Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[x] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I am pretty certain we are getting both our social arts in this arc, in trippy dream sequences with Sixiang. They're Moon and/or Music arts, after all.
- Location
- United States
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
Im here for the lower DC. I want to keep our friend with us.
Im here for the lower DC. I want to keep our friend with us.
Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
This has persuaded me.
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
Sirrocco
Pedantic
[x] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)
...because it's not a step back. Spirits can only grow by becoming other than what they are. Solving the "I have empathy now and it sucks" problem by trying to become more like what you were? Doesn't feel quite right for me.
...because it's not a step back. Spirits can only grow by becoming other than what they are. Solving the "I have empathy now and it sucks" problem by trying to become more like what you were? Doesn't feel quite right for me.
- Location
- Finland
And if you change too much, you stop being you, or die.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Sadly Woodwind S is being locked behind a skill evolution, so when we get it is probably left to the whim of the event gods.
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Inserted tally
DimensionalGuy
Lazy Bastard
- Location
- Sweden
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)
Not sure what to do for this one so I'm doubling down on attempts to focus on the problem. Arguably the other addresses it too but in a less direct manner. I think targeting the changes that led to the problem, rather than the problem itself, skirts too close to depicting the experiences Sixiang gained from their time with LQ as a negative. Positive experiences can lead to unhealthy mindsets and lessons but it's still enough for me to lean towards Melodies over Rapport.
Not sure what to do for this one so I'm doubling down on attempts to focus on the problem. Arguably the other addresses it too but in a less direct manner. I think targeting the changes that led to the problem, rather than the problem itself, skirts too close to depicting the experiences Sixiang gained from their time with LQ as a negative. Positive experiences can lead to unhealthy mindsets and lessons but it's still enough for me to lean towards Melodies over Rapport.
Hmm. I'm unenthusiastic about the snippet of WoG from Discord and how people have run with it. Get the feeling that it's being used to promote a single viewpoint, which is fair, and as a bit of a cudgel against competing ones, which is less pleasant. It's obvious that MoSS engages with the empathy issue directly, but the exact manner isn't too clear. Similarly, PMR engages with Sixiang's nature as a Muse directly, but specifically how and to what exact end is difficult to predict. Each option has a number of ways it can pan out, beyond just the good<->bad result scale.
A popular claim with voting MoSS is that it will be an attempt to instill Ling Qi's more insular value judgements into Sixiang, to lessen the burden of their empathy by pinning different people to different values on some manner of internal hierarchy. This is plausible and supported by Ling Qi arguing exactly that, but I think it ignores some other key context. First, a couple updates back when she was having tea time with Meizhen and Renxiang, Ling Qi reflected that she thought having Sixiang as a counterpoint was "important somehow". In sitting down to actually work things out, this is a relevant instinct in play. Second, I don't think this is going to be Ling Qi simply dictating to Sixiang in how to change, it's going to be a mutual/cooperative effort with push and pull, so the idea of a Ling Qi double is further attenuated. Last, looking at the themes and style of MoSS itself is informative, especially considering that Ling Qi hasn't actually learned the art yet. Hopefully these pump the breaks on the necessity of that particular vote interpretation, but I'd like to focus mostly on the last.
It makes sense that Ling Qi's viewpoint would be influenced by the cultivation of a new social art at the same time Sixiang's is, and that they'll influence each others' take aways, which weakens the relevance of Ling Qi's earlier argument of 'care less about most people'. And MoSS is an art that literally has the Empathy keyword- What? What do you mean it doesn't? Have you read the, oh. Well. For fu- *Ahem* As I was saying, MoSS is an art focused entirely on using the pure Sincere(got the keyword) expression of Music to attain Understanding(ditto) of alien viewpoints. The only reason it doesn't have the Empathy keyword is the somewhat artificial mechanical division in the skills pertaining to spirit/beast/human empathy and humans having dibs on the term because of inherent oppression of THE SYSTEM. It seems odd to me that the process guided by this art would lead naturally to a stingy persona when it comes to empathy. It's certainly possible, just not my first inclination when there's other possibilities.
Obviously, this is speculation, but I can think of a couple ways that the "problem" of empathy might be "solved". First one that jumps out at me is that MoSS is designed to interact with spirits via objective understanding, but we know first hand from Zeqing that there are ideas at the core of some spirits that, in their raw form, can pose a harm in and of themselves to others; the art having safeguards against 'harmful' influences isn't far-fetched, and Sixiang could potentially rework the idea into something usable. Another possibility is leaning into the Wind aspect to lessen the lingering impact of negative empathic resonance with others. They wouldn't be less empathetic, but those feelings would fade soon after gaining some distance, unless there were a specific context like friendship or personal connection to counter the natural tendency; the 'alien mindsets are cool' crowd could get behind this one, I think. This way, there wouldn't be the same overwhelming buildup as they're suffering with now. There's other possibilities too, including just copying Ling Qi, but that one seems contrary to an arc where both characters grow from the experience, and not necessarily in the same direction as the other. And I'm pretty hopeful it'll be an arc like that.
