Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[fictionfan]

A bunch of domains built around the idea of "let's protect people" could presumably limit the loss of life. Su Ling likely has such a domain with her desire to help normal people and Ling Qi has one focused around friends and family (so not as relevant, but still helpful). Then you could add some area defensive arts which are presumably pretty strong at Cyan.

This won't help a mortal actually tank an attack from a Cyan but a team of defensively built Cyans mitigating the collateral damage doesn't seem bizarre. Of course domains and arts that protect things as opposed to people seem rarer and so there would still be a lot of property damage.

"Ally" and "enemy" are up to the discretion of the user, right?

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A team of Cyans. I have to wonder how common those are let alone ones with a certain sort of domain. Also putting together or calling for such a team seems like the sort of big deal that the fox's divination arts would be able to pick up.

Fox seems to be in sweet spot of being

1. Hard to detect
2. Tough to beat if detected especially without collateral damage.
3. Able to detect the level of mobilization needed to take her down long before it gets to her.

I suspect that that are few enough such teams that the fox would be able to keep track of where all known ones are generally and make sure to be a few provinces away.

 

[Neshuakadal]

I would be interested in seeing Su Lings domain eventually but I doubt it is of any strength. She is only Bronze 1 and Green 1 right now right? Like she just unlocked the ability to even build a domain.

 

[Bakkasama]

A bunch of domains built around the idea of "let's protect people" could presumably limit the loss of life. Su Ling likely has such a domain with her desire to help normal people and Ling Qi has one focused around friends and family (so not as relevant, but still helpful). Then you could add some area defensive arts which are presumably pretty strong at Cyan.

This won't help a mortal actually tank an attack from a Cyan but a team of defensively built Cyans mitigating the collateral damage doesn't seem bizarre. Of course domains and arts that protect things as opposed to people seem rarer and so there would still be a lot of property damage.

"Ally" and "enemy" are up to the discretion of the user, right?

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Hmmm... I'd bet that Su Ling's domain in particular turns out to be good at protecting the little people from collateral damage. Also, eventually you get to the point where you can start crafting realities and dragging people into dream and so forth. I'd bet that by Cyan (or not too long after) you might be able to pull the enemy into a sort of dueling arena plane and cut out the collateral that way.

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Would her Domain be centered around protecting normal people? I got the impression that she helped normal people not because a sense of justice or because she particularly wants to help the normies when she grows up, but because she remembers what it was like to be a mortal that nobody helped. As in, I don't think most immortal think that much about mortals because they simply don't interact with them. Gan Guanli is the kind of guy who would totally protect normal people but when the attack came, he didn't think about protecting the village until Su Ling pointed out it was in danger.

So I think that it is not that Su Ling is all about justice, equality and protecting the little people but that her think is that she remembers what it was like to be a mortal and didn't distance herself from it. As in, she is still that girl but with superpowers and mellowed out.

 

[storryeater]

Would her Domain be centered around protecting normal people? I got the impression that she helped normal people not because a sense of justice or because she particularly wants to help the normies when she grows up, but because she remembers what it was like to be a mortal that nobody helped. As in, I don't think most immortal think that much about mortals because they simply don't interact with them. Gan Guanli is the kind of guy who would totally protect normal people but when the attack came, he didn't think about protecting the village until Su Ling pointed out it was in danger.

So I think that it is not that Su Ling is all about justice, equality and protecting the little people but that her think is that she remembers what it was like to be a mortal and didn't distance herself from it. As in, she is still that girl but with superpowers and mellowed out.

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I do not think there really is much of a difference here? People are more of a complicated mess of feelings and rationalizations that fiction often presents them, there really isn't much of a difference between saying "I want to protect the litlle people because I know its the right thing" and "I want to protect the litle people because I feel its the right thing due to my past experience". As long as she doesn't excise it from her domain, which she won't, its gonna feature in it more and more prominently because that is how immortals work, regardless of the reasons they have and whether they stem from the id or the superego (for lack of more recognizable terms).

 

[me.me.here]

But doesn't Bao Qingling kind of contradict that? I mean I admit I'm not super dialed in on the political side of this quest, but hasn't she managed to avoid socializing with nobles for the most part?

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She has, but it's worth noting that she actually knows how to play the game - she was able to counter her suitor's privacy shroud in order to try and make a scene to get him to go away that one time. She clearly has some arts that are applicable to social interactions. What we've seen of her perspective has also had a lot of her expecting people to be trying to manipulate her, which might be her atypical perspective rather than factual reality but also implies she's built up the ability to deal with people trying to manipulate her (regardless of whether they actually are, she'll still have devoted effort into that kind of thing).

Su Ling doesn't have those skills as best I can tell, which means her trying to copy Bao Qingling's strategy for avoiding social would probably backfire on her.

