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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Like I said, the thing that bugs me about this is that if this was generalized dysphoria, we'd see a lot more of Su Ling shying away from the advantages her Spirit Blood gave her. We've seen that's anything but the case--she's regularly been seen taking advantage of her affinities, like her divination and (I think) her improved senses. We only really see the issue come to a head when she grows a new tail--which she's getting pretty close to at this point if I'm not mistaken.

If it was genuine dysphoria, I'd be all for her cutting it away. But Su Ling is famously private--especially about Deep Feeling stuff--and that makes this tough to suss out. It's hard to tell if she's doing it out of spite and trauma (Which is a pretty bad reason to do anything this invasive to yourself), or if she genuinely can't feel comfortable with her body (Which is a perfectly good reason to do it.)

It's not like she hasn't had success in altering the nature of her Spirit Blood either--if I'm not mistaken, she managed to adjust her Affinities thanks to her triple-crit breakthrough into Third Realm. So going from that to "I want to completely cut it off" is kind of abrupt from our perspective--which, to be fair, isn't amazing because we don't interact as much as some might like.
 
I also don't think LQ is necessarily a "the best path is to be happy with the way things are" person.

Like, she's very much inclined to change things to make them better for her. We even have an insight on it!

I think that from her perspective not liking something is a valid reason to remove it, and it doesn't necessarily matter why you don't like it. The main counterbalance is other factors like "is it necessary to do this to gain power and security and thus ultimately greater happiness?"

I don't really see Su Ling being emotionally harmed long term by not being spirit-blooded (assuming everything works fine ofc), so I don't see that as a concern. I think the cultivation and power implications are what would be salient for LQ due to how she relates them to the long term pursuit of happiness.
 
Yeah, not going anywhere near this thread for this vote

[] If Su Ling truly desired to rid herself of her mother's traits, so be it. She hoped Su Ling would be careful and seek advice and help if she was going to undertake such a project though.
 
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that scene was so cool! I really liked how Yao was communicated as "The Black Viper's family arts" including that 8 eyes like a centipede. Just a really cool-

SU LING

SU LING IS HERE

JUSTICE

HELL YEAH SUYIN YOU GO SUYIN

Alright. Rejecting her Spirit Blood? Hmm. Reflex is:
[] Su Ling was doing well already, she had already turned her blood to her own purposes. Why waste something you had already stolen? Wasn't it a better revenge to use your enemy's tools against them?


because we're a walking tribulation for one meme. But on a more serious level of analysis, we challenge one another. Su Ling challenges us on the grounds of justice, and whether we can truly believe in a better world when we've seen such lows within it already. And we challenge her to say "Fuck that. I'll make a damn better world with the Power I can command." Ling Qi is practical, pragmatic, and oriented around Power rather than what the purpose of that Power is. Su Ling has had Powers from her spirit blood since she was young, and has been hurt and hurt others with that Power. She, instead, has meditated long and hard on "Why" and "For What Purpose" of Power. This has obstructed a route to straight Power like we pursued, but it's also what she wanted/needed in order to resocialize (which she's pretended to not enjoy).

No. In this context, at this juncture, we're supposed to push against Su Ling with a very practical "you already have these powers, and you've turned them to your own purposes, can't you do more good retaining the Power you didn't ask for than attempting to retroactively return them as some sort of long delayed Justice?"

We don't have the full context of what's making Su Ling uncomfortable, similar to how we didn't have the context for the discomfort around Bai Meizhen or Li Suyin's discomfort with those fleshcrafting Arts. We know Su Ling = Good. These Powers weren't hers, but they are now. More Power for Su Ling = More Power for Good. So, what's the hang up? Is it attempting to warp reality to better suit a Justice by taking no good from her Mother's Blood? Making sure she builds nothing that her Mother can say "you were able to do that good because of me"?

Bull. It's not her Mother's Blood. It's Su Ling's Blood. She gets to decide what to do with it, what good to do with it, and whether or not anybody gets to claim shared credit for any of her actions. Blood is no chain between people, just another sort of Bond to be slipped or shouldered as one wishes.

Chosen Family Su Ling. Fear no chains from some demon fox you've never met. She should fear Su Ling, a cultivator with a grudge against the one that robbed her of a father. 👏
 
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mmm, as a slightly different LQ angle you could have something like:

[] Su Ling should do whatever will make her the happiest in her life. She is doing well, and has gotten significant value from her natural techniques. The power they offer could be a valuable tool needed to achieve her goals, and that shouldn't be discarded lightly. If she doesn't feel they're doing that much though, and she really does not like them, then it makes sense to remove them, assuming the risk can be reasonably managed.
 
