Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

memoryofglory · Nov 20, 2021

Valmond said:
That speaks quite poorly of the average noble.

Are we sure we're all talking about the same character? In her point of view chapters Sun Liling has been pretty damn confident in Lu Feng's loyalty, and she's not an idiot. He's definitely no Han Fang and probably not quite Gan Guangli, but his loyalty to his Princess seems genuine. This 'victory needs no excuse' trash talk seems more him parroting his bosses' party line justification for breaking with the Bai, combined with some genuine dislike/enmity for Gan Guangli and his boisterous personality.

JohnnieBoy123 · Nov 20, 2021

memoryofglory said:
Are we sure we're all talking about the same character? In her point of view chapters Sun Liling has been pretty damn confident in Lu Feng's loyalty, and she's not an idiot. He's definitely no Han Fang and probably not quite Gan Guangli, but his loyalty to his Princess seems genuine. This 'victory needs no excuse' trash talk seems more him parroting his bosses' party line justification for breaking with the Bai, combined with some genuine dislike/enmity for Gan Guangli and his boisterous personality.

Keep in mind that Suzhen says this to Meizhen

yrsillar said:
"Pride is important. Poise is important. Presentation is important." Her aunt's voice was stern, and Bai Meizhen shrunk into the bedding, casting her eyes down. "But my niece, victory is the most important of all."

I think "victory needs no excuse" is a common sentiment throughout the Empire. Lu Feng's proclamation of it is probably fairly uninteresting to those watching, with GG's disagreement being considered notable (and naive). This would presumably be why Shenhua finally finds GG worthy: he continued to hold to ideals despite the knowing that the empire would laugh at him for them.

Orkus Majorkus · Nov 20, 2021

Hereditary nobles are shit heads?

:suprisedpikachu:

memoryofglory · Nov 20, 2021

JohnnieBoy123 said:
Keep in mind that Suzhen says this to Meizhen

I think "victory needs no excuse" is a common sentiment throughout the Empire. Lu Feng's proclamation of it is probably fairly uninteresting to those watching, with GG's disagreement being considered notable (and naive). This would presumably be why Shenhua finally find GG worthy: he continued to hold to ideals despite the knowing that the empire would laugh at him for them.

I know, just pointing out that the Sun's entire justification for their existence is that sentiment taken to it's extreme, so Lu Feng holding to that view is not evidence that he's a feckless grasping noble who would stab his Princess in the back if it was to his benefit. People have been claiming that since he's expressed such views in a public setting he's set himself up to be somebody no one in the Empire will trust, which gravely misreads the attitudes of people in the Empire as a whole and the Western Territories in particular.

JohnnieBoy123 · Nov 20, 2021

memoryofglory said:
I know, just pointing out that the Sun's entire justification for their existence is that sentiment taken to it's extreme, so Lu Feng holding to that view is not evidence that he's a feckless grasping noble who would stab his Princess in the back if it was to his benefit. People have been claiming that since he's expressed such views in a public setting he's set himself up to be somebody no one in the Empire will trust, which gravely misreads the attitudes of people in the Empire as a whole and the Western Territories in particular.

I know, I thought about quoting someone else but really wasn't sure who.

Valmond · Nov 20, 2021

Bai are famously known to be terrible, though in Suzhen's defense, she was trying to console a distrought teenager who was worried she had disappointed the closest thing she has for a parental figure.

DeusExBritannia · Nov 20, 2021

Speaking of us being the villains, I like to imagine that, in the far future, a plucky shounen protagonist rises up to overthrow the clearly evil establishment and their "false" utopia, only for a greater threat to appear that requires the "good" and "bad" guys to team up, and in interacting with the bad guys, he learns that the creepy, obviously evil shadow lady is in fact an adorkable music nerd who loves her family.

FallenPears · Nov 20, 2021

Honestly what shocked me about Lu Feng was his disdain for cooperation and the relevant virtues even as he claims 'victory needs no excuse'. He's from the bloody Red Jungle, you would think if any citizens of the Empire would value and understand cooperation in the interest of survival and victory it would be those from there.

It boggles the mind how he came up with lone wolfing it so aggressively as an answer to victory. Either he's been so isolated in his home surrounded by protection that he didn't even realise he was being protected by others, becoming somehow convinced he could go it alone and now after experiencing the Sect has completely missed developing any such insights, or the very way his family survives the jungle is by having others sacrifice for them.

Whatever the case, if this view is shared by his family or he ever gains any significant power it does not bode well for those around him. His attitude is bad enough elsewhere, at his home it would be completely unsustainable, even ignoring greater events.

(This is of course assuming we're not reading too much into things and it wasn't simple shit talking.)

Orkus Majorkus · Nov 21, 2021

FallenPears said:
Honestly what shocked me about Lu Feng was his disdain for cooperation and the relevant virtues even as he claims 'victory needs no excuse'. He's from the bloody Red Jungle, you would think if any citizens of the Empire would value and understand cooperation in the interest of survival and victory it would be those from there.