 

[Bakkasama]

I do not think there really is much of a difference here? People are more of a complicated mess of feelings and rationalizations that fiction often presents them, there really isn't much of a difference between saying "I want to protect the litlle people because I know its the right thing" and "I want to protect the litle people because I feel its the right thing due to my past experience". As long as she doesn't excise it from her domain, which she won't, its gonna feature in it more and more prominently because that is how immortals work, regardless of the reasons they have and whether they stem from the id or the superego (for lack of more recognizable terms).

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Imo, it is less about her wanting to protect people (regardless of the reason) and more that she still identifies as one of them. Like how when the group you belong to is attacked by another you are inclined to take their side and how people tend to define Us and Them groups. I think it is more that when mortals suffer from the powerful she still identifies as part of the mortal group. It is less about morals and more about her still feeling she is one of them so the sense of community leads her to side with them against external threats.

 

[Asael]

As long as she doesn't excise it from her domain,

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Assuming it even part of her domain.

Su doesn't view herself the way you view her. This is important because of how domains are formed.

 

[Faceless]

In what level we use a domain weapon and fuse with an art?
Bai Said that the bao girl domain weapon is fully acimilated How is that diferent from cai,bai or ling qi at this stage ? She fused one art in her domain...
Does su ling has a domain weapon ? They are expensive

 

[yrsillar]

Cleaned up the previous sidestory a little, thanks to @Sirrocco for pointing out errors.

 

[RebelYell]

In what level we use a domain weapon and fuse with an art?
Bai Said that the bao girl domain weapon is fully acimilated How is that diferent from cai,bai or ling qi at this stage ? She fused one in her domain...
Does su ling has a domain weapon ? They are expensive

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I think she was talking about the Framing stage of cultivation AKA 5th level Green

 

[veekie]

In what level we use a domain weapon and fuse with an art?
Bai Said that the bao girl domain weapon is fully acimilated How is that diferent from cai,bai or ling qi at this stage ? She fused one art in her domain...
Does su ling has a domain weapon ? They are expensive

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Good domain weapons are expensive, but she's probably got buttloads of Sect Points.
Suyin should be able to supply a decent one I think, I'm not sure if Su Ling would appreciate us going out of our way unasked though, ours was built by Renxiang's Ducal connections.

I do not think there really is much of a difference here? People are more of a complicated mess of feelings and rationalizations that fiction often presents them, there really isn't much of a difference between saying "I want to protect the litlle people because I know its the right thing" and "I want to protect the litle people because I feel its the right thing due to my past experience". As long as she doesn't excise it from her domain, which she won't, its gonna feature in it more and more prominently because that is how immortals work, regardless of the reasons they have and whether they stem from the id or the superego (for lack of more recognizable terms).

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Naw, the Why she does things is pretty important, as a Cultivator.
Big parts of the process is to define why exactly this is a good thing to her and where she draws the line.

Because as we've seen, Domains are often very literal expressions of their concept.
If you wish to fight evil you need to define where, when and how.
Or watch the Heart Demons boil forth

 

[Alectai]

Yeah, I think Su Ling's best move for a Domain Weapon would be to commission one from a Senior Crafter.

 

[Sirrocco]

"I want to," she replied. Doing less was unacceptable. A Bao did not accept charity.

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I just noticed this line in the last bit. I find it interesting, for two reasons. First, Bao Qingling, even at this point is totally into Bai Meizhen, but she doesn't understand her own heart well enough to realize it, and keeps trying to come up with explanations that make sense inside her own head. I'm guessing that at this point, as far as she's concerned, that awkward irrational "romantic attraction" thing is something that happens to other people.

Another is the insight into the Bao, and thus into Bao Qian. I read that sentence, and it reads to me like a declaration of a point of Bao identity. Bao don't accept charity, and they don't offer charity to people they respect. It's possible that they don't offer charity at all. Everything is an exchange.

Lol su ling got in before Gan.

Try harder Gan. Jia yo.

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Just had a weird little realization. Shenhua gave Gan a mission, and completing that mission requires that he remain in teh inner sect until the yearly trials. What happens to him if he gets a battle merit promotion partway through the year? I mean, I don't expect him to, but...?

 

[storryeater]

Imo, it is less about her wanting to protect people (regardless of the reason) and more that she still identifies as one of them. Like how when the group you belong to is attacked by another you are inclined to take their side and how people tend to define Us and Them groups. I think it is more that when mortals suffer from the powerful she still identifies as part of the mortal group. It is less about morals and more about her still feeling she is one of them so the sense of community leads her to side with them against external threats.

