So we're investing 20+ AP into mixing our mortal and spirit family into our Household, for unknown potential gains and risking losing literal months of cultivation.

The other option simply says we can't let our "household" be top priority, but says nothing about ignoring our "Family" so we could expect the ability to vote in the future case-by-case on "Household" votes rather than pre-emptively investing 20+ AP.

Our mortal household isn't going to be meaningfully establishing itself at the base of the Argent Sect's mountain, we can make some initial gains and potential uses out of it but we have specific known goals we need to achieve and 20+ AP is far better spent towards cultivation, the Inner-Sect tournament, and establishing ourselves as a Cultivator and direct Retainer of the Ducal Heir.

Voting against the option to train our spirits to vote for the option to train our spirit beast is a very weird take to me.

And yes it's the option to train our spirit beasts, compare it to zhengui's own :

[] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui

For power level, how is spending one month to get hanyi up to snuff for you ? Like, just getting her hit to A rank, and teaching her FSS will make her a very, very strong part of our team. And for that it require spending AP on her. It require voting for our familly.
 
It's always "later later later", we'll always have time "later" in some vague future. You know what that reminds me of? The stereotypical career-oriented parent character that misses out on important moments in their child's life (like birthdays or promises to go fishing or help them with homework or what have you)

This would be a valid point if it did not grossly inverse the roles that are at play here. Ling Qi is a 15 year old girl who is afforded the opportunity to live, grow, fight and explore to her hearts content on a fantastical mountain range for a limited amount of time. Ling Quingge is a grown adult woman who, as far as we know, has no debilitating mental affliction. She doesnt need Ling Qi to 'help her with her homework' and I merely pointed out that it would be strange and not quite in character for Ling Qingge to demand or even expect her daughter to forego these opportunities.

Furthermore, I might add, that the 'vague future' you fear being so elusive, is directly linked to CRX entering into the 'fief and vassal managment'-section of her heiress aptitude program. It has been strongly hinted at being the next phase after the sect phase especially by CRX herself. I would be very suprised if we don't have Ling Clan estates, allowing us to live and spent more time with our family, in as little as three to five years.

So no we aren't balancing work and family, we're ignoring them for working overtime like the stereotypical salarayman obsessed with success and if things keep going like this it'll be part of our characterisation.

As I said it earlier, I see it more as a student spending more time studying in order to do good on their exams. Currently ressources (like the argent vent) and other factors necessitate that our family and us live in seperate locales, this will very likely not always be so. Additionally with Ling Quingge being an immortal now and Ling Biyu very likely having the potential of being a cultivator will make our schedule less and less of an issue.

We won't have time later because people keep voting to pass up on family SL options because they "aren't as important" as our other ones and I don't expect that to change much in the future given we have people REEEEEing over "sentimentality" and how despite this being like the only actual time we ever actually picked their SL option, after being automatically forced to due to the Zeqing arc, they get "plenty" of focus.

To be honest I think you might be projecting a bit here. I honestly can't remember a single time where when we were given the option to help our family, we did not spent action points or ressources on them. We also never hesitated to draw on our big ressources or benefactors, like when we asked CRX when we needed legal support. We have chosen to take hits to our face by employing women with difficult CVs and in the last quest also spent minors and money doing our best to support our family and finally move them closer to us. What we do do is prioritze. Issues that are time critical or could have permanent negative effects (like hanyi being consumed, sixiang losing her body etc.) will be prioritized over less time critical ones with less damaging outcomes.

Also, sometimes things just stop being a focus in the story without there actually being a change, especially a negative change accuring in the characters lives. A good example for this would be our relationship with the grinning moon. We had to have several mini appeasements in the last story, i.e. her explicitly telling us to prank more people or Jiao's paint bomb escapades, in order to regain her favor after having become a 'boring girl only focused on cultivation'. Since issues like this have not crept up again but we haven't really changed our cultivtion-focused approach we must assume that Ling Qi performs enough acts offscreen, that meet her first patrons demands, that she has not dropped in her standing.

Just because we don't have three paragraphs of family time in every update does not mean that the Lings are not happy.

We literally got a powerup due to character development and you want to ignore further opportunities just to do more cultivating? When Green requires a bunch of character-development insights to complete?

What I want is to not be locked in a choice and reduce the number of options for the future. What I want is to spent some of the points on our family, when the need or an opportunity arises, but I also want the opportunity to explore with the moon map, to help out our other friends, like meizhen or lanlan or even do some other social links. I want a safety net for crunchtime and some buffer for when we get locked down with mandatory events. I might also point out that nearly all our discoveries (including self-discovery) and power-ups stem from a combination of social interactions with our diverse circle of friends and our own explorations.

