Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
To figure out a good Domain, let's ask ourselves two questions:
  • Who is Ling Qi?
  • What kind of choices do we, the players, like?
Ling Qi is a former street rat, born out of wedlock to a prostitute and an unknown father. She ran away from everything she had out of fear for her future. When she entered the Sect, all she had was her mother's wooden flute and a hope for the future. Because she was afraid, she seeks safety. To be safe, she seeks power. Because she was alone, she seeks friends. To keep her friends, she worries greatly about their well-being. In other words, Ling Qi most strongly associates herself with feelings of safety (Darkness, mobility, the Moon that's been supporting her) and things that link her to her loved ones (music, support skills).

What kind of options do we take? Will we ever take hopeless options or take no options at all? No, we will persevere no matter the odds and always seek the best results. The exact art choices will be argued over, but that doesn't really matter as much as the life choices we make. Will we ever choose to abandon a friend? Betray a friend?
 
When has Ling Qi purposely created chaos for the sake of chaos though? Your original post stated that you wanted Ling Qi to be about chaos. You did not state using that chaos to protect people. Your domain idea was solely the idea of chaos.



You state about the trickster path. To me the trickster path is very clear. It is not the path of being a teacher. It is not the path of disrupting order when it becomes too much. It is not the path of protecting. Being a trickster is the path of Loki. Causing pain and humiliation to anyone he could. Loki tricked everyone. He didn't care who you were. Loki just wanted to trick everyone and prove how smart he was. That is not what Ling Qi is about. She cares deeply about her friends and would never want to cause them harm or embarrassment just to prove a point.

You state about how Ling Qi was accused of not having fun anymore in the sect. This scene is in Thunder dome redux.



Here she is not really being accused of not doing anything fun anymore, she is being accused of being afraid of what others think of her. It does talk about trickery but that is not what Ling Qi enjoys. She does not enjoy tricking people, she enjoys the challenge of the trick not the trick itself.

Let us go to the different parts of Elder Jiao's training and see if Ling Qi did indeed have fun on any of them.

"Well, at least you are not wholly blind still," Elder Jiao said dryly from where he now sat, or rather lay, leaning against the arm of the divan. His bald head was bare today, and he wore robes in an absolutely hideous shade of yellow that hurt her eyes to look at for too long.

"Greetings Elder Jiao," Ling Qi replied hastily, straightening her back and clasping her hands to bow respectfully to the older man. "Thank you very much for granting me the honor of your time."

He looked down at her with a neutral expression and then sighed, waving one bony hand dismissively. "Yes, I think that will be enough simpering for the moment. Get off the floor and take a proper seat girl. The chairs are not entirely for decoration."

"Of course Honored Elder," Ling Qi replied, rising quickly to her feet and moving to do as instructed settling herself in the nearest seat a bit nervously. She still wasn't comfortable with formality, and Elder Jiao's lax attitude made it hard to judge what was appropriate.

He watched her settle into the seat and smooth her gown nervously with her hands, a spark of amusement in his odd eyes. "You have decided what you desire to be instructed in I hope?" He asked, turning his gaze to study his fingernails, seemingly having lost interest in her.
"I had hoped to receive your instruction in the ways of improving my perception of the world," Ling Qi said, inclining her head respectfully. "More specifically… I have had trouble with unraveling the trails and secrets left behind by my enemies and was hoping for your insight in investigating such matters."

He looked up with a hint of interest. "Is that so? Not quite what I expected, but then again, I suppose you are playing at being half a spymaster for that Cai child, aren't you?"

"I am honored by your attention," Ling Qi replied, not quite daring to raise her head. "Yes, I have been performing a few small tasks for lady Cai. I have my own interests to seek as well though," she added pausing as she considered her next words. "The Grinning Moon has given me a task."

"Is that so?" He asked, not sounding particularly impressed. "And your second request?"

Ling Qi hesitated a moment, then drew the bundle of bags she had looted from the barbarian shaman out of her ring. "I humbly request instruction in the formation arts, so that I may break the seals upon these. The script is very complex, and I worry that my current skill is insufficient."

The Elder squinted at the unassuming hide bags in her lap, expression souring. "...You were the one involved in that little mess weren't you?" He mused aloud, straightening his posture a bit. "I suppose it speaks well for your luck that you are sitting here today and not lying buried in our new lake," he said in an irritated tone. "Well I suppose Sister Ying would not have allowed you to keep that prize if she sensed anything truly dangerous within," he added under his breath.

Ling Qi frowned, looking at the man in consternation. "Sister Ying?" she muttered under her breath, he looked far her junior, though his qi was near nonexistant to her senses.

Unsurprisingly, the Elder heard her and let out an amused snort. "Girl, if you still believe the appearance of age means anything, you have not been paying attention. Shi Ying looks as she does because she has always been a nosy old woman, even as an unblossomed girl," he said dryly. "I too remain as I always have, a refined gentleman of impeccable taste and charm."

It was a true monument to her self control that Ling Qi managed to keep her expression utterly neutral in the wake of that statement. Her gaze did not flick down to the monstrosity of a ministers robe the man wore. Not even for a moment.

She worried that he could sense her thoughts though, given the look he gave her during the uncomfortable silence that stretched in the aftermath of his words. "Hmph, children these days," he grumbled. An instant later he was standing in front of her, less than a meter away. She did not see him move, she did not see his form blur, or even feel a fluctuation of qi. He simply changed positions from one moment to the next. "Put that away and come along then, girl," he said neutrally. "I shall be assigning you some coursework to determine your formations skill for future lessons, so we will begin with honing your observational skills."

"Of course Elder Jiao," Ling Qi responded quickly hurrying to stand up and dismiss the bags back into her ring before following the older man already striding toward the entrance to the cave.

In the hours that followed, she was forced to strain her senses, and recall details far in excess of what she normally noticed. The number of leaves on a particular branch or the exact placement of stones on the side of the road were merely the beginning. To an outsider it might seem like she was simply following the man on an easy stroll through the upper mountain, answering a constant stream of questions, but to her, it quickly grew painful as she was forced to channel qi through her eyes and ears for far longer than before, until her head throbbed and her dantian grew empty.

In the end trying to track and catalogue every detail of her environment left her feeling bleary eyed and exhausted by the time the Elder waved her off and vanished, leaving her with only a thick workbook full of formations problems and questions to be completed by the day after next.

