Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The Anarchist says: the laws are steel chains for the poor, but mere cobwebs to the rich.

CRX wants the law to hit the powerful as hard as it hits the powerless.


This is not a bad thing.
Not a bad thing... If everyone being in chains is a good thing. Equally fucked isn't a good thing just because equality generally is.
I'll just quote this rather than a dozen people:
The issue is that "properly" means "more than the opposition". Her connections and resources ? those are the definition of nepotism. She has them because she was born into it.
If we take her words at face value she literally wants to break down the system that hold her up.

That's why i fear she's a "unrealistic idealist that dreams of an impossible system".
Yeah, this.

If it's just the "you won't get the "knows the owner" freebies" when breaking the rules, that's one thing...

But if she won't, say, ever lean on her mother's disciples, or use her name to open doors, or that kind of thing... Then we'd have a problem.
 
Last edited:
The problem is that those ressources only exist thanks to nepotism. If she refuse nepotism, she should logically refuse those ressources too.

The problem is that we were told she was going to pay much more than any other option and she 1) doesn't pay much more spiritual stone wise (she pay about the same thing as the sect) and 2) she is telling us that she will not use her connection (nepotism) to give that absolute material superiority anymore.

I'll just quote this rather than a dozen people:
The issue is that "properly" means "more than the opposition". Her connections and resources ? those are the definition of nepotism. She has them because she was born into it.
If we take her words at face value she literally wants to break down the system that hold her up.

That's why i fear she's a "unrealistic idealist that dreams of an impossible system".
Except this is taking her as an individual. Talk of nepotism isn't acknowledging the manner in which people are irrevocably tied to their clans in imperial culture. As a retainer to Renxiang we're also tied to the Cai.

Also to be clear, CRX didn't mention nepotism. She talked about not bending rules or providing all the incentives and exceptions usually provided someone in our position (direct retainer of the provice's heir). No where does she imply not offering family resources, she just won't use her position to benefit us to the extent others might.
 
I mean sure you can debate that the entire idea of monarchal systems is an exercise in nepotism, and I'd probably agree with you, but good luck implementing anything other than strongman rule in a world where the monarch can fart out kill-sat lasers.

Stripping propriety away, Cai's position is a result of the support of the scariest monster, if she ascends to the throne, it will be because all the other monsters agree that fighting for it isn't worth it. Please work within the context of the setting for your definitions. For fucks sake.

Also she is almost matching the funds given you by an entire organization when she doesn't even hold any property herself yet, quit with the goddamn greed
But Yrs Cai is going to ban families and we'll never get to see Qingge or Biyu again!!!!!1!
 
I'll just quote this rather than a dozen people:
The issue is that "properly" means "more than the opposition". Her connections and resources ? those are the definition of nepotism. She has them because she was born into it.
If we take her words at face value she literally wants to break down the system that hold her up.

That's why i fear she's a "unrealistic idealist that dreams of an impossible system".


@naths @DeAnno any reason why we're keeping to Medium pills when we're borderline rich ?

Seems to me than getting high (or even very high) would be worth it if it secures physical and HDW level up, plus whatever else we'll get as overflow...

the percantages Anno listed are probabilities that it caps, not how far to the cap it comes. High pills would get us an expected 12 xp more physical base cultivation and while that does change the chances a bit, it seems very wasteful
 
Last edited:
@naths @DeAnno any reason why we're keeping to Medium pills when we're borderline rich ?

High pills are only 50% as efficient as Green Stones. If we had a truly urgent need for something it might be worth considering, but other than that I don't think I buy it.

The efficiency concerns are somewhat mitigated by the nature of the Musical Elixir, but overflow being weird could compound that, and even under favorable examination it's less efficient than GSS in a normal Month. As these plans aim for Foundation Turn 5 our GSS will start to be rapidly depleted then (8/turn real GSS spent before income) and I definitely don't expect them to last the full 2 years.
 
The problem is that those ressources only exist thanks to nepotism. If she refuse nepotism, she should logically refuse those ressources too.
That's not nepotism though. There's a difference between the pay/perks we get as part of our job, and extra benefits we finagle due to our close relationship.
It's the latter she's looking to cut down on, and the former that covers the material superiority.
 
Also she is almost matching the funds given you by an entire organization when she doesn't even hold any property herself yet, quit with the goddamn greed
Yrs, you seem agitated...

But saying she is matching what the organization gives as one of the lowest tiers of rewards available, to literally hundreds of disciples, isn't really making your point any stronger.

So people are worried the few perks we have will disappear.

Also, telling Ling Qi to not be greedy :V
 
Last edited:
No I seriously just think you guys are stupidly greedy. Do you think she isn't going to continue raising the pay as she herself rises higher and thus has more resources?

