Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Anyway, Domains.

This is something we want to think about considering that we're going to be mastering FVM and FSS this month. What are we aiming for? What would good combinations of Domain slots be?

A problem here I think is that people get too often distracted by superficial elements like simplistic imagery or mechanical effects. The core of Domain development, however, it seems to me is as a character building exercise - and not in the mechanical sense. It is about forging one's Way. Piecing things together to form a life philosophy that governs how one sees the world, and how one approaches it.

For example, to understand Meizhen's Domain the best place to look is not in Qi's observations of her presence. The effects of her Domain are not irrelevant of course, but the most important place to look I think is her conversations with us about life philosophy.

Meizhen strongly believes in being feared. It's not about her having +10 to intimidate or whatever, it's that she believes that the best way to be a cultivator is to be an aristocratic icon of power and fear who no-one will dare challenge. It is her Way.

In many ways, I think that Domain slots being given quantified mechanical effects is kind of a distraction from what they're really about.

In addition, the strength of Domains is really important. They are not just "I think this Art taught me some valuable lessons" it's more "this Art speaks to me on a fundamental level and I want to live my life following these tenets". To make a medieval metaphor, mastering an Art is like reading the whole Bible, understanding it, and maybe taking some useful guidance from it. Slotting that Art is deciding to become a monk. Lots of arts can provide useful experience and skills without necessarily meaning we want to make them an integral part of our Way.

The question to ask ourselves is what kind of philosophy would we forge from different combinations of arts? What do we like? Where do we want to go? It's easy to look at individual arts and go "that's cool", but at the end of the day they have to come together as a coherent whole, and that requires us to actually think about the big picture.

For example, looking at FVM + FSS and our recent song fight, what I see is a kind of Existentialist philosophy? Everything ultimately Ends, and has no inherent meaning. However, the correct response is not to despair and give up, but to persevere and forge your own story anyway. It doesn't matter if it's going to end someday and have no greater meaning - what matters is that it's meaningful to you.

Building on that with, say, PLR + TRF + HDW then highlights what Ling Qi considers a fun meaningful life. Bringing friends together, supporting each other, and having fun. AM could highlight the importance of awareness of the Truth, and of knowing oneself in order to work out how to have a fulfilling life - as well as perhaps the importance of honest communication.

That's just one idea though, and there are lots of other possibilities that we should discuss. For example, sticking all those stealth and perception arts (SCS + MNO + DLF + CDE + HDE + AM) could be a very Jiao "invisible shadow seeking out all the secrets" kind of person. Personally not a huge fan, but it is a possibility.

So, what kind of ideas do people have here? Where would they like to aim?
I really like your idea for a domain as it keeps to the home message that our green breakthrough gave while also getting us out of that pidgin hole that solely keeping with the idea of home gave us.
 
I would like a duality between a warm fire for our friends (represented by arts like TRF or HDW), and a cold scary outside for our ennemies (FVM, SCS).
Mmm, I would suggest that SCS is philosophically irrelevant to that, not really being avoid fear or danger.

Similarly, I feel that's a misreading of FVM that gets distracted by the effects of the techs. If you read the art description, FVM is about perseverance and journeys, with the techs more being metaphorical manifestations of the trials along the way.

How FVM functions in combat isn't really what the song is about.
 
I don't think that Ling Qi has intentionally been scary or unwelcoming to people not on her side, it's more like they don't really exist unless they're a threat. If there's a blizzard outside her metaphysical home, then it's not because she put it there, but because it gave her bonuses to cultivation and oops she forgot that most people don't want to walk through a blizzard to talk to her.

Actually, now that I think of it, remember that we are the ones behind Ling Qi's actions, which shape the way that Yrs crafts her personality. How do WE interact with people? We want to keep Ling Qi's friends relatively in mind, we care about their pains, and we want to continue interacting with them. Are we really hostile to our enemies? Do we really have a policy of chilling them to the bone for the crime of even getting close? Or is the policy really trying to make friends with everyone who hasn't wronged us, even those who aren't very friendly (Bai, Zeqing)?
 
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fvm + fss = the end isn't important, its the journey that matters perhaps?
Mmm, I think that if we're slotting FSS then we'd very much be saying that the End is extremely important?

I would frame it as the end *making* things meaningful. It is because life is finite, and that ultimately everything will end and leave nothing, that what we do in the here and now is so important. There is no objective meaning of life out there for us to follow. The only thing we can do is to accept that, and forge our own meaning in spite of that.

Camus and Absurdism seem perhaps to be relevant to Ling Qi to me?
 
Mmm, I would suggest that SCS is philosophically irrelevant to that, not really being avoid fear or danger.

Similarly, I feel that's a misreading of FVM that gets distracted by the effects of the techs. If you read the art description, FVM is about perseverance and journeys, with the techs more being metaphorical manifestations of the trials along the way.

How FVM functions in combat isn't really what the song is about.
I feel like ignoring an Art's techs for the purposes of interpreting its domain impact is a mistake. The details of the mechanics probably don't matter much, but the flavor text and narrative really should play a role.

For example, lets look at Mist of the Vale:
Playing the first notes of the melancholy melody, the musician causes a light mist to roll forth from their instrument. The mist is filled with deceptive shadows and sounds, casting a pall over all within. The mist spreads to cover the range Close to the musician and may be extended out to Very Far, at the cost increasing the cost to the technique by 10 for each increment. The user may extend immunity too and benefits from the mist to up to five allies, increasing cost by 2 for each one.

Within the mist, foes find their senses confused, attacks against the musician or their allies often strike at phantoms, and seeking to escape the mist or advance upon the musician often result in meandering travelers reminiscent of the Travelers own wandering. In their confused state, they become vulnerable to the terrors which can reside in Vales far from civilization.
This tech has mechanical effects which probably don't matter with regards to domain, but it also have narrative flavor - that the people in the mist are lost, confused, and vulnerable.
 