All too soon though, the time for her lessons with the Elder drew near, and she had to withdraw, she would have to continue observing and investigating in the afternoons to follow.

She was a bit nervous about today's lessons after all, she would be turning in the workbook the Elder had assigned her, and given the number of problems she had failed to answer or solve, she wasn't feeling confident about getting his approval.

That feeling only grew as she spent minutes sitting stiffly in one of the plush seats lining the room, watching the grey skinned man page lazily through the book. She was certain he was doing it on purpose to wind her up, there was no way the man really needed that much time to examine her work. She kept her gaze on her own lap rather than on the room around her; with the exception of the painting of Xin, the decorations changed every day, and today the hanging depicted disturbing images of twisted, misshapen spirits against backdrops of stars and disquieting underground vistas that hurt her eyes to look at.

Minutes ticked by in silence, and she could do little but endure and think. Su Ling had spoken to her earlier this morning, asking if she would be training at the vent. She was happy to find one of her friends seeking her out for once, and even more glad to have one of her training partners back. She was looking forward to spending time with her after this lesson.

"Your technical proficiency is somewhat lacking," the Elder's dry voice shook her from her thoughts. "And I cannot call any of your solutions, such as they are, inspired. Nor can I find among your work any particular specialization." His tone was neutral and bored. "What in the world do you want?"

She hunched her shoulders defensively. "My apologies for the penmanship. I will take more time in the future," she responded, even though she had taken more time than usual. "I'm afraid I do not know how to answer such a broad question though," a bit of irritation slipped in despite her best efforts, and she winced out how snippy her words sounded.

He scoffed, but thankfully did not sound offended, indeed, when she chanced a glance upward, she thought he looked a bit amused. "Then consider the context of my words, child" he replied, making the book vanish from his hands in a swirl of shadow. "What do you seek from the formation arts. I would hope you are not wasting my time here. Your skill is sufficient for day to day minutiae already."

Ling Qi hesitated a moment. "...Honored Elder," she began carefully. "I admit, most of my interest is in breaking and bypassing formations rather than crafting them," she admitted. "...You recall the bags I showed you the first day?"

"I do, I am hardly senile yet," Elder Jiao replied dryly, leaning back against the wall where he sat on the divan. "Is that truly all?" He asked, raising one hairless brow. "Do you find the formation arts so uninteresting?"

She was silent again, wary of the attention he was giving her, and the slight undercurrent of danger in the air. The atmosphere of the room filled her with nervousness. "Not as such," she replied, picking her words carefully. "They are versatile and broadly useful, but nothing I have been able to acquire is useful in the immediate sense," she admitted. "I just have so many things to do that spending time learning individual arrays seems…" she trailed off, not sure how to put it well.

He regarded her coolly for a moment before snorting. "Well, not an unexpected answer. The sort of arrays available in the archive are hardly the sort of thing to compete against the ability to shoot lightning from one's eyes."

Ling Qi blinked. "Is there an art like that in the archive?" she questioned curiously.

"I would not suggest it," he replied airily. "Very unstable, and difficult to aim besides. It can give the user rather terrible migraines as well." he flicked his sleeve dismissively. "The formation arts are a thing of infinite complexity… but its masters are not prone to sharing."

"So, the arrays in the archives..." Ling Qi said slowly. "They're just the things everyone knows, aren't they?"

"Quite so," Elder Jiao said with a chuckle. "Things that are used so commonly that no one is going to hide them. That is not to say that you cannot advance in the art using those materials however. Can you tell me how?"

Ling Qi frowned, her expression souring. "...You have to create them yourself, don't you, using the primers available."

"Or convince a master to teach you, yes," he replied. "I will inform you now that I have no inclination to do such."

Ling Qi smiled bitterly, the reminder that this was a limited training course was hardly welcome. "Of course, Honored Elder," she replied, inclining her head. "I would be happy merely to receive your insights into the foundations of the art."

He eyed her for a moment consideringly and then flicked his billowing sleeve again. This time, she had to hastily raise her hands to catch the scroll and brush case he had tossed at her. "Then pay close attention, child. I will not repeat myself."

Ling Qi hastily moved to unroll the blank scroll and prepare herself to take notes. She absolutely would not waste this.

Elder Jiao was, for all his irreverence, obviously an expert in this. She could barely keep up with his words on the interactions between the basic characters and the functions of their components… as well as the ways in which the characters could be altered in order to nullfiy or bypass their effects.

For the next few hours there was no sound except that of his voice and her brush, and numbers and characters danced behind her eyes by the time she staggered out of the cave. His words had given her inspiration though, and she fell upon the bags the moment she got home.

Here in the first week of Elder Jiao's lessons I do not find anything mentioning the word or even the idea of fun. In fact pain was asscoicted with this first lesson as Ling Qi stretched her qi sense as far as she could. Now onto the next week!

She still managed to land on her feet, wincing as she rubbed the top of her head, which throbbed with the force of the impact. She peered warily through the gloomy room to see who had startled her so. It took only a moment to recognize the person in question, her portrait had been staring at her all week after all.

Xin stood beside her seat with a bemused expression, and one hand on her hip. She wore a gown of dark blue and black which glittered with starry light at her every movement. Her white hair was put up in an elaborate updo though pinned in place with glittering onyx pins and jewelry. "Feeling a little wound up dear?" She asked compassionately, though Ling Qi could see the twinkle of humor in her red eyes.

Ling Qi lowered her hand as she got her breathing back under control, and did her best not to glower at the older woman… spirit. "My apologies," she said with a bow. "I was only startled by your presence honored…"

Xin clicked her tongue and… for lack of a better word, flickered, appearing directly in front of Ling Qi to peer down at her. Had the woman been tall enough to do that before? "Do not be like that now young lady," she admonished, examining the point where Ling Qi had banged her head. "There is no call to speak to me so formally."

"Ah… sorry?" Ling Qi tried instead, thrown off balance as she felt the woman's cold hand come to rest on top of her head, washing away the minor ache with a feeling like cold water being trickled down her neck. "Why are you here?" she blurted, feeling tongue tied in the woman's presence. "I mean… did something happen with Elder Jiao?"

