Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I kind of like the barbarian option better narratively from a pacing standpoint, but I do agree with that the underground is more interesting tactically (and maybe even narratively? ).

Let me explain why I like the barbarian option:

1) In many ways, Ling Qi's heroic efforts against the first major barbarian incursion was a demonstration of both her personal power as well as her inexperience. She chased barbarians away but never quote managed to score a convincing win against them. Like sure, she killed a bunch, but the results were mostly inconclusive.

2) It put a spotlight on all the glaring deficiencies in her own personal philosophies: from her views on family to the meaning of heroism and self-sacrifice and even the role she plays in times of war.

Narratively, then, it'd be satisfying for her to come back and demonstrate just how much progress she has made. Her field effects are far more potent, she's wargamed with Zhengui and can coordinate better with him and her personal defenses have been jacked through the roof. CRX and her working in tandem would call back to that initial bandit raid too.

It's a reasonable place for the narrative to go.

On the other hand...

There are no good memories of the underground. CRX got puppeted by her dress, Ling Qi is literally part dream, Zhengui lost one of his dreams, and fourth realm enemies hit others with forced pain gestalts...

The likelihood of things going pear-shaped and for another Rita Repulsa 'Make My Monster Grow' moment to happen seems fairly high, especially since the Shishigui have a combat doctrine that makes them go in hard. Being able to triumph there would be frigging great though.
Well it may not be pleasant to remember but LQ has a lot to be proud of in the underground mission. She fulfilled the mission objective and placed the spy bugs in enemy territory. She friggin saved the lives of everyone on the team. later she finally took a leap of faith and put her trust in her spirits and friends. I got the feeling that LQ feels she accomplished an amount of things on the underground mission, at least as much as her mission defending the villages against barbs. Actually in the latter case, she was left feeling unsatisfied w the outcome against the barbs bc she's LQ and her standards r ridiculously high. I dont think there was a moment like that in the underground mission.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Lena27 on Jul 15, 2020 at 3:18 AM, finished with 206 posts and 98 votes.
 
[X] Assault the Cloud Tribe Ritual Site (Offensive Mission, Objectives: Kill and capture enemy combatants, gather intelligence, Survive)

One other part this that hasn't been mentioned, is this mission very much fits Ling Qi's war is a heist view. I can see her organizing this exactly like a heist and having it work. Also I'm sure there are plenty of ways for Zhengui to help all we need is her, and our commanders, to be a little creative their plans.
 
[] Assault the Cloud Tribe Ritual Site (Offensive Mission, Objectives: Kill and capture enemy combatants, gather intelligence, Survive)

I want to be part of the group that gathers intelligence, It will be easier to access those due to CRX if we participate directly. That will allow more informed choices in the future.
 
I would rather people not use Zhengui as a trump argument for choosing defense. This came up in the duel vote as well. Teamwork doesn't mean they need to fight right alongside each other. LQ's promise to her spirits was to work together in a fight, not stay glued to each other. I don't think anyone wants to argue for the implication that because of ZG, Ling Qi has lost all tactical and strategic flexibility. Some yes, but not all.

Defense is not the only thing he's good at either. Now that Zhen has some actual range on him, he can work as slow moving artillery and defense point. Combine with Gui's roots and walls, that makes him an excellent disruptor of enemy actions. Which he can perform both on defense and offense. Is he less effective on offense than defense? Yes, but he's not hopeless at it.
 
[X] Assault the Cloud Tribe Ritual Site (Offensive Mission, Objectives: Kill and capture enemy combatants, gather intelligence, Survive)
 
[X] Defend the Geomantic Forts (Defensive Mission, Objective: Hold the Line, Defend production students, Survive)
 
[X] Assault the Cloud Tribe Ritual Site (Offensive Mission, Objectives: Kill and capture enemy combatants, gather intelligence, Survive)
 
So... let's see what Zhengui can and cannot use if his foes go completely airborne (and abandon the ritual site).

- He's a massive tank, but he's also too obviously a massive tank. They most likely won't waste hits on him, and will instead focus on either trying to escape or fighting the assets capable of catching them.
- The entirety of blooming From Ash becomes basically useless, after the ritual site has been disrupted/destroyed. All the enemy has to do is not come within 10 feet of the ground, and there's not a bit of it that can hit them.
- Out of Blazing Blood, three abilities (Boiling Blood Venom, Volcanic Stone Shell, and Paradise Forge) are basically meaningless unless the enemy gets too close to the ground and/or engages him in close combat. Ashfall is still in play as long as the enemy isn't flying too high or too far away, and Boilign Shot and Volcanic Shot are still available (though he has to pick one or the other on any given turn)
- The only meaningful power out of Verdant Ash Duality is Ashfield Flowering. It's nice and all, but it really isn't much.

