Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Also guys, even if LQ is just talking about the Ice people as a way to show which faction she leans towards rather than what the actual approach will be, she still needs to frame her argument in an intelligent way. Say it really is just hypothetical. How she frames her argument will still portray her intelligence and ability to articulate her ideas...The military option is the only one that is practical or feasible to act on. Appearing to back other options that are logistically impossible may make her seem kinda air headed, naive and silly.
 
I must admit being a little nervous at cheesing off the Diao and Lingqin in particular. Her whole domain is a vast rose bed that strangles any new sprouts that try to come up in her territory. She might not move directly against CRX but uh we're not CRX and there's only so much protection we can get from being a retainer when a prism frowns at us and wants to cause us problems.
 
Last edited:
Also guys, even if LQ is just talking about the Ice people as a way to show which faction she leans towards rather than what the actual approach will be, she still needs to frame her argument in an intelligent way. Say it really is just hypothetical. How she frames her argument will still portray her intelligence and ability to articulate her ideas...The military option is the only one that is practical or feasible to act on. Appearing to back other options that are logistically impossible may make her seem kinda air headed, naive and silly.
Not relevant to the vote at all.

But if you insist on bringing this stuff into things then why is Ling Qi suggesting literally the most basic and obvious military strategy in all of history going to make her seem more articulate and intelligent instead of just getting a "Well duh" response from the court?
 
Man, I feel ya. I really really do. Heres to hoping no more discussions become toxic and there's no accusing anyone of not caring about Zhengui...
Not saying it's wrong to feel this way, but I've found it weird how much people stick on this point. That accusation only ever got pushed by a tiny fringe minority, and fixating on it seems like it's empowering them more than anything, at this point.
 
Okay, I'm going to have to vote military over culture then. IMO that just isn't enough knowledge to go in front of the most important court in the province for the first time and use some (from her perspective) large leaps of logic to argue her case. It's a shame, I like the culture more from a meta standpoint, but the evidence she is putting forward is pretty circumstantial (literally based entirely on seeing one person). Not that I think Yrs would do this, but the culture argument is easily shot down by someone simply asking her if she's sure the inferences she's made apply to the rest of the culture as well.
There's another thing to consider for Qi to speculate if ice ladies have a civilization.

1 the fact they exist at all in and we're negotiating with the cloud tribe means they couldn't be assimilated or destroyed by the cloud tribes
2 they were speaking of a mega project/super structure aka Koliada and wanted more people to help finish it whatever it may be
3 They offered sanctuary to us which means together with the above their pretty confident and powerful enough to make good on their word
 
But if you insist on bringing this stuff into things then why is Ling Qi suggesting literally the most basic and obvious military strategy in all of history going to make her seem more articulate and intelligent instead of just getting a "Well duh" response from the court?

The divide and conquer route is obvious yes, but at the moment no one knows there is even a chance to do so. That's what we are bringing up, that this new tribe is different, and with these differences comes opportunity.

Obviously the stratagem itself is nothing new, but the idea that the barbarian clan in question is different enough to the others may well be.
 
[X] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)
 
I kinda wanna see what happens to mud boi's village later.

Might just probably nothing.

Then what about his "friend" from a year before if that dude read the list of names.
 
Last edited:
[X] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)
 
Not relevant to the vote at all.

But if you insist on bringing this stuff into things then why is Ling Qi suggesting literally the most basic and obvious military strategy in all of history going to make her seem more articulate and intelligent instead of just getting a "Well duh" response from the court?
Has yrs said on Discord or something that this vote is just about how Ling Qi looks at court and the vote won't influence chance of success? Because while I'm currently voting based on that I've gotta admit that there's a bit of doubt in the back of my mind that it's the less persuasive argument and Ling Qi will shift court opinions but get shotdown as a result, and if there's WoG that I don't need to worry about that it'd be nice to have.
 
