Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]


Anyway, LQ has been called scary many, many times in character. Never seemed to bother her before, so I wonder what has changed.
I don't really see it as something that needs to be addressed. She's scary because of how she fights. If there is a place where being scary is a boon, it's probably the battlefield. Besides, it's so effective I cannot see us changing her style anytime soon.
 
Oh, and I almost forgot to mention. We actually have had this dynamic of bringing one of our spirits to a noble gathering and then leaving them alone as we fulfilled our duties play out before. Only that time it was with Hanyi. Everything enjoyed themselves and Hanyi tried to set us up with Xuan Shi.
Just mentioning, not everyone enjoyed themselves. Some thought Hanyi running around was "boorish" but we don't care about those dicks anyways so whatever.
 
[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]
 
[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]
 
[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]
 
This month's arts were:

Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief
Ephemeral Nights Memory
Starless Night's Reflection
Unstoppable Glaciers March
Moonless Saboteur's Smile
Beast King's Savage Dirge
Winter Hearth Resounding
Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry

We have trained two arts: BKSD and UGM. We got one level of BKSD and two of UGM. We're due to get the first two of LFWT, two more of ENM, the first three of SNR, the first of MSS, the first of WHR, and the last of PLR. 2 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 1 = ten more art levels to gain this month.

You see why everyone was hyped about Darkness Month. A bunch of stuff comes online, and our Spiritual cultivation leaps forward from that pill which converts our 14 AP of Darkness art cultivation into 4 Spiritual Cultivation AP (what we normally spend in a month) + 1.5 effective AP extra. This is why we opened so many meridians last month.
 
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[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]
 
I mean, it does makes sense storywise. @yrsillar has clearly been building up the Job vs Family conflict and with our next advance insight building it only makes sense that it is about making it a "Your work is more important then your family" insight or not.
I agree and disagree. And sorry, I'm using your post as a jumping point for a big dumb post.

I agree that there has been a building narrative in the story concerning Job vs Family as a conflict, and there's been a number of things feeding into that, even as far as Jiao's broken Way. Where I disagree is that it makes sense storywise.

There have been a number of narrative cues that build towards a "family is a source of strength/success too" realization. There's been enough that I think that's the established narrative arc to follow. However, pretty much every time Zhengui comes up in the narrative, the vote options are formatted as "Do you want to do something with/for Zhengui OR do you want more success?" This is directly incompatible with that lesson that's been hinted at. There's no opportunity to actually explore or even get a taste of the realization, because the deck is always stacked against Zhengui.

It's not always a matter of Ling Qi's biases either, pretty often the factual circumstances just sideline Zhengui. Back in the Cold Snap arc, we tried to include him in our considerations for the first vote. For pretty much every vote after that in the event, the martial outcomes(Our Job) were objectively better when we chose to leave him behind or operate where he wasn't. When we initially set things up with Wang, the vote we faced was a greater focus on getting in with Wang through shoring up his political standing(doing Our Job better) versus a greater focus on our tactics with Zhengui(not doing Our Job better). When we were interacting with the fungus entity, letting Zhengui take the hit for us meant preserving our cultivation ability for ~Darkness month~ and our trajectory of power building to meet our terrifying Cai-mandate(Our Job). Here, again, we can focus on Wang, our job, or Zhengui and Alingge, not our job.

We have been getting a few additional scenes with Zhengui lately which is nice, but he's miserable, unapproachable, and the only answers we were able to pry out of him primarily served the long-neglected Xuan Shi narrative, not really his own. Even when we chose Zhengui in the free-form social vote underground, it didn't do much to advance things or give hints. This sends the message that the only way to make progress is within the binary job vs Zhengui votes that we keep getting, if progress is even possible at all.

But again, that framework doesn't lead to a resolution where family is seen as a source of strength or progress. It probably can't, because it forces trade-offs/comparative failure in her career responsibilities. So you're only reinforcing the bad mental habits plagueing Ling Qi, without any opportunity for counter-examples. It doesn't look like there's an organic path forwards to where we want to get to. The ultimate issue is that the players do not have choices that can constructively achieve their goals, or even clearly lead to them. Blind choices aren't really choices, and they lead to 5th dimensional chess arguments that make everyone miserable.

And the frustrating thing is Zhengui being so upset right now is probably masking more fundamental in-character issues in their relationship. It's a very obvious symptom which calls out to be addressed, but it's a distraction from some of the very long-term structural deficits in their interaction which have lingered while being difficult to address. One of the big issues is Ling Qi doesn't really do things with Zhengui. Not substantial things, and even leisure activities, like music, are things he can't really contribute to. But the big one is cultivation.

They don't really cultivate together. Sure, they practice and spar together, but that's more like supervising independent study than training. Ling Qi doesn't have the tools to provide insight to Zhengui's cultivation, and for the most part the reverse is true as well.