It's because he's from there Feng has that view. King Sun is the ultimate expression of that, having rebelled against his sworn liege and lead a large swath of vassals with him and since he ended up winning and nobody liked the Bai anyway he got it sanctioned by The Throne. They did the job in spite of cooperation with the rest of the empire, not because of it. Easterners are viewed as weak because they don't live in a hell jungle and regularly get their citizens eaten for living somewhere that is an ever hungering maw so are the Other to those who settled in the jungle. Cooperation is for those who don't suck and only those in the jungle don't suck.

It's not exactly a novel view point. Those who suffered some sort of hardship, regardless of if it was avoidable or sometimes even voluntary!, frequently think that because they survived it somehow makes them unique and superior and any who didn't are weaker and infearior.

Erebeal · Nov 21, 2021

The Western Territories might be high on "Hard Men Making Hard Decisions While Hard", but the Bai are all in favour of "Hard Women Making Hard Decisions While Snake" so, y'know, it's a bit hard to blame them really.

We should be open-minded about different cultures, but the western side of the empire has issues.

Orkus Majorkus · Nov 21, 2021

Oh yeah, it aint unique to the Western Territories. Them, the Bai, the Zheng, the Cloud Tribes. They all do it.

yrsillar said:
There was a man there behind him, partially phantasmal, body dissolving into tongues of flame and light below the chest. A huge and muscular, wearing only a vest of pale blue fire, the figures chiseled features displayed a pleased smile as he rose from the ground with Lu Feng in tow, long golden hair billowing in the wind.

Lol just realized Gan Flexington bonded with a genie

Peacelock · Nov 21, 2021

Ah god the description of the sound of the headbutt hitting the head of Lu Feng makes ME feel a little ill.

SassyAsses · Nov 21, 2021

MY BOY DID IT! HE WEAPONIZED HAM AND USED IT TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF SOMEONE!

TimEd said:
doubt Gan Guanli has no dispels, but we just spec'ed LQ so that even if he does it would still be worthless unless he's Renxiang levels of dispels.

In the preliminaries we saw him fight a Western music cultivator and he punched the air so hard it ripped into the liminal realm and dispelled it. Man literally punched the music out of the air.
Ling Qi's music is probably more durable, but we know for a fact that GG knows dispels

Doramas · Nov 21, 2021

So, I have been reading the informationals, refreshing things, and I have a couple questions.

Why is Wang Chao's bond at rank 1? I thought it had raised to 2 when we asked him to introduce us to his sister?

And more importantly, something that has been bugging me for quite a while, why are Hanyi's and Sixiang's ranks at 3 and Zhengui's at 4? Wouldn't 4 and 5, or heck, 4-5 and 6 more reasonable?
Or is there some soft cap at 4 that I'm unaware of?

Yun · Nov 21, 2021

Doramas said:
So, I have been reading the informationals, refreshing things, and I have a couple questions.

Why is Wang Chao's bond at rank 1? I thought it had raised to 2 when we asked him to introduce us to his sister?

And more importantly, something that has been bugging me for quite a while, why are Hanyi's and Sixiang's ranks at 3 and Zhengui's at 4? Wouldn't 4 and 5, or heck, 4-5 and 6 more reasonable?
Or is there some soft cap at 4 that I'm unaware of?

The Wang Chao is a matter of the SL section not being up to date and the lack of SL 5-6 is due to Ling Qi issues making her unable to form such deep bond for now.

Doramas · Nov 21, 2021

But I thought that the bond levels represented more how the others felt toward Ling Qi? The explanation from the informational talks about how much they are willing to help Ling Qi, at least.

Grigori · Nov 21, 2021

I'll admit that continuing the feud and ransacking supplies while the Sect was at war and greater things were at stake was incredibly low but questioning LF's trustworthiness feels awkward while playing as an underhanded sneaky attrition fighting thief. Honestly felt a little judged by GG's comments.

Had me looking back at the previous tournament where leadership was considered virtuous but arts to turn allies against each other were villainous despite it being an alliance of six against one (JR) until LF arrived (after apparently taking out more that would have added to the disparity). LQ even acknowledged the resemblance of LF's style to her own in his early actions of the match and speaking of villainous aesthetics, in her group stage she fed on her opponents while fleeing her peer and harrying him between recovery. She likewise didn't spend the bout helping allies and her match with CS spent in the air wasn't exactly a duel on even grounds.

GG's victory was fun and he made for an incredibly easy competitor to root for even outside our connection but attempting to extrapolate this battle as a mark against LF as a person, subordinate and superior is excessive. This is a tournament in a controlled environment. Sure talk of "victory needs no excuse" can be taken to extremes but there's no real moral superiority in being a direct and straightforward fighter. Nor is using stealth and damage over time less worthy of respect than high power techniques that cause collateral damage or working with others to take down those with superior cultivation.

EternalObserver · Nov 21, 2021

Doramas said:
But I thought that the bond levels represented more how the others felt toward Ling Qi? The explanation from the informational talks about how much they are willing to help Ling Qi, at least.