I mean.

The biggest issue here is that from what we know, Su Ling's underlying trauma has nothing to do with her Spirit Blood and everything to do with her mother being a complete fucking monster that needs to be killed, while Su Ling bears obvious signs of her descent so she can't pretend she isn't the spawn of a serial killer.

Cutting out her spirit blood doesn't actually make that go away, it's just treating a visible and unavoidable reminder of it. That might be good for her in the short term but it ultimately just papers over the issue and risks it coming up again later.
 
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Su Ling eventually is gonna have to make a decision about if her entire Way is just being the antithesis of her mom. Unfortunately she doesn't have any evidence to the contrary yet.

Foisting her on Lin Hai makes even more sense, both to expose her to other types of foxes and also somebody who has changed who they were. Certainly has nothing to do with my desire to see her eye twitch at all times while suffering through Lin Hai being awesome.
 
GlassMask said:
[] If Su Ling truly desired to rid herself of her mother's traits, so be it. She hoped Su Ling would be careful and seek advice and help if she was going to undertake such a project though.

Personally as a trans woman, I find it hard to judge a girl for wanting a bit of surgery.
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Im also a trans woman and I dont see this as really the same sort of thing as being trans. Being trans is a inherent incompatibility with our assigned genders due to various factors, mostly just brain stuff. but what Su Ling is going through is 10000% trauma related. removing her spirit blood wont solve that trauma. the better recourse here is to help her work through the underlying trauma rather than perform an extremely risky surgery that will not fix that trauma. Su Ling is attempting to fix the symptoms, not the cause. when fixing the cause will inherently negate the symptoms
 
Erebeal said:
I also don't think LQ is necessarily a "the best path is to be happy with the way things are" person.

Like, she's very much inclined to change things to make them better for her. We even have an insight on it!

I think that from her perspective not liking something is a valid reason to remove it, and it doesn't necessarily matter why you don't like it. The main counterbalance is other factors like "is it necessary to do this to gain power and security and thus ultimately greater happiness?"

I don't really see Su Ling being emotionally harmed long term by not being spirit-blooded (assuming everything works fine ofc), so I don't see that as a concern. I think the cultivation and power implications are what would be salient for LQ due to how she relates them to the long term pursuit of happiness.
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I mean, Ling Qi also made her Isolation so much a part of her she integrated into her domain so it would never change but I wouldn't say it makes her happy.
 
[] Su Ling was doing well already, she had already turned her blood to her own purposes. Why waste something you had already stolen? Wasn't it a better revenge to use your enemy's tools against them?

If you really think about it, genetics is basically a heist.

More seriously, we already know that cultivating to green will take care of things like gender dysmorphia, and more generally will make your appearance match your self conception. So I think this is something more complicated than "Su Ling is a human in a foxgirl's body." I personally think it's something along the lines of her hatred of her mother leading to her hating anything that reminds her of her mother, which is more a trauma response than an issue of self conception. So I think this option is more likely to lead to Su Ling confronting how her hatred of her mother has led to her own self loathing, and I think that will be more helpful for her in the long run.
 
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Orkus Majorkus said:
I mean, Ling Qi also made her Isolation so much a part of her she integrated into her domain so it would never change but I wouldn't say it makes her happy.
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Well no. It's her core motivator. She enshrines it as what she doesn't want to do so that she always remembers to do what is needed to not end up weak and alone again (cultivate, make friends).

Similarly, Su Ling is driven by the fear of "being a monster" which she tries to solve via heroism, compassion, and vengeance.
 
[] If Su Ling truly desired to rid herself of her mother's traits, so be it. She hoped Su Ling would be careful and seek advice and help if she was going to undertake such a project though.

The only real reason to go the other route, aside from pure pursuit of power, is if doing this will hurt her--and being supportive, and possibly giving her access to Ling Qi's greater resources, makes it more likely that she'll pursue this in a way that won't hurt her in the short or long-term. Hell, for all we know, there's a way to extract that power and use it in a way that's actively beneficial, in which case removing the tails seems like a bluntly superior choice to her.

This feels like a case of people overgeneralizing the circumstances of our world to fictional ones. Sure, it's important to accept yourself, even the parts you don't like--but if you're in a universe where you have the option to do otherwise, then it's absurd to pretend that lesson is universally relevant or meaningful to those people.
 