There are times Zhengui has benefited from deeper conceptual tutelage. There was the time Xuan Shi shared some principles and exercises from his Earth qi expertise that helped Zhengui mingle his Wood qi with the environment. Gu Tai's spirit bird companion shared insights on the function of opposing qi natures, which lead to Zhengui's self-destruct tech; Gu Tai also generally helped Zhen with projecting his Fire qi in attacks.

The only time I can think of that Ling Qi and Zhengui collaborated like anything close to that is when she taught him to stealth. Where either of them taught the other anything. That was month 5 of last year. 16-ish months ago. And he's not even good at stealth/it stalled out advancing completely. That's unacceptable in a spirit bond's narrative. We need to get our hands on something we can actually do together convincingly. An Art would be ideal, but even a freaking hobby or something would be welcome at this point.
 
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Ling Qi's whole thing is layered qi fields. Sure she uses cold, air, night, and moon qi for them but that's really beside the point, as shown by BKSD's beast field and the fact that we are learning keyword substitution.

So how can Zhengui take advantage of that same structure? He sort of does already with his ash. That seems fairly similar to a lot of our defensive fields. What about with his wood qi? Could he create an increasingly dense field of vegetation to slowly immobilize people?

We also do a lot of attrition based yin stuff. How about Meizhen and us (and maybe Cui? I think he hates us.) work together to teach him how to create wood or fire based poison fields?

He's slow, but large. How about we lean on that and encourage him to develop the ability to progressively increase his reach over the course of the battle. He doesn't have to move, he's omnipresent.

If we want to go really crazy, we could create change FSS from having Water (hiss!) to Wood before we extend it. That's probably a little drastic, though.
 
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I've attributed Zhen's continued confidence as a narrative benefit to us voting for Zhen getting that fancy new (fairly unused) technique some time ago.
 
The only time I can think of that Ling Qi and Zhengui collaborated like anything close to that is when she taught him to stealth. Where either of them taught the other anything. That was month 5 of last year. 16-ish months ago. And he's not even good at stealth/it stalled out advancing completely. That's unacceptable in a spirit bond's narrative. We need to get our hands on something we can actually do together convincingly. An Art would be ideal, but even a freaking hobby or something would be welcome at this point.
Annoyingly, a narrative opportunity that would be great for Zhengui in terms of his abilities and his dreams would be when we're building up our home...

...in two years.

rip
 
our sweet boy is struggling but we did only commit to integrating him more/better the turn before last. Am I sad that it's Work vs Family choices? Yeah. But Work for Cai is what is best longterm for our family as a whole. We will invest the time to mend and renew (ay Renew lol) later. Now is the time to Work.
 
As a possibility for engaging in a hobby with Zhengui, I've been interested in Ling Qi taking up some gardening as another expression of her artistic talent. Combine that with Zhengui's own gardening desires and I think that Ling Qi and Zhengui could do a lot of fun things with various gardens around the current home and later around the fief. It will certainly help Ling Qi make a space more personal for her and bring Zhengui into the making of a home.
 
[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]
 
I'd argue this is necessary not just for work reasons but also Zhengui getting some time without mom, he's going to be with the perfect sitter who finds him absolutely fascinating and her bond partner is very stoic so I doubt Zhengui would offend either of them and she'd watch for that behavior on the others too.
Plus him In a funky mood at home was obvious, he was in the garden mooping thinking of the failed surprise, Xuan being there was just extra salt for him. The one person he could talk to at home was Qi with Hanyi doin her own thing and Six sleeping and he couldn't talk to the Mortal's.

Really he just need's to unwind with some other spirit's and chillax sharing stories with each other drinking a beer with them having fun.
The fact that he can brainstorm with them trying to surprise Qi making something is icing on the cake.
What I'm sayin is we don't need to pick Zhengui option for him to be happy.
 
Ling Qi's whole thing is layered qi fields. Sure she uses cold, air, night, and moon qi for them but that's really beside the point, as shown by BKSD's beast field and the fact that we are learning keyword substitution.

So how can Zhengui take advantage of that same structure? He sort of does already with his ash. That seems fairly similar to a lot of our defensive fields. What about with his wood qi? Could he create an increasingly dense field of vegetation to slowly immobilize people?

We also do a lot of attrition based yin stuff. How about Meizhen and us (and maybe Cui? I think he hates us.) work together to teach him how to create wood or fire based poison fields?

He's slow, but large. How about we lean on that and encourage him to develop the ability to progressively increase his reach over the course of the battle. He doesn't have to move, he's omnipresent.

If we want to go really crazy, we could create change FSS from having Water (hiss!) to Wood before we extend it. That's probably a little drastic, though.
Paradise Rampart is the wood version. Its a hard field rather than soft
 
Ling Qi's whole thing is layered qi fields. Sure she uses cold, air, night, and moon qi for them but that's really beside the point, as shown by BKSD's beast field and the fact that we are learning keyword substitution.