So, basically, it turns him from a badass bastion to... an unimpressive turret that's not worth the bother to attack. He's got gobs of synergy, both internal to his arts and with us, and he can't use any of it. Sure, we can redeploy him, but we can't redeploy him to anywhere other than the ground, and if the enemy is staying 15 or more feet in the air, and far enough away from him that a bite cant' reach, he really doesn't have a lot to offer.

If we go Offensive, there's a very good chance that Zhengui will be largely useless in the fight, and that we'll have to leave him behind. Worse yet, that's a have to. We can't afford to do poorly on this expedition. We need the sect status, and we're going to be backing up CRX, who also needs the sect status. Further, it's an important political statement about CRX and her ability to succeed and dominate the battlefield with the aid of her personally selected handmaiden. If this one comes down to "mission vs Zhengui" we're going to straight-up have to choose the mission, and with the Offensive mission, it is highly likely that that will happen. We pretty much promised not to do that once upon a time, didn't we? Straight-up, if we go offensive on this one, there's a good chance that it will damage us, when we are forced to do something that tears at our heart. Let's not set ourselves up for that.

Instead, we can have the hilarity of letting the enemy try to zerg rush into the Ling Qi/Zhengui killing field morass... and then let the Glorious Searing Purity of the Cai be the prize they get for finally making it through. To me? That sounds pretty satisfying.
 
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[X] Assault the Cloud Tribe Ritual Site (Offensive Mission, Objectives: Kill and capture enemy combatants, gather intelligence, Survive)
 
Important note: The Assault the Cloud Tribe doesn't have "destroy the ritual site" on it's list of objective. That makes it that much more likely that they *will* be willing to abandon it and head for the skies. This isn't a "disrupt this ritual" task. It's a "take out these dudes" task... and Zhengui is really bad at taking out this particular variety of dude.
 
I would like to remind everyone about this.
"The region you all have been assigned contains three major landmarks and five settlements," Guan Zhi began without pre-amble. Her voice was crisp and clear. "For the next week, the safety of it's inhabitants will be in the hands of you and your counterparts. While this is normally not a terribly arduous task, a number of factors lead the Sect to believe that trouble may arise. Firstly tribesman have been spotted in greater numbers than is normal throughout the year, and this has not tapered off. Secondly, a new mine and its attendant village is currently under construction and development, meaning that there is a gap in our defenses and potential for trouble with the spirits of the mountain. It is suspected that the barbarians may strike there specifically, as records indicate that some local tribes once used it as a site for certain rites."
The last place I remember being described as a ritual site for the Cloud tribe was Icebreaker Peak, which you know had a lovecraftian horror in it. This makes me concerned.

It also shows me that the cloud tribes value their ritual sites and makes me doubt that they would just run away if one is attacked.
 
Something that Black Noise mentioned before that, I think, bear repeating: Ling Qi is going to be in the ES for the long term, and Cloud Tribes are going to be long term enemies.

If the arguments that Zhengui is useless in a assault against them, I don't think the answer should be "never try to assault them", but instead "check if that theory is in fact correct, then decide whether we are going to give up on potential assaults against them and just play defence/defence building like Wang Chao wants, or if we want to see how we can rectify that".

Ling Qi and Zhengui are still at the point where they are correcting flaws in their styles, so them being aware of such flaws is, I think, important. Also if Zhengui can actually work well for assault and capture it's good to know too.
 
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If the arguments that Zhengui is useless in a assault against them, I don't think the answer should be "never try to assault them", but instead "check if that theory is in fact correct, then decide whether we are going to give up on potential assaults against them and just play defence/defence building like Wang Chao wants, or if we want to see how we can rectify that".
Assaulting nomads is always stupid though-unless we bring something specifically designed to stop them from flying, or they are so dumb they actually care for this ritual site enough to die for it, fighting us in the sort of pitched battle that favors all imperial strengths and is completely unwinnable for them. That is to say, if we either outmaneuver them so completely they have no recourse, or get them to commit assisted suicide over a patch of rock.

There is a reason Wang Chao, who is not a complete moron and comes from a family with practical experience, said the strategy is to never go after them and instead build fortifications to make them come to you. Normally, neither of the above possibilities is likely.
 
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Assaulting nomads is always stupid though-unless we bring something specifically designed to stop them from flying, or they are so dumb they actually care for this ritual site enough to die for it, fighting us in the sort of pitched battle that favors all imperial strengths and is completely unwinnable for them.

There is a reason Wang Chao, who is not a complete moron and comes from a family with practical experience, said the strategy is to never go after them and instead build fortifications to make them come to you.

In conclusion, if they let us get the upper hand on them this battle will be quick and disappointing. If not they'll run.
Given that Cai seems to have arts and methods to stop the Barbarians from running, it seems very likely that they will be forced to fight regardless of whether they would prefer to run or not.

