Really? I would expect such things to be a waste because high mid-level combat often revolves around armies which can have doctrine to counter such offense, but if a cultivator focused on a short burst of overwhelming offense made it to white I'd expect them to be very effective against other whites that lack a focus on defense and enduring.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Even at our stage we will soon be able to ignore most attacks for C qi and Domains tend toward the defensive overall. This makes fights continue for longer, increasing the value of buffs and other sustained effects compared to burst.
I was overselling the effect by saying it is a waste but it is indeed getting weaker.
- Location
- Right Behind You.
We're all ignoring that we recently got a look at him fighting the brute. It wasn't something we could really focus on but we did see the aftermath. Given what we know about the Shishigui, (massive buffers, resistance to Qui drain and use of burst damage attacks and poison), I think we can make a few educated guesses about his build.
"There was a crash, and Zhengui cried out as a blazing meteor struck his side, only to fade and reveal Ji Rong, rising from his knees, bloodied and wounded, cradling his spirit beast in his arms. His foe stood from the crumbling rubble of the kennel, badly burnt but unbowed."
He was able to fight near equally with something of equal stage while it was being mass buffed.
He wasn't able to protect his thunder snake while doing it.
-He was holding the Snek when he was knocked back. Sounds like he caught it, we should target the snake for bonus emotional damage.
He didn't manage to spot the Dancer who attacked us (Neither did we but Six did).
He was angry when we retreated outright, so he wasn't as cornered as he looked (Or was arrogant enough not to see it).
Mostly guesses as I said but I'm thinking he's probably got some way to temporarily give himself a massive buff. I can't see how he could go toe-to-toe with that buffed brute otherwise. That he protected the Snek suggests the buff might be reliant on it being around which would fit with it calling them "blood brothers" or whatever earlier on. That or he's overly attached to protecting it and we can exploit that too. Not being able to spot the dancer says good things about our chances to avoid him but I can't imagine he'd challenge us without some way to find us.
I think most importantly we should remember that he's blunt but cunning, a mob boss really. I doubt he'll use dispels when AoE's and destroying the ground will do the job. Same with protecting himself. It's probably quite easy for people to find out our strongest attack is touch based, so he'll plan for that. If there were bookies on this upcoming fight I'd put money on us going for the finish and finding he has reactive thunder armour or similar. I think we could definitely get too far into it but if we can't get any info on him then basing a strategy off of his personality might be our best bet.
Again, mostly guesswork but its about all we've got so far as I don't think he's fought anyone publicly since coming back with Lilling.
"There was a crash, and Zhengui cried out as a blazing meteor struck his side, only to fade and reveal Ji Rong, rising from his knees, bloodied and wounded, cradling his spirit beast in his arms. His foe stood from the crumbling rubble of the kennel, badly burnt but unbowed."
He was able to fight near equally with something of equal stage while it was being mass buffed.
He wasn't able to protect his thunder snake while doing it.
-He was holding the Snek when he was knocked back. Sounds like he caught it, we should target the snake for bonus emotional damage.
He didn't manage to spot the Dancer who attacked us (Neither did we but Six did).
He was angry when we retreated outright, so he wasn't as cornered as he looked (Or was arrogant enough not to see it).
Mostly guesses as I said but I'm thinking he's probably got some way to temporarily give himself a massive buff. I can't see how he could go toe-to-toe with that buffed brute otherwise. That he protected the Snek suggests the buff might be reliant on it being around which would fit with it calling them "blood brothers" or whatever earlier on. That or he's overly attached to protecting it and we can exploit that too. Not being able to spot the dancer says good things about our chances to avoid him but I can't imagine he'd challenge us without some way to find us.
I think most importantly we should remember that he's blunt but cunning, a mob boss really. I doubt he'll use dispels when AoE's and destroying the ground will do the job. Same with protecting himself. It's probably quite easy for people to find out our strongest attack is touch based, so he'll plan for that. If there were bookies on this upcoming fight I'd put money on us going for the finish and finding he has reactive thunder armour or similar. I think we could definitely get too far into it but if we can't get any info on him then basing a strategy off of his personality might be our best bet.
Again, mostly guesswork but its about all we've got so far as I don't think he's fought anyone publicly since coming back with Lilling.
NoxOfUmbra
Shadow of the night
- Location
- Colombia, South América
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I don't think targeting his spirit would do something more than enrage him and create bad blood between us, we would not like that someone target Hanyi, for example.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
One note about the whole Ji Rong duel thing as well is that we don't really have the faintest clue on what Relong can do besides probably something heaven related because he's a heaven aspected dragon. Worth considering that he's adding an entire other dimension to the fight which just didn't exist in the previous thread and we know basically nothing. I'm also not particularly a fan of focusing him down either and exploiting that bond.
- Location
- CA
My guess is that Ji Rong's core style hasn't changed much. From what we've seen of him, he still prefers to fight single enemies, but his domain weapon has switched from a burst heal, which he couldn't use that effectively, to a ramp-up suite. There might also be aspects of charging upon receiving damage there as well.