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I really do not thing its an us vs them thing, since the "us" where the people with torches and ptchforks that tried to kill her. She never identified as a mortal strongly enough that such identification would make her go out of her way to help them. Her desire to help is not something that will change once/if she starts seeing herself as immortal.

Ling Qi and Ji Rong dropped the "I identify with the weak" almost immediatedly after seeing a few mortals and realising how far above them they were, at yellow. Su Ling still cares at Green, it is unlikely she'll stop caring and start identifying with the Nobles, that, to me, seems really OOC.

Assuming it even part of her domain.

Su doesn't view herself the way you view her. This is important because of how domains are formed.

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If its not part of the domain it eventually gets excised. Immortals ARE their domains. Unless her helping people isn't incidental as part of another goal, it either gets dropped or integrated regardless of her motivation or how she sees herself.

Naw, the Why she does things is pretty important, as a Cultivator.
Big parts of the process is to define why exactly this is a good thing to her and where she draws the line.

Because as we've seen, Domains are often very literal expressions of their concept.
If you wish to fight evil you need to define where, when and how.
Or watch the Heart Demons boil forth

Click to shrink...

I agree with that. I meant that it doesn't matter as far as "Su Ling, protector of the weak" goes, I know it matters for her due to cultivation, but however she justifies it to her domain it will probably matter only tangenially as far as actions and domain protection of mortals goes unless she goes for some really heavy philosophizing and creates a bunch of rules about when she should and shouldn't help, which isn't impossible, but still does mean her Domain would protect normal people.

 

[Asael]

Honestly, I would not be surprised if su's domain end up being inwardly focused.

Her issues with her mother, her fears of becoming a monster. She'd probably become hermit if others didn't keep prodding her out of her cave. Even her patrols wouldn't have happened if it weren't for her friends poking her

 

[angelofwhim]

Yeah, I think Su Ling's best move for a Domain Weapon would be to commission one from a Senior Crafter.

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Didn't you write about su ling meeting a senior crafter for tutoring?

 

[BeepSmile]

Honestly, I would not be surprised if su's domain end up being inwardly focused.

Her issues with her mother, her fears of becoming a monster. She'd probably become hermit if others didn't keep prodding her out of her cave. Even her patrols wouldn't have happened if it weren't for her friends poking her

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Su Ling wouldn't become a hermit. She wants to help people, and hermits aren't any good to anybody.

Imo, it is less about her wanting to protect people (regardless of the reason) and more that she still identifies as one of them. Like how when the group you belong to is attacked by another you are inclined to take their side and how people tend to define Us and Them groups. I think it is more that when mortals suffer from the powerful she still identifies as part of the mortal group. It is less about morals and more about her still feeling she is one of them so the sense of community leads her to side with them against external threats.

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This is wretched.

As such I ask for you to link supporting bits of the text that lead to this interpretation of Su Ling; one where she cares about those she views as peers in ability above caring about those victimised and abused by beings of power - I refer to her looking to the wellbeing of the child the shaman was going to kill as my evidence for this.

 

[Sirrocco]

Naw, the Why she does things is pretty important, as a Cultivator.
Big parts of the process is to define why exactly this is a good thing to her and where she draws the line.

Because as we've seen, Domains are often very literal expressions of their concept.
If you wish to fight evil you need to define where, when and how.
Or watch the Heart Demons boil forth

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That imagery... now I'm imagining someone for whom masses of internal contradiction is their Way, who deliberately cultivates Heart Demons to unleash in physical form on their foes.

It... probably wouldn't be healthy.

I agree with that. I meant that it doesn't matter as far as "Su Ling, protector of the weak" goes, I know it matters for her due to cultivation, but however she justifies it to her domain it will probably matter only tangenially as far as actions and domain protection of mortals goes unless she goes for some really heavy philosophizing and creates a bunch of rules about when she should and shouldn't help, which isn't impossible, but still does mean her Domain would protect normal people.

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It *is* going to matter, though, because details like how it is that it's integral to her can do a lot to determine the actual effects of her domain. Like, I think Su Ling is pretty set on being a supporter of the common people, and that's not going to change. By extension, her Domain is going to be a much nicer place for random mortals than that of most cultivators would be, and said mortals will almost certainly get some sort of buffs while within it. At the same time the explanations she has inside her head for why she does this thing, and the way that it informs her identity, and the insights that have come out of it are going to have a huge impact on exactly which buffs those mortals get to enjoy while in her company. The kinds of buff that can let mortals not suddenly turn into collateral damage when cyan-tier cultivators start lighting off nearby are pretty specific, and little persnickety details like how she explains it to herself are exactly the sort of thing that can determine whether or not her domain happens to have them.