What would you even do with more green stones a month at this point?

Also you know feeding your giant black hole of a turtle
 
Last edited:
I'll just quote this rather than a dozen people:
The issue is that "properly" means "more than the opposition". Her connections and resources ? those are the definition of nepotism. She has them because she was born into it.
If we take her words at face value she literally wants to break down the system that hold her up.

That's why i fear she's a "unrealistic idealist that dreams of an impossible system".


@naths @DeAnno any reason why we're keeping to Medium pills when we're borderline rich ?

Seems to me than getting high (or even very high) would be worth it if it secures physical and HDW level up, plus whatever else we'll get as overflow...
If you take her words at face value without considering the world that these characters live in then sure, maybe. Her statement "want overriding need" is interesting. What does she consider a need in this death world? What does she consider a want in this world where might makes right? Instead of looking at things from a lofty place that is devoid of context we should peer at these problems through the lens of their worldview. As we continue to work with Cai we will get to know her better and learn her worldview better.

I for one am super excited about the future of the Cai route. I was never super hooked on being a spymaster but being a diplomat to the darker aspects of the Emerald Sea, those ancient places that still follow the weilu, seems way more interesting and super fun. I am really looking forward this direction. We will likely meet even more awesome characters this way.

@yrsillar Thanks for writing such an awesome quest that is a joy to follow and participate in!
 
Just to be clear - Cai's point here isn't a "revelation". We knew early on that graft and the like wasn't going to fly. I think CRX is just reinforcing the point, particularly in response to us asking about
"Even the ones who don't fit into that order?" Ling Qi asked wryly.
Basically, Cai is telling us "I know you are chaotic neutral, but I'm not going to give you license to break the law."
 
If we don't have initiative, we take a hit either way, then we get back to previously described thing where after 2 turns, anthem is flat out better.

Except actions are still narratively limited, and it's probably better to get up, say, TRU or PLR, both of which provide even stronger defensive effects than the Anthem's Pipers. By a substantial margin.

Our opponent hit doesn't significantly surpass our avoid*. Very different as as a dodge tank this will almost always be true (exception made for stinking cheaters like the blood bimbo). That make two conditionnal only, one of which is going to be true as we will need to do some duels to go up in the rankings.

A conditional is a conditional; if it's mostly true or not is immaterial. It won't always be true, that's what a conditional means.

And yes, we'll be in some duels as we rank up. That's expected. But EANP isn't a duelist's art, either. For all that the Pipers are at their best in the narrow situation described, there are other options that obtain a greater effect that are already in LQ's toolkit.

For all that the pipers boost FVM and FSS, Joyous Toast does the same thing - to a known greater extent - and PLR is flat-out superior defensively to the Pipers, especially as FVM and PLR layer their perception checks.

No, EANP is a battlefield Art. A true War Art. The niche where the pipers manage to match our other defensive Arts is really missing the point of the Art, I believe, and that is to provide the soundtrack to a bunch of Demons of the Night marching to War.

Sure. But it is better yet to do neither, if that is an option.

We shouldn't stick to arts that don't make sense for us, or feel like we HAVE to finish arts we started - but neither should we be picking up every other art we see because it is "fine" to discard arts.

Certainly. But an Art that looks good initially may not be, and even if it is any given Art will be surpassed at a later date, either by something directly in line (FVM -> FVM+) or by an upgrade to the field we used the Art in (FSA -> FSS). There is literally no way to know in advance, and in the meantime if we need coverage in an area, then we need coverage in that area.

It's pretty much why we're grabbing CDE and HDW for Perception, and SES for Resist.

Having additional options for our domain is a decent reason to get new arts, yes. However, it is hardly an urgent reason - there are any number of current arts that many of the voters are thinking of slotting already, many of them coming to completion soon. And it isn't like this is a limited time opportunity; any art that we can grab now, we can also grab in a month or three. Why rush into it?

The sooner we know what's available the easier it is to make longer term plans.

But a bigger deal is that many of those Arts have the occasional Theme issue, like TRF and SCS, or we may simply dislike the lesson slotting a given Art might mean.

Because we need ~3 more Arts to reach Foundation, and we have six options at the moment: SCS, TRF, FSS, FVM, AFL, and CDE. And of those, SCS, TRF, FVM, and FSS are the most likely to make it, and none of those share any theme keywords.

And while I don't think it's a problem yet, it will be as we advance our Cultivation.

For the first point, I contest that. Sure, we could spend time training Arts "just to see what they do", but I think that is a terrible waste of time. If you want to learn more about what arts could do, go to the archive to research what is there instead of going to pick things up.