So how can Zhengui take advantage of that same structure? He sort of does already with his ash. That seems fairly similar to a lot of our defensive fields. What about with his wood qi? Could he create an increasingly dense field of vegetation to slowly immobilize people?

We also do a lot of attrition based yin stuff. How about Meizhen and us (and maybe Cui? I think he hates us.) work together to teach him how to create wood or fire based poison fields?

He's slow, but large. How about we lean on that and encourage him to develop the ability to progressively increase his reach over the course of the battle. He doesn't have to move, he's omnipresent.

If we want to go really crazy, we could create change FSS from having Water (hiss!) to Wood before we extend it. That's probably a little drastic, though.
Yeah, it's not nothing. Stacking fields is neat and all.

The shame is that they're entirely separate processes. Nothing about the knowledge or skill one of them possess adds anything to the other. They can cooperate in the field, but the tools they're using aren't the product of deep, or even shallow, collaborative efforts. It's in sharp contrast to almost every spirit/cultivator pairing we're aware of, including our own other two spirits.

The fact that Ling Qi and Zhengui both have field effects is just a coincidence, as far as the narrative is concerned. They've never worked together on field effects. The only help Ling Qi is shown giving to Zhengui is cheerleading from the sidelines and acting as a target to hit. It's just drills over and over again until he figures it out on his own, because she doesn't have the tools to help any other way. Zhengui has never been shown helping with any aspect of Ling Qi's cultivation.
 
[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

Because our boy needs care and attention right now.
 
Yeah, it's not nothing. Stacking fields is neat and all.

The shame is that they're entirely separate processes. Nothing about the knowledge or skill one of them possess adds anything to the other. They can cooperate in the field, but the tools they're using aren't the product of deep, or even shallow, collaborative efforts. It's in sharp contrast to almost every spirit/cultivator pairing we're aware of, including our own other two spirits.

The fact that Ling Qi and Zhengui both have field effects is just a coincidence, as far as the narrative is concerned. They've never worked together on field effects. The only help Ling Qi is shown giving to Zhengui is cheerleading from the sidelines and acting as a target to hit. It's just drills over and over again until he figures it out on his own, because she doesn't have the tools to help any other way. Zhengui has never been shown helping with any aspect of Ling Qi's cultivation.

That certainly has been the case but now we are starting to move into art modding which means that those hard boundaries matter less. Why not work together with Zhengui to change out the Water keywords in our arts for Wood or Fire? Or take SNR, doesn't that Stillness aspect just beg to be changed to Growth?

It only take an action and, once we've done it a few times, that seems like a potential justification for understanding the commonalities between our two sets of Arts.
 
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That certainly has been the case but now we are starting to move into art modding which means that those hard boundaries matter less. Why not work together with Zhengui to change out the Water keywords in our arts for Wood or Fire?

Doesn't it only take an action?
We can only mod arts that we've mastered. We don't have many mastered arts that are useful that we aren't already replacing with other arts this turn. FVM can't really be modded now that it's integrated with our Domain weapon. FSS could be modded, but people are strongly interested in using it as the basis for our first successor art, which has obvious Hanyi narrative written all over it.

I do think the insight we took from FSS about endings and Endings and the former meaning new beginnings has strong potential to explore Zhengui's Renewal themes. That angle probably leads to a less strictly offense-oriented art though, and there's prominent voices who want to double down on damage-dealing as hard as possible with the art. Basically, there's no clear solution to the thematic disconnect between Ling Qi and Zhengui there, at the moment.

And we don't have any other arts that fit the bill either. There was a strong effort to acquire an Art appropriate for exploring Zhengui's themes last turn, but the effort ultimately failed. There are no other opportunities to go looking again in the next handful of turns, at minimum. Even if an appropriate Art fell into our lap, it would be extremely difficult to fit it into our build coherently with the meridians we currently have open. A good example is Burning Glade Restoration, which we did get last turn, does fit Zhengui's themes, but that didn't fit the hole in our build we were trying to fill, and that doesn't have free meridians to occupy.

The path forwards is mostly reliant on @yrsillar bailing us out, at this point. Player initiative failed last turn, and right now there's no room for more. Falling into a vat of moon juice and having our Heart and Lung meridians all merge into one interchangeable variant, or 5 of our spines being able to pull Heart duty or something is the scale of fiat necessary for players to actually have autonomy on this issue again.
 
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[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]
 
Insert Tally
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Jun 10, 2020 at 9:55 PM, finished with 253 posts and 133 votes.
 
We can only mod arts that we've mastered. We don't have many mastered arts that are useful that we aren't already replacing with other arts this turn. FVM can't really be modded now that it's integrated with our Domain weapon. FSS could be modded, but people are strongly interested in using it as the basis for our first successor art, which has obvious Hanyi narrative written all over it.

What about PLR? We are going to master it pretty soon and we could hopefully change Motion for Growth, especially now that we have Dream Step.
 
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