Moving on to PMR, I find it difficult to take suggestions it has nothing to do with empathy seriously. It's on-paper about Sixiang's "nature as a Muse", yes, but Sixiang just finished explaining how that contributed to both the barriers to meaningful empathy and the consequences of that empathy once realized. A filter of incompatible value judgement for the former, and a lack of filer to stimuli for the latter. Because of that, all respect to @yrsillar, but I can't take the flat "a is empathy, b is not empathy" statement at face value. Indirect impact on empathy is still related to empathy, and some of the possibilities are even completely direct. If Sixiang swung back around to the fear-of-death and pain-of-loss viewpoint, it would be by definition diminishing capacity for empathy. I don't think that's likely, and certainly not for a 'positive result', but it fits with the info we have as a possibility.
I'm a bit mystified as to what Sixiang's Muse nature is supposed to help with besides that though, it doesn't feel like it's been elaborated on. I could see their creative drive being given a kickstart and them starting to treat the sensations more as these colours on a painter's palette again, but without losing touch with the true meaning. The practical result of that seems like it could involve recycling unpleasant empathy pickup into creative output to cope, but it would mean pretty dreary fare for the next while. Not sure that's what people are looking for. I wouldn't mind it though. Not that this interpretation is the One True Path or anything. Anyone else want to speculate wildly with me, free from judgement or restraint?
In any case, I don't actually care which vote wins soooo....
[X] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
(P.S.)
Speaking of crazy speculation, what if this vote is also choosing which art gets subsumed by PLR? Actually, thinking about it for a second, that would be Some Bullshit if true. A binary one-time-only choice like that prior to having actually cultivated the arts in question? It'd be absurd. Also, PMR would be the objectively correct choice just from a meridian perspective, since MoSS and MSS use the same meridians and are intended to be hot-swappable.
A popular claim with voting MoSS is that it will be an attempt to instill Ling Qi's more insular value judgements into Sixiang, to lessen the burden of their empathy by pinning different people to different values on some manner of internal hierarchy. This is plausible and supported by Ling Qi arguing exactly that, but I think it ignores some other key context. First, a couple updates back when she was having tea time with Meizhen and Renxiang, Ling Qi reflected that she thought having Sixiang as a counterpoint was "important somehow". In sitting down to actually work things out, this is a relevant instinct in play. Second, I don't think this is going to be Ling Qi simply dictating to Sixiang in how to change, it's going to be a mutual/cooperative effort with push and pull, so the idea of a Ling Qi double is further attenuated. Last, looking at the themes and style of MoSS itself is informative, especially considering that Ling Qi hasn't actually learned the art yet. Hopefully these pump the breaks on the necessity of that particular vote interpretation, but I'd like to focus mostly on the last.
It makes sense that Ling Qi's viewpoint would be influenced by the cultivation of a new social art at the same time Sixiang's is, and that they'll influence each others' take aways, which weakens the relevance of Ling Qi's earlier argument of 'care less about most people'. And MoSS is an art that literally has the Empathy keyword- What? What do you mean it doesn't? Have you read the, oh. Well. For fu- *Ahem* As I was saying, MoSS is an art focused entirely on using the pure Sincere(got the keyword) expression of Music to attain Understanding(ditto) of alien viewpoints. The only reason it doesn't have the Empathy keyword is the somewhat artificial mechanical division in the skills pertaining to spirit/beast/human empathy and humans having dibs on the term because of inherent oppression of THE SYSTEM. It seems odd to me that the process guided by this art would lead naturally to a stingy persona when it comes to empathy. It's certainly possible, just not my first inclination when there's other possibilities.
Obviously, this is speculation, but I can think of a couple ways that the "problem" of empathy might be "solved". First one that jumps out at me is that MoSS is designed to interact with spirits via objective understanding, but we know first hand from Zeqing that there are ideas at the core of some spirits that, in their raw form, can pose a harm in and of themselves to others; the art having safeguards against 'harmful' influences isn't far-fetched, and Sixiang could potentially rework the idea into something usable. Another possibility is leaning into the Wind aspect to lessen the lingering impact of negative empathic resonance with others. They wouldn't be less empathetic, but those feelings would fade soon after gaining some distance, unless there were a specific context like friendship or personal connection to counter the natural tendency; the 'alien mindsets are cool' crowd could get behind this one, I think. This way, there wouldn't be the same overwhelming buildup as they're suffering with now. There's other possibilities too, including just copying Ling Qi, but that one seems contrary to an arc where both characters grow from the experience, and not necessarily in the same direction as the other. And I'm pretty hopeful it'll be an arc like that.
