Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[fictionfan]

(Obv not asleep yet, lol, eating and on phone).

ENM and MNO are both two distinct parts of our stealth suite. ENM messes with memories, allowing us to re-enter stealth more easily, and MNO screws with non-physical means of Perception, parallel to how SCS messes with physical means of perception.

AFL has a place, too. We're uniquely suited to it due to our ability to fly, and the cost technique further enhances Stealth while flying. The speed boost should also work out nicely.

And, as we're going Stealth, we'll ditch PLR in favor of whichever of ENM/AFL we don't keep continuously equipped. PLR is noisy by nature.

SCS further enhances this while in low light or complete darkness, even without activating any techniques, and provides powerful escape mechanisms in the form of the SCS eponymous technique and OWS.

The final piece here is CDE, a Perception Art that should allow us to effectively teleport through walls, and more easily break or bypass Formations.

In total, that's five Arts for our stealth suite, making it a very potent tool in our arsenal - provided we need to use it.

However, of the three new stealth Arts, MNO is the one most likely to slot permanently into our toolkit, due to how well it complements SCS (non-physical senses as compared to physical senses), and the way it's anti-dispel technique works may simply cock-block Dispels aimed at a completed FVM.

The other two are more situational, with ENM favoring combat and AFL favoring running away really fast.
Nothing wrong with that, though; we'll probably end up with one of those two on our 'permanent' list, once we have the extra Leg Meridians.

I don't know which one I'd prefer anymore, but there's no reason not to slot one of them alalongside MNO, as MNO is Spine/Lung, while both ENM and AFL are both Arm/Leg, and we've got spare Arm Meridians.

Also, the names of ENM and ONM paralleling each other is a neat touch.

Anyway, bedtime.

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I expect that soon we are going to have two sets of art suites. Our stealth suite that focuses on steath and mobily and generally being by ourselves. And our go loud mass combat suite.

Both of them are rather stealth focused but one tries to make it so they never know we were there. The other tries to make it so they can't find us even when they know we are there.

 

[Neshuakadal]

Here is one thing that i don't like about all of this Arts, namely they they have only 5 levels. Don't get get me wrong, i love several of them, and even without multipliers they can be learned very fast. The problem is - they would be discarded later almost as fast if not faster for better techs that we: find in some secret cave/learn from 2 floor/receive from Elders and Spirits. All of our best tech we receive in non-standard way.
I think we should wait a little and see what Arts available on 2 library floor.
P.S.: And is it my imagination or are we really find better Arts on second attempt? Is it because of our new art or Green 2 breakthrough?

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So the key thing that we have to remember is that in order to advance up green we need to expand our domain. In order to expand our domain we need finished arts. So its good that these arts are quick to level up as it gives us more options with domain sloting and let's us climb the green ladder faster.

 

[Aranfan]

Considering the domain we want Ling Qi to build, we def want to master the hearth art.

Not sure on which of the others I like best.

 

[Erebeal]

I'm going to also note another thing.

Short term, the most valuable things for us are a) making stealth useful, b) making sure we have good perception, and c) making sure we don't have a gaping vulnerability to dispels.

S.def actually isn't a huge problem.

Our s.armor is actually pretty decent, and FSS gives us ways to reduce the power of spiritual attacks against us as well. If we don't train Resilience for the next few months it's hardly going to be a huge problem.

Fade is currently at D, so we can still train it for the next couple of months without a serious Fade art. Sixiang is also giving us free dispels, making failure to dodge spiritual attacks less of an issue.

Basically, I think we can leave s.def arts off till Archive 2 if it makes things easier.

 

[FakePriest]

So the key thing that we have to remember is that in order to advance up green we need to expand our domain. In order to expand our domain we need finished arts. So its good that these arts are quick to level up as it gives us more options with domain sloting and let's us climb the green ladder faster.

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1) FVM, SCS, TRF, FSS, EPC add to them PLR and CDE later and we have enough Arts for advancing for now, we are in no hurry.
2) Not 100% sure but i think Arts of better quality would add better bonuses to our Domain.

 

[Katreus]

2 AP to train ae to lvl 5 and see the realm jump and alt power.

 

[Evilness42]

[X] Ashen Shadow Art

The choice is clear.

