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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Karthak Urzak said:
Today's immorality is normal world? What in Russ's name are you talking about?
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They are one of those people who, as one of their points note, doesn't think sex before marriage is moral. They are asserting that this particular immoral (by their standards) activity is normal now IRL in this modern age, but would not be in the setting and presumably should not be in setting or IRL.
 
Karthak Urzak said:
Today's immorality is normal world? What in Russ's name are you talking about?
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Byrlow is probably from one of the cultures that considers sex outside of marriage bad, and is assuming that the Destiny-cycle-verse follows their own moral system or something close to it rather than modern societal attitudes (EDIT: or a unique value system that is native to the world in question). It's a fairly standard "I believe X so obviously people from fictional worlds also believe X" kind of assumption, happens all the time. I've done it myself in the past.
 
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Ling Qi probably won't do flings. By dint of this being a quest on SV, her backstory, character and Yrsillar being uninterested in that sort of thing.

Though in universe I'm pretty sure it was not unheard of for unarmed sect characters sneaking out at night to meet with their sweethearts.

I wonder if the Elder's actually put their foot down on that or if they shrugged like with virtually everything else and let the consequences serve as a learning experience?

Admittedly the idea of Jiao the equivalent of the nations ex-FBI director being now relegated to breaking up hanky panky sessions between disciples explains a lot about his attitude.
 
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query said:
Ling Qi probably won't do flings. By dint of this being a quest on SV, her backstory, character and Yrsillar being uninterested in that sort of thing.

Though in universe I'm pretty sure it was not unheard of for unarmed sect characters sneaking out at night to meet with their sweethearts.

I wonder if the Elder's actually put their foot down on that or if they shrugged like with virtually everything else and let the consequences serve as a learning experience?

Admittedly the idea of Jiao the equivalent of the nations ex-FBI director being now relegated to breaking up hanky panky sessions between disciples explains a lot about his attitude.
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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny) Original - Users' Choice!

First Quest, Forge of Destiny, here Ling Qi stood at the edge of the grass grown cliff and...
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No, you fool, not when it is a sign that the Bao intend to sell us out again! Everyone knows they were planning to align with the peaks before her Grace shamed them into solidarity and…
…I'm quite sure the Bai girl is merely engaging in a bit of indiscretion.
What?
What?
Do you have eyes? Or perhaps… no, neither of you have ever courted have you. Fully arranged by your parents. No informal meetings with your promised?
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Doesn't seem to be anything that out of the ordinary, if you keep it on the downlow.
 
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ImperatorV said:
Byrlow is probably from one of the cultures that considers sex outside of marriage bad,
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Okay, I know SV can be SV, but ... that's all cultures. There are differences in the economics, how social class applies, what courting looks like, how bad 'bad' is, and whose job (if any) it is to punish, and what divorce looks like, but ... marriage as a cultural ideal and vessel for sexual behavior is pretty universal. The Musuo are sometimes cited as a counterexample but that's really weak under scrutiny. Everything else I've seen is counterculture, which is by definition not mainstream culture.

In particular, "do it on the downlow" is just a form of "bad, but not aggressively punished".
 
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o11c said:
Okay, I know SV can be SV, but ... that's all cultures.
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No it isn't? The idea of marriage existing is pretty universal, but attitudes towards sex outside it vary wildly by time, place, and culture. You were generally expected to be having sex with people you weren't married to as a man in ancient Greece for example (specifically, other men). And that's literally just one example off the top of my head.

Sexual mores are hugely variable between different times and places.
 
Brylowman said:
You all just proving my point. You don't see it as immoral, because people have changed what they accept. This is not the world Ling Qi lives in.
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Okay but your phrasing also makes it incredibly transparent that you have Certain Biases informing your read of what Ling Qi's world should* look like.

*double meaning very much intended
 
In other topics, I hope one of the reparations for Xia Anxi is access to the observatory, that the Meng would've barred him from before. Would love to see him geeking out with Wu.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
You were generally expected to be having sex with people you weren't married to as a man in ancient Greece
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Putting aside all the historical conditions that need to be applied to that statement ...

It very much wasn't a "fling", which is the main point here. There's probably more ceremony and expectations involved than concubinage, which for this discussion is clearly just a variety of marriage by a different name and with different economic expectations.

The weirdest thing is how "we must support gay marriage as a norm" (formerly countercultural in our society) and "we must get rid of marriage as a norm" (still countercultural) are viewed as somehow related aspects instead of conflicting.
 
o11c said:
Putting aside all the historical conditions that need to be applied to that statement ...

It very much wasn't a "fling", which is the main point here. There's probably more ceremony and expectations involved than concubinage, which for this discussion is clearly just a variety of marriage by a different name and with different economic expectations.

The weirdest thing is how "we must support gay marriage as a norm" (formerly countercultural in our society) and "we must get rid of marriage as a norm" (still countercultural) are viewed as somehow related aspects instead of conflicting.
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This is quite evidently because you don't understand what you're arguing about. If I believe that people should have the right to, say, buy Apple products, and I also believe that nobody should be ostracized or treated as a terrible person for NOT buying Apple products, the two do not conflict.

Marriage for some, tiny American flags for others. :V
 
It's fine to be against flings for the protagonist character (or to be for them), regardless of how serious were the homoexual relations in ancient greece and how many expectations ere involved in them. :V
 
o11c said:
Putting aside all the historical conditions that need to be applied to that statement ...

