Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
TRF fits extremely well with our domain's effect of "protecting your friends", tho.

However, if FVM could make the Singing Blade suck less, that'd be good. "An annoying wasp" isn't what you want for something that becomes ever more crucial.

@yrsillar What happens when you change weapons? Is the weapon just a convenient crutch to do the "surgery" through?
 
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While I DO want to do this integration, I thnik Humbaba's complaint holds some water. What if we, as players don't actually want to go down this route? Perhaps adding a "I decided not to do it, at least not yet" option could be valid. I doubt it'd win, though, but it'd let people who DON'T want to integrate an art be able to express that with their votes.

Though I guess Yris has already a plan on how things will go and NOT integrating would throw a wrench of that plan, huh.
 
Umm...


Ok but trial and error sounds a lot better than spiritual self mutilation. Like you'd have to give a lot of detail about the time taken and methods of trial and error needed to convince me this way is actually better. Especially since we have plenty of evidence that large numbers of said ancestors were still demonstrably capable of getting past this level.

This is just really sudden and the acceptance of "spiritually self mutilate yourself" by Ling Qi feels way, way to offhanded. Especially since she literally didn't know anything about it.

Cai Renxiang "Oh I just permanently cut off a bit of my personality and shoved it in a silk ribbon"
Ling Qi "Cool, I had no idea this was coming but I too am happy to shove important parts of my physical and spiritual makeup into my weapon with no buildup".
Pretty sure the trial and error also involved spiritual self-alteration. Everything we've seen about high-level cultivation implies that it is about discarding elements of humanity in order to grow into something conceptual. Humans become mighty spirits as the apex of cultivation; you can't go on that journey without cutting some parts off and leaving them behind.

Heck, the very next realm, Cyan, involves giving up our organs and converting them to pearls. And that's not even the halfway mark!
While I DO want to do this integration, I thnik Humbaba's complaint holds some water. What if we, as players don't actually want to go down this route? Perhaps adding a "I decided not to do it, at least not yet" option could be valid. I doubt it'd win, though, but it'd let people who DON'T want to integrate an art be able to express that with their votes.

Though I guess Yris has already a plan on how things will go and NOT integrating would throw a wrench of that plan, huh.
"Not doing it" means "not cultivating." We literally cannot reach the next stage of cultivation without integrating an art into our domain.
 
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While I DO want to do this integration, I thnik Humbaba's complaint holds some water. What if we, as players don't actually want to go down this route? Perhaps adding a "I decided not to do it, at least not yet" option could be valid. I doubt it'd win, though, but it'd let people who DON'T want to integrate an art be able to express that with their votes.

Though I guess Yris has already a plan on how things will go and NOT integrating would throw a wrench of that plan, huh.
If we had not said yes to Cai that might be an option. We could take time and search though our options, but we are really on a growth time church.

Edit
If we are looking narrative a good question is what part of Qi Ling's character do we feel that she would do better without?
 
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So I'm kind of confused by the update here. It speaks of the art integration as both sacrifice and something that will stay with us always. It takes an example of Renxiang's obsession with purity and order from this very morning, and then speaks as if she gave it up? Or didn't give it up? It's unclear.

Does integrating the art emphasise its ideals in LQ's character? Or does it deemphasise them? @yrsillar, would you be able to clarify this a bit?
 
You missed the part about it being "transfer into a new housing," and not mutilation.

It's not excising, cutting, or removing completely it's about having parts of your SELF no longer being contained within your fleshy body and now being within your domain-proper as part of the process of learning. It's still a part of you but no longer directly inside of you hence the art continuing to grow with you and advance. I imagine the "trial and error" part in learning how to begin spreading yourself into your domain was doing so without actually cutting parts of your soul completely off or losing anything in the process.
I wrote the post before the clarification that this would actually continue growing with us was edited into the post after Discord questions. Without that clarification what I had to go on was Renxiang saying it would "remain with us" whilst also talking about the loss of what she'd put in there and the effects on her personality. Complete with Ling Qi worrying about what Renxiang had given up.

Without the clarification it looked a lot more potentially disturbing. Even now it feels narratively tacked on. "Oh the next step involves performing open heart spiritual surgery on yourself". "'kay"

I mean you won't be able to cultivate higher without integration. I feel like itd be pretty out of character for ling qi to refuse the path of growth at this point.
You're literally contradicting what you said in the update, where our ancestors were able to ascend in a different manner. Using trial and error to achieve the same skill level without this process.