For the second point, you are missing half the story. Yes, waiting until we've slotted lots of other things means we may not be able to slot a given new art because of incompatibility. But it is equally true that if we slot the new art first, then one or more of the other arts might not fit due to incompatibility. The only way you get to sample more arts is being more discerning about their insights - and we should be just as able to do that starting with a new art as with an old art.

Stuff like AENP doesn't appeal to me as a part of LQ's Art Suite or Domain due to the Theme keywords (Fear, Summons), but it's eminently plausible that a later Tech may change my mind about using it as a side board or even as a primary tool.

We only see the first level of an Art fresh from the Archive. In order to know what the Art really does we need to advance it. I mean, SCS grew quite a bit as it leveled up - the merger of the earlier Techniques into GCD was huge, and not something readily visible from the first level of the Art.

Your second point is true, it is a two-sided issue and we do need to be discerning about what Insights we pick up. We need to be in a position to be capable of being choosy before it becomes problematic, however. Getting Arts to just shy of maximum is a reasonable goal to get ahead of that potential problem, I think.

And we need to find out what Advanced Insights do and how we obtain those, and we'll find out more about how 'Cultivation and domain intermingle' as we progress. Only so much we can really do right now.

Something to note is domain xp. For example, next turn we are getting enough Art XP to give us a real shot at +1 Domain. Having arts to train semi-constantly means this will go up, and that helps a lot. Ling Qi also 'learns' things narratively with arts, helping her to find exactly how elements and 'keywords' means. As such, even a 'wasted' art like SES will likely help Ling Qi learn more about Perserverance (which is a main FVM thing), and so on.

Yanno, I hadn't even noticed SES had Perseverance as a theme keyword? lol.

What would you even do with more green stones a month at this point?

Fart rainbows?

Edit: Need sleep... and food. I think food should come first.
 
Last edited:
Drugs, obviously.

But in seriousness, I ain't gonna bother judging the exact resources we've received till after the Cai arts arrive.

I've still got my concerns, but the resources ain't one of em.
 
I mean sure you can debate that the entire idea of monarchal systems is an exercise in nepotism, and I'd probably agree with you, but good luck implementing anything other than strongman rule in a world where the monarch can fart out kill-sat lasers.

You would need a way for cultivation to be available to everyone just to start. Then you'd need a way for everyone to get high enough up the latter to collectively be a threat to those at the top.

So... several technological revolutions later.
 
Yrs, you seem agitated...

But saying she is matching what the organization gives as one of the lowest tiers of rewards available, to literally hundreds of disciples, isn't really making your point any stronger.
Assuming that the CRX benefits will not scale whatsoever with her and our advancement is an absurd assertion and doubling our entire monthly income is a massive benefit without even taking into account the other things she does for us, which ranges from granting us much inflated political clout for a new baronial clan to putting us into contact with buyers for the mirror and thus letting us liquidate it much more easily and at a much better rate to securing us what is liable to be an art matching our best arts in quality but starting in green.
 
No I seriously just think you guys are stupidly greedy. Do you think she isn't going to continue raising the pay as she herself rises higher and thus has more resources?

What would you even do with more green stones a month at this point?

Well, we wouldn't have had to sell the mirror and we could get more drugs.

The problem is that the pay rising along with our level (or, well, hers but we intend to keep up so the difference is meaningless), is something that every other organisation in the setting does (this is why we get 20 more yss coming this month after all). When we made a choice between jiao and her, she was told to have an absolute material superiority. Of course people are unhappy when what was voted on doesn't materialise.
 
No I seriously just think you guys are stupidly greedy. Do you think she isn't going to continue raising the pay as she herself rises higher and thus has more resources?

What would you even do with more green stones a month at this point?

Also you know feeding your giant black hole of a turtle
It's hard to feel rich when we have no idea what any of our enemies or allies spends.
 
Well, we wouldn't have had to sell the mirror and we could get more drugs.

The problem is that the pay rising along with our level (or, well, hers but we intend to keep up so the difference is meaningless), is something that every other organisation in the setting does (this is why we get 20 more yss coming this month after all). When we made a choice between jiao and her, she was told to have an absolute material superiority. Of course people are unhappy when what was voted on doesn't materialise.
I am unsure by what you are talking about. Absolute material superiority is not materializing? Our income is basically double what we would have had if we tried for the sect route. We wouldn't have become Jiao's disciple by this point. The only reason we got such a good price for our mirror is because cai has connections. Like... What more do you want? Seems super greedy to expect everything to be covered by our liege. Like we have to buy things ourselves, oh no what a nightmare.
 
well, yeah. CRX wont give us the money she gets from the sect by climbing sect ranks. She also never promised she would?