I feel like ignoring an Art's techs for the purposes of interpreting its domain impact is a mistake. The details of the mechanics probably don't matter much, but the flavor text and narrative really should play a role.
Yes, but this has to be read in light of the art's philosophy I think. FVM is not about hiding in a fort covered in spikes or hurting people - it's about journeying through perilous trials and persevering.

We could imagine potential alternative arts: A song about a princess in a tower surrounded by sharks and monster filled woods and spikes all to keep unwanted suitors at bay. A song about a tyranical god who sends monsters and storms and famines down to beset the peasants. A song about the garden of the gods, hidden by mountains, surrounded by thorns and monsters to protect it from the filthy hands of mortals...

All such songs might have very similar combat applications, and be quite similar in use to FVM. They would, however, differ markedly in their underlying philosophy and message.
 
Not gonna longpost about it at this late hour but a few things about domains:
  1. We're about due an explanation on advanced insights which should tell us a hell of a lot more about what to expect from the building process. Take note that any plans made in the meantime lack that perspective.
  2. Domain building isn't something to settle for what's available on. The current set of arts we have access to is not and should not be considered the entire or majority pool of domain consideration worthy Arts. Between the Cai archive, whatever EPC7/8 bring, and higher Sect floors we'll have many more good options to build a coherent whole from.
  3. Considering Meizhen is fine, but our actual point of reference should be entities with complete domains; Shenhua and Elders on one hand and spirits like Xin and Zeqing on the other, to see both what we want to seek and what we want to avoid.
Also keep in mind we're building the basis for a future adult immortal here; childhood-shaped first instincts aren't immutable.
 
  • Considering Meizhen is fine, but our actual point of reference should be entities with complete domains; Shenhua and Elders on one hand and spirits like Xin and Zeqing on the other, to see both what we want to seek and what we want to avoid.
Yup, Shenhua is a good example too.
"I saw the worlds inefficiency," Cai Renxiang replied. "The tangled threads where want overrode need. Where systems constructed nigh wholly by self interest and greed left ragged holes in societies tapestry, and left thousands to languish unfulfilled. I saw the frayed weft of a city still reeling from a war of gods."

Things like this, and her authoritarianism are far more important to understanding her domain than that she has +9999 to Weaving and +9999 to glowing.

Or, for understanding Zeqing and FSS I'd suggest looking at our recent scene with her, e.g.
"Darkness and cold are two facets of a single crystal," Zeqing's voice murmured in her ear while the blizzard howled and Hanyi laughed. "They are absence, and emptiness, and the end of all things."
"I cannot understand fully your reasons for distress," the ice spirit replied, her blood red lips unmoving. "I can only say this. Take what you desire, and cling to it fiercely, because nothing is forever."
 
Anyway, Domains.

This is something we want to think about considering that we're going to be mastering FVM and FSS this month. What are we aiming for? What would good combinations of Domain slots be?

A problem here I think is that people get too often distracted by superficial elements like simplistic imagery or mechanical effects. The core of Domain development, however, it seems to me is as a character building exercise - and not in the mechanical sense. It is about forging one's Way. Piecing things together to form a life philosophy that governs how one sees the world, and how one approaches it.

For example, to understand Meizhen's Domain the best place to look is not in Qi's observations of her presence. The effects of her Domain are not irrelevant of course, but the most important place to look I think is her conversations with us about life philosophy.

Meizhen strongly believes in being feared. It's not about her having +10 to intimidate or whatever, it's that she believes that the best way to be a cultivator is to be an aristocratic icon of power and fear who no-one will dare challenge. It is her Way.

In many ways, I think that Domain slots being given quantified mechanical effects is kind of a distraction from what they're really about.

In addition, the strength of Domains is really important. They are not just "I think this Art taught me some valuable lessons" it's more "this Art speaks to me on a fundamental level and I want to live my life following these tenets". To make a medieval metaphor, mastering an Art is like reading the whole Bible, understanding it, and maybe taking some useful guidance from it. Slotting that Art is deciding to become a monk. Lots of arts can provide useful experience and skills without necessarily meaning we want to make them an integral part of our Way.

The question to ask ourselves is what kind of philosophy would we forge from different combinations of arts? What do we like? Where do we want to go? It's easy to look at individual arts and go "that's cool", but at the end of the day they have to come together as a coherent whole, and that requires us to actually think about the big picture.

For example, looking at FVM + FSS and our recent song fight, what I see is a kind of Existentialist philosophy? Everything ultimately Ends, and has no inherent meaning. However, the correct response is not to despair and give up, but to persevere and forge your own story anyway. It doesn't matter if it's going to end someday and have no greater meaning - what matters is that it's meaningful to you.

Building on that with, say, PLR + TRF + HDW then highlights what Ling Qi considers a fun meaningful life. Bringing friends together, supporting each other, and having fun. AM could highlight the importance of awareness of the Truth, and of knowing oneself in order to work out how to have a fulfilling life - as well as perhaps the importance of honest communication.

That's just one idea though, and there are lots of other possibilities that we should discuss. For example, sticking all those stealth and perception arts (SCS + MNO + DLF + CDE + HDE + AM) could be a very Jiao "invisible shadow seeking out all the secrets" kind of person. Personally not a huge fan, but it is a possibility.