Besides which, I think the problem is the abruptness. It's very "questy" for lack of a better term. If I was just reading this as a story, and mostly these days I am, it's jarring. If Ling Qi had read those books and come to her conclusion of "this is for the best" it would be fine, but as it is her reaction to being blindsided by the information that the next orthodox step is major surgery on herself with "Ok, great!" instantly when told about it, despite expressing doubts about the fact that Renxiang did weird things to her own personality make up.

It doesn't fit narratively.
 
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If we are looking narrative a good question is what part of Qi Ling's character do we feel that she would do better without?

I think you're mistaken, this vote isn't about what Ling Qi will cut from herself but what Ling Qi will keep with herself, what she will always be, always reminded of. It's about integrating an art in our domain.
 
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"It is not," Cai Renxiang replied. She did not open her eyes. "But matters are being decided above our heads for the moment. We must simply prepare to snatch opportunity as it passes by. To seek it out at this moment will reflect poorly upon us. I share a degree of your discontent however. We will need be somewhat aggressive in volunteering for duty. I think. I have signed up for front line operations in the Wall."

"...Will they really let you do that?" Ling Qi asked, giving her a dubious look. Testing aside, she was still the heir of the Cai.
Now I wonder, what happens to us if Renxiang dies in the war?
 
FSS feels to me like it's more representative to Ling Qi's ideas of duty and transience. Both the cost of creation and the knowledge that nothing lasts forever. But we haven't really explored that enough for me to vote for it now. It's still Zequin's Art and while it's good to take from those you love, the center of your being should be you yourself.

FVM on the other hand represents Ling Qi's entire life, from the struggles of her childhood to the resolve for her future. Her fears and her hopes are all encompassed by this art. I imagine Ling Qi as a Lady of Mist, an impenetrable fog that protects her from a world filled with shadows and monsters.
 
You're literally contradicting what you said in the update, where our ancestors were able to ascend in a different manner. Using trial and error to achieve the same skill level without this process.
How many years do you have for trial and error?
Because while we might technicly be able to keep going without this method, it would be slow, and we don't have time for slow.
 
You're literally contradicting what you said in the update, where our ancestors were able to ascend in a different manner.
Yes, it *can* be done but it's not what they teach at the Sect. LQ doesn't know those methods. Moreover, our ancestors had a horrific mortality rate. The Imperial system in large part gains its power from the fact that it's perhaps the safest and most reliable path of cultivation - even if not always the fastest.
 
I will be voting for FVM because it is neither offensive nor defensive, and a knife is a practical tool beyond simple offense. A new understanding of our domain weapon as an extension of self would allow us to:
chop vegetables
cut ropes and cords and wires both Qi and mundane
slice or peel fruits in a show-offy way
pry things open
scrape gunk off of Zhengui's shell
dig
massage our own back (with the hilt!)
give sparring practice to a red (probably? shouldn't be hard)
whittle
carve
heat up and cauterize wounds
make bandages
fashion alteration

I mean. When you're a practical person you generally have a solid multi-purpose knife on ya. Swiss army is cool and all, but just a solid work-knife is good for lots of little things.

Our knife should be reconsidered in the same context. Not a wasp or a peck, but a truly multi-purpose piece of ourselves. FVM is a beautiful integration piece, because FVM is also a multi-purpose art. When we need something to stay put, we sing FVM. When we need something killed, we sing FVM. When we need to protect and obscure ourselves and our allies? We sing FVM. When we want to confuse and befuddle our foes? We sing FVM.
Integrated with our dagger, it will help us understand how to better integrate this external piece of ourselves into our lives. A singing blade. Used for attack sure, but so much nuance and creative application can come from a knife wielded well. Just as FVM has so much application, from a lonely traveler wandering through a forgotten vale
 
Now I wonder, what happens to us if Renxiang dies in the war?

We're still a sworn vassal to the Cai. But our position goes from rising star to just some random baron.

Basically, things get worse for us. If you were hoping we'd be cut loose, well, that's almost certainly never going to happen unless we fuck up so bad as to be politically radioactive, while somehow also not making ourselves a target for prompt disposal.

How many years do you have for trial and error?
Because while we might technicly be able to keep going without this method, it would be slow, and we don't have time for slow.

Keep in mind, our ancestors made this method after spending centuries doing it by trial and error. This is probably just the best method we'll ever find.
 
So I'm kind of confused by the update here. It speaks of the art integration as both sacrifice and something that will stay with us always. It takes an example of Renxiang's obsession with purity and order from this very morning, and then speaks as if she gave it up? Or didn't give it up? It's unclear.

