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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Arkeus said:
Both of your arguments were about how now is not the time. I didn't "lump them together", I talked about how now was the time. My answer was simply about how this exact type of argument about when is the best time will always means now is not the time. I don't really appreciate snide comment about trying to pretend I am making a travesty of your argument, either.

You can say that you don't like being dragged in front of your peers and have your personal problems aired out, but I never claimed the opposite. I just said it will just end up with never having such a talk, because [this is important but X means we can't do it now] exactly what has happened every single votes we had about Zhengui since the middle of last thread.

As is, I still don't get why you think talking to Alingge would be airing Zhengui's dirty laundry either.
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The only way both arguments were about time is that both used the word time. My whole argument is based on respect and not jumping into a heart to heart cold turkey. You can't just tell someone "Hey here is someone we sorta of know now lets talk about our problems" and expect that to go over well. There should be a process. You have to tell them that you think there are some problems. Then you have to ask them to have a conversation about it. Then you have to set up a time to have that conversation. This is what I would want from people I know so this is what I want to give Zhengui.

I see this conversation with Aliggne going one of three ways: Either we shove Zhengui with the other spirit beasts and then throw up a conversation barrier to prevent those spirit beasts from overhearing the serious things being talked about, we do need to talk about serious things or no real progress is going to be made, thus disrespecting Zhengui by keeping him out of a conversation that he deserves to be a part of. Or we include Zhengui into the conversation shielding everyone else out thus preventing him from the secondary goal of increased social tries. Or we are so oblique about the topic matter that we don't need to shield the conversation and no progress gets done anyway because of the communication barriers set in place purposely. There is also the concern I have that if we shield a conversation from the surrounding spirit beasts they will get nosy and eavesdrop in. You clearly have a vastly different vision of how the conversation will go and that's fine, but don't try and twist my argument into one about the amount of time to spend with Zhengui when it isn't. My argument is about respecting Zhengui. For real progress to be had we need a heart to heart with Zhengui and being surrounded by strangers is quite possible the worst venue I can think of for such a conversation.
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While I am here I might as well go off on a small tangent. I am sick of people thinking that spending more time with Zhengui or getting an art that connects to him better will solve the roadblocks, hurdles, and snares the relationship has developed. I don't believe they will. Those will just bury the problems and leave them to fester as people clap each other on the back and say "Fixed!" Trying to spend more time or having an exact art to connect with Zhengui is just trying to bury the problem by becoming 'busier'. It does nothing to solve the underlying issues. I would love to spend more time or have an art that connects deeply with Zhengui. But I don't think those will solve any of the problems. We desperately need a heart to heart with Zhengui. We need a conversation like we had with Sixiang when they were thinking of leaving. That conversation was a great example of a good heart to heart. We were told there needed to be a conversation. We were told when the conversation would happen. Then we had the conversation. The only problem I had with that heart to heart is that Yrs decided to wrap art training into it. I understand why but it seems to have given this thread the false idea that we need an art to have a heart to heart. That is not true. We don't need an art to have a heart to heart.

What we need is to tell Zhengui that we think there are some problems in the relationship. Then we tell Zhengui what we think the problems are. Then we need to tell him we would like to talk about it. Then we tell him when we would like to talk about it. Then we tell him where we would like to talk to him about it. Inviting a trusted neutral third party is also a good idea as it allows an outside perspective and helps communication flow smoothly, but we have to inform Zhengui who the third party will be and why they are there. We also need to set aside hours for this conversation. Like two or four hours. This helps prepare both parties for the conversation and helps set expectations. This is by far one of the best ways to solve serious problems in a relationship. The big problem is that we voters can't really vote on starting something like this since the changes in voting structure. It is all up to Ling Qi.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Jun 11, 2020 at 5:45 AM, finished with 311 posts and 139 votes.
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yrsillar said:
"Perhaps," he grumbled. It was almost comical, seeing him dangling from her arm like a leaf fluttering in the high wind. "I hope you will accept the sentiment regardless. Without your intervention, I do not think my path would have opened. I owe you a debt."
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@yrsillar : Could we ask Ru Nan is he knows a good darkness site? It would really help with this month cultivation and nicely allow him to discharge any debt. He has been in the inner sect longer then us and is likely to know a few sites.
 
storryeater said:
I liked your story, but this part didn't make much sense. Ling did place higher than him, but the Rong was also a commoner that made it in, it makes no sense for "the Ling" to be considered uniquely legendary simply for making it in her first year as a commoner.

Shen Hu also made it in as a commoner, although you can argue that discussion was about making it in as a commoner in your first year, in which case he wouldn't qualify

Edit: apparently I had forgotten that Shen Hu was a baron clan member. Oops. My point about the Rong still stands.
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My view is that these are just rumors Fu is overhearing not any indepth analysis about the tournament. In my experience people tend to talk more about the winners of something unless the losers did really really bad. Since Ji Rong did good, but not as good as Ling Qi who beat him, there are more rumors swirling around about Ling Qi.
 
Erebeal said:
Why would you expect him too? And also all of our Arts have sites on them already. There's a reason we don't bother with exploring these days.
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Because he has been in the inner sect at least a year longer then we have.