So, what kind of ideas do people have here? Where would they like to aim?
When i read your post i made mental connection with the way that we already took in the form of Eight Pace Ceremony. Look at what patrons we chose here - Grinning Moon and Hiding Moon and, giving a chance, now i think it would be Dreaming Moon as well. For me they associates with keywords 'Stealth', 'Perceptiveness' and 'Presence'.
1.Stealth very well describes Way of LQ before sect and stays as one of her strong points later. Staying hidden means staying safe but also means don't trusting anyone and staying alone. And LQ was alone for a very large part of her life. Even now when she has close friends and acquaintances loneliness is still large part of her mental state. So Stealth and Loneliness.
2.Perceptiveness is a means for investigation, exploration and discovery, it is a tool for curios soul. And LQ is a very curious girl. And unlike previous point it was wholly readers "fault". Readers nudge her to try many different weapons, every Art in her disposal and, of coarse, every trial and exploration that she can. Firstly it was Argent vent, than Zeqing's Peak and many sites after that, how many times she was on hunts with Han Jian's group, how many times she participated in investigations of Sun Liling's group. It may no seem like very strong theme like with stealth and loneliness, especially because aside from AM we didn't had relevant arts, but it is a very consistent and persistent point through all of time that LQ spent in sect. She latched on her new life like monkey and grab to herself every shiny that she sees, it doesn't matter if shiny was in someones bag or on behind trap formation on a lake cave bottom, even if it means consistently beating her fear.
3.Presence, our last trend, it means connections and, in contrast with Stealth, speaks 'here i am, notice me!' It begins with our flute, the last thing that LQ had from her mother. That and her music was her last connection to past. And then we receive FVM. Well if that wasn't most important turning point in LQ Way, than i don't know what is. If not for this melody than now we may be were on path of archer, or maybe stealthy spy who strikes her victims with knife from behind... here is many variants. But what happens is that LQ started seriously practice with her flute with music. And music helps her to make connections with spirits: Zeqing, Sixiang even that one dragon (what was his name). And now that we have better skill with flute and more songs at our disposal music helps us make connections to many many new people making Music and Presence even more important for LQ Way.

So, it's only my opinion but what do you think? Stealth and Presence seems contradictory together, but LQ is contradictory and uncertain girl. And she is still growing in more than one senses.
 
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I do feel like Meizhen is the best example for us to pick apart domain growth. After all we have been there through her entire journey in the sect. Elders domains are not super helpful because we have no idea how they got to that stage. Even CRX is not super helpful because her domain seems to be a much more subdue affair. I don't think there has been a point where we can point to and say that is her domain expect perhaps the fact that she glows a little brighter when she is a little bit happier.

Meizhen is useful data point for us because we know what her domain is explicitly. We have watched it grow and any changes we see to it in the future we will be able to more easily identify. It is also helpful because Meizhen is one stage above us in Green so we sort of have a heads up when big domain shifts or powerups can happen by watching her.
 
Yes, but this has to be read in light of the art's philosophy I think. FVM is not about hiding in a fort covered in spikes or hurting people - it's about journeying through perilous trials and persevering.
Ehh, while I broadly and in specific agree with all your points, I think you're underestimating the degree the [Home] element will distort the arts' proffered insights?

Argent Mirror, for example, had as its message: self-reflection and self-honesty leads to an immovable and unchangeable spirit. However, offered insights were [Safe Space for Insecure Family] and [Be Wary of Lies from Non-Family]. The perception aura was even only derived from the capstone tech, as that was the only place where Argent Mirror gave allies any benefits whatsoever.

With FVM in particular, though, I think the imposition of Ling Qi's critical interpretation to FVM's message is more important. With FVM, Ling Qi has imposed her own street rat background into the story of the song, and why she developed into a person who would have a [Home] Domain in the first place. That is to say, when it comes to considering what insights FVM would give, I'm not sure if they wouldn't be along the lines of [The Familyless have Nothing] and [Family gains Value in the the Face of Hardship], because Ling Qi imposed onto FVM her own narrative of deprivation after running away giving rise to her drive to regain familial connections.

I don't think there has been a point where we can point to and say that is her domain expect perhaps the fact that she glows a little brighter when she is a little bit happier.
Actually, I'm pretty sure she got a perception buff as her base Domain effect; her light aura was roiling every time she was feeling strong emotions, and I think that every time Ling Qi noted Cai Renxiang was scrutinizing something, her light aura intensified? Base on the sole tech we had text for, it seemed like she's basing her Domain aesthetics on light perceiving everything/destroying all lies.
 
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Actually, I'm pretty sure she got a perception buff as her base Domain effect; her light aura was roiling every time she was feeling strong emotions, and I think that every time Ling Qi noted Cai Renxiang was scrutinizing something, her light aura intensified? Base on the sole tech we had text for, it seemed like she's basing her Domain aesthetics on light perceiving everything/destroying all lies.
But that is sort of my point. We can only guess. We know what Meizhen domain is because she pretty much straight out told us. If Cai adds a more overt aspect to her domain we will be able to pick that up right away. For now though we sort of are just stuck picking apart Meizhen growth because it has the most overt effects that we can see the most easily in this story.

Of course looking at and getting information about domain growth from all of our other friends will be valuable. However Cai and Meizhen are the only ones ahead of us while all of our other friends are behind us. Information about LanLan's domain growth will be of little use to our domain growth because we have already reached those milestones. Meizhen's domain will simply be the easiest to watch because it is the most overt and we know for a fact what is based on.
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure she got a perception buff as her base Domain effect; her light aura was roiling every time she was feeling strong emotions, and I think that every time Ling Qi noted Cai Renxiang was scrutinizing something, her light aura intensified? Base on the sole tech we had text for, it seemed like she's basing her Domain aesthetics on light perceiving everything/destroying all lies.

I think the word you're looking for is 'revelation' as in 'stripping the lies from the world'.
 
For example, looking at FVM + FSS and our recent song fight, what I see is a kind of Existentialist philosophy? Everything ultimately Ends, and has no inherent meaning. However, the correct response is not to despair and give up, but to persevere and forge your own story anyway. It doesn't matter if it's going to end someday and have no greater meaning - what matters is that it's meaningful to you.

Building on that with, say, PLR + TRF + HDW then highlights what Ling Qi considers a fun meaningful life. Bringing friends together, supporting each other, and having fun. AM could highlight the importance of awareness of the Truth, and of knowing oneself in order to work out how to have a fulfilling life - as well as perhaps the importance of honest communication.

That's just one idea though, and there are lots of other possibilities that we should discuss. For example, sticking all those stealth and perception arts (SCS + MNO + DLF + CDE + HDE + AM) could be a very Jiao "invisible shadow seeking out all the secrets" kind of person. Personally not a huge fan, but it is a possibility.