Xin took a step back, examining her with a critical eye. It made Ling Qi feel vaguely childish, like it was her mother standing in front of her, checking to see if she had torn one of her gowns. "Oh, he got a little delayed is all," she replied dismissively, finally looking up to meet Ling Qi's gaze with her own slightly luminescent one. "You have grown so well, haven't you," she said warmly. "I can hardly compare you the skinny, dim spark you were when last we met."

"Thank you?" Ling Qi said, feeling uncomfortable at the examination. It was true that she was no longer quite so malnourished, and she had grown much stronger. "I… you're looking well too?" she tried, only to remember Jiao's words at the end of the test. "Ah, I'm sorry if I caused you any trouble."

"It was nothing dear," she responded easily, waving her hand carelessly to brush off the apology. "Becoming a voice for my greater self is merely uncomfortable at worst, and you have grown for it," she continued, her gaze drifting downward to fix on Ling Qi's stomach, or rather she suspected, her dantian. "While I admit I had a little hope of poaching you for myself. The Grinning Moon will not treat you poorly though."

Right, Xin was an aspect of the New Moon, Ling Qi thought, it made sense that she could tell what choice she had made. "I hope not to fail in meeting her expectations," she replied agreeably. "I did consider your offer strongly as well though."

Xin looked pleased, raising her eyes back to Ling Qi's face. "I suppose we will see, you are hardly ready to choose a Way properly yet regardless," she mused. "Your still in that experimenting stage," she added impishly. "Trying anything and everything, your spirit is quite muddled as of yet."

Ling Qi's expression grew concerned as she looked down, as if to examine herself. "...Is that bad?" She asked cautiously. "And what do you mean about choosing a Way?"

"Hardly, you haven't found your true drive yet, which is hardly unusual for your age," Xin replied reassuringly. "As for a Way, all cultivators must eventually choose the concept which defines them, it is impossible to advance beyond what you call cyan without…"

"XIN," Ling Qi flinched as Elder Jiao's voice boomed through the cavern, rattling the furniture, the shadows in the room roiled and swelled, tendrils of absolute darkness, opaque even to her vision writhing across every surface as the light of the lantern flickered wildly. Worse still were the eyes, wide and glaring, gleaming like kaleidoscopes, that opened by the dozen across the shadows in the room.

"Oh bother. I really thought that would hold him for a bit longer than this," the spirit sighed, resting her cheek in her hand, but seeming otherwise unperturbed. Ling Qi shot her an incredulous look.

"Twelve layers," the elders voice no longer rattled the furniture, but it was still painfully loud as the shadow of the divan boiled upward, bubbling like a pillar of tar as it took on Elder Jiao's features. He ignored her entirely in favor of glaring at Xin. "Why would you leave a twelve layered dream cage around the workshop you insufferable woman!"

Ling Qi quietly scuttled off to the side, not wanting to be in the Elder's line of sight, his qi was nearly suffocating as it was.

Xin crossed her arms, turning a frown on the Elder. "Do not take that tone with me, and cease the dramatics, you'll scare the poor girl to death."

Ling Qi hunched her shoulders, instinctively trying to appear small as the Elder glanced her way… and let out an irritated huff, the twisted reaching shadows receding along with the suffocating weight of his qi. "Did it occur to you just to ask if you wanted to accompany me?" He said pointedly to Xin, still sounding quite irritated.

"Is it not my duty as a wife to ensure that my husband does not grow lax?" Xin asked flippantly.

He stared at her for a moment, unmoving, unbreathing, utterly still, and then turned to Ling Qi. "I," he declared. "Am ignoring you," he said as if handing out a proclamation from on high. "You," he continued, pointing at Ling Qi. "Will also be ignoring her, or this lesson will end."

"That is hardly fair," Xin protested. "Come now, it was not that bad."

"Which of my teachings do you seek this week, Disciple," Jiao continued airily, as if he hadn't heard her.

Ling Qi glanced between the two, feeling terribly off kilter. Somehow, her image of the Sect's Elders had been changed in a fundamental way. SHe fumbled a bit, trying to remember her rehearsed speech. "I… that is… I was hoping for the honored Elders advice on the matters of retrieving enemy resources from guarded locations or containers, as well as their person. If…"

The grey skinned man gave her a flat look. "You are asking me to tutor you in the arts of thievery. Is that truly what you want to ask?"

Ling Qi looked down, shuffling her feet a little, ignoring Xin's laugh. "...Yes," she said in a small voice.

"My, what an insightful girl," Xin said, sounding smug.

Jiao ignored her utterly and merely palmed his face for a moment. "You know, why not. Come disciple," he replied, flickering from the divan to the doorway.

"What are we doing?" Ling Qi asked, hurrying after him, and slipping from her formal speech. She also cast an apologetic look at Xin, who drifted after them, no longer pretending to walk.

"Live targets are required for this training," Jaio replied evenly. "You shall be testing yourself against your fellows at my instruction. You will of course, be required to deal with the fallout of failure on your own. You will not mention your training."

Ling Qi grimaced. She really should have expected something like this. She supposed she would just have to do her best to avoid ending up in trouble.

What followed was… tense, incredibly so. Elder Jiao would set her a task, like pilfering stones or pills from a disciple, or slipping into a home unnoticed and planting tokens in specific locations, with nary a hint of advice, and only a few casual pointers for improvement in the aftermath. It ramped up quickly. It ramped up quickly, as they proceeded to the part of the mountain where many of the older disciples lived apart. She switched the contents of people's bags, broke locks, planted pills and tokens in bedrooms and bathrooms, rearranged furniture and knick knacks in the instants when their owners were out of the room.


...And she managed without getting caught once, even when he commanded something ridiculous, like replacing a girls hairpins from her dressing table without her noticing, while the girl was putting them in.

Her success did seem to put the man in a better mood at least, and with each success, his advice on improving her cultivation of the more larcenous parts of sable crescent step grew more useful. Xin was encouraging as well, but sadly she had to ignore the spirit. Xin did not seem like she took offense though, focused as she was on needling Elder Jiao, who ignored her every attempt with great dignity.

It was, overall, quite a useful evening.

...Even if the news which reached her later of a spree paintbombs, surprise hairdyes, and other prankish things, as well as fights breaking out over stolen property made her hope desperately that no one ever discovered what she had been doing. She knew those tokens he kept handing her were suspicious.

Here in week two of Elder Jiao's lessons we get the first real test of trickery, or of at least stealth. Yet she does not describe it as fun only tense and worrying as she hopes no one finds out about what she did. On to week 3!

