Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Could we have done some cool shit in the Valley? Yeah. But we chose Rivers and Caves by a slim margin and it really wasn't a bad choice (yet, high danger) to choose a well rounded above average fief that we can improve to an incredible well rounded fief, instead of doubling down on an average but skewed thay would have been magnificent in one thing and kinda okay in others.

Choosing rivers and caves was a gamble that we do not yet know the outcome of.

That's been my entire point.

I've just been pushing back on the idea that it isn't, or it was obviously the best choice.

It is a gamble. And we'll see how it goes.
 
And sure, maybe this is due strictly and only to the differences in cultivation style, but it is very suggestive that an almost all-cultivator population produces so many fewer high-power talents than much larger one consisting mostly of mortals.
I don't agree with drawing such sweeping generalisation since we know too little of their population, culture, cultivation style and the resources available to them. Even talents need to draw upon those to achieve success. I can only agree to disagree on this point.

Ah, a letter off, my mistake. I maintain that their wealth comes entirely from scavenging things built before their time, which puts them still in the "ultra-high exotics, doubled down on".
I disagree with the conclusion and framing. Golden Fields nobles are called desert rats since most are dirt poor and any arable land is mostly concentrated around oases. Scavenging is not much better either since most of the Golden Fields is totally inaccessible due to ashwalkers getting more numerous, stronger and smarter the further in one ventures.

The reason for Gu clan's success are the metals they mine, refine and sell. Anyone can be made into a caricature but that is a poor way to get a point across.

Edit: Changed "they" to "Golden Fields nobles" since that seemed to confuse some people.
 
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My biggest worry is that, unless we find Cyan+ level treasures, then we are pretty capped on how far our gamble can take us.
Finding a Cyan + resources at the moment would be the worst that could happen to us.
Cyan + stuff is the kind of resource that is actively controlled by the imperial throne. That is not the attention we need.

And sure, maybe this is due strictly and only to the differences in cultivation style, but it is very suggestive that an almost all-cultivator population produces so many fewer high-power talents than much larger one consisting mostly of mortals.

I think the cloud nomads have the same base human talent as the empire, but there are a few reasons why they have a much flatter pyramid.

1. they kill the entire bottom line
2. they don't have entire people who are spirit blooded
3. they have no resources, their religion forbids them from mining what they could have in the mountains (so they can't cheat the tallent)
4. they are nomads, and just don't have the 10 million reds that probably takes it to produce 1 white (the empire probably has the 100 million mortals that takes it to produce a white)
 
Finding a Cyan + resources at the moment would be the worst that could happen to us.
Cyan + stuff is the kind of resource that is actively controlled by the imperial throne. That is not the attention we need.
If Cyan+ was controlled by the Throne, then there wouldn't be a single high level cultivator outside of the imperial line and their servants.

That's clearly not the case.

The one thing we know it's exclusive to the Imperial Throne is White level spirit stones.
 
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The one thing we know it's exclusive to the Imperial Throne is White level spirit stones.
Well no. Cyan stones are considered strategic resources and you dont get stones higher then that outside the Peaks mines. Those mines are controlled by the throne. So if we find mine that can spit out cyan stone (spirit stone mines fall under exotic) we are probably not going to get to keep them atleast.
 
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The reason for Gu clan's success

They are called desert rats since most are dirt poor

Please pick one position. Are they dirt poor desert rats or are they a wealthy viscount family?

4. they are nomads, and just don't have the 10 million reds that probably takes it to produce 1 white (the empire probably has the 100 million mortals that takes it to produce a white)

Which is *why* a large population is a stronger power base than a lot of exotic resources for cultivation.

They're a civilisation of almost entirely cultivators with access to the entire wall for resources and sites.

And they are weaker for it.
 
Well no. Cyan stones are considered strategic resources and you dont get stones higher then that outside the Peaks. Those mines are controlled by the throne. So if we find mine that can spit out cyan stone (spirit stone mines fall under exotic) we are probably not going to get to keep them atleast.
Regularly sure, but occasional cyan stones for the mine would probably be fine. I don't think the throne will care about a mine that spits out a single cyan stone every couple decades.
 