So, what kind of ideas do people have here? Where would they like to aim?
Personally, I think that SCS has a lot of potential for Ling Qi in the home/safety aspect of her domain. Here is the flavor text of SCS:
Darkness has no form nor presence, and so those who master it learn to cast these things aside, and embrace the absence and silence of the empty night. This movement art focuses on understanding of this rare element allowing the user to move from place to place with little regard for what lies between there present position and their goal.
It's about understanding darkness and embracing said darkness. So... how does Ling Qi see darkness? What does it mean to her?. We can get a hint from the possible Domain choices that Ling Qi had when we began constructing our domain.
[] The little village, full of little people and shadows that would keep her safe.
Here, we see that Ling Qi associates shadows and darkness with safety. Darkness provides a measure of safety for her, for in the darkness is when Ling Qi is the most mobile, most secure in her power, and where it is hardest to find and hurt her. This is discussed symbolically after our fight with Sun Liling here:
In the end, the shadow never forgot her first lesson. To move was to live, and though she had learned to seek higher things, the core of her had not changed.
For Ling Qi, movement is life and darkness provides her with unfettered movement. My argument then, is, that for Ling Qi, to embrace darkness is to embrace comfort and safety. What this means for SCS is that darkness is not a means for us to be stealthy, darkness is not a means of being fast, darkness is not a means of avoiding damage, for Ling Qi darkness is safety and comfort and the stealth, movement, and dodge flow from that safety and comfort.

When we are stealthed our opponents cannot strike us down, when we are able to move unfettered we can avoid unfavorable confrontations, and when we are able to dodge our opponents cannot hit us. I feel then, that for a hypothetical domain arrangement a combination of PLR-TRF-HDW-SCS provides us with a story. A story that we bring friends and family to revel in the darkness and shelter them from the storms seeking to batter us down.

While we could interpret SCS as a stealth insight, I think it is more likely to be interpreted as a darkness insight. And it is from the comforting embrace of darkness and shadow that our movement, dodge, and stealth derive from.
 
it's about journeying through perilous trials and persevering.
It's also about loneliness and isolation, so we may not want to slot it based on whether that's a strong enough part of it's themes to make it clash with the Home core of our domain.(I would consider an empty house to clash with Ling Qi's motivations enough to make it invalid, even if there is not an actual thematic issue. No matter how emotionally moving/powerful/coherent that theme may be, I don't want it.)
 
Mmm, I would suggest that SCS is philosophically irrelevant to that, not really being avoid fear or danger.

Similarly, I feel that's a misreading of FVM that gets distracted by the effects of the techs. If you read the art description, FVM is about perseverance and journeys, with the techs more being metaphorical manifestations of the trials along the way.

How FVM functions in combat isn't really what the song is about.

I agree for SCS, but FVM is a travel trough a dangerous vale.

It speaks of mist covered valleys hidden deep in the mountains and the mischievous and hungry spirits that wait in the dark,

The dangerous vale is as important if not even more so than the perseverance of the traveller. It's even the first way it is described.

Now it's true that ling qi might not see it that way, prefering to it the loss and loneliness part, thay she understand far more than the vale itself, but even so, a loneliness insight sound like exactly what I would want for the outside part of her domain. "The ouside is lonely" in opposition to the inside which is where she put her friends (not in that way you perverts :D)
 
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I really think Ling Qi should go the trickster path with her domain.
Just not sure how to do it mechanically.
Mind effects through music, stealth and chaos, lean heavily into grinning moon and dreaming moon stuff i guess.

I think summons should be part of that, what better way to chaos pandemonium than through loads and loads of spirits causing distractions.
 
I really think Ling Qi should go the trickster path with her domain.
Just not sure how to do it mechanically.
Mind effects through music, stealth and chaos, lean heavily into grinning moon and dreaming moon stuff i guess.

I think summons should be part of that, what better way to chaos pandemonium than through loads and loads of spirits causing distractions.
But I don't think that is really who Ling Qi is though. Ling Qi doesn't seem really all that keen on causing a bunch of chaos. She seems much more concerned with making sure that her friends are safe in times of chaos then causing more chaos. We see this in Thunderdome when she went back and helped Meizhen and how devested she was when she learned that team SuSu got hurt. Then there is the first fight with Cai when she went and tried to help LanLan instead of Meizhen who was safe. Then the big return of Sun she was more concerned with her friends then causing more chaos.

A domain is not just more tricks you can put into a fight. It is who you are. What is most important in the cultivator's life. What makes them tick. Chaos just does not seem to be really important to Ling Qi.
 
Ling Qi protects her friends and family, yes, ofcourse, they are her friends and family.
Being a trickster is not just causing chaos in an already chaotic world, it's about disrupting order when it becomes too much, of teaching (even if only by poor example), and even protecting (by causing chaos among those who would bring others harm).
Trickster can be benevolent figure as much as malevolent.

Think of the previous quest, of how Ling Qi was accused of not having fun anymore after coming to the sect, of how much she enjoyed her teachings by Xin's hubbie and the trickery she did, of her joining the moons revelries.
Of how Ling Qi won the early round during the turnament by simply causing chaos among her opponents to a point where someone actually ran down a cliff.

Yes, Ling Qi cares deeply of her friends and family, and acts to protect them, but she does not need to do so through direct confrontation.
 
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Ling Qi protects her friends and family, yes, ofcourse, they are her friends and family.
Being a trickster is not just causing chaos in an already chaotic world, it's about disrupting order when it becomes too much, of teaching (even if only by poor example), and even protecting (by causing chaos among those who would bring others harm).
Trickster can be benevolent figure as much as malevolent.

Think of the previous quest, of how Ling Qi was accused of not having fun anymore after coming to the sect, of how much she enjoyed her teachings by Xin's hubbie and the trickery she did, of her joining the moons revelries.
Of how Ling Qi won the early round during the turnament by simply causing chaos among her opponents to a point where someone actually ran down a cliff.