That doesnt change that we get a lot of money and other stuff from her (Robe, Arts(soon), Connections (even without blatant nepotism people will talk to us because we serve CRX) and she made the auction possible.

If we want our income from her to increase then we have to help her succeed at the jobs Shenhua gave her and succeed on our own. This would be after the sect btw.
 
The efficiency concerns are somewhat mitigated by the nature of the Musical Elixir, but overflow being weird could compound that, and even under favorable examination it's less efficient than GSS in a normal Month. As these plans aim for Foundation Turn 5 our GSS will start to be rapidly depleted then (8/turn real GSS spent before income) and I definitely don't expect them to last the full 2 years.
Wait, isn't next turn' EPC lowing that to 4/month ? And there's whatever upgrade the vent gets when we hit next rank bracket too.

No I seriously just think you guys are stupidly greedy. Do you think she isn't going to continue raising the pay as she herself rises higher and thus has more resources?

What would you even do with more green stones a month at this point?

Also you know feeding your giant black hole of a turtle
No idea, i don't remember she ever saying such.
All we know is that she's paying us based upon missions successes (last thread) and overall comparatively less than a hypothetical equivalent ducal heir would (basically right now).
Most of what we gotten from her (that we actually value, like the robe, it's upgrade or the help with our mother) seem to me as stuff we've gotten due to this nepotism and favoritism you are saying CRX is going to cut...

I mean if it were just "you're not above the law as other top rank nobles like to think themselves as" then there's easier and clearer ways to get that message across...
I also see absolutely no relation between CRX's message and Ling Qi's Song from the previous chap, and i'm still assuming there's somewhat of a logical progression between the two so i'm a bit lost on what exactly CRX wanted to say ...
Best i got is some kind of opposition from CRX between Ling Qi's birdy collecting shinnies and using her to make them shinier, and what a bird should normally be doing (aka: hunt/scarvage to survive).


Wait, why are people saying that we're getting a Cai art? I don't see anything about that in the update.
Last month CRX said she had some people looking for arts useful for Ling Qi in her family's library.
 
Last edited:
Wait, isn't next turn' EPC lowing that to 4/month ? And there's whatever upgrade the vent gets when we hit next rank bracket too.

Yeah, but in Month 6 when we start as Foundation, which means 12 total GSS/month, raising expenditure back to 8. We could get up to a GSS Vent eventually, but I don't think it's the next vent, so we will be doing 8/month a lot I think. And then we will reach Green 4 probably not long from that, even more GSS spending...

In the end GSS consumed is basically quadratic, we will run them out pretty quick in Green 4/5 if they arent already gone earlier.
 
You know, maybe its just me but can't we just ask CRX to clarify? Like, maybe I'm expecting too much basic social competence here but surely it makes more sense to ask her for a clearer example of what she means than to decide what she means based off of a two-sentence long offhand mention.

This was no idle song, or a polite piece to be played for parties. Yet it was not an art yet either, Ling Qi lacked the spiritual potency for that.
I'm going to point to this and mention once again that I think we should really look into getting custom arts for ourselves. It can't possibly be that expensive if it took us a few actions points to get this far and all we're lacking is spiritual potency.
Particularly for our domain, the ability to tailor our perks and insights should be useful.

It's hard to feel rich when we have no idea what any of our enemies or allies spends.
This is definitely correct, though I'm not sure if there's a practical way to change that since giving others definite resources would pigeon hole the author and annoy us when it becomes clear that the economic system we run on can't possibly account for the gains every one around us makes in service of the plot.
 
Wait, isn't next turn' EPC lowing that to 4/month ? And there's whatever upgrade the vent gets when we hit next rank bracket too.


No idea, i don't remember she ever saying such.
All we know is that she's paying us based upon missions successes (last thread) and overall comparatively less than a hypothetical equivalent ducal heir would (basically right now).
Most of what we gotten from her (that we actually value, like the robe, it's upgrade or the help with our mother) seem to me as stuff we've gotten due to this nepotism and favoritism you are saying CRX is going to cut...

I mean if it were just "you're not above the law as other top rank nobles like to think themselves as" then there's easier and clearer ways to get that message across...
I also see absolutely no relation between CRX's message and Ling Qi's Song from the previous chap, and i'm still assuming there's somewhat of a logical progression between the two so i'm a bit lost on what exactly CRX wanted to say ...
Best i got is some kind of opposition from CRX between Ling Qi's birdy collecting shinnies and using her to make them shinier, and what a bird should normally be doing (aka: hunt/scarvage to survive).



Last month CRX said she had some people looking for arts useful for Ling Qi in her family's library.
Ah yes, arguing that the qm wasn't actually saying what they said they were saying, with the qm himself. This is certainly a good idea.
 
Back
Top