Edit: We don't have a darkness site that got destroyed.
 
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[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]
 
Neshuakadal said:
The only way both arguments were about time is that both used the word time. My whole argument is based on respect and not jumping into a heart to heart cold turkey. You can't just tell someone "Hey here is someone we sorta of know now lets talk about our problems" and expect that to go over well. There should be a process. You have to tell them that you think there are some problems. Then you have to ask them to have a conversation about it. Then you have to set up a time to have that conversation. This is what I would want from people I know so this is what I want to give Zhengui.

I see this conversation with Aliggne going one of three ways: Either we shove Zhengui with the other spirit beasts and then throw up a conversation barrier to prevent those spirit beasts from overhearing the serious things being talked about, we do need to talk about serious things or no real progress is going to be made, thus disrespecting Zhengui by keeping him out of a conversation that he deserves to be a part of. Or we include Zhengui into the conversation shielding everyone else out thus preventing him from the secondary goal of increased social tries. Or we are so oblique about the topic matter that we don't need to shield the conversation and no progress gets done anyway because of the communication barriers set in place purposely. There is also the concern I have that if we shield a conversation from the surrounding spirit beasts they will get nosy and eavesdrop in. You clearly have a vastly different vision of how the conversation will go and that's fine, but don't try and twist my argument into one about the amount of time to spend with Zhengui when it isn't. My argument is about respecting Zhengui. For real progress to be had we need a heart to heart with Zhengui and being surrounded by strangers is quite possible the worst venue I can think of for such a conversation.
------

While I am here I might as well go off on a small tangent. I am sick of people thinking that spending more time with Zhengui or getting an art that connects to him better will solve the roadblocks, hurdles, and snares the relationship has developed. I don't believe they will. Those will just bury the problems and leave them to fester as people clap each other on the back and say "Fixed!" Trying to spend more time or having an exact art to connect with Zhengui is just trying to bury the problem by becoming 'busier'. It does nothing to solve the underlying issues. I would love to spend more time or have an art that connects deeply with Zhengui. But I don't think those will solve any of the problems. We desperately need a heart to heart with Zhengui. We need a conversation like we had with Sixiang when they were thinking of leaving. That conversation was a great example of a good heart to heart. We were told there needed to be a conversation. We were told when the conversation would happen. Then we had the conversation. The only problem I had with that heart to heart is that Yrs decided to wrap art training into it. I understand why but it seems to have given this thread the false idea that we need an art to have a heart to heart. That is not true. We don't need an art to have a heart to heart.

What we need is to tell Zhengui that we think there are some problems in the relationship. Then we tell Zhengui what we think the problems are. Then we need to tell him we would like to talk about it. Then we tell him when we would like to talk about it. Then we tell him where we would like to talk to him about it. Inviting a trusted neutral third party is also a good idea as it allows an outside perspective and helps communication flow smoothly, but we have to inform Zhengui who the third party will be and why they are there. We also need to set aside hours for this conversation. Like two or four hours. This helps prepare both parties for the conversation and helps set expectations. This is by far one of the best ways to solve serious problems in a relationship. The big problem is that we voters can't really vote on starting something like this since the changes in voting structure. It is all up to Ling Qi.
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This is a bit of a misunderstanding of the positions of people advocating for an art or other mutually constructive routine activity to share with Zhengui. Nobody is saying that it would obviate the need to communicate with Zhengui. They're not even saying that communication can't happen without an art to prop up the effort. The position is mainly that since one of the causes of the deterioration and distance in their relationship is a lack of time spent collaborating on stuff together, a lack of meaningful interaction, that figuring out something that fills that role is vital to healing the rifts caused. That's not the same thing as saying it's the only important thing or that by itself it's sufficient.

There's also just the fact that the metaphysics of the setting are real and do matter. Ling Qi's journey in cultivation has been and will increasingly be one where she transmutes herself into a quite literal embodiment of her personal philosophies. Engaging with the spiritual makeup of our spirit partners is part of respecting the entirety of their persons. Like, if you look at Sixiang, the issues were very much tied up in their intrinsic spiritual nature. The magic stuff actually does matter, and it's not actually distinct from who they are. Sixiang's an extreme example, and spirit beasts are more anchored in human-like experience, but the magic stuff's never going to be completely non-relevant with any entity which has cultivation.
 
fictionfan said:
Because he has been in the inner sect at least a year longer then we have.

Edit: We don't have a darkness site that got destroyed.
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UGM has the water/lake site (and is only darkness via cold anyway)
LFWT has the wind/music site and will be getting that moon keyword back at level 3
SNR has the lake site
ENM we're finishing this turn with the wind/music site
BKSD has both the grove and the music/wind site

Sure 0.2 with no other benefits isn't a ton for BKSD, but the rest are fine and it's already at a 2.6 multi, another 0.1 isn't gonna make much of a difference.
 
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AbeoLogos said:
My current guess is going to the pavilion means getting introduced to a few named disciples, while going outside means getting introduced to a few named spirits.
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Might also help in introducing Ling Qi to those disciples she just traumatized in a context where she's not going to be traumatizing them further.