Yes, Ling Qi cares deeply of her friends and family, and acts to protect them, but she does not need to do so through direct confrontation.

When has Ling Qi purposely created chaos for the sake of chaos though? Your original post stated that you wanted Ling Qi to be about chaos. You did not state using that chaos to protect people. Your domain idea was solely the idea of chaos.

I really think Ling Qi should go the trickster path with her domain.
Just not sure how to do it mechanically.
Mind effects through music, stealth and chaos, lean heavily into grinning moon and dreaming moon stuff i guess.

I think summons should be part of that, what better way to chaos pandemonium than through loads and loads of spirits causing distractions.

You state about the trickster path. To me the trickster path is very clear. It is not the path of being a teacher. It is not the path of disrupting order when it becomes too much. It is not the path of protecting. Being a trickster is the path of Loki. Causing pain and humiliation to anyone he could. Loki tricked everyone. He didn't care who you were. Loki just wanted to trick everyone and prove how smart he was. That is not what Ling Qi is about. She cares deeply about her friends and would never want to cause them harm or embarrassment just to prove a point.

You state about how Ling Qi was accused of not having fun anymore in the sect. This scene is in Thunder dome redux.

"Hm, well, that's a hard question," The figure mused, tapping a finger thoughtfully against her lips. "I'm you of course, but also not really? You wouldn't understand," the older-her shrugged. "As for what I want… I guess you could say I'm curious? You aren't exactly what I was expecting. The determination is good, but you've gotten so uptight. You hardly do anything fun anymore."

Ling Qi narrowed her eyes. "I don't know what you're talking…" her thoughts seemed to clear a bit for a moment, and a spark of understanding took root. "I don't have any reason to waste my time doing things like that anymore."

Other her frowned back at her, crouched amid the flowers. "That's a lie. You just don't want to look bad in front of your little friends," she accused. "It's still there, you know. The part of you that enjoyed the challenge of theft and trickery. Don't lie. You aren't happy just letting things go either. What happened to your fangs little rat? Have the snake and the tiger plucked them out?"

Ling Qi shook her head, remembered indignation from the slights she had suffered bubbling back up. "It's… not important, and I have too much to do. They aren't worth my time. Not anymore."

"You're afraid," the moon spirit replied, eyes no longer blue, but rather solid pools of silver. "Afraid of what others will think of you," she said, sounding disappointed. "Afraid of being who you are. Do you remember what you felt when you saw that boy's face as he fell into the well?"

Here she is not really being accused of not doing anything fun anymore, she is being accused of being afraid of what others think of her. It does talk about trickery but that is not what Ling Qi enjoys. She does not enjoy tricking people, she enjoys the challenge of the trick not the trick itself.

Let us go to the different parts of Elder Jiao's training and see if Ling Qi did indeed have fun on any of them.

"Well, at least you are not wholly blind still," Elder Jiao said dryly from where he now sat, or rather lay, leaning against the arm of the divan. His bald head was bare today, and he wore robes in an absolutely hideous shade of yellow that hurt her eyes to look at for too long.

"Greetings Elder Jiao," Ling Qi replied hastily, straightening her back and clasping her hands to bow respectfully to the older man. "Thank you very much for granting me the honor of your time."

He looked down at her with a neutral expression and then sighed, waving one bony hand dismissively. "Yes, I think that will be enough simpering for the moment. Get off the floor and take a proper seat girl. The chairs are not entirely for decoration."

"Of course Honored Elder," Ling Qi replied, rising quickly to her feet and moving to do as instructed settling herself in the nearest seat a bit nervously. She still wasn't comfortable with formality, and Elder Jiao's lax attitude made it hard to judge what was appropriate.

He watched her settle into the seat and smooth her gown nervously with her hands, a spark of amusement in his odd eyes. "You have decided what you desire to be instructed in I hope?" He asked, turning his gaze to study his fingernails, seemingly having lost interest in her.
"I had hoped to receive your instruction in the ways of improving my perception of the world," Ling Qi said, inclining her head respectfully. "More specifically… I have had trouble with unraveling the trails and secrets left behind by my enemies and was hoping for your insight in investigating such matters."

He looked up with a hint of interest. "Is that so? Not quite what I expected, but then again, I suppose you are playing at being half a spymaster for that Cai child, aren't you?"

"I am honored by your attention," Ling Qi replied, not quite daring to raise her head. "Yes, I have been performing a few small tasks for lady Cai. I have my own interests to seek as well though," she added pausing as she considered her next words. "The Grinning Moon has given me a task."

"Is that so?" He asked, not sounding particularly impressed. "And your second request?"

Ling Qi hesitated a moment, then drew the bundle of bags she had looted from the barbarian shaman out of her ring. "I humbly request instruction in the formation arts, so that I may break the seals upon these. The script is very complex, and I worry that my current skill is insufficient."

The Elder squinted at the unassuming hide bags in her lap, expression souring. "...You were the one involved in that little mess weren't you?" He mused aloud, straightening his posture a bit. "I suppose it speaks well for your luck that you are sitting here today and not lying buried in our new lake," he said in an irritated tone. "Well I suppose Sister Ying would not have allowed you to keep that prize if she sensed anything truly dangerous within," he added under his breath.

Ling Qi frowned, looking at the man in consternation. "Sister Ying?" she muttered under her breath, he looked far her junior, though his qi was near nonexistant to her senses.

Unsurprisingly, the Elder heard her and let out an amused snort. "Girl, if you still believe the appearance of age means anything, you have not been paying attention. Shi Ying looks as she does because she has always been a nosy old woman, even as an unblossomed girl," he said dryly. "I too remain as I always have, a refined gentleman of impeccable taste and charm."

It was a true monument to her self control that Ling Qi managed to keep her expression utterly neutral in the wake of that statement. Her gaze did not flick down to the monstrosity of a ministers robe the man wore. Not even for a moment.