Well no. Cyan stones are considered strategic resources and you dont get stones higher then that outside the Peaks mines.

You're overstating that. What we actually know is:

Spirit stones above green quality had no set price because they were effectively strategic resources.

Remember that "strategic" does not only apply to the Imperial clan - it applies to every little power.

It's merely a matter of "being stably available on the market". There are undoubtedly many sources, it's just that everybody prefers to hold onto them rather than trading, unless the unique circumstances make it worth it.

(I also remember that only White stones are exclusive, but I didn't dig that reference up)
 
Less the throne in this case yeah, more that the Cai probably got dibs on them. And yes there is a difference between CRX and the Cai in this case.
Fair, but Shenhua doesn't seem the type to take away resources from her daughter if she earns them. She's pretty hands off and it's not like she really needs cyan stones. She's got a ducal clan budget for a clan of two cultivators and a baby. Letting the cultivator in her clan that earned it and can actually make use of them just makes sense.
 
Well no. Cyan stones are considered strategic resources and you dont get stones higher then that outside the Peaks mines. Those mines are controlled by the throne. So if we find mine that can spit out cyan stone (spirit stone mines fall under exotic) we are probably not going to get to keep them atleast.
No no, I'm pretty sure only White stones are Throne exclusives- not even the Bai have them.

With the sheer amount of Cyan+ cultivators, Cyan stones do pop up, they just don't do so with enough regularity that there's a stable economy around them. People simply hoard them.

Also, there are more than spirit stones to "cyan resources". Maybe a spring of spiritual water, a cyan tree like Zeqing's, etc.
 
We are doubling down on exotics? We'll end up with at least four friendly spirit communities on our territory, with another potential Indigo/Violet one dropping in from time to time.

We are going to be one of the most spiritually active viscounties, excluding those empowered from elsewhere like the Argent Sect. Our numbers are already high and, unlike most imperials, we will be cooperating with them instead of trying to destroy them.

No no, I'm pretty sure only White stones are Throne exclusives- not even the Bai have them.

Yeah, the Bai have a Prism stone.
 
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Which is *why* a large population is a stronger power base than a lot of exotic resources for cultivation.

They're a civilisation of almost entirely cultivators with access to the entire wall for resources and sites.

And they are weaker for it.

3. they have no resources, their religion forbids them from mining what they could have in the mountains (so they can't cheat the tallent)

Yes, a large population helps, but resources cheat the talent game.
Agriculture helps support population, but it would take centuries to grow a relevant enough population for the "talent Game".
So Agriculture would have probably been better in 500 to 1000 Years. Right here and now for our immediate problems? I would say resources are more important, considering 500 years from now we either have CRX as Duchess or we are probably dead.

No no, I'm pretty sure only White stones are Throne exclusives- not even the Bai have them.

We have a WOG of that and there were talks about it in the story.
"There are other spirit stone mines but area the imperial family controls is much, much richer and more productive as well as being the only regular source for stones of cyan grade or higher." Quoted strait from Yrsillar.

As an example of a Cyan + great resource, i would look at the tapestry we "sold" to the Meng. We got a lot for that one, and getting stuff like that regular would garner us attention we have no way of handling.
 
Yes, a large population helps, but resources cheat the talent game.

The impression I'm getting here is that you are calling the imperial method of cultivation a cheat? Interesting, but since we don't see what resources are used in cloud cultivation, unsupported.

Given spiritual loci are accessible without mining, i'd also say "resources" is being used by others (myself included) to refer to more than just spirit stones.
 
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Nobody mentioning turbo ag spawning or supporting bioexotics… but I agree that fully leveraging it would likely take centuries. Either way, we've got a bunch of interesting stuff to explore and develop now and more we haven't discovered.

For the strategic resource discussion is that like your assets are immediately nationalized or something more like you must be sufficiently loyal and have guaranteed agreements for quantity, percentage, price, right of first purchase, etc?

How often are people's administration regions actually yanked out from under them vs. acquired through marriages/fighting?

Edit: it felt a bit like most family's responsibilities were geographically concentrated.
 
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I got the impression that the celestial peaks are the only place high level spirits stones form because the celestial peaks are a profoundly artificial landscape.
 