 

[storryeater]

It *is* going to matter, though, because details like how it is that it's integral to her can do a lot to determine the actual effects of her domain. Like, I think Su Ling is pretty set on being a supporter of the common people, and that's not going to change. By extension, her Domain is going to be a much nicer place for random mortals than that of most cultivators would be, and said mortals will almost certainly get some sort of buffs while within it. At the same time the explanations she has inside her head for why she does this thing, and the way that it informs her identity, and the insights that have come out of it are going to have a huge impact on exactly which buffs those mortals get to enjoy while in her company. The kinds of buff that can let mortals not suddenly turn into collateral damage when cyan-tier cultivators start lighting off nearby are pretty specific, and little persnickety details like how she explains it to herself are exactly the sort of thing that can determine whether or not her domain happens to have them.

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Fair, but whether she does it because it is the right thing to do or because she once was like them is not the relevant question, I feel like. Neither has inherently more protective ability. The question that would give it is whether mortals should be harmed by the whims of the powerful, and I am pretty sure she has allready answered that.

That said, her Domain may not be strong enough to contain a Cyan fight as a Cyan regardless of insights, cuz Domain effects tend to be weaker than arts.

 

[Asael]

Su Ling wouldn't become a hermit. She wants to help people, and hermits aren't any good to anybody.

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You are projecting on her.
Su would be happy being left alone. Demonstrably so. Her heart is not made of stone though.

As an example. We met her recently during a patrol. She admits that she was doing the patrol because she was prodded into doing so by friends.
Even with prodding, she might have refused if she wasn't compassionate.

The point I am trying to make is, she's not a crusader, or an activist. It's pretty clear that hunting her mother is as much about conquering her own demons as anything.

But she's also too compassionate to ignore suffering happening right in front of her.

The other su was the kamen rider wannabe.

 

[Arkeus]

Just had a weird little realization. Shenhua gave Gan a mission, and completing that mission requires that he remain in teh inner sect until the yearly trials. What happens to him if he gets a battle merit promotion partway through the year? I mean, I don't expect him to, but...?

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You mean outer sect, but here is what Shenhua said:

"Of course it will be," the woman replied languidly. "In regards to your boy, the one who failed," The Duchess continued. "I expect him to maintain the shape of your Outer Sect order in the following year. He will enter the Inner Sect at a rank no less than your current one in the next tournament. If he cannot even manage that, I will assign you a superior vassal."

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When Su Ling got in through merits, she got to 800 (10 rank above the rank CRX herself got in to). While the strict reading of what Shenhua said is 'He'll come in the next tournament', I think Shenhua hasn't gotten where she is by not accepting people going beyond expectation, so if he comes to 800 before the tournament, it should be good imo.

 

[BeepSmile]

If you mean that time in the town, that was to be seen so as raise morale, not to actively guard/protect - she had to be prodded into 'putting on a show' to make people feel better, that is not the same thing as solving dangerous problems/removing threats.

She wants to be left alone by useless busybody sneering nobles, perhaps. I found the conversation between Su Ling and Ling Qi about the farmer boy they rescued to be foundational in how I see her - ah. No. There were two conversations they had relating to him. The first here:

Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest) Original - Fantasy

The in progress royal road rewrite of this quest can be found here The biting chill of autumn...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

And the second, which more strongly supports my point; I can not recall when it happened, apologies.

 

[Bakkasama]

This is wretched.

As such I ask for you to link supporting bits of the text that lead to this interpretation of Su Ling; one where she cares about those she views as peers in ability above caring about those victimised and abused by beings of power - I refer to her looking to the wellbeing of the child the shaman was going to kill as my evidence for this.

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I am not sure if it is on me explaining wrong or on you not reading carefully but that is abot the opposite of what I meant. It is not that she cares about her peers above those below her in ability, it is that she remembers how it was when she was the one in a bad situation and defined a lot of her life around getting back at her mother for raping and killing her father. So she identifies still with the weak and since mortal people are as weak as you get they are closer to her mind. She is a cultivator but doesn't identifies that much with cultivator culture, so when she thinks of community she thinks of mortals. That is why I said she is more ready to help the mortals, not because of a sense of justice but because she identifies with them.

 

[Aranfan]

Su Ling always came off to me of having a well developed sense of justice. Not as someone who made justice sounding noises because it was beneficial to her ingroup.

 

[BeepSmile]

I assure you, a person can identify with the group "people without power" and not care one whit for the wellbeng or safety of those people.

It could well be that Su Ling is aware of how bad it can be because of her experiences, makes perfect sense to me, but that is not enough to motivate a person to try and help people.

My read of your post is that Su Ling is going to transfer her attention from "helping protect people without power" to "other things", due to her identifying with peer group and an us-vs-them mentality.

I am saying that the reasons that she has to prevent the depredations of greater powers upon mortals now, are not going to change because of some tribalism.