She worried that he could sense her thoughts though, given the look he gave her during the uncomfortable silence that stretched in the aftermath of his words. "Hmph, children these days," he grumbled. An instant later he was standing in front of her, less than a meter away. She did not see him move, she did not see his form blur, or even feel a fluctuation of qi. He simply changed positions from one moment to the next. "Put that away and come along then, girl," he said neutrally. "I shall be assigning you some coursework to determine your formations skill for future lessons, so we will begin with honing your observational skills."

"Of course Elder Jiao," Ling Qi responded quickly hurrying to stand up and dismiss the bags back into her ring before following the older man already striding toward the entrance to the cave.

In the hours that followed, she was forced to strain her senses, and recall details far in excess of what she normally noticed. The number of leaves on a particular branch or the exact placement of stones on the side of the road were merely the beginning. To an outsider it might seem like she was simply following the man on an easy stroll through the upper mountain, answering a constant stream of questions, but to her, it quickly grew painful as she was forced to channel qi through her eyes and ears for far longer than before, until her head throbbed and her dantian grew empty.

In the end trying to track and catalogue every detail of her environment left her feeling bleary eyed and exhausted by the time the Elder waved her off and vanished, leaving her with only a thick workbook full of formations problems and questions to be completed by the day after next.

All too soon though, the time for her lessons with the Elder drew near, and she had to withdraw, she would have to continue observing and investigating in the afternoons to follow.

She was a bit nervous about today's lessons after all, she would be turning in the workbook the Elder had assigned her, and given the number of problems she had failed to answer or solve, she wasn't feeling confident about getting his approval.

That feeling only grew as she spent minutes sitting stiffly in one of the plush seats lining the room, watching the grey skinned man page lazily through the book. She was certain he was doing it on purpose to wind her up, there was no way the man really needed that much time to examine her work. She kept her gaze on her own lap rather than on the room around her; with the exception of the painting of Xin, the decorations changed every day, and today the hanging depicted disturbing images of twisted, misshapen spirits against backdrops of stars and disquieting underground vistas that hurt her eyes to look at.

Minutes ticked by in silence, and she could do little but endure and think. Su Ling had spoken to her earlier this morning, asking if she would be training at the vent. She was happy to find one of her friends seeking her out for once, and even more glad to have one of her training partners back. She was looking forward to spending time with her after this lesson.

"Your technical proficiency is somewhat lacking," the Elder's dry voice shook her from her thoughts. "And I cannot call any of your solutions, such as they are, inspired. Nor can I find among your work any particular specialization." His tone was neutral and bored. "What in the world do you want?"

She hunched her shoulders defensively. "My apologies for the penmanship. I will take more time in the future," she responded, even though she had taken more time than usual. "I'm afraid I do not know how to answer such a broad question though," a bit of irritation slipped in despite her best efforts, and she winced out how snippy her words sounded.

He scoffed, but thankfully did not sound offended, indeed, when she chanced a glance upward, she thought he looked a bit amused. "Then consider the context of my words, child" he replied, making the book vanish from his hands in a swirl of shadow. "What do you seek from the formation arts. I would hope you are not wasting my time here. Your skill is sufficient for day to day minutiae already."

Ling Qi hesitated a moment. "...Honored Elder," she began carefully. "I admit, most of my interest is in breaking and bypassing formations rather than crafting them," she admitted. "...You recall the bags I showed you the first day?"

"I do, I am hardly senile yet," Elder Jiao replied dryly, leaning back against the wall where he sat on the divan. "Is that truly all?" He asked, raising one hairless brow. "Do you find the formation arts so uninteresting?"

She was silent again, wary of the attention he was giving her, and the slight undercurrent of danger in the air. The atmosphere of the room filled her with nervousness. "Not as such," she replied, picking her words carefully. "They are versatile and broadly useful, but nothing I have been able to acquire is useful in the immediate sense," she admitted. "I just have so many things to do that spending time learning individual arrays seems…" she trailed off, not sure how to put it well.

He regarded her coolly for a moment before snorting. "Well, not an unexpected answer. The sort of arrays available in the archive are hardly the sort of thing to compete against the ability to shoot lightning from one's eyes."

Ling Qi blinked. "Is there an art like that in the archive?" she questioned curiously.

"I would not suggest it," he replied airily. "Very unstable, and difficult to aim besides. It can give the user rather terrible migraines as well." he flicked his sleeve dismissively. "The formation arts are a thing of infinite complexity… but its masters are not prone to sharing."

"So, the arrays in the archives..." Ling Qi said slowly. "They're just the things everyone knows, aren't they?"

"Quite so," Elder Jiao said with a chuckle. "Things that are used so commonly that no one is going to hide them. That is not to say that you cannot advance in the art using those materials however. Can you tell me how?"

Ling Qi frowned, her expression souring. "...You have to create them yourself, don't you, using the primers available."

"Or convince a master to teach you, yes," he replied. "I will inform you now that I have no inclination to do such."

Ling Qi smiled bitterly, the reminder that this was a limited training course was hardly welcome. "Of course, Honored Elder," she replied, inclining her head. "I would be happy merely to receive your insights into the foundations of the art."

He eyed her for a moment consideringly and then flicked his billowing sleeve again. This time, she had to hastily raise her hands to catch the scroll and brush case he had tossed at her. "Then pay close attention, child. I will not repeat myself."

Ling Qi hastily moved to unroll the blank scroll and prepare herself to take notes. She absolutely would not waste this.

Elder Jiao was, for all his irreverence, obviously an expert in this. She could barely keep up with his words on the interactions between the basic characters and the functions of their components… as well as the ways in which the characters could be altered in order to nullfiy or bypass their effects.

For the next few hours there was no sound except that of his voice and her brush, and numbers and characters danced behind her eyes by the time she staggered out of the cave. His words had given her inspiration though, and she fell upon the bags the moment she got home.