Has yrs said on Discord or something that this vote is just about how Ling Qi looks at court and the vote won't influence chance of success? Because while I'm currently voting based on that I've gotta admit that there's a bit of doubt in the back of my mind that it's the less persuasive argument and Ling Qi will shift court opinions but get shotdown as a result, and if there's WoG that I don't need to worry about that it'd be nice to have.
He has confirmed that there won't be dice involved, which isn't quite the same thing as "the argument doesn't change odds of success," but is suggestive. On the meta level, he did say that one of the reasons he redid the chapter was because the last vote was too fear-driven, which implies that he wanted to avoid a fear-driven vote this time. So I conclude from this that this vote is mostly just about what impression we make at court: Shenhua is going to decide what happens based on Shenhua's own goals and priorities, but what we say will shape how the various court factions think of us.
 
Has yrs said on Discord or something that this vote is just about how Ling Qi looks at court and the vote won't influence chance of success? Because while I'm currently voting based on that I've gotta admit that there's a bit of doubt in the back of my mind that it's the less persuasive argument and Ling Qi will shift court opinions but get shotdown as a result, and if there's WoG that I don't need to worry about that it'd be nice to have.
Yeah, no rolls:
YrsillarYesterday at 3:11 AM
no not rolls
 
I think what it means is that it doesn't matter how a Green 3 phrases an argument, a White's court full of Violets and Prisms is not going to base any of their own arguments on it. The only thing that changes is how the families see the best retainer of the heir, whether Ling Qi will have interests aligned with theirs in the future.
 
[X] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)
 
Also guys, even if LQ is just talking about the Ice people as a way to show which faction she leans towards rather than what the actual approach will be, she still needs to frame her argument in an intelligent way. Say it really is just hypothetical. How she frames her argument will still portray her intelligence and ability to articulate her ideas...The military option is the only one that is practical or feasible to act on. Appearing to back other options that are logistically impossible may make her seem kinda air headed, naive and silly.
Not relevant to the vote at all.
...in what way is that not relevant?

We are voting on what argument we are presenting to the court. What sort of impression this will convey of us seems entirely relevant.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by GlassMask on Aug 16, 2020 at 11:15 PM, finished with 327 posts and 140 votes.
 
...in what way is that not relevant?

We are voting on what argument we are presenting to the court. What sort of impression this will convey of us seems entirely relevant.
It's not relevant because every argument will be presented in an intelligent way.
Every option is valid, approved and coached beforehand by CRX, we are not going to mess this no matter which we pick.
This is about who we are, and more importantly, who the court thinks we are, and who we are naturally aligned with.
 
It's not relevant because every argument will be presented in an intelligent way.
Every option is valid, approved and coached beforehand by CRX, we are not going to mess this no matter which we pick.
That is fantasy logic.
It might still apply, since this is a forum quest vote and not an actual real-world decision, but to the degree that we want to treat the quest as being realistic, we can't simply assume that all options are going to have us presenting an equally good argument. CRX's involvement means that whatever argument we make will be well crafted, but if some of the options are intrinsically more compelling than others then that will remain the case even CRX has had a chance to help us with their presentation.

I suppose CRX's involvement makes it unlikely for us to come off as truly terrible; like you said, every option is valid. But "valid" is a pretty wide range; it is entirely possible for some valid options to be worse than others. It is dangerous to assume that the options are all of equal quality; indeed, part of our job as voters is to pick options that we think are better ideas.
 
[X] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)

Maybe it was her tone, but when Renxiang opened her eyes, Ling Qi thought she saw a hint of dread there, even with the radiance shining from her pupils.
...She wasn't that bad, was she?
You totes are, Ling Qi.
 
That is fantasy logic.
It might still apply, since this is a forum quest vote and not an actual real-world decision, but to the degree that we want to treat the quest as being realistic, we can't simply assume that all options are going to have us presenting an equally good argument. CRX's involvement means that whatever argument we make will be well crafted, but if some of the options are intrinsically more compelling than others then that will remain the case even CRX has had a chance to help us with their presentation.

I suppose CRX's involvement makes it unlikely for us to come off as truly terrible; like you said, every option is valid. But "valid" is a pretty wide range; it is entirely possible for some valid options to be worse than others. It is dangerous to assume that the options are all of equal quality; indeed, part of our job as voters is to pick options that we think are better ideas.