 

[Inferno Vulpix]

Here is one thing that i don't like about all of this Arts, namely they they have only 5 levels. Don't get get me wrong, i love several of them, and even without multipliers they can be learned very fast. The problem is - they would be discarded later almost as fast if not faster for better techs that we: find in some secret cave/learn from 2 floor/receive from Elders and Spirits. All of our best tech we receive in non-standard way.
I think we should wait a little and see what Arts available on 2 library floor.
P.S.: And is it my imagination or are we really find better Arts on second attempt? Is it because of our new art or Green 2 breakthrough?

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While in general you're right that something we pick up at Green 1 will be obsoleted by a similar art found at Green 3, we've also found arts that have the potential to stay useful quite a lot longer.

Mysterious Night's Obscurity's False Truths is a pretty unique technique that doesn't quite have a power level. From what I can see, it'll stay useful for us for the foreseeable future and I doubt we'll easily find another art that does the same thing. So while Mysterious Night's Obscurity will get outclassed numbers-wise later, I would not be surprised if we keep holding onto it because one of its core techs is just that good.

Other arts, like Audacious Fairy's Lark, are in a similar situation where the niche they affect is uncommon enough that they're hard to obsolete. Flight is really uncommon in Green, so Lark expands our comparative advantage there and we're not as likely to find something that's better at what it does (Especially since we know Lark is exceptionally strong for its level, as a tradeoff for its niche nature)

And lastly, arts like Imperturbable Manor's Hearth are so good for our Domain that they could be worth the investment just so we can slot them into our Domain. Making sure we form our Domain right is very important for the higher levels of cultivation, so even if we put it off and grab it later it can still be worth the investment eventually.

Not everything's got stuff like this going on for them, of course, but I do think that some of these arts do have staying power and it would be remiss of us to assume otherwise just because they've got low Potency.

 

[PrimalShadow]

I really like the way SES fits us thematically.

First (and credit to @Black Noise for thinking of this in discord), SES is actually really well suited to narratively weathering Zeqing's trial. The art is literally based on the story of "a seedling growing from a storm wracked cliff", and Zeqing is snowstorm personified. Of course it is unknown at this point what Zeqing's trial would be, but even so I think there is likely to be meaningful resonance there.

Second, SES is a poignant counterpart to TRF. Where TRF gives us Physical Armor and Resolve, SES gives Spiritual Armor and Resist. Where TRF dispels debuffs that land on us, SES removes attempts to dispel our own arts. And of course, where TRF tells the story of a tree standing strong as part of a forest, SES describes how even seedling exposed to the elements can grow and thrive.

 

[fictionfan]

Really the more arts we have mastered the more material we have for making our arts in the future.

 

[FakePriest]

Really the more arts we have mastered the more material we have for making our arts in the future.

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Unfortunately we didn't have time to 'catch them all'.

While in general you're right that something we pick up at Green 1 will be obsoleted by a similar art found at Green 3, we've also found arts that have the potential to stay useful quite a lot longer.

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I think you just nailed my point. Arts with more levels (doesn't matter that much at which stage of cultivation we find them) have better chance to have these 'never obsolete' techs simply because on max level they contain more techs.

 

[fictionfan]

You know it would make sense to master Evanescent Anthem of the Nights Parade then put Guardian Pipers on a greater qi card then unequip the art.

 

[angelofwhim]

I wanna talk to our gown, name it Fifi, and join it on a journey of the way of the Bite.

 

[Ayashi]

Imperturbable Manor's Hearth might be a "perfect" fit for our domain, but the thing to remember is that we don't need it right now.
We only need it leveled up by whenever we hit late green 3, so we can slot it in our domain. That's going to be in quite a few turns...

We should concentrate on Arts that give us a power boost now so we can get to a higher rank, and use the rank benefits to fuel a faster growth.

 

[Erebeal]

I really like the way SES fits us thematically.

First (and credit to @Black Noise for thinking of this in discord), SES is actually really well suited to narratively weathering Zeqing's trial. The art is literally based on the story of "a seedling growing from a storm wracked cliff", and Zeqing is snowstorm personified. Of course it is unknown at this point what Zeqing's trial would be, but even so I think there is likely to be meaningful resonance there.