The problem with this is that fundamentally it started as a backlash against the tails as manifestations of 'fox-likeness' but if she starts cutting everything that is fox-like then it is very hard to say where Su Ling's way will end up and what things she'll end up losing.

Not to mention that a lot of her current abilities, including the divination that has allowed her to do many things and get rewards for it, are fox bloodline abilities so I'd say she's already in the path to start owning those things as hers.
 
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[X] Su Ling was doing well already, she had already turned her blood to her own purposes. Why waste something you had already stolen? Wasn't it a better revenge to use your enemy's tools against them?

This feels like one of those times that the correct thing is to be honest about your thoughts, even if it leads to confrontation.
 
We're not her parent. She's been actively trying to tear out her new tails for over a year. This isn't just some new idea that she's come up with out of nowhere and needs someone to double check.

If someone's arm bothers them so much that they keep trying to tear it off, then I'd rather help them do it safely then half heartedly try and convince them not to.

[] If Su Ling truly desired to rid herself of her mother's traits, so be it. She hoped Su Ling would be careful and seek advice and help if she was going to undertake such a project though.
 
truth is by the end of green su ling has to either incorporate her heritage to her concrete self identity or discard it . Also about the cultivation issue I' m not sure that this is as simple as losing spirit blood being a loss of power . yeah she is losing the advantages the fox blood gives . but if her way is stable a sacrifice of this magnitude and the drive it requires will probably push her up in cultivation . if the problem is she is removing tails due to society's expectation's or because she is equaling her physical similarities to her mother as character similarities it is a problem . but i always read Su ling tail issue more like a scar or a tattoo or a some kind of physical marking which makes her remember her trauma and act like a trigger to drag out her memories . tails keeps reminding her of a traumatic past .
 
I am all for providing all possible aid for Su Ling to do her self surgery succesfully.
But at first i would rather try to help her deal with her trauma in ways that do not involve dangerous experiemtal self surgery.
 
Erebeal said:
Well no. It's her core motivator. She enshrines it as what she doesn't want to do so that she always remembers to do what is needed to not end up weak and alone again (cultivate, make friends).

Similarly, Su Ling is driven by the fear of "being a monster" which she tries to solve via heroism, compassion, and vengeance.
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I don't think that distinction matters, in regards to enshrining a concept that is about the feeling of being alone. She'll never not feel it, even though she always will take steps to fill the void it is impossible, such is it's nature as Darkness.
 
[] Su Ling was doing well already, she had already turned her blood to her own purposes. Why waste something you had already stolen? Wasn't it a better revenge to use your enemy's tools against them?

Both choices hit something of a false note for me, the real question is whether Su Ling is comfortable in her own skin.
 
Anderein said:
[] If Su Ling truly desired to rid herself of her mother's traits, so be it. She hoped Su Ling would be careful and seek advice and help if she was going to undertake such a project though.

The only real reason to go the other route, aside from pure pursuit of power, is if doing this will hurt her--and being supportive, and possibly giving her access to Ling Qi's greater resources, makes it more likely that she'll pursue this in a way that won't hurt her in the short or long-term. Hell, for all we know, there's a way to extract that power and use it in a way that's actively beneficial, in which case removing the tails seems like a bluntly superior choice to her.

This feels like a case of people overgeneralizing the circumstances of our world to fictional ones. Sure, it's important to accept yourself, even the parts you don't like--but if you're in a universe where you have the option to do otherwise, then it's absurd to pretend that lesson is universally relevant or meaningful to those people.
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it was stated in the story right at the end that while removing spirit blood is possible, its very very risky and can seriously harm your cultivation base (or was implied atleast). this isnt a case of "well you would only choose the first option for power" ... the second option can seriously hurt her short and long term (It would probably be a dice roll with low odds). and even then, it STILL doesn't solve her underlying trauma, it wont make her happy at all, she just thinks it will due to a severe disdain of her mother
 
[] Su Ling was doing well already, she had already turned her blood to her own purposes. Why waste something you had already stolen? Wasn't it a better revenge to use your enemy's tools against them?

Objectively, it's a bad idea. Subjectively it might feel worth doing, but in the long run she'll benefit much more from taking the long way around and adapting mentally, even if it'll end up being harder or less satisfying. Since this is apparently up for discussion still, and the protagonist is in position to provide outside perspective, it's best to be the voice of reason for now - emotional support time will come later, when Su Ling commits to a choice.
 
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