You are talking about the same qingge ? Because quingge chose the exact opposite, prefering to follow her Way than what was gonna further her power, when she chose to refuse to be a bed warmer. She is gonna tell us to do what we wish.

While I highly doubt that Ling Quingge as a newly born red soul immortal has even a concept of Way, much less following one, I nevertheless understand why I could be misunderstood with my post being as unclear as it is. While wrangling my autocorrect to stop it from transforming every Ling Qi into a 'linki' (which isnt even a word in my language) or the more common 'link' i seem to have forgotten to re-add the Qi after fixing my mistake. My post should read:

I believe, and I believe this is a point that ling quingge would vehemently agree to if given the opportunity to speak, is that ling Qi deserves time and the opportunity to thrive and grow, focusing on herself, her studies, her peers and her future, without compromise or there being an apology necessary.
 
Thinking about it more, I'm not sure if the idea that yrsillar "does not offer trap choices" is entirely accurate. There were trap choices in the King of the Forest arc, although they only resulted in relatively minor consequences.

More importantly, events that could have had drastic consequences were decided by simple dice rolls in the previous thread. If we were unlucky, Zhengui could have been poisoned and we could have easily lost Xiulan permanently. I'm not sure if relying on yrsillar to be nice is a good idea.
 
So for everyone all up in arms for this I 100% expect you to argue every turn to spend another AP on our friends too because that is literally the same logic there and it would be arguing in bad faith to say otherwise. Though it will be a great way to tell who actually cares and who is just trying to 'win' so there is that silver lining at least.

That's not the issue though. It's not spending time on family/social/whatever is bad it's that this locks that AP from being spent on anything else. If we wanted to spend extra time with family we could always allocate the AP when we want.

And I'm sure if the option was 1 AP just for next month people would be all over it. The issue isn't the AP at any particular time point but instead the AP expenditure at all time points.
 
While I've got no intention of voting or getting embroiled in debate, I do want to point something out. To my interpretation, at least, saying that we have 1 less AP every turn (Or -22 total or -x before the tournament or whatever) is patently false. It's not being lost, it's being dedicated to a specific (group of) SL(s). This isn't directed at anyone in particular, by the by, but I feel that some of the arguments are close enough to it that it's irritating me.
Whether that's worth it is, of course, up for debate and personal preference.
 
Thinking about it more, I'm not sure if the idea that yrsillar "does not offer trap choices" is entirely accurate. There were trap choices in the King of the Forest arc, although they only resulted in relatively minor consequences.

More importantly, events that could have had drastic consequences were decided by simple dice rolls in the previous thread. If we were unlucky, Zhengui could have been poisoned and we could have easily lost Xiulan permanently. I'm not sure if relying on yrsillar to be nice is a good idea.

No?
We did pick basically all the worst choices in the forest, got something out of it, as well as self reflection.

And do you really think one bad dice roll would have meant death?

A setback, looking for medicine, etc. but not death.

This is at least a sixth yrsillar quest I participate in.

Yrsillar never did offer trap choices so far.
 
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You're entire vote is based on AP costs, that's about as OOC as things get.

Except it's not? Ling Qi knows just as well as us that she needs to focus on cultivation in order to achieve the goals set out for her. FVM's domain insight fully supports the status quo as well. In the post where I changed my vote, my reasoning was focused entirely on IC justification and narrative consequences, not the value of AP.
 
Quite honestly, the best things we have came from going out of our way to do activities off the beaten path in the Sect, with some help from Xin/the Moon.
  • Zhengui: Came from a Sect trial with Meizhen, our friend
  • Sixiang: Definitively Moon
  • Hanyi: Probably manipulated into helping her by Xin
  • FVM: Given to us by Xin/Jiao, possibly to link us to Zeqing later
  • Sable pills: Xin/Jiao, huge leg up in Qi
  • SCS: Xin/Jiao, is now part of our dodge skill too
  • FSS: Zeqing and therefore probably also Xin
  • Umbral Shard that we used for our weapon: Moon Mission
  • Entropic Mirror that made us rich: Moon Mission
  • Robe: Cai
  • TRF: I don't remember
  • White Room: Cai, but we would've been able to benefit without joining her
Actually, if you think about it, why are we even with Cai? The moon gives us so much more. If we pass Momma Cai's test, we'll get some goodies, sure. But if we fail? We're not really going to suffer much, CRX is. Why are we making passing Cai Shenhua's test the focus of the quest? Do we even like Cai Shenhua? Does CRX even see us as more than a particularly capable vassal? Is she even capable of going above SL 2? The Cai's are basically direct references to the main villain of Kill La Kill, why are we so obsessed with serving under them anyways?
 
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