Second, SES is a poignant counterpart to TRF. Where TRF gives us Physical Armor and Resolve, SES gives Spiritual Armor and Resist. Where TRF dispels debuffs that land on us, SES removes attempts to dispel our own arts. And of course, where TRF tells the story of a tree standing strong as part of a forest, SES describes how even seedling exposed to the elements can grow and thrive.

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Mmm, the point about it fitting the Zeqing trial and a music month well is a good one I think.

That being said, I would note that SES is very, hmm, tanky in its idiom? It's about digging in, and not letting yourself be moved. In this way, it reinforces the elements of TRF that we identified in the tournament as being awkward and not really fitting with the "dancing moonshadow" style that SCS pushes.

In terms of style, for a character that was leaning into the "fortress deathfield" kind of gameplay using TRF/FVM/FSS, it would be an obvious fit that would reinforce that really well. (going SES/IMH would reinforce this even more of course)

Otoh, if a character was focusing on the "dancing moonshadow" kind of PLR/SCS/FVM gameplay then its solidity and lack of motion would be an awkward fit, while MNO would fit really well and make a lot of sense for that character.

 

[FakePriest]

If our next challenges will be like the last one, than we need Skills boost more than Art boost and that means special events and more AP to exploration.

That being said, I would note that SES is very, hmm, tanky in its idiom? It's about digging in, and not letting yourself be moved.

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In spiritual sense, yes. For me SES seems like Art that would be good for battlefield whereas MNO more feating for stealth missions.

 

[veekie]

Here is one thing that i don't like about all of this Arts, namely they they have only 5 levels. Don't get get me wrong, i love several of them, and even without multipliers they can be learned very fast. The problem is - they would be discarded later almost as fast if not faster for better techs that we: find in some secret cave/learn from 2 floor/receive from Elders and Spirits. All of our best tech we receive in non-standard way.
I think we should wait a little and see what Arts available on 2 library floor.
P.S.: And is it my imagination or are we really find better Arts on second attempt? Is it because of our new art or Green 2 breakthrough?

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Feature, not bug.
-Short arts are arts that can be mastered rapidly and assessed for domain slotting.
-Short arts hog less meridians, making them easier to unequip for training other stuff
-Meridian optimization means that long arts are horribly inefficient, you want a short art so you can condense it down before you go to a successor.
-Short arts can be customized and kept up to date by looking for successor arts focusing on the portion you like better. Long arts you're stuck with committing to the end or abandoning.

So the thing is, emphasis on the completely wrong part. Long Arts should be avoided unless they are a definite long term investment from a known high quality(like, we're looking at Count quality-ish before we even consider a long art, because anything less will risk being obsolete before we finish it) art source like a Great Spirit or Elder.

 

[Erebeal]

Bleh, SES is annoying. It's mechanically useful, but annoying stylistically.

Like, we had all this discussion about the problems with SCS and TRF last year, and Ling Qi actually thought about this in story and how she was less keen on being an immobile tank, and how there was a need to try to resolve this:

Yet its defense was rigid and unbending, it belonged to the sort of stout arboreal guardians which would shatter before bending… and that was not her. She had played at such, today and in previous training, but in the end, that mindset, of holding ones ground no matter what and refusing to fall back… it was just too alien. Ground could be surrendered, and people could retreat. It was better to let an enemy push you back and in doing overextend themselves, than to repulse them with sheer force.

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One of the big things we thought about in terms of "fixing" TRF would be to focus more on spiritual aspects of Vitality and growth. It's kind of a shame that SES instead really reinforces the "be immobile tank" style of TRF, and thus exacerbates the problem rather than helping us begin to resolve it.

Arguably we screwed ourselves here by voting for "War" and not "Vitality". Vitality would probably have given us stuff more in line with what we want - heck, a vitality based version of SES would be ideal!

 

[FakePriest]

-Short arts hog less meridians, making them easier to unequip for training other stuff
-Meridian optimization means that long arts are horribly inefficient, you want a short art so you can condense it down before you go to a successor.

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You make it sound worse than it really is. For example 5 levels of AM requires 4 meridians the same amount as for 6 levels TRF, and just 1 meridian short of SCS and FVM 8. They have close to equal levels of potency. And now look at difference of their techs.
P.S.: Now that i think about it we need both, short Arts, even of a high quality just wouldn't give us highest ranked techs.
P.S.S.: I still think we should visit Second Floor before adding new Arts.

