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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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This is a tough vote. I want both!! In fact, I'll probably vote for both. But I think option 2 is the better option objectively.

  • We've learned a lot about the White Sky's history culture, but not enough about their governments and institutions.
  • This arc has been centered on tangible benefits and each stakeholder's goals for the summit. Learning about what the WS wants fits that.
  • The summit itself is a cultural exchange with a nonaggression agreement tacked on. We'll learn more about their culture later.
  • We'll need something of note to give back to CRX and other stakeholders in this, like the counts. Though cultural flashpoints count as something of note, people might not follow them because "duh barbarians duh"
[ ] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)

[ ] Seek out information on history and culture to better understand the forces at play here. (better understanding of the factions within the White Sky their disposition, and potential cultural flashpoints)

Edit: Vote option changed thus analysis changed
 
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[ ] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
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ActionKermit said:
Cute. Horns. It's the only way to go
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How about both cute and magnificent? Magnicute? Cutificent?
Anyway, so long as they're rad enough to leave the Jin prick flabbergasted I'll be content.

[ ] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[] Seek out information on history and culture to better understand the forces at play here. (better understanding of the factions within the White Sky and their disposition)

[X] Seek out information on history and culture to better understand the forces at play here. (better understanding of the factions within the White Sky their disposition, and potential cultural flashpoints)

Historyyyy
 
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[ ] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)

Yeah I think the issues inside their confederations are something we can leave to them for now, this is a higher priority.
 
[] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)

The whole point of this summit is to defuse potential conflict, so this is the obvious one.
 
[X] Seek out information on history and culture to better understand the forces at play here. (better understanding of the factions within the White Sky and their disposition)
 
yrsillar said:
Khadne clapped her hands. "That will do, Emissary Ling Qi. But let me first complete our introductions here. Here with me, Emissary Rostam and Inzhu, and Emissary Dzintara represent our connections with the other confederations of our nation, in the west, in the east, the Seared Lands Confederation-"
Here Rostam nodded, and Inzhu inclined her head.

"-And the Tangled Pines Confederation in the west."
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Seared Lands. East.

So who's gonna tell them about the whole Twilight King thing?

Oh dear.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I mean, they have tyrants and other unpleasant people in their own past, they'll hardly be surprised that the Empire does as well.
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None of their mean people ended up catastrophically terraforming a province remotely from over the entire Wall as pure collateral damage... probably.

I mean, I doubt they're as bad as Golden Fields, but finding out the negative environmental effects you've been dealing with for most if not all of your history was in fact not simple geographical bad luck but the consequences of another nations civil war that you had absolutely nothing to do with is probably not a pleasant revelation.

Well, hopefully it was a frozen wasteland before that anyway so it hasn't actually made things worse when thinking logically, just shifted the badness, which would hopefully just reduce this down to just awkward. Fingers crossed we'll find out more context on the state and history of the Seared Lands soon.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I mean, they have tyrants and other unpleasant people in their own past, they'll hardly be surprised that the Empire does as well.
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I think it's less "having tyrants and unpleasant people" and more "your tyrant and unpleasant people were so bad that they caused an event that irreparably scared the world, so much so that a whole confederation is named after the effects".

Don't forget this also ties into the "Our unpleasant people are so bad that the effects of their fight is what led to the Iron King's reign and the stigma against men".

Also, this is unrelated, but I think Zheng Fu, as a Zheng, may be able to help us understand rites of guests, assuming the White Sky's guest rites are similar. LQ already knows a bit, based on Sea of Dreams, and she's learned more from Xuan Shi, but it's always good to have more info about these things
 
Ok, about Jin first.

I like the setup we have with him now. We'll still deliver our plans to him and the MoI through him, we'll listen to their feedbacks, discuss them with him and accommodate them when possible. The difference is that with this option we can have private time to meet our allies and prepare a cohesive plan to present to Jin, instead of wasting time probing him for information, coordinating with our allies to be on guard against him and defusing any conflict he may intentionally or not bring forth.
We haven't given up on convincing him, we still want to convince as many people as possible. But there is a limit to what we can get with rethoric. We need material, tangible gains to support our posture. Once we have that bedrock, we can make a push to reach out to the most reticent and sceptical factions and people, including Jin.
To do that we need to be able to dedicate most of our effort to form an action plan for the summit and prepare a favourable terrain. After the summit is successful, we can invate Jin (and thus MoI) into the debate table about how to manage further contact with the White Sky, thus assuaging their fears and apprehension.
And it's not like we won't interact with Jin at a personal level either. Both of us are going to be involved in the worker and military cooperation Action. That's a good chance to see if he is collaborative and amenable to a change of mind or if he has some hidden agenda (from the MoI or his clan).

About the vote. For me is clearly this option
[ ] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)

I would be glad to start the cultural exchange part of the summit. But, as I said, we need to solve the more practical matters first. We already know what many of factions seek, or at least would like to get out of, this summit. Renxiang and GG will tell us the rest later.
So know we need to know what the other side wants so we can see any clashings demands beforehand and prepare for them. To decide where we should bend, and in exchange of what, and where we should stand firm. Once we have assured everyone will benefit and be satisfied with the agreement, we can start interacting with the White Sky on a more profound level while building up trade and cooperative relationships.
Mutual respect and understanding are easier to develop in Abundance.
 
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[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
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[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
 
Going to put forth a dissenting opinion here, though I'm ultimately okay with either option.

Option 2 is best for making sure the Summit doesn't end poorly, but I believe Option 1 is more in line with pushing for a truly successful result. If we want to have the best odds of walking away from this Summit legitimately happy with the foundation we've built, LQ should focus on her role as a cultural ambassador, imo.

The Emerald Seas has others at this Summit who can handle material things, governments, and institutions, but Ling Qi is placed to be the best at truly understanding the history and culture of the White Sky. I'd like to trust CRX particularly with figuring out the institutional part of things. Either way we're going to be bringing this info back to our team, obviously, but I think it's a matter of what the different members of our party are individually focusing on.

EDIT: Also going to point out something that's been bothering me, which is that either option should, intuitively, prevent "flashpoints of conflict", just different types. For example, the hospitality issue that came up in this very chapter is a cultural issue that Ling Qi is managing.

[ ] Seek out information on history and culture to better understand the forces at play here. (better understanding of the factions within the White Sky and their disposition)

Changing to the re-worded vote.

[X] Seek out information on history and culture to better understand the forces at play here. (better understanding of the factions within the White Sky their disposition, and potential cultural flashpoints)
 
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[X] Seek out information on material things, structures of government and institutions at play here.(better understanding of the likely material demands and potential flashpoints of conflict between your institutions)
FallenPears said:
None of their mean people ended up catastrophically terraforming a province remotely from over the entire Wall as pure collateral damage... probably.

I mean, I doubt they're as bad as Golden Fields, but finding out the negative environmental effects you've been dealing with for most if not all of your history was in fact not simple geographical bad luck but the consequences of another nations civil war that you had absolutely nothing to do with is probably not a pleasant revelation.

Well, hopefully it was a frozen wasteland before that anyway so it hasn't actually made things worse when thinking logically, just shifted the badness, which would hopefully just reduce this down to just awkward. Fingers crossed we'll find out more context on the state and history of the Seared Lands soon.
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Keep in mind that what happened to the Golden Fields itself was probably 10x worse than what happened to the surrounding regions. So if they are (justifiably) annoyed that it was the Empire's fault, we can always point out that we've effectively already been punished for it, and far more severely than anything they could realistically do to us.
 
Also point out that such events happens often enough in the empire that nothing outside nations toss at them will equal to their own self inflicted misery.
 
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