You're focusing on "coach" instead of on "approved." Ling Qi's actions reflect on CRX, and to an increasingly larger degree as Ling Qi distinguishes herself; CRX is not going to risk her entire future because we're attached to one line of argument. If we wanted something and all arguments for it sucked, she wouldn't say "okay, just this once," not when it means that weak argument's going up in front of Shenhua. She'd tell us to get in line or stay home, and Ling Qi doesn't get to argue.

It's basically the Weak Anthropic Principle: if the argument wasn't up to a high level of quality, then we wouldn't be up here making it, because she wouldn't have let us come with her. Therefore, all the arguments are a high level of quality.
 
for the 6 factions available
: : :
The Wang and Jia respect Militant Action. Wang Chao commented on our military accomplishments positively, and said something to the effect of "I don't much respect the infirm and unserious, but it seems you are quite capable of seriousness" in regards to our willingness to buckle down and harden up.

This is an action that will be relatively easy to accomplish as far as I'm aware. We fight smart, and we fight hard. Most of our build is currently focused on the battlefield, and performing many roles quite well. So long as we continue being a powerhouse, this should be a pairing we can cultivate up with a bit of rumormill making sure the right information gets to the right ears.
: : :
the Meng and Luo like Culture actions, things with long history of precedent and slow, difficult implementations. Meng has been absent from proceedings. Luo Hunts have been passively churning in the background. We have been enjoying them to an extent, but they have not made a +1 impression with the Luo.

This is an action that will be relatively difficult and time consuming. The good news is that thread seems to want to take this as a direction. That's good, because it's going to be long and hard in order to change their minds. This is also not likely a firm positive impression once won. Meng in particular is a clan that Shenhua is having a hard time pulling into alignment.
: : :
the Bao and Diao like Mercantile considerations and profitable endeavors. Both are ambitious trade clans. We have not seen Diao so far, and know that Linqin personally has a mild problem with Renxiang. Bao was very kind to us at the tournament, stepping aside to speak with us. Meizhen is dating Bao Qingling, and we are in a business arrangement with Bao Qian.

This is an action that will be something we need to do and is, conveniently, something we also like to do. Make Money. Both clans seem to regard mercantile actions pretty positively. Because mercantilism is fairly mundane, I would expect only especially clever, ambitious, or personally-connected successful deals to give positive association. I believe that we can influence these two reasonably well, but the -1 might be hard to overcome. I think we'll end up working on that at some point down the line.
: : :
Hopefully the ambitious and mercantile nature of the Diao can outweigh their desire for imperial cultural reforms. So long as we make things profitable enough for them, they might respect us anyway in the long run.

If we can get that, I think a +1 for all 6 even while we focus on the culture (Meng and Luo) isn't impossible. Improbable? Ambitious? Yeah.

but maybe. We have a Way that is very flexible/adaptable, and I think it currently (without trying) has elements that could appeal to each of the six. We could show a sincere facet of ourselves that each would approve of without lying or manipulating, and we're secretive enough that each could look at us and see a different face!
Like the MOOOONN
*ahem* uh. Yeah. Hopefully we can be like the Moon and be many different aspects of self for many different peoples. I look forward to assisting Renxiang in the unity of the province, and hope that this war is able to be won without additional dire losses. Praise the Moon
 
Last edited:
[X] To appeal to military pragmatism. If their enemies were divided there was no need to unite them. (+Wang, +Jia approval, -Meng approval)
 
It's basically the Weak Anthropic Principle: if the argument wasn't up to a high level of quality, then we wouldn't be up here making it, because she wouldn't have let us come with her. Therefore, all the arguments are a high level of quality.
Ah, but that doesn't imply that all the arguments are equally good. It is entirely possible for some of the arguments to have downsides, even significant ones, as long as the net effect passes an acceptance threshold.

We aren't going to be ruining our and CRX's futures here - but we can definitely form an impression that is better or worse here, even aside from impact wrt appealing to certain clans over others.
 
Back
Top