 

[veekie]

You make it sound worse than it really is. For example 5 levels of AM requires 4 meridians the same amount as for 6 levels TRF, and just 1 meridian short of SCS and FVM 8. They have close to equal levels of potency. And now look at difference of their techs.
P.S.: Now that i think about it we need both, short Arts, even of a high quality just wouldn't give us highest ranked techs.
P.S.S.: I still think we should visit Second Floor before adding new Arts.

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Thats because SCS and FVM are arts which are very high in quality, granted directly by a Great Spirit, and AM is, while well crafted, a mass produced Sect Primer somewhere between Baron and Count quality, intended to be crammed into low Talent lifetime Green/Yellows in boot camp.

Thats the difference, not the length.
And I'd note that AM is short and we can already optimize it to compress its meridians while we can't do that for FVM for a while yet.

 

[veekie]

So here goes another go at Art Analysis. As before I'd hit them one by one so it doesn't become one giant wall of text that takes all day to write and nobody would want to read

Mysterious Night's Obscurity

The hidden moon taught men the value of secrets, of the advantage held by he who controlled knowledge. The piercing light of curiosity can be evaded and misdirected, fed false truths and fooled. Using this technique, the user shrouds their meridians and the flows of their qi in half truths and misdirections, distorted lunar reflections that beguile those who seek to unravel their works.

Potency: Green 1
Potency Growth: Green 2(3), Green 3(5)
Max Level: 5
Needed Meridians: Spine x2, lung(1), Spine(3), Lung(5)
Keywords: Moon, Secrets, Stealth, Resist, Wind, Wits, Yin
Experience: 100, 150, 200, 300, 400

Passives
+10 to Resist
+5 to Spiritual Avoid
+5 to Stealth

Shadowed, Secret and Safe: D
Duration: Long
The user channels lunar qi throughout their body. This has no visible effect, but to spiritual senses, their form grows indistinct and distorted, like a wisp of mist or a fleeting reflection. Gives the user a bonus against all dispel attempts, and penalizes any perception attempts against the user not relying on the physical senses.

False Truths: D
Duration: Immediate
Evading the seeking light of truth, the user throws of false images and forms to distract from their secrets in the spiritual realm. Used only in opposition to a dispel attempt, provides a significant bonus to Resist. If the Dispel is still successful but fails to exceed the users resist by a significant margin, the users lowest rank active technique is dispelled instead at random..

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Mysterious Night's Obscurity
-Elements: Moon, Wind
-Meridians: Spine primary, Lung secondary
-Keywords: Secrets, Stealth, Resist, Wind, Wits, Yin

This setup plays up being super enigmatic. Between the Moon's Mystery and the Wind's tendency to evade, trick and find alternatives, manifested through a focus on yourself(Spine) this art is all about being...a Nue, an unidentifiable force of uncertain attributes.
The Lung Meridian mystified me at first, but I guess it's going to start projecting the mystery outside the user next to obscure their position in a haze of fantasy quantum superposition where you always aren't where they're looking.

-Combat utility: Stealth art, Dispel resistance

Pretty straightforward, it jams any kind of bullshit sensing. Probably wouldn't work on Liling's "I smell your blood" thing if its tied to her nose, but would work if instead its tied to "I have tagged your lifeforce and can track it anywhere".
Very valuable. Its easy to hide your physical form(theres only like 5 vectors to block), but a blanket penalty to anything NON physical is necessary if you want to hide from formations and perception arts. Especially qi sensing.

False Truths is also pretty amazing because we're vulnerable to dispelling due to our windup strategy, and forcing them to ineffectively dispel anything BUT Travelers End would be hilarious. Theres probably counters to this sort of diversion out there, given the low rank. But still.

-Playstyle utility: Information obscuration

Shadowed, Secret and Safe has a Long duration, so with our Qi rank, we could literally walk around with it up all the time when in public, to make it harder to gather information on our abilities(which makes Challenges easier).


-Domain slot message: "Knowledge is power, Guard it well",

Its all about keeping your secrets, concealing your true self. This would interact oddly with Argent Mirror's See The Truth aspect at first glance, but isn't actually contradictory, the Hidden Moon prizes finding secrets and keeping them secret after all. It gathers knowledge like a dragon's hoard.