Then the Bai won't have a Prism stone

As in, they wouldn't have gotten it by digging in their territories? Agreed. Capture of a strategic resource through war or trade seems entirely possibly though, especially since "who has what stones?" is critically secret information about family strength at that level.

Or maybe one-offs are found one in a blue moon elsewhere, but reliable/regenerating stone mines are celestial only.
 
Then the Bai won't have a Prism stone
And there would be virtually zero high level cultivators around the Empire outside of the Imperial Throne 💁‍♂️
We have a WOG of that and there were talks about it in the story.
"There are other spirit stone mines but area the imperial family controls is much, much richer and more productive as well as being the only regular source for stones of cyan grade or higher." Quoted strait from Yrsillar.

As an example of a Cyan + great resource, i would look at the tapestry we "sold" to the Meng. We got a lot for that one, and getting stuff like that regular would garner us attention we have no way of handling.

Ngl, this makes no sense. There are multiple Prisms throghout this province alone, with the appropriate number of Violets, Indigos and Cyans bellow then.

And we know Imperial Cultivation relies a lot on stones, or at least some analogue.

There's no way the various counties and duchies don't have their own renewable cultivation resources. Plainly doesn't work. Maybe they are cultivating with Indigo-level spiritual weed, but there's gotta be something.
 
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The impression I'm getting here is that you are calling the imperial method of cultivation a cheat? Interesting, but since we don't see what resources are used in cloud cultivation, unsupported.

Given spiritual loci are accessible without mining, i'd also say "resources" is being used by others (myself included) to refer to more than just spirit stones.

The imperial method itself? No.
The fact that almost every clan in the empire has some form of spirit blood (some more potent than others) + resources that are easy to use and don't risk the user dying early? Yea that's pretty unfair.
-The White sky carve themselves up, that can lead to an early end.
-Khem has their dregs when they fail to cultivate.
-The Nomads have no mortals to speak of.
In the Empire, almost everyone can reach green eventually. The first time it gets really dicey is cyan.

I think it was stated somewhere that if you throw enough stones at a mortal, the vast majority would awaken sooner or later.
And the great clans have enough stones that even below average talented people will reach green eventually.

Nomads by default are not known to have a lot of resources, like that's their whole thing.
But I agree that that is speculation since we have not actually seen then cultivate or any of their regular sites.

Ngl, this makes no sense. There are multiple Prisms throghout this province alone, with the appropriate number of Violents, Indigos and Cyans bellow then.

It makes sense when the imperial throne in exchange for the allegiance gives away resources. The Imperial family can't hold the empire alone. And there are methods of cultivation that don't require spirit stones, look at Shu Yue or Shenhua for that matter (I don't think her cheat involved spirit stones). Those methods are just more dangerous, and the Imperial throne wants stability.
It's basically a lot of politics involved.
 
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It absolutely matters. Grom from "average" to "pretty good" is very different from going from "very good" to "I own this market now".

It could have been the heart of the Iron Road, as people are calling it. At the very, very least, the heart of the frontier. A stable, rich valley, whose influence only grows and grows as it develops evermore, because where there is peace and food, there will be more people, more business, more ventures- and more cultivator talents.

The economics, demographics and diplomatic situation all called for it.

Alas, people have forgone our massive stacking advantages, and underestimated the power of land >.>

Oh well, let's see if it pays off (I don't think it will). Maybe there is a spirit stone mine somewhere. Of course, that probably will go directly under CRX.

Sorry for the late reply, but do you really think that just because we picked the Valley, we'll suddenly take over a market that's been established for many years? IIRC, the Golden Fields used to be the breadbasket of the empire, then it went boom and the task fell onto the Emerald Seas, where other counts and viscounts have had years to grow in the market. Like, with Zhengui, we'll get there in maybe 1000 years or so with either site, but we still won't take over the market completely.

And I don't really think you can say it "could have been" when our fief has barely started out. We've not fully developed any of the sites we've found. Iirc, Veins of the Earth will help with agriculture when they're finally developed, and that might boost the Medium Agrig to High Agrig even before Zhengui.