Matters with Elder Jiao were a little more difficult, once the stressful cultivation of Argent Mirror was done, they moved swiftly on to the second half of her requested lesson plans. It was rather less… childish than the last exercise. Namely because instead of being put into a dream state he simply sent her to a heavily locked and trapped room which steadily sapped her qi, forcing her to try and escape before the drain knocked her unconscious.

It gave her a new appreciation for the many many options she had given her ability to fit through tiny spaces, but it also taught her that her abilities were not foolproof, she couldn't exactly disable snares located in spaces too small for her to materialize in after all.

She could feel her understanding of Sable Crescent step growing by the hour as she worked through the ever changing gauntlets. Ling Qi could tell that she was nearing mastery of the technique.

This week has by far the least information but it is clear that from the context that she is not having fun in these rooms. Also she is not tricking people here simply trying to get out of the next gauntlet. There are no people in these rooms so no trickery happening. On to week 4!

Jiao's expression was flat and stony as he ignored his giggling wife. "...So you have. What will you do with your final few days of training then?"

"I was hoping," Ling Qi began, even as she glanced uncomfortably at Xin "I was hoping you could instruct me on the nature of spirits… and how to further my understanding of Eight Phase Ceremony."

Jiao sighed, even as Xin grinned. "Of course you do," the man grumbled. "Fine."


These lessons were much less stressful thankfully, and overseen as often by Xin as by the Elder himself, granting her insights into the way spirits behaved even as she refined her ability to take in qi from the night sky. Soon enough though, they came to an end, and the prickly Elder bade her goodbye for the last time.

She had made a… mostly good impression, maybe?

So I skipped most of the scene with Xin because it had nothing to do with training or trickery and more dealing with the nature of spirits. But once again no real trickery happening here. Simply conversations into the manner of spirits and the intake of stellar qi.

So after reviewing all four weeks of training of Elder Jiao I could not find a single instance that would jump out at me and say "Wow Ling Qi is really having fun at these lessons!" At most the lessons are described as less stressful. Not something I would ever use to describe something that was fun. Were the lessons good for Ling Qi? Yes. However I would not say that the lessons were fun and I do not know where you could have gotten that idea from. Perhaps you are confusing the good memories and fun times we had with Xin later with those of the training sessions? After all you did not even mention Elder Jiao by name.

As for the first round of the tournament and us causing chaos we really did not even mean to. If you take a gander at the canonized omake "Tournament Perspective: Cai Renxiang" you will see a really interesting quote that reveals a lot about Ling Qi.



She did not even think about what her opponents were going through. No thought to their suffering, or terror, or chaos. A trickster causes chaos because they enjoys chaos. If Ling Qi creates chaos it's because she has another goal in mind. Chaos might be a tool that Ling Qi uses from time to time in order to achieve her goal but chaos is not the goal of Ling Qi. If it is not a goal or even a priority for Ling Qi then we really shouldn't slot it into our domain because once again your domain is your soul. It is who you are. It is what your priorities and goals are. It is the direction that the cultivators life will follow until they turn to dust. Unless the goal of Ling Qi is to create chaos or to trick in everything that she does we should not focus on those aspect.

As for your statement that not every problem dealing with our friends needs to be dealt with in a physical way I point you to our current domain. Our domain right now does nothing physical it is all spiritual. If the domain was a physical effect it would be knocking people out that try to use lies or illusions against us. But it doesn't, it simply quietly in the background supports those that we care about. There are no flashy lights no sudden noises. Only the quiet support of a girl trying to build a family.
Now, I am not thinking Ling Qi necessarily needs to be a Trickster, but a couple thing:

Ling Qi did indeed comment multiple times upon having fun through the act of trickery itself. Some of the time there was guilt itself tied into having the 'wrong' victims, though. Ling Qi does enjoy chaos to some deep measures. It's not something, however, that she needs to the same degree that Sixiang does.

Your characterisation of Loki, and your characterisation of Tricksters, are very reductionists. Loki or Coyote or any other of the Tricksters or Fools are the ones who are the checks on the rulers. Loki isn't about pain, he is about making the ones above realise they aren't above the plight of the little people, that they too are vulnerable. Also about punishing them when they go too far. Yeah, there is obviously a lot of stories about him or about other tricksters being fucking assholes, but it's not the whole of it.

This is also why the CRX/Ling Qi relationship is so interesting, because Ling Qi does have a lot of what makes a budding trickster, and CRX does have a lot of what makes a budding authoritarian ruler. There is a very real possibility of some very interesting byplay in how they will influence each others, and I don't think we should be ignoring it.

Also lol, please don't use ''canon omake" in trying to make an argument about Ling Qi's character. This goes into the issue of it being Yrs' reading in another writer's writing of a non-Ling Qi PoV.
 
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Also lol, please don't use ''canon omake" in trying to make an argument about Ling Qi's character. This goes into the issue of it being Yrs' reading in another writer's writing of a non-Ling Qi PoV.
Well thank you for the reminder! I will be sure not to use outside sources when trying to help clarify how I feel about Ling Qi's character. I will make sure to only use quotes from chapters that are from Ling Qi's point of view and then twist and break the English language well also making up new English words and phrases to still get to where I want. I will be quasi-prefect in doing this.
 
Well thank you for the reminder! I will be sure not to use outside sources when trying to help clarify how I feel about Ling Qi's character. I will make sure to only use quotes from chapters that are from Ling Qi's point of view and then twist and break the English language well also making up new English words and phrases to still get to where I want. I will be quasi-prefect in doing this.
Oh please.

You weren't "clarifying how you felt about Ling Qi", you were using an omake as an example of why you felt that way, making it an appeal to authority of your views.

I'm not sure why the pointless insults needed to be added in your response, but whatever.
 
Oh please.

You weren't "clarifying how you felt about Ling Qi", you were using an omake as an example of why you felt that way, making it an appeal to authority of your views.

I'm not sure why the pointless insults needed to be added in your response, but whatever.

If you feel like that was a questionable claim to authority then I am simply reminding you that you have also made many questionable claims here Arkeus. No one is prefect and everyone is doing what they can to try and get the point they want across. The way you wrote your criticism of my claims certainly gave the impression that you were trying to take a moral high ground. That your claims are inherently better because you would never use such a questionable source. So I simply reminded you of mistakes you have made.
It would have been much better to say something like "I don't believe any omake is a good source for the character of Ling Qi" then your lol please. Then I would not have been so furious at you.
 