Here in the first week of Elder Jiao's lessons I do not find anything mentioning the word or even the idea of fun. In fact pain was asscoicted with this first lesson as Ling Qi stretched her qi sense as far as she could. Now onto the next week!

She still managed to land on her feet, wincing as she rubbed the top of her head, which throbbed with the force of the impact. She peered warily through the gloomy room to see who had startled her so. It took only a moment to recognize the person in question, her portrait had been staring at her all week after all.

Xin stood beside her seat with a bemused expression, and one hand on her hip. She wore a gown of dark blue and black which glittered with starry light at her every movement. Her white hair was put up in an elaborate updo though pinned in place with glittering onyx pins and jewelry. "Feeling a little wound up dear?" She asked compassionately, though Ling Qi could see the twinkle of humor in her red eyes.

Ling Qi lowered her hand as she got her breathing back under control, and did her best not to glower at the older woman… spirit. "My apologies," she said with a bow. "I was only startled by your presence honored…"

Xin clicked her tongue and… for lack of a better word, flickered, appearing directly in front of Ling Qi to peer down at her. Had the woman been tall enough to do that before? "Do not be like that now young lady," she admonished, examining the point where Ling Qi had banged her head. "There is no call to speak to me so formally."

"Ah… sorry?" Ling Qi tried instead, thrown off balance as she felt the woman's cold hand come to rest on top of her head, washing away the minor ache with a feeling like cold water being trickled down her neck. "Why are you here?" she blurted, feeling tongue tied in the woman's presence. "I mean… did something happen with Elder Jiao?"

Xin took a step back, examining her with a critical eye. It made Ling Qi feel vaguely childish, like it was her mother standing in front of her, checking to see if she had torn one of her gowns. "Oh, he got a little delayed is all," she replied dismissively, finally looking up to meet Ling Qi's gaze with her own slightly luminescent one. "You have grown so well, haven't you," she said warmly. "I can hardly compare you the skinny, dim spark you were when last we met."

"Thank you?" Ling Qi said, feeling uncomfortable at the examination. It was true that she was no longer quite so malnourished, and she had grown much stronger. "I… you're looking well too?" she tried, only to remember Jiao's words at the end of the test. "Ah, I'm sorry if I caused you any trouble."

"It was nothing dear," she responded easily, waving her hand carelessly to brush off the apology. "Becoming a voice for my greater self is merely uncomfortable at worst, and you have grown for it," she continued, her gaze drifting downward to fix on Ling Qi's stomach, or rather she suspected, her dantian. "While I admit I had a little hope of poaching you for myself. The Grinning Moon will not treat you poorly though."

Right, Xin was an aspect of the New Moon, Ling Qi thought, it made sense that she could tell what choice she had made. "I hope not to fail in meeting her expectations," she replied agreeably. "I did consider your offer strongly as well though."

Xin looked pleased, raising her eyes back to Ling Qi's face. "I suppose we will see, you are hardly ready to choose a Way properly yet regardless," she mused. "Your still in that experimenting stage," she added impishly. "Trying anything and everything, your spirit is quite muddled as of yet."

Ling Qi's expression grew concerned as she looked down, as if to examine herself. "...Is that bad?" She asked cautiously. "And what do you mean about choosing a Way?"

"Hardly, you haven't found your true drive yet, which is hardly unusual for your age," Xin replied reassuringly. "As for a Way, all cultivators must eventually choose the concept which defines them, it is impossible to advance beyond what you call cyan without…"

"XIN," Ling Qi flinched as Elder Jiao's voice boomed through the cavern, rattling the furniture, the shadows in the room roiled and swelled, tendrils of absolute darkness, opaque even to her vision writhing across every surface as the light of the lantern flickered wildly. Worse still were the eyes, wide and glaring, gleaming like kaleidoscopes, that opened by the dozen across the shadows in the room.

"Oh bother. I really thought that would hold him for a bit longer than this," the spirit sighed, resting her cheek in her hand, but seeming otherwise unperturbed. Ling Qi shot her an incredulous look.

"Twelve layers," the elders voice no longer rattled the furniture, but it was still painfully loud as the shadow of the divan boiled upward, bubbling like a pillar of tar as it took on Elder Jiao's features. He ignored her entirely in favor of glaring at Xin. "Why would you leave a twelve layered dream cage around the workshop you insufferable woman!"

Ling Qi quietly scuttled off to the side, not wanting to be in the Elder's line of sight, his qi was nearly suffocating as it was.

Xin crossed her arms, turning a frown on the Elder. "Do not take that tone with me, and cease the dramatics, you'll scare the poor girl to death."

Ling Qi hunched her shoulders, instinctively trying to appear small as the Elder glanced her way… and let out an irritated huff, the twisted reaching shadows receding along with the suffocating weight of his qi. "Did it occur to you just to ask if you wanted to accompany me?" He said pointedly to Xin, still sounding quite irritated.

"Is it not my duty as a wife to ensure that my husband does not grow lax?" Xin asked flippantly.

He stared at her for a moment, unmoving, unbreathing, utterly still, and then turned to Ling Qi. "I," he declared. "Am ignoring you," he said as if handing out a proclamation from on high. "You," he continued, pointing at Ling Qi. "Will also be ignoring her, or this lesson will end."

"That is hardly fair," Xin protested. "Come now, it was not that bad."

"Which of my teachings do you seek this week, Disciple," Jiao continued airily, as if he hadn't heard her.

Ling Qi glanced between the two, feeling terribly off kilter. Somehow, her image of the Sect's Elders had been changed in a fundamental way. SHe fumbled a bit, trying to remember her rehearsed speech. "I… that is… I was hoping for the honored Elders advice on the matters of retrieving enemy resources from guarded locations or containers, as well as their person. If…"

The grey skinned man gave her a flat look. "You are asking me to tutor you in the arts of thievery. Is that truly what you want to ask?"

Ling Qi looked down, shuffling her feet a little, ignoring Xin's laugh. "...Yes," she said in a small voice.