Let'm know she's not all "the inevitability of the final end" all the time, which I'd certainly expect to influence the nature of her reputation, even if it doesn't have much impact on the precise level.
 
One thing that is worth pointing out about spending time with Zhengui is that we can and do sometimes do it when performing. There was that really wonderful scene a while ago where we, Hanyi and Zhengui were on his hill. He sort of danced/swayed while the other two performed music. So we do spend time with him and he seems to really enjoy our music. Supposedly he even has a good understanding of music from spending literally his whole life listening to us. Maybe there is a seed of something we can do together there. Or hell maybe once he gets better at speech we can start selling access to Zhengui, music critic.
 
fictionfan said:
@yrsillar : Could we ask Ru Nan is he knows a good darkness site? It would really help with this month cultivation and nicely allow him to discharge any debt. He has been in the inner sect longer then us and is likely to know a few sites.
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Okay someone remind me who Ru Nan is?? At first I thought you must've spelled the name wrong bc I'm usually really good at remembering even minor characters from a while ago, lol.
 
I think that due to the setup in Forge, we've retained some bad habits while arguing. There was this zero-sum game thing going on in Forge where those we didn't pay attention to sort of... fell out of our orbit. Su Ling at Bond 1 is probably the most emblematic of that despite being arguably closer to us than Cai Rexiang is. Like, I think the Bond thing is accurate insofar that she wouldn't put in a stupendous amount of effort to help us like Li Suyin might, but we're still genuinely friends: you don't go to random people about boy troubles, not with Ling Qi's hangups. This is kind of due to Su Ling being treated more as a business partner than a friend: she was always around for training and questing, but not really for interpersonal stuff.

Anyway, all this to say that what I think the conversation is missing is - no joke - a focus on Ling Qi. Like, yes, Cai and Zhengui are important, but genuinely, if I knew for sure that Ling Qi turning down Wang would deliver a scene where she demonstrates her growth (sincere negotiator cough cough) and an ability to elegantly turn down a social engagement without engendering any resentment than it'd be well worth it, from a character development standpoint, irrespective of Zhengui. A pretty big thing before was her inability to not cause offense through her flightiness. To retain her basic flightiness but also be able to have people understand why she does what she does and then go 'oh, please go, I wouldn't dream of detaining you,' there's a satisfaction to that all on its own.

Similarly, I think that choosing Wang Chao will demonstrate a sociability that Ling Qi never genuinely attempted before and that it'll allow scenes involving the training sessions to feel less... loosely goosey, with minor characters thrown hither and thither.
 
[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]
 
FixerUpper said:
I think that due to the setup in Forge, we've retained some bad habits while arguing. There was this zero-sum game thing going on in Forge where those we didn't pay attention to sort of... fell out of our orbit. Su Ling at Bond 1 is probably the most emblematic of that despite being arguably closer to us than Cai Rexiang is. Like, I think the Bond thing is accurate insofar that she wouldn't put in a stupendous amount of effort to help us like Li Suyin might, but we're still genuinely friends: you don't go to random people about boy troubles, not with Ling Qi's hangups. This is kind of due to Su Ling being treated more as a business partner than a friend: she was always around for training and questing, but not really for interpersonal stuff.

Anyway, all this to say that what I think the conversation is missing is - no joke - a focus on Ling Qi. Like, yes, Cai and Zhengui are important, but genuinely, if I knew for sure that Ling Qi turning down Wang would deliver a scene where she demonstrates her growth (sincere negotiator cough cough) and an ability to elegantly turn down a social engagement without engendering any resentment than it'd be well worth it, from a character development standpoint, irrespective of Zhengui. A pretty big thing before was her inability to not cause offense through her flightiness. To retain her basic flightiness but also be able to have people understand why she does what she does and then go 'oh, please go, I wouldn't dream of detaining you,' there's a satisfaction to that all on its own.

Similarly, I think that choosing Wang Chao will demonstrate a sociability that Ling Qi never genuinely attempted before and that it'll allow scenes involving the training sessions to feel less... loosely goosey, with minor characters thrown hither and thither.
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Su Ling is Bond 2 just so you know. Its true that some people have fallen out of LQ's orbit, so to speak. We also grew apart from Han Jian and never really got to know Han Fang (which I think is more of shame then the former. Hang Fang best boy.)
 
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Adhoc vote count started by OneArmedYeti on Jun 11, 2020 at 11:44 AM, finished with 330 posts and 141 votes.
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I love the moratorium since it helps prevent us from jumping in head first and promotes at least some discussion, sometimes bringing up interesting points I'd never have considered.

I hate the moratorium since I keep forgetting to actually place my vote once the polls have opened. I need a better system.
 
Wiggin42 said:
I love the moratorium since it helps prevent us from jumping in head first and promotes at least some discussion, sometimes bringing up interesting points I'd never have considered.

I hate the moratorium since I keep forgetting to actually place my vote once the polls have opened. I need a better system.
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Set an alarm on your phone or computer for two hours right when you finish reading the update.
 
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