Does integrating the art emphasise its ideals in LQ's character? Or does it deemphasise them? @yrsillar, would you be able to clarify this a bit?

I think what Renxiang refered to was that when she gave her desire for Purity to her Domain she made those ideas so intergral to her being that she can't not be them. She had to meditate on where Purity should hinder her and what purpose it was for so that she didn't just pursue Purity itself. It's how Cai Shenhua made herself always be true to herself, and now she literally can't act against her own ideals.
 
[] Her oldest active art, which had seen her through so many trials Forgotten Vale Melody

I like all arts' aesthetic, but I think that a successor for FVM is the hardest to find. And the art we put into our blade won't ever need a successor. And our blade is called Singin Mist blade. Yeah, I think I'm set.
 
I wrote the post before the clarification that this would actually continue growing with us was edited into the post after Discord questions. Without that clarification what I had to go on was Renxiang saying it would "remain with us" whilst also talking about the loss of what she'd put in there and the effects on her personality. Complete with Ling Qi worrying about what Renxiang had given up.

Without the clarification it looked a lot more potentially disturbing. Even now it feels narratively tacked on. "Oh the next step involves performing open heart spiritual surgery on yourself". "'kay"


You're literally contradicting what you said in the update, where our ancestors were able to ascend in a different manner.

Besides which, I think the problem is the abruptness. It's very "questy" for lack of a better term. If I was just reading this as a story, and mostly these days I am, it's jarring. If Ling Qi had read those books and come to her conclusion of "this is for the best" it would be fine, but as it is her reaction to being blindsided by the information that the next orthodox step is major surgery on herself with "Ok, great!" instantly when told about it, despite expressing doubts about the fact that Renxiang did weird things to her own personality make up.

It doesn't fit narratively.
You've not been paying attention to what cultivation is then

But regardless I think you misunderstand what's happening here
The Domain Weapon is training wheels for the understanding that a cultivator is more than their physical form, they are their Domain
It starts by learning to manipulate the weapon as an extension of themselves through their Domain, and now it evolves to putting a piece of themselves into the weapon, separate from their body and yet still connected to them and growing
They're learning to grow past limitations
That's the whole point of cultivation, it has always been happening, we and LQ just learned the specific details of the next step is all

And previously their Ancestors did the same thing, just less cleanly and with more trial and error
I mean LQ could technically go ahead and ignore the safe and established path where all the kinks are worked out and try preforming back alley surgery on her own soul because she for some reason felt the method used by literally everyone in the Empire to progress past her current point wouldn't be safe enough
... But why? Why would she do that?
Yrs didn't really need to give an option that read "stop cultivating" or "try doing absurdly dangerous and inefficient domain experimentation rather than just progressing"
 
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Basically, from what I understand, in order to progress further past this point in cultivation one needs to take part of their self, and put it outside of their body, transcending the human limit of "You, as a person, must be inside your meat body." The ancestors did it via lots of experimentation about pushing parts of themselves out of their body, which is obviously very dangerous if you screw it up. The "Trail and Error" in question is not a superior process, but rather a long and painful procedure that could result in losing part of your personality if you screw it up.

The Imperial Method has developed a replacement, namely, transplanting part of your self into your domain weapon. This is safer and takes way less time.
 
It is important to remember that Ling Qi is not human.
Not anymore, and has not been for a long time.
She is more, and in some ways less, and further she moves on the path of cultivation more and less she becomes.
I don't think the option of "just stop" is on the table, and it never has been since we picked the insight of ever moving and staying still being stagnation (and even if we had not, picking to stop cultivating would be effectively stopping the quest).
 
So I'm kind of confused by the update here. It speaks of the art integration as both sacrifice and something that will stay with us always. It takes an example of Renxiang's obsession with purity and order from this very morning, and then speaks as if she gave it up? Or didn't give it up? It's unclear.

Does integrating the art emphasise its ideals in LQ's character? Or does it deemphasise them? @yrsillar, would you be able to clarify this a bit?
I'm pretty sure CRX gave up the ability to not be gung ho about purity. It's like insight +++
Dammit, I can't help but feel that a defensive weapon would work better for FVM, since the whole point would be for it to maintain our misty fortress of solitude for as long as possible.
I think that we'll have the choice on how to integrate it (different ways of doing it), and that it being a offensive or defensive domain weapon will 'adapt' as needed depending on what we choose. If it couldn't adapt, TRF wouldn't even be a choice, I think.
 
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