"My, what an insightful girl," Xin said, sounding smug.

Jiao ignored her utterly and merely palmed his face for a moment. "You know, why not. Come disciple," he replied, flickering from the divan to the doorway.

"What are we doing?" Ling Qi asked, hurrying after him, and slipping from her formal speech. She also cast an apologetic look at Xin, who drifted after them, no longer pretending to walk.

"Live targets are required for this training," Jaio replied evenly. "You shall be testing yourself against your fellows at my instruction. You will of course, be required to deal with the fallout of failure on your own. You will not mention your training."

Ling Qi grimaced. She really should have expected something like this. She supposed she would just have to do her best to avoid ending up in trouble.

What followed was… tense, incredibly so. Elder Jiao would set her a task, like pilfering stones or pills from a disciple, or slipping into a home unnoticed and planting tokens in specific locations, with nary a hint of advice, and only a few casual pointers for improvement in the aftermath. It ramped up quickly. It ramped up quickly, as they proceeded to the part of the mountain where many of the older disciples lived apart. She switched the contents of people's bags, broke locks, planted pills and tokens in bedrooms and bathrooms, rearranged furniture and knick knacks in the instants when their owners were out of the room.


...And she managed without getting caught once, even when he commanded something ridiculous, like replacing a girls hairpins from her dressing table without her noticing, while the girl was putting them in.

Her success did seem to put the man in a better mood at least, and with each success, his advice on improving her cultivation of the more larcenous parts of sable crescent step grew more useful. Xin was encouraging as well, but sadly she had to ignore the spirit. Xin did not seem like she took offense though, focused as she was on needling Elder Jiao, who ignored her every attempt with great dignity.

It was, overall, quite a useful evening.

...Even if the news which reached her later of a spree paintbombs, surprise hairdyes, and other prankish things, as well as fights breaking out over stolen property made her hope desperately that no one ever discovered what she had been doing. She knew those tokens he kept handing her were suspicious.

Here in week two of Elder Jiao's lessons we get the first real test of trickery, or of at least stealth. Yet she does not describe it as fun only tense and worrying as she hopes no one finds out about what she did. On to week 3!

Matters with Elder Jiao were a little more difficult, once the stressful cultivation of Argent Mirror was done, they moved swiftly on to the second half of her requested lesson plans. It was rather less… childish than the last exercise. Namely because instead of being put into a dream state he simply sent her to a heavily locked and trapped room which steadily sapped her qi, forcing her to try and escape before the drain knocked her unconscious.

It gave her a new appreciation for the many many options she had given her ability to fit through tiny spaces, but it also taught her that her abilities were not foolproof, she couldn't exactly disable snares located in spaces too small for her to materialize in after all.

She could feel her understanding of Sable Crescent step growing by the hour as she worked through the ever changing gauntlets. Ling Qi could tell that she was nearing mastery of the technique.

This week has by far the least information but it is clear that from the context that she is not having fun in these rooms. Also she is not tricking people here simply trying to get out of the next gauntlet. There are no people in these rooms so no trickery happening. On to week 4!

Jiao's expression was flat and stony as he ignored his giggling wife. "...So you have. What will you do with your final few days of training then?"

"I was hoping," Ling Qi began, even as she glanced uncomfortably at Xin "I was hoping you could instruct me on the nature of spirits… and how to further my understanding of Eight Phase Ceremony."

Jiao sighed, even as Xin grinned. "Of course you do," the man grumbled. "Fine."


These lessons were much less stressful thankfully, and overseen as often by Xin as by the Elder himself, granting her insights into the way spirits behaved even as she refined her ability to take in qi from the night sky. Soon enough though, they came to an end, and the prickly Elder bade her goodbye for the last time.

She had made a… mostly good impression, maybe?

So I skipped most of the scene with Xin because it had nothing to do with training or trickery and more dealing with the nature of spirits. But once again no real trickery happening here. Simply conversations into the manner of spirits and the intake of stellar qi.

So after reviewing all four weeks of training of Elder Jiao I could not find a single instance that would jump out at me and say "Wow Ling Qi is really having fun at these lessons!" At most the lessons are described as less stressful. Not something I would ever use to describe something that was fun. Were the lessons good for Ling Qi? Yes. However I would not say that the lessons were fun and I do not know where you could have gotten that idea from. Perhaps you are confusing the good memories and fun times we had with Xin later with those of the training sessions? After all you did not even mention Elder Jiao by name.

As for the first round of the tournament and us causing chaos we really did not even mean to. If you take a gander at the canonized omake "Tournament Perspective: Cai Renxiang" you will see a really interesting quote that reveals a lot about Ling Qi.

No, after her interactions with Ling Qi and gaining a better understanding of how she operated, it was unlikely that she even gave a thought about the terror and suffering she was inflicting upon her opponents. It was unlikely she thought of them as opponents even, merely another tool to leverage towards her inevitable victory against the real threat, Shen Hu.

She did not even think about what her opponents were going through. No thought to their suffering, or terror, or chaos. A trickster causes chaos because they enjoys chaos. If Ling Qi creates chaos it's because she has another goal in mind. Chaos might be a tool that Ling Qi uses from time to time in order to achieve her goal but chaos is not the goal of Ling Qi. If it is not a goal or even a priority for Ling Qi then we really shouldn't slot it into our domain because once again your domain is your soul. It is who you are. It is what your priorities and goals are. It is the direction that the cultivators life will follow until they turn to dust. Unless the goal of Ling Qi is to create chaos or to trick in everything that she does we should not focus on those aspect.

As for your statement that not every problem dealing with our friends needs to be dealt with in a physical way I point you to our current domain. Our domain right now does nothing physical it is all spiritual. If the domain was a physical effect it would be knocking people out that try to use lies or illusions against us. But it doesn't, it simply quietly in the background supports those that we care about. There are no flashy lights no sudden noises. Only the quiet support of a girl trying to build a family.
 
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