The way I personally see it for personal bond levels, it represents the relationship level between the two characters. Meaning it doesn't just account how other feels about Ling Qi, it accounts how the latter feels towards that person as well. How the bond level system came to be is kind of a transition from a previous system (i.e. Sun Liling used to be -4 before the system change since it's about how Ling Qi feels)

Doramas · Nov 21, 2021

Grigori said:
I'll admit that continuing the feud and ransacking supplies while the Sect was at war and greater things were at stake was incredibly low but questioning LF's trustworthiness feels awkward while playing as an underhanded sneaky attrition fighting thief. Honestly felt a little judged by GG's comments.

I agree that using a sneaky vampiric debuffer build is no indication that someone is "evil". Hell, Ling Qi certainly can't complain about it.
But my read on the complaints about LF are about the first part of your comment.

During the initial attack on the sect by the Seven Cities, GG and her group rushed to town to protect the commoners, many resulting hurt in the process. LF took that opportuniy to take control of cultivation sites and ransack GG's faction storehouses.
Innocent people were dying, but LF only cared about the opportunity to get an advantage, to "win". You can't longer excuse that kind of behaviour by saying that they are in the "controlled" environment of the sect. LF simply showed his true colors, and they are ugly ones.

No one is questioning LF or his family's loyalty toward the Sun. But the entire Western Territories seem to have an actitude of: "If you die to the jungle, it's because you were too weak. Why should we help you?"
And that isn't a really attractive mindset for the minor vassals and commoners living there.

JohnnieBoy123 · Nov 21, 2021

Doramas said:
No one is questioning LF or his family's loyalty toward the Sun. But the entire Western Territories seem to have an actitude of: "If you die to the jungle, it's because you were too weak. Why should we help you?"
And that isn't a really attractive mindset for the minor vassals and commoners living there.

Lu Feng has no obligation to help random people in the Sect? He's just a student.

A liege does have an obligation to protect their vassals so that's a very different situation. We do know from Ji Rong that the WT isn't safe enough for people's lieges to actually do that but there does appear to be a system to at least prepare them for the sorts of threats they might face.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Lu Feng was actually fine with being left out to dry if that meant that his liege was able to defeat the enemy. For a given value of "fine", of course.

FallenPears · Nov 21, 2021

JohnnieBoy123 said:
Lu Feng has no obligation to help random people in the Sect? He's just a student.

A liege does have an obligation to protect their vassals so that's a very different situation. We do know from Ji Rong that the WT isn't safe enough for people's lieges to actually do that but there does appear to be a system to at least prepare them for the sorts of threats they might face.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Lu Feng was actually fine with being left out to dry if that meant that his liege was able to defeat the enemy. For a given value of "fine", of course.

Although it isn't a formal obligation, it is considered a Noble's duty to help mortals and mortals were absolutely in danger, so there was something of an informal societal expectation. Even beyond the obvious moral bankruptcy of his actions, it isn't a good look for a Noble of the Empire.

Not terrible of course, claiming he didn't want to interfere with other territories or whatever would get him a pass, but yeah, combined with what he was doing while others were assisting mortals (as opposed to say 'standing ready' to assist if requested) this is definitely not a good look.

Yun · Nov 21, 2021

Doramas said:
But I thought that the bond levels represented more how the others felt toward Ling Qi? The explanation from the informational talks about how much they are willing to help Ling Qi, at least.

No it represent a mutual relationship at the personal level.

Personal relationships use the same scale, but represent a mutual relationship between two individuals. The scale used is similar but but obviously modified for the individual.

JammingforHam · Nov 21, 2021

Lu Feng and GG are smack talking each other in the middle of one of their fights. They're both going to portray each other in as negative light as possible. LF's actions during the attack are to attack and take over GG alliance's stuff. It could be that he gave the order before realizing the full extent of the issues facing the mortals.

However it is wrong (imo) of him at the very least to keep what he gained from the theft after learning what GG and his alliance did. Taking something from an adversary when they are not paying attention is completely acceptable; taking something from another when they are off fighting an existential threat to mortals (and possibly the Empire) is absolutely wrong.

Orkus Majorkus · Nov 21, 2021

I did defend Lu Feng some but on the other hand it aint a great look for the guy who is ostensibly trying to get into the officers school of the military he is in to have gone looting his classmates during a emergency rather than help out and instead laugh at his opponent who did help.

It's not a kill shot against him as Outer Sect is still in Lord of the Flies mode but probably got some frowns too

LucidProp · Nov 21, 2021

Lu Feng's actions in the outer sect is damning to his moral character, even in a place as callous as the empire. The Sect is a microscom of the Empire, the noble scions are expected to band together when the Empire is faced by a outside threat. Instead of performing his duties however, Lu Feng decided to continue frolicking in the playground while his peers performed an adult's job.

So really, all that talk about him being a super cool realist who needs no ideals while Gan is a naive, idealist child? Really empty. Lu Feng is the one with a child's understanding of what his position requires of him, not Gan.

Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Red-White-Black-White

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