It's worth mentioning that a decent portion of his damage is wrapped up in lightning, which was part of why he didn't completely savage the Houndmaster. If I had to guess, Ji Rong has established a sort of 'stunlock' build, using his weapon and arts to ramp up heavy debuffs to defense and movement and exploiting that with a large speed advantage, which he'll probably still maintain over Ling Qi within Short range. Any significant improvements he's made to it are most likely to increase his durability, to benefit from the full ramp-up of his domain weapon, and to increase his top-end burst potential.
While Ling Qi isn't as reliant on ramping up as she used to be, his build likely remains effective at exploiting her limited burst potential.
It's worth mentioning that a decent portion of his damage is wrapped up in lightning, which was part of why he didn't completely savage the Houndmaster. If I had to guess, Ji Rong has established a sort of 'stunlock' build, using his weapon and arts to ramp up heavy debuffs to defense and movement and exploiting that with a large speed advantage, which he'll probably still maintain over Ling Qi within Short range. Any significant improvements he's made to it are most likely to increase his durability, to benefit from the full ramp-up of his domain weapon, and to increase his top-end burst potential.
While Ling Qi isn't as reliant on ramping up as she used to be, his build likely remains effective at exploiting her limited burst potential.
It also seems like a great way to turn the spar with Ji Rong into a net negative. The reason focusing down Relong can work is that Ji Rong will take it personally, not just as "something that happens in spars."
Given the entire reason we're even considering publicly giving away information on our new arts is for opening up a backdoor for diplomacy, this is a terrible idea.
Relong is new to the third realm, if he doesn't have a C-rank mobility technique we can presumably throw him out of the Mist with forced movement (to the edge and then contract it) and then he's forced to attack from outside. The additional defenses this gives, when combined with our superior cultivation, will probably do a lot to mitigate his impact on the fight.
Even if he can enter it, the combination of our damage and qi drain fields along with the constant movement techniques will wear away his health/qi and take him out of the fight. This is still a bit of an insult but it mostly just implies that we don't take the dragon seriously which is kind of fair. That allows us and all our spirits to team up on Ji Rong:
Ling Qi wears him down with death fields
Zhengui's abilities make attacking anyone else a bad idea as well as provides sustain
Hanyi occasionally applies debuffs or occasionally disables him for a moment
Sixiang does their dispels and debuffs (their Whirlwind Revel seems terrifying for a physical combatant, for instance)
Of course this assumes that Ji Rong wants to enter melee with us. If he doesn't then we might need to use Hanyi's and our forced movement to get him to approach. I'm not sure how viable that is if Ji Rong is faster than us.
Thoughts?
Even if he can enter it, the combination of our damage and qi drain fields along with the constant movement techniques will wear away his health/qi and take him out of the fight. This is still a bit of an insult but it mostly just implies that we don't take the dragon seriously which is kind of fair. That allows us and all our spirits to team up on Ji Rong:
Ling Qi wears him down with death fields
Zhengui's abilities make attacking anyone else a bad idea as well as provides sustain
Hanyi occasionally applies debuffs or occasionally disables him for a moment
Sixiang does their dispels and debuffs (their Whirlwind Revel seems terrifying for a physical combatant, for instance)
Of course this assumes that Ji Rong wants to enter melee with us. If he doesn't then we might need to use Hanyi's and our forced movement to get him to approach. I'm not sure how viable that is if Ji Rong is faster than us.
Thoughts?
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
The biggest difference between now and last fight is that Zhengui is now a reliable tank. He should be able to buy us enough time for us to ramp up.
dpara
slightly confused ascendant
Ji Rong's was probably gearing up for jungle survivability, so I think his new stuff will focus on sustain, poison resist and "general whittle down defenses" (maybe perception/stealth).
Probably a tech that allows him to be able to stay in melee range, though he may be able to add reach to his fisticuffs.
Probably a tech that allows him to be able to stay in melee range, though he may be able to add reach to his fisticuffs.
He claimed to have stuff for shredding dreams.
I can think of three possibilities for this. Either he's geared to target six (Who we lean on for a number of things.), he has some kind of counter for intangibility, or he picked up some dispels.
Other than that, he is very much an in-your-face kind of guy. He'll try to stay in melee.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We were very vulnerable to dispells last time we fought and none of our challenges since have been against people that used dispells. He likely thinks we are still vulnerable.
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That would be a best case for us.
A worst case would be he has something that can knock six out. If he's built similarly to last time, he lands debuffs with his hits, and they will count for more if six is down.
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Based on his character, I think he would be most interested in countering intangibility, since that makes it possible to punch more of his problems.
If he's picked up dispels, well, we're in a dispel/resit arms race with CRX, so I don't expect his dispels to measure up yet. As for targeting an unmanifested spirit, has anyone who didn't have at least a realm on us ever demonstrated anything like that?