Has Yrs said anything about what determines whether the child of a spirit/mortal union is a spirit or a mortal.

Hanya, who is a spirit, has a cyan spirit mother, while her father was a green+ cultivator.

Su Ling, who is a cultivator, has a cyan spirit-beast mother, while her father was either a mortal or a common cultivator.

Does this mean that mortal/spirit unions produce spirits while mortal/spirit-beast unions produce (half-blooded) mortals?
 
Has Yrs said anything about what determines whether the child of a spirit/mortal union is a spirit or a mortal.

Hanya, who is a spirit, has a cyan spirit mother, while her father was a green+ cultivator.

Su Ling, who is a cultivator, has a cyan spirit-beast mother, while her father was either a mortal or a common cultivator.

Does this mean that mortal/spirit unions produce spirits while mortal/spirit-beast unions produce (half-blooded) mortals?

That's a really good point, hadn't noticed that.

I don't think he has, but in this case I think the physicality of the spirits in question was what lead to it.

In other words, physical spirits, that is spirit beasts, create spirit blooded humans... as you would expect. It's just a basic half human half spirit, and can be seen in the various clans and Su ling.

On the other hand, if the spirit is ethereal, then at least in Hanyi's case there's no way she could be physical as her mother wasn't able to give birth to a physical being, and as humans are physical any human part of her that may have existed was either far lessened or removed.

What happens if the spirit is the father and ethereal but mother is physical? I would bet on it being half human, but this is all just guessing.

Realistically, this is probably all just down too a case by case basis. After all, if two random spirits had a child it would be based on the spirits in question, if humans are viewed as just really weird spirits then it works the same.
 
  • Domain building isn't something to settle for what's available on. The current set of arts we have access to is not and should not be considered the entire or majority pool of domain consideration worthy Arts. Between the Cai archive, whatever EPC7/8 bring, and higher Sect floors we'll have many more good options to build a coherent whole from.
Yeah, this is definitely an important thing to remember. We're going to have 7 slots this month, probably reaching 9 sometime in Foundation. As these hypothetical builds have illustrated, we could potentially already fill up most of these slots quite fast with our current arts. We're going to have more options though. We're spoiled for choice, and we should remember this. We will probably have more cool looking things than we will actually have room for.

1.Stealth very well describes Way of LQ before sect and stays as one of her strong points later. Staying hidden means staying safe but also means don't trusting anyone and staying alone. And LQ was alone for a very large part of her life. Even now when she has close friends and acquaintances loneliness is still large part of her mental state. So Stealth and Loneliness.
Now it's true that ling qi might not see it that way, prefering to it the loss and loneliness part, thay she understand far more than the vale itself, but even so, a loneliness insight sound like exactly what I would want for the outside part of her domain. "The ouside is lonely" in opposition to the inside which is where she put her friends (not in that way you perverts :D)
The points about loneliness are definitely interesting, yeah. One comment I would make though is that I don't think loneliness is something that Ling Qi actually likes. Rather, it is her dislike of that experience that has driven much of her behaviour in acquisition of friends. With that in mind, I would be skeptical of any path that looks as if it celebrates loneliness in relation to stealth for instance.

Actually, this reminds me of an art idea I had the other day inspired by ENM. Rather than Memory, have an art focused on manipulation of Attention, enhancing stealth by making people not notice us, and enhancing music by forcing people to focus their attention on it. Such an art could, I think, fit Qi's domain very well in terms of both relationships and use of stealth. Avoiding unwanted attention, while ensuring attention from the people she likes.

With regards to the use of FVM through that lens, I think the point about contrast is meaningful. The suffering and danger caused by being alone is what emphasises and gives reason for why it's so important to have friends. However, I wouldn't really frame it as inflicting danger and suffering on non-friends. As was noted before, that degree of malevolence seems like it's somewhat OOC for Ling Qi, who is characterised more by just not thinking about people she doesn't know.

When we are stealthed our opponents cannot strike us down, when we are able to move unfettered we can avoid unfavorable confrontations, and when we are able to dodge our opponents cannot hit us. I feel then, that for a hypothetical domain arrangement a combination of PLR-TRF-HDW-SCS provides us with a story. A story that we bring friends and family to revel in the darkness and shelter them from the storms seeking to batter us down.
Mmm, interesting read. Similar to above though I would raise the question of whether or not this is what Ling Qi actually wants? I would say that Qi looks for friends in large part because she sees having them as a source of safety. While loyal, however, she isn't really a protector. Not to say that she won't work to aid her friends, but protecting them isn't really part of her identity. Trying to hide them away to keep them safe would, I feel, be kind of a weird shift? I see her more about trying to come together with them so they can all be safer and happier.

I continue to somewhat sceptical as to whether or not SCS is actually a good fit for her Domain. A useful tool, yes, but I'm not sure if it well highlights what she wants. If anything though, if I were to interact it with the Home domain I would be more inclined to read it as Ling Qi hiding in her friend's shadows for safety. At the same time though, I would also argue that having to hide isn't something that Ling Qi actually likes.

Ehh, while I broadly and in specific agree with all your points, I think you're underestimating the degree the [Home] element will distort the arts' proffered insights?

Argent Mirror, for example, had as its message: self-reflection and self-honesty leads to an immovable and unchangeable spirit. However, offered insights were [Safe Space for Insecure Family] and [Be Wary of Lies from Non-Family]. The perception aura was even only derived from the capstone tech, as that was the only place where Argent Mirror gave allies any benefits whatsoever.
I think I would see Home as contextualising the social sphere here? One could easily see a PLR + TRF + HDW social domain as being a "bring EVERYONE together" kind of thing. Filtered through Ling Qi's concept of Home, however, and it becomes a much more personal and exclusive thing.