Also, given that this is an Imperial strike at the Barbarians, it seems extremely reasonable to assume that the Sect would stack the cards as much as possible in their favor, including striking at locations that intelligence indicates the Barbarians would fight to protect.
 
[X] Defend the Geomantic Forts (Defensive Mission, Objective: Hold the Line, Defend production students, Survive)
 
Given that Cai seems to have arts and methods to stop the Barbarians from running, it seems very likely that they will be forced to fight regardless of whether they would prefer to run or not.

Also, given that this is an Imperial strike at the Barbarians, it seems extremely reasonable to assume that the Sect would stack the cards as much as possible in their favor, including striking at locations that intelligence indicates the Barbarians would fight to protect.
Well true. But this says nothing about Zhengui's general utility when fighting barbarians. Any imperial of the same power can kill an already grounded barbarian, since flight is a huge part of all their strategies and when they don't have it they are basically crippled.

In normal circumstances, running straight into a barbarian campsite with our giant tortoise won't achieve much.
 
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Well, we DO have that new art to throw targets closer to Zhengui, so its not like he's gonna be conpletely useless.

Also Zhengui is the perfect hardpoint for all the other cultivators to hide behind (maybe archery-focused ones or something). After all, if we do get sent against barbarians, I would expect to be given the capability to counter or retaliate against the most common advantage of said barbarians.

And lastly, before the boneheaded arguments @s me, keep in mind that I am currently Voting for Defense.
 
Well true. But this says nothing about Zhengui's general utility when fighting barbarians. Any imperial of the same power can kill an already grounded barbarian, since flight is a huge part of all their strategies and when they don't have it they are basically crippled.

In normal circumstances, running straight into a barbarian campsite with our giant tortoise won't achieve much.
Good thing these are not normal circumstances, nor is this a normal barbarian campsite then.
 
[X] Assault the Cloud Tribe Ritual Site (Offensive Mission, Objectives: Kill and capture enemy combatants, gather intelligence, Survive)
 
I'm unsure when exactly the mission will take place. But this turn we are probably maxing war and this may be good opportunity to get advanced skill.

Also statsheet was not updated.

War 4d6+8
2, 2, 2, 5+8= 19
30/20 Rank C achieved

[X] Assault the Cloud Tribe Ritual Site (Offensive Mission, Objectives: Kill and capture enemy combatants, gather intelligence, Survive)
 
This is also going to be a consistent factor against exploration, because there aren't any long term goals people will accept exploration being a precursor to. Meanwhile, there are long term plans for having a fief of our own and acting as part of CRX's court, so this same line of logic will be pushing for investment into things like fief-building skills or more social actions to manage opinions and politics.

Okay, so I've wanted to ask for a while: where is the idea of us "managing our fief" coming from? I'm pretty sure that's what hired administrators are for, while the kid noble's job is to play artillery and intrigue on the outside. Sure, maybe if Ling Qi was into management she'd go for it, but she's visibly not. The most "managing the fief" I can imagine her doing is the tense and exciting vote of "ask Cai Renxiang to send an inspector over or nah"

CRX has explicitly stated that we are going to do our years of military service in her fief.

This is a bureaucracy driven issue. We are, formally, going to be assigned as "doing military service in her fief". That absolutely doesn't mean we're going to actually do anything remotely like what the Sect's forces are doing. Even in real life militaries there are plenty of non-combat roles, and in a world where the inconvenient military draft is getting in the way of nobles picking their retinues oh wait it isn't because they can just announce the draftee is serving with them?

Yeah, Ling Qi could have the job of the court wine taster and it would be written down as military service.

Ling Qi has been taught to dehumanize barbarians to the point that Wang Chao suggesting they are people makes her uncomfortable. Like, they can be made part of the Empire, part of its people, living indistinguishably and considered the same group as her. This blurring of the lines of who barbarians are and who people are is confusing. She knows Cloud Tribesmen are people but she considers them more as like the alien, man eating, filth cultivating ratmen than as people people that just live adjacently.

I think Ling Qi is already getting over that, and that's WHY this is making her uncomfortable. She'd rather not think about what her first guess about the bag content of the shaman she'd fought was. She'd rather not consider that this means it was his land and his revenge is fully justified by internal imperial morals. She'd rather not wonder how close her own barbarian heritage is.

She'd rather not question whether she's on the right side in this war. It's uncomfortable and weird and she cannot do anything productive to help.

Yeah, this was a girl who just about a year ago saw what was obviously the bow that a man had been teaching his young son to use before his sons death and kept it as a memento and thought "huh undersized bow,weird ritual implement"

I'm pretty sure her thoughts were more like "um is this - nonono, I'm sure it's just a ritual implement, yeah, that must be it"

I'm a Royal Road reader who came here when Threads was in full swing and I don't really remember how it was in the original Forge? Maybe I remember that from the Royal Road.

But Ling Qi definitely had the thought that she then immediately forcibly pushed away because NOPE
 
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