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Yes. Because people trying to dispel our shit worked out so well in the tournament
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
That one guy you were thinking of could have taken us out with that dispel one-off if he hadn't sucked.Yes. Because people trying to dispel our shit worked out so well in the tournament
I want to agree but.... Six is often a deciding factor for us. Their participation in our last fight with Ji Rong was significant.
I suppose we'll see.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Most of our attacks are spiritual. Are we being crippled by our D rank intelligence stat?
Well Six has defenses so I assume that they can in fact be targeted by the right sort of arts. However their defenses are alright and I assume that Ling Qi's defenses stack a bit with them.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Not particularly, we use other stats like Presence for Spiritual attacks.
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
I think the sensible thing to expect from that statement is that his offense isn't doing just physical damage anymore but spiritual too, which is both very sensible build-wise and won't help that much against us since our spiritual defense is basically as good as our physical one (minus an advanced fade skill for narrative weight).
Another fairly sensible thing to expect from his association with Liling is a way to fight at 100% right up until he literally can't fight anymore, and maybe some way to ignore or contest debuffs (e.g SES' spiritual armor tech also came with debuff effectiveness reduction). Though I'm not sure there's a reasonable way to avoid the qi drains other than not getting hit or having a domain core effect protecting from that.
While these speculated abilities would make grinding him down less effective, we're not as reliant on debuffs as we used to be either, and within our fields with Echoes up we're actually pretty decent at just being a facepuncher, and we can probably keep up the pressure right up until he runs out of steam.
Edit: for the record I'd actually welcome it if Ji Rong can put up a better fight than expected or even win/look like he has a shot at winning. We have a lot of data and ability to speculate about LQ's build but we just don't get that many fights on screen, which limits our ability to speculate about match-ups to broad generalities. The fight will hopefully be a nice big data point about where we actually stand vs melee types.
Another fairly sensible thing to expect from his association with Liling is a way to fight at 100% right up until he literally can't fight anymore, and maybe some way to ignore or contest debuffs (e.g SES' spiritual armor tech also came with debuff effectiveness reduction). Though I'm not sure there's a reasonable way to avoid the qi drains other than not getting hit or having a domain core effect protecting from that.
While these speculated abilities would make grinding him down less effective, we're not as reliant on debuffs as we used to be either, and within our fields with Echoes up we're actually pretty decent at just being a facepuncher, and we can probably keep up the pressure right up until he runs out of steam.
Edit: for the record I'd actually welcome it if Ji Rong can put up a better fight than expected or even win/look like he has a shot at winning. We have a lot of data and ability to speculate about LQ's build but we just don't get that many fights on screen, which limits our ability to speculate about match-ups to broad generalities. The fight will hopefully be a nice big data point about where we actually stand vs melee types.
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- Location
- Austria
Expecting to win against someone who is obvious driven and skilled is kinda hubris?
Yes we are more than capable to win, but if we believe that we will win, just because we won once before and that we are so good and all that, isn´t that the trope every other entitled noble son falls into?
Sorry for this abomination of a sentence.
Yes we are more than capable to win, but if we believe that we will win, just because we won once before and that we are so good and all that, isn´t that the trope every other entitled noble son falls into?
Sorry for this abomination of a sentence.
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- Location
- Greece
I think we shouldn't expect to win and we shouldn't expect to lose. We should just take this seriously.
Not really that fond of this duel personally tbh. There just is not anything in it for LQ to gain and if she loses (which got a higher chance pf happening then people are assuming) then there is just more negatives piled onto a already bad social situation.
The fact is, we already beat JR before. LQ wont win prestige or points with anyone for winning against him again, especially as he is a lower rank in the sect rankings. There is also a war going on so conecentrating on a pride duel instead of the war effort looks bad in itself. Calls back to the Hui where people where busy fighting among themselves instead of concentrating on Ogodei. So if we lose then we only give people more ammunition to point out that LQ is a bad retainer for CRX to have. We are only just starting to work on the social angle and getting another hit to that is just bad at this point in time.
So from what I am seeing people want to go into a duel with a pretty high chance of losing, where we wont gain anything and might lose alot. For what? Ji Rong´s pride? I know he is weirdly popular but why potentially hurt LQ image and work just to indulge him?
The fact is, we already beat JR before. LQ wont win prestige or points with anyone for winning against him again, especially as he is a lower rank in the sect rankings. There is also a war going on so conecentrating on a pride duel instead of the war effort looks bad in itself. Calls back to the Hui where people where busy fighting among themselves instead of concentrating on Ogodei. So if we lose then we only give people more ammunition to point out that LQ is a bad retainer for CRX to have. We are only just starting to work on the social angle and getting another hit to that is just bad at this point in time.
So from what I am seeing people want to go into a duel with a pretty high chance of losing, where we wont gain anything and might lose alot. For what? Ji Rong´s pride? I know he is weirdly popular but why potentially hurt LQ image and work just to indulge him?
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