2.Perceptiveness is a means for investigation, exploration and discovery, it is a tool for curios soul. And LQ is a very curious girl. And unlike previous point it was wholly readers "fault". Readers nudge her to try many different weapons, every Art in her disposal and, of coarse, every trial and exploration that she can. Firstly it was Argent vent, than Zeqing's Peak and many sites after that, how many times she was on hunts with Han Jian's group, how many times she participated in investigations of Sun Liling's group. It may no seem like very strong theme like with stealth and loneliness, especially because aside from AM we didn't had relevant arts, but it is a very consistent and persistent point through all of time that LQ spent in sect. She latched on her new life like monkey and grab to herself every shiny that she sees, it doesn't matter if shiny was in someones bag or on behind trap formation on a lake cave bottom, even if it means consistently beating her fear.
It's interesting you say this actually, because I was kinda thinking the opposite. I was thinking about how CDE could potentially be incorperated into the social domain for ideas similar to what I noted recently - the value of being informed about things and knowing about people etc. (also similar to a lesson we could take from the Dream Arc - not knowing what's going on is really problematic). I was somewhat leery of it however because CDE is also about curiosity, and I kinda feel that Ling Qi has a tendency to mono-focus on cultivation and the most efficient way to gain power in front of her rather than exploring and learning? Our minimal exploration last year is a case in point.
 
At the same time though, I would also argue that having to hide isn't something that Ling Qi actually likes.

Dunno, @Thor's Twin wrote a good post about the opposite with some citations to back it up. Do you have something that you base your opinion on?

Edit. Shit, I didn't mean that your opinion's baseless, I was asking if you can provide IC citations to compare with TT.
 
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Dunno, @Thor's Twin wrote a good post about the opposite with some citations to back it up. Do you have something that you base your opinion on?

Edit. Shit, I didn't mean that your opinion's baseless, I was asking if you can provide IC citations to compare with TT.
Mmm, I would look at how she reacted to Sun Liling's ambush in a way?

It's not that she doesn't find hiding to be a useful tool to achieve safety on occasion, but that she doesn't want to be weak. Being forced to run and hide from people isn't a position she actually likes being in.

I would also note here that while Thor's Twin brought up good points there for seeing how Ling Qi views shadows, I would also note that that was a Domain path that we actually didn't take - which when talking about Ling Qi's *wants* I think is kinda meaningful. Instead of security in shadows, she choose security in music and friends.
 
Mmm, interesting read. Similar to above though I would raise the question of whether or not this is what Ling Qi actually wants? I would say that Qi looks for friends in large part because she sees having them as a source of safety. While loyal, however, she isn't really a protector. Not to say that she won't work to aid her friends, but protecting them isn't really part of her identity. Trying to hide them away to keep them safe would, I feel, be kind of a weird shift? I see her more about trying to come together with them so they can all be safer and happier.

I continue to somewhat sceptical as to whether or not SCS is actually a good fit for her Domain. A useful tool, yes, but I'm not sure if it well highlights what she wants. If anything though, if I were to interact it with the Home domain I would be more inclined to read it as Ling Qi hiding in her friend's shadows for safety. At the same time though, I would also argue that having to hide isn't something that Ling Qi actually likes.
It seems to me that you are really hung up on the stealth aspect of SCS. That because it helps with stealth the insight it might give involves hiding. But that's not really what SCS is about. The hiding aspect of SCS is incidental to how it achieves what it is doing. All of SCS's current techs right now deal with movement and dodging, and the way it helps with that also increases our stealth. Grinning Cresent Dancer and One with Shadow deal with becoming indistinct and moving between places, and in that processes our stealth is also improved.

My example domain wasn't about hiding our friends and family or hiding Ling Qi at all. It was more that the darkness is comforting and safe and so why wouldn't we gather our friends and family in it?

I would think that forcing SCS into a hiding or stealth category as it's primary function misses out on everything else that the art is trying to do and teach. SCS is about darkness and what it means to be without form or presence. And when we use SCS, we exalt in the lack of form or presence. So, I suppose, another interpretation regarding SCS and our Domain is that "Home" has no concrete form or presence, but rather the connections with family and friends that we forge. We know that simply because something has no form or presence doesn't make it less valuable for us. So, combining this interpretation with PLR + TRF + HDW could be "Home is not a physical place, but the connections we forge, the bonds that strengthen us, and the happiness we find in those connections."

There a ton of ways that SCS could fit into our domain that seem to be better interpretations of what SCS is about then simply hiding.
 
Mmm, I would look at how she reacted to Sun Liling's ambush in a way?

But did she react that way because she was forced to hide and run away or because she was forced?

Being forced to run and hide from people isn't a position she actually likes being in.

Same here, you tie 'being forced to hide' and 'hide' in one concept. But it's not. She doesn't like being forced as far as I can see. If she were forced to play her flute so that Sun Liling lets her go (weird scenario but w/e), she'd be as sour about having to do it as she was about being forced to run away.

Otoh, in her duel with Chu Song, she enjoyed the feeling of control that being hidden provided her with (as far as I remember). There was some measure of vindictive pleasure about staying unseen and attacking without facing retaliation.

Instead of security in shadows, she choose security in music and friends.

I can't see why she can't become a spooky unseen musician if we guide her to it. The "there is music, but noone's playing it" type.
 
The points about loneliness are definitely interesting, yeah. One comment I would make though is that I don't think loneliness is something that Ling Qi actually likes. Rather, it is her dislike of that experience that has driven much of her behaviour in acquisition of friends. With that in mind, I would be skeptical of any path that looks as if it celebrates loneliness in relation to stealth for instance.
I mostly agree. LQ didn't like loneliness at all. It's a big part of who she is. She never would celebrate loneliness, but she understands it feeling very well and that's a big part of what was pushing her to make strong connections and even to write letter to her mother even so she was afraid to be betrayed 'again'. Summary what i was saying is that loneliness is strong theme in LQ life, not the one she was enjoying but none the less very important for her. Her lonely street-rat life make her in who she was at the beginning of her sect life. And that means that LQ understand things that have association with loneliness (like Stealth and Darkness) far better than many other people and because of this she can grasp better insight from associated Arts.

It's interesting you say this actually, because I was kinda thinking the opposite. I was thinking about how CDE could potentially be incorperated into the social domain for ideas similar to what I noted recently - the value of being informed about things and knowing about people etc. (also similar to a lesson we could take from the Dream Arc - not knowing what's going on is really problematic). I was somewhat leery of it however because CDE is also about curiosity, and I kinda feel that Ling Qi has a tendency to mono-focus on cultivation and the most efficient way to gain power in front of her rather than exploring and learning? Our minimal exploration last year is a case in point.
Well yes LQ never did go out of her way to explore more just for fun, she never did fail to explore something if there was 'carrot at the end of stick' though. Such a greedy girl.:rolleyes:
She did still enjoyed her adventures very much.
 