And again, we're now starting out. We're planning how all of that will go. For demographics, well, I'll wait for the Meng geomancer first since that'll decide how we even structure homes and how many buildings we'll have and everything. As for the diplomatic situation, we're based close to the meeting place. We're near our allies in the Wang and Meng. It's pretty good imo.

And for the power of land...well, we have that. It's not Low Agrig, but Medium, with the possibility of going further with Zhengui and Veins of the Earth (if my memory serves me right). We'll always have enough to feed the people in our fief so that they won't starve like LQ did when she ran away, and for me, that's the most important thing. For trade, we have the Shining Air, we have possible animals to domesticate and breed. We have the dragon ponies. We have special beaver wood and potential star reagents. We have possible Abyssal stuff from Suyin, and we have lots of spirit courts to share and learn from. Like the Beavers! History and a new or forgotten formation style in one! And that's ignoring ALL the other stuff we're getting from our connections because really LAND isn't enough. You need CAPITAL and ENTREPRENEURSHIP too. I didn't mention LABOUR because no matter what our labour will be low because of our cirrent size and people having to settle in.

So really, I think Rivers and Caves are okay. We'll be able to work well with food and as soon as we develop some stuff we'll have a lot to trade. Even if that takes a while we're the frontier so we'll be the middle man for White Sky trade, and we have the landfall LQ made from the auction to first fund us, plus CRX too, so I don't really see the problem.

And this is just speculation on my part, but I think Rivers and Caves will work best with Liminal Carver with all the entrances and BOUNDARIES.

But meh. Ultimately I wasn't there for the vote and learned all of this retroactively, but I still think Rivers and Caves is the best! I mean it even has Mist for LQ's aesthetic.

PS: Does fully quoting a message and responding to each paragraph count as spaghetti posting?
 
It makes sense when the imperial throne in exchange for the allegiance gives away resources. The Imperial family can't hold the empire alone. And there are methods of cultivation that don't require spirit stones, look at Shu Yue or Shenhua for that matter (I don't think her cheat involved spirit stones). Those methods are just more dangerous, and the Imperial throne wants stability.
It's basically a lot of politics involved.
You can hold the empire without cultivators that could feasibly threaten the throne itself. Furthermore, there are polities that predate the unification whom also had their own high level cultivators.
 
As in, they wouldn't have gotten it by digging in their territories? Agreed. Capture of a strategic resource through war or trade seems entirely possibly though, especially since "who has what stones?" is critically secret information about family strength at that level.

Or maybe one-offs are found one in a blue moon elsewhere, but reliable/regenerating stone mines are celestial only.

Now you're just twisting my words. You said the majority of my high level stones come from the Peaks, but the Bai have a Prism stone so that's not true. They're older than the Empire. I doubt they wouldn't have high level spirit mines.
 
And there would be virtually zero high level cultivators around the Empire outside of the Imperial Throne 💁‍♂️


Ngl, this makes no sense. There are multiple Prisms throghout this province alone, with the appropriate number of Violets, Indigos and Cyans bellow then.

And we know Imperial Cultivation relies a lot on stones, or at least some analogue.

There's no way the various counties and duchies don't have their own renewable cultivation resources. Plainly doesn't work. Maybe they are cultivating with Indigo-level spiritual weed, but there's gotta be something.

With enough ones, you can basically push anyone to Green. Past that, they really start losing their importance especially after Violet I think. You can't have high level cultivators without good cultivation sites, or without insights, or without tribulations and more. Like, we're literally going through Green and seeing how much you need to advance to advance in it. Like, yeah spirit stones are important for cultivation, but saying they're the only reason why there won't be high lvl cultivators without them in ignoring so much
 
Now you're just twisting my words. You said the majority of my high level stones come from the Peaks, but the Bai have a Prism stone so that's not true. They're older than the Empire. I doubt they wouldn't have high level spirit mines.
Bai used another cultivation method back before the empire. The imperial spirit stone based cultivation just competed out other forms of cultivation. Even then we saw some and heard of other types. Like the Albaster sands pearl things or Meizhen taking in "artifical stones" from water like LQ does from filtered stellar qi with EPC and SSC.
 
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