With our Home domain, it probably manifests in the form of concealing our Home from outsiders so they can't learn who're in it. A definition of In Group to learn about and keep close, while the Out Group is to wander lost.

 

[FakePriest]

Thats because SCS and FVM are arts which are very high in quality, granted directly by a Great Spirit, and AM is, while well crafted, a mass produced Sect Primer somewhere between Baron and Count quality, intended to be crammed into low Talent lifetime Green/Yellows in boot camp.

Thats the difference, not the length.
And I'd note that AM is short and we can already optimize it to compress its meridians while we can't do that for FVM for a while yet.

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Well, we didn't have obviously low quality long Arts, so we can't compare, but i think trend is the same. And if you are right then it just means that all our short Arts are really low in quality.

Spoiler: And one more thing

I think we need more information about different Arts before continuing our arguing.

 

[CatOnTheWeb]

Evanescent Anthem of the Nights Parade
On the storm washed shores of savage seas, there are legends among certain hinterlands villages that on nights when the stars are right, spirits gather for a grand parade or on certain terrible nights, to go to war. Created by a traveling scholar in reflection of these legends, this art allows the user to call forth shades of those raucous spirits to bolster the formation of their own allies

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Huh, that's basically the Hyakki Yagyo. Very solidly a summoning theme then, although I'm curious about what the capstone would get. I suspect something like Nurarihyon, given how he was attributed to be the leader of the Hyakki Yagyo. Wonder how 'makes you think he is a perfectly friendly who of course can come into your house and eat all your food' would work in combat. Enemies target you with their buffs maybe?

 

[Ayashi]

So here goes another go at Art Analysis. As before I'd hit them one by one so it doesn't become one giant wall of text that takes all day to write and nobody would want to read


Mysterious Night's Obscurity
-Elements: Moon, Wind
-Meridians: Spine primary, Lung secondary
-Keywords: Secrets, Stealth, Resist, Wind, Wits, Yin

This setup plays up being super enigmatic. Between the Moon's Mystery and the Wind's tendency to evade, trick and find alternatives, manifested through a focus on yourself(Spine) this art is all about being...a Nue, an unidentifiable force of uncertain attributes.
The Lung Meridian mystified me at first, but I guess it's going to start projecting the mystery outside the user next to obscure their position in a haze of fantasy quantum superposition where you always aren't where they're looking.

-Combat utility: Stealth art, Dispel resistance

Pretty straightforward, it jams any kind of bullshit sensing. Probably wouldn't work on Liling's "I smell your blood" thing if its tied to her nose, but would work if instead its tied to "I have tagged your lifeforce and can track it anywhere".
Very valuable. Its easy to hide your physical form(theres only like 5 vectors to block), but a blanket penalty to anything NON physical is necessary if you want to hide from formations and perception arts. Especially qi sensing.

False Truths is also pretty amazing because we're vulnerable to dispelling due to our windup strategy, and forcing them to ineffectively dispel anything BUT Travelers End would be hilarious. Theres probably counters to this sort of diversion out there, given the low rank. But still.

-Playstyle utility: Information obscuration

Shadowed, Secret and Safe has a Long duration, so with our Qi rank, we could literally walk around with it up all the time when in public, to make it harder to gather information on our abilities(which makes Challenges easier).


-Domain slot message: "Knowledge is power, Guard it well",

Its all about keeping your secrets, concealing your true self. This would interact oddly with Argent Mirror's See The Truth aspect at first glance, but isn't actually contradictory, the Hidden Moon prizes finding secrets and keeping them secret after all. It gathers knowledge like a dragon's hoard.

With our Home domain, it probably manifests in the form of concealing our Home from outsiders so they can't learn who're in it. A definition of In Group to learn about and keep close, while the Out Group is to wander lost.

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I think a lot of it's value is negated by the wide, and cheap, availability of escape and hiding consumables and accessories. They were even available in the Outer Sect!

 

[Erebeal]

Domain-wise I'd point out that we probably shouldn't slot things based on their mechanical bonuses.

Certainly at least our base domain ability and AM's mechanical effect are kinda trash.