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I would think that forcing SCS into a hiding or stealth category as it's primary function misses out on everything else that the art is trying to do and teach. SCS is about darkness and what it means to be without form or presence. And when we use SCS, we exalt in the lack of form or presence. So, I suppose, another interpretation regarding SCS and our Domain is that "Home" has no concrete form or presence, but rather the connections with family and friends that we forge. We know that simply because something has no form or presence doesn't make it less valuable for us. So, combining this interpretation with PLR + TRF + HDW could be "Home is not a physical place, but the connections we forge, the bonds that strengthen us, and the happiness we find in those connections."
That I definitely like better, yeah.
 
Yup, that being said, I think it is important to remember that we're looking at 7-9 slots in Foundation here.

While we could, perhaps, readily fill up all those slots with our current arts that isn't necessarily a good idea.

I'd note that we only need 4 slots for Foundation, and 5 slots with one advanced for Threshold. There is probably a reason for this. Filling up more fast may not necessarily be better.

It is also, perhaps, worth thinking about builds using the minimum necessary arts as well.

In the immediate term, we already have AM, and need to fill three more slots from FVM, FSS, SCS, TRF, and CDE. FVM is almost certainly going to be picked, but the other four are more up in the air, and we only need two of them.

Man, I'd almost prefer it if we could master all of them at the same and then put them together as a build plan :p
 
Yup, that being said, I think it is important to remember that we're looking at 7-9 slots in Foundation here.

While we could, perhaps, readily fill up all those slots with our current arts that isn't necessarily a good idea.

I'd note that we only need 4 slots for Foundation, and 5 slots with one advanced for Threshold. There is probably a reason for this. Filling up more fast may not necessarily be better.

It is also, perhaps, worth thinking about builds using the minimum necessary arts as well.

In the immediate term, we already have AM, and need to fill three more slots from FVM, FSS, SCS, TRF, and CDE. FVM is almost certainly going to be picked, but the other four are more up in the air, and we only need two of them.

Man, I'd almost prefer it if we could master all of them at the same and then put them together as a build plan :p
I agree with keeping slots as low as we can to advance so we get more and more options. The problem is that once we master an art and choose not to slot it I don't think we can go back. This will lead to some pretty interesting choices.

I do think that Meizhen has slotted more into her domain then needed because she stated that her domain has grown more than her control over it has. It makes sense for her since she has such a clear vision.
 
Maybe not all at once, but arranging for multiple Arts to be Mastered simultaneously is well within the realm of possibility. FVM aside, we can finish mastering TRF/SCS/FSS at the same time, can't we?
Nah, we'll be mastering FSS this turn.

TRF needs 5 actions though. CDE needs 3/4, SCS needs 2 once we've got EPC7 I think. All we really need to do is do a bit of TRF next turn to set it up for month 5, and leave off SCS until then. Given that we'll be running full base cultivation, need to do jobs, and have PLR and maybe ENM or meridians to do month 4, that should be reasonable?

Edit: especially since I don't think we're planning on challenges in month 4 as well anyway.
 
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Nah, we'll be mastering FSS this turn.

TRF needs 5 actions though. CDE needs 3/4, SCS needs 2 once we've got EPC7 I think. All we really need to do is do a bit of TRF next turn to set it up for month 5, and leave off SCS until then. Given that we'll be running full base cultivation, need to do jobs, and have PLR and maybe ENM or meridians to do month 4, that should be reasonable?
I can dig it. FSS/FVM this turn, and some more utility based Arts for the next batch of Domain votes. It's far from perfect, but its still serviceable for the sake of getting an idea of what the build will ultimately look like :thinking:
 
Maybe not all at once, but arranging for multiple Arts to be Mastered simultaneously is well within the realm of possibility. FVM aside, we can finish mastering TRF/SCS/FSS at the same time, can't we?

FSS and FVM are being mastered at the same time, right now. SCS probably next month as it's good and would only take 2 AP, and TRF probably the month after that (it's 5 AP away.) CDE might also end up getting mastered in one of those months.
 
IIrc, first month we were green 1/ bronze 1 and got some pretty great info on meridians that is useful at least up to green 4 from the monthly Elder lessons.
This second turn we nothing even though we were green 2/ bronze 1.
Hopefully being green 2 / bronze 2 will give us some new info on stuff that happens both on our level, and on the next one. Might be a whole new system, like meridian fusing was, or just an update to an existent one that makes it more efficient, better or somehow more. Like what the heck are advanced Art insights for domain slotting, and how we get them...
 
Anyway, Domains.

This is something we want to think about considering that we're going to be mastering FVM and FSS this month. What are we aiming for? What would good combinations of Domain slots be?

A problem here I think is that people get too often distracted by superficial elements like simplistic imagery or mechanical effects. The core of Domain development, however, it seems to me is as a character building exercise - and not in the mechanical sense. It is about forging one's Way. Piecing things together to form a life philosophy that governs how one sees the world, and how one approaches it.


So, what kind of ideas do people have here? Where would they like to aim?

I think discussing domain like this, without delving into mechanics, is very useful and interesting. Thank you for starting the discussion.

Camus and Absurdism seem perhaps to be relevant to Ling Qi to me?

That being said, I personally would prefer to discuss things in plain language and keep philosophical concepts more in the background, for the following reason: There is a thing that happens in actual philosophy where quite a lot of discussion breaks down into the meaning of specific words or concepts that differs between the individuals discussing, and that sort of thing happens even easier in a much less formal context like ours. This is bound to happen either way, but gets much easier if you introduce a lot of high-concept philosophy into the discussion, it encourages the sort of sidetracking where people argue whether or not FSS works as an expression of existentialism or not. (Not to mention that it is generally easy to pull certain philosophical concepts over things, like how every single cultivator is enough of an Übermensch to make Nietzsche's moustache quiver with excitement. These things have proven to be unhelpful in a discussion on this level, in my experience.)

Instead, I'd propose to try and keep language as simple and unambiguous as possible, I think it would help in keeping things focused on the larger picture and at least reduce distractions over definitions.
Now, to actually discuss things:

The points about loneliness are definitely interesting, yeah. One comment I would make though is that I don't think loneliness is something that Ling Qi actually likes. Rather, it is her dislike of that experience that has driven much of her behaviour in acquisition of friends. With that in mind, I would be skeptical of any path that looks as if it celebrates loneliness in relation to stealth for instance.