It very much wasn't a "fling", which is the main point here. There's probably more ceremony and expectations involved than concubinage, which for this discussion is clearly just a variety of marriage by a different name and with different economic expectations.
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Uh...many such relationships were expected to be of quite limited duration, specifically those between an older man and an adolescent (which was quite normal). If you're gonna count any relationship, even those that are expected to last only a few years as marriage, well, then I think we're kind of arguing at cross purposes because your definition of marriage is so broad as to be deeply at odds with those of almost anyone else.

o11c said:
The weirdest thing is how "we must support gay marriage as a norm" (formerly countercultural in our society) and "we must get rid of marriage as a norm" (still countercultural) are viewed as somehow related aspects instead of conflicting.
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As The Laurent notes these are not actually in conflict. Wanting a society where anyone who wants to can get married to the person they wish but nobody is pressured to do so is a pretty reasonable and consistent position.
 
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Brylowman said:
She's not old enough yet. Stop bringing the subject up until she is an adult.

Once she is old enough, Ling Qi should not have "flings".

1. She does not live in today's immorality is normal world. (It's still just as bad as ever, just accepted.)
2. It would destroy her way. She has very deep relationships, and involving intimacy with someone will bind them to her forever.
3. Have you not been reading this story? She detests the Zheng for having "flings" and wants a true family. One she knows will involve a husband and is coming to terms with what that means. She doesn't desire sex, nor should she until she is married and ready for children.
4. Let her have as many friends who are male as she wants, and then choose to marry the one who she's ready to spend the rest of her life with.
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With cultivation everything is use it or lose it. If Ling gets to the 4th realm without ever including that basic part of the human experience into her way then it might just not be part of her set way.
 
fictionfan said:
With cultivation everything is use it or lose it. If Ling gets to the 4th realm without ever including that basic part of the human experience into her way then it might just not be part of her set way.
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I'm going to put on the doylist cap instead of the watsonian one and hazard a guess that we're not going to just bumble into that happening without extreme signposting and probably explicit warnings from Yrs. It's very obvious that some portion of the thread would like to see her get into a relationship with someone, and Yrs isn't really a "gotcha!" QM.
 
adaer said:
I'm going to put on the doylist cap instead of the watsonian one and hazard a guess that we're not going to just bumble into that happening without extreme signposting and probably explicit warnings from Yrs. It's very obvious that some portion of the thread would like to see her get into a relationship with someone, and Yrs isn't really a "gotcha!" QM.
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How without breaking forum rules? We currently seem to be set up for breakthrough to 4th realm before we turn 18 or very shortly after.
 
fictionfan said:
With cultivation everything is use it or lose it. If Ling gets to the 4th realm without ever including that basic part of the human experience into her way then it might just not be part of her set way.
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adaer said:
I'm going to put on the doylist cap instead of the watsonian one and hazard a guess that we're not going to just bumble into that happening without extreme signposting and probably explicit warnings from Yrs. It's very obvious that some portion of the thread would like to see her get into a relationship with someone, and Yrs isn't really a "gotcha!" QM.
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Even from a Watsonian perspective, it seems more like each Realm involves specific cutting away of things rather than picking those to keep per se. Like, it's not 'use it or lose it' it's 'does your Way force you to discard this?' and the answer to the latter becomes 'Yes' more and more often as you rise in Realm and your Way narrows...but Ling Qi's Way if family and community based and she has recently overcome a lot of her trauma around romance and intimacy...if she hadn't, severing them was likely and called out as such, but since she's overcome that, it's very unlikely she'll snip away something so foundational to so many interpersonal relationships unintentionally.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Even from a Watsonian perspective, it seems more like each Realm involves specific cutting away of things rather than picking those to keep per se. Like, it's not 'use it or lose it' it's 'does your Way force you to discard this?' and the answer to the latter becomes 'Yes' more and more often as you rise in Realm and your Way narrows...but Ling Qi's Way if family and community based and she has recently overcome a lot of her trauma around romance and intimacy...if she hadn't, severing them was likely and called out as such, but since she's overcome that, it's very unlikely she'll snip away something so foundational to so many interpersonal relationships unintentionally.
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I think, Ling Qi will be a Living Ancestor because cultivating for years and years non-stop sounds like something against her Way. Months sure, but not years. I think that she probably will see, know and spoil (in not evil/dangerous way) all her direct descendants until 6 generation down.
 
Profilozof said:
I think, Ling Qi will be a Living Ancestor because cultivating for years and years non-stop sounds like something against her Way. Months sure, but not years. I think that she probably will see, know and spoil (in not evil/dangerous way) all her direct descendants until 6 generation down.
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She'll definitely be an active Sovereign like Shao or Shenhua yeah. Constantly around her family unless she's on an adventure until she ascends.
 
Karthak Urzak said:
Yrs comment from the discord on the Meng saboteur plan:

They dragged senile dying gramps out of hospice care so they could use him as a tool for their nefarious purposes.
Only to discover too late that once you've got a Sovereign going they won't stop and THERE'S NO GETTING OFF THIS TRAIN BEFORE THE FINISH LINE. CHOO-CHOO, MOTHERFUCKERS!
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Also, I know we're long past this, but I wonder what sorts of measures are in place to keep stuff similar to this happening. I don't mean an attempted coup by a senile Elder Sovereign, that has to be reasonably rare, but the exploitation of the powerful but fading elderly, whether political or personal or whatever else...

Of course, it's not as if that isn't a problem in real life, see all the scammers who specifically target seniors.
 
Profilozof said:
I think, Ling Qi will be a Living Ancestor because cultivating for years and years non-stop sounds like something against her Way. Months sure, but not years. I think that she probably will see, know and spoil (in not evil/dangerous way) all her direct descendants until 6 generation down.
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I'm not so sure. It's months now because you can get in a good cultivation session in a few months. It was hours near the beginning of the quest. When an average cultivator of her level is doing years long sessions, she may well do the same.
 
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