I think this is a very important point. The Home domain, in my opinion, stems from LQ's experience with a lack thereof - there is a strong desire in her to never fall back into loneliness and powerlessness again. This seems to be at the core of her domain, and worth discussing further.

Mmm, interesting read. Similar to above though I would raise the question of whether or not this is what Ling Qi actually wants? I would say that Qi looks for friends in large part because she sees having them as a source of safety. While loyal, however, she isn't really a protector. Not to say that she won't work to aid her friends, but protecting them isn't really part of her identity. Trying to hide them away to keep them safe would, I feel, be kind of a weird shift? I see her more about trying to come together with them so they can all be safer and happier.

Not sure I agree on this, I think LQ does have a strong impulse to protect her friends, only that a lot of her friends were or still are more powerful than her. A lot of interactions with Bai Meizhen spring to mind, where I always saw a strong desire to help her friend, and some frustration about the lack of ability to do so. Mutual benefit certainly plays a role here, seeing how much she has profited from the help of her friends as well, but I do see a lot of protectiveness in her, even if it sometimes gets in conflict with her survival instincts. Remember how the tournament ended for LQ? she didn't need to go all out on Sun Liling and get speared like a tuna, but she did it just on the off chance to give a little bit of extra edge to Meizhen.

Now, as I already mentioned, and prominently showcased in the Forest King interaction, there also is a prominent survival-oriented aspect to her, and I think that is where the stealth focus fits in, along with a lot of her general scrappiness and that hard-nosed "fight to survive" mentality where she extends little mercy towards foes. We have talked about duality before, I think this is the other side of the same coin, when the going gets tough, Ling Qi is willing to make hard decisions to keep her Home, her friends and family safe, even if her conscience will be plagued later.

So, to sum up my thoughts so far, I think there are two sides to the domain, on one side the social aspect, protection and defense, and on the other the survival and cold-heartedness of doing what needs to be done to insure the continued existence of her Home. A lot of our current arts already fit in that scheme, but I prefer to keep things general for now, as BN has pointed out, there are many more options to come, and this is not a mechanical discussion of domain slots.

I was thinking about how CDE could potentially be incorperated into the social domain for ideas similar to what I noted recently - the value of being informed about things and knowing about people etc. (also similar to a lesson we could take from the Dream Arc - not knowing what's going on is really problematic). I was somewhat leery of it however because CDE is also about curiosity, and I kinda feel that Ling Qi has a tendency to mono-focus on cultivation and the most efficient way to gain power in front of her rather than exploring and learning? Our minimal exploration last year is a case in point.

I think this is a good point, while I wouldn't call LQ incurious, she has a driven sort of curiosity, not the idle interest to know things of a scholar, but rather the willingness to take risks and face the unknown for rewards to further her goals. Curiosity as a means to power, if you will, and power itself is a means to secure her position and that of the people close to her. This last part perhaps deserves elaboration: I think, despite her laser focus and drive, LQ is not really power-hungry; she pursues power because the world is dangerous and full of powerful people, and the only way to not get pushed around is to become powerful yourself.

Mmm, I think that if we're slotting FSS then we'd very much be saying that the End is extremely important?

I would frame it as the end *making* things meaningful. It is because life is finite, and that ultimately everything will end and leave nothing, that what we do in the here and now is so important. There is no objective meaning of life out there for us to follow. The only thing we can do is to accept that, and forge our own meaning in spite of that.

To me, this fits with the above, the acknowledgement that the world is a harsh and dangerous place, and death is waiting - less inevitably than it is in the real world, mind you, but the danger of the various entities in this world makes up for that, so a bit of an undercurrent of threat makes sense to acknowledge - as something that the domain stands against, of course, not as danger and death being part of the domain. I do think it still fits into the scheme in that sense, though.


So, overall, I think that Ling Qi's past and her experiences in the sect do make a great background to build her domain on, since ultimately, perhaps also due to her history, LQ does not strike me as a particularly high-concept person - she cares little about philosophy or related larger concepts like Justice or Order, as we have seen through the lens of her various amusing interactions with Cai Renxiang. This might (and probably should) change as she grows more mature, but for now, a focus on her personal life experiences as a foundation for her domain seems just fine. In my opinion, this also includes the duality that Ling Qi expresses in many things, as discussed at length in previous posts. We will see what direction her growth will take, but I think the journey she has had so far, the dangers she faced and the friends she made are a good framework to fit her art suite into, and to draw insights from down the line.
 
Well, for a fun game here here are all our possible "minimum" domain configurations for Foundation:
  • Home + AM + FVM + FSS + TRF
  • Home + AM + FVM + FSS + SCS
  • Home + AM + FVM + FSS + CDE
  • Home + AM + FVM + TRF + SCS
  • Home + AM + FVM + TRF + CDE
  • Home + AM + FVM + SCS + CDE
And, if anyone cares, the non-FVM combos:
  • Home + AM + FSS + SCS + TRF
  • Home + AM + FSS + SCS + CDE
  • Home + AM + FSS + TRF + CDE
  • Home + AM + SCS + TRF + CDE
What kind of domains would these produce?

Some of my thoughts:
  • Home + AM + FVM + SCS + CDE: very hidden moon fairy? sort of feels like being this invisible seeker of secrets and treasures traveling around to find cool things and take them home?
  • Home + AM + FVM + FSS + CDE: weirdly philosophical in an "everything ends and the best response is to journey around, see the world, and learn lots of things" kinda way? Not sure how well that works...
 
On the whole Trickster thing, it seems to me that the simplest reading of what Ling Qi presents is:
-Ling Qi desires order in her life. She feels that an orderly society is how her friends and family would best thrive.
-Ling Qi believes chaos is the nature of things. Even if its structured and stable on high, things break down in the corners, and even if things are stable and unified, it will break down eventually.
-Ling Qi is willing to use trickster means to succeed.
--Corollary: Ling Qi despises being FORCED to use such means due to weakness.
-Ling Qi finds orderly means of success tedious and boring.
-Ling Qi enjoys success

I don't think it fits as the core of her domain, but it has a place there.
 
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