Moving on to PMR, I find it difficult to take suggestions it has nothing to do with empathy seriously. It's on-paper about Sixiang's "nature as a Muse", yes, but Sixiang just finished explaining how that contributed to both the barriers to meaningful empathy and the consequences of that empathy once realized. A filter of incompatible value judgement for the former, and a lack of filer to stimuli for the latter. Because of that, all respect to @yrsillar, but I can't take the flat "a is empathy, b is not empathy" statement at face value. Indirect impact on empathy is still related to empathy, and some of the possibilities are even completely direct. If Sixiang swung back around to the fear-of-death and pain-of-loss viewpoint, it would be by definition diminishing capacity for empathy. I don't think that's likely, and certainly not for a 'positive result', but it fits with the info we have as a possibility.
I'm a bit mystified as to what Sixiang's Muse nature is supposed to help with besides that though, it doesn't feel like it's been elaborated on. I could see their creative drive being given a kickstart and them starting to treat the sensations more as these colours on a painter's palette again, but without losing touch with the true meaning. The practical result of that seems like it could involve recycling unpleasant empathy pickup into creative output to cope, but it would mean pretty dreary fare for the next while. Not sure that's what people are looking for. I wouldn't mind it though. Not that this interpretation is the One True Path or anything. Anyone else want to speculate wildly with me, free from judgement or restraint?
In any case, I don't actually care which vote wins soooo....
[X] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
(P.S.)
Speaking of crazy speculation, what if this vote is also choosing which art gets subsumed by PLR? Actually, thinking about it for a second, that would be Some Bullshit if true. A binary one-time-only choice like that prior to having actually cultivated the arts in question? It'd be absurd. Also, PMR would be the objectively correct choice just from a meridian perspective, since MoSS and MSS use the same meridians and are intended to be hot-swappable.
Analysis, bit late but hey, the headache is finally gone from pounding to throbbing. I'll take that as a win.
[] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)
So keywords: Wind, Empathy
Why does it have a lower chance for a positive result?
-Empathy: Sixiang empathizes with everyone and everything. As a result, the suffering of others pains them, and mutually incompatible objectives hurts them.
-Wind: Wind prescribes freedom, avoidance, connection and abandonment. The Wind doesn't persevere, if there is a problem you Find A New Path.
Fuse the two, and you have a range of probable solutions:
-Forget - Feel it in the now, let it go after. Six will always feel like shit every battle, but casts it away after. Its a lesser burden if they only have to carry it for a time.
-Ignore - Do they really need to empathize with the full emotional spectrum? Is understanding their terror of death important?
-Isolate - Are all beings equal? Should you empathize with the chicken in your lunch? Empathize with your in-group, isolate your out-group. Their experiences don't matter to you. Do not feel them.
Seems fairly clear WHY it might have a lower chance for a good result. The cures, in moderation, are only human, but spirits don't really DO moderation easily.
[] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
-Muse: Sixiang's difficulty with enhanced empathy is that it makes it harder to freely be inspired by and perform when the empathy causes fear of death and loss.
-Moon: Change, perspectives, catalysts. The Moon changes without changing its true nature, it transforms itself to suit the situation.
This is vaguer, but I could see a few solutions at the least:
-Stage Persona - Like an actor, assume a personality best suited to each situation. The grim warrior in battle, the flirtatious tease at parties and the stern teacher with students. Empathy means different things to each face.
-Expression - To quote the FVM insight, its okay to suffer in the moment, if in the suffering you can attain and create beauty. Use what you feel as inspiration, compose and release it with the pain. Its what Ling Qi did herself.
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
[] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)
So keywords: Wind, Empathy
Why does it have a lower chance for a positive result?
-Empathy: Sixiang empathizes with everyone and everything. As a result, the suffering of others pains them, and mutually incompatible objectives hurts them.
-Wind: Wind prescribes freedom, avoidance, connection and abandonment. The Wind doesn't persevere, if there is a problem you Find A New Path.
Fuse the two, and you have a range of probable solutions:
-Forget - Feel it in the now, let it go after. Six will always feel like shit every battle, but casts it away after. Its a lesser burden if they only have to carry it for a time.
-Ignore - Do they really need to empathize with the full emotional spectrum? Is understanding their terror of death important?
-Isolate - Are all beings equal? Should you empathize with the chicken in your lunch? Empathize with your in-group, isolate your out-group. Their experiences don't matter to you. Do not feel them.
Seems fairly clear WHY it might have a lower chance for a good result. The cures, in moderation, are only human, but spirits don't really DO moderation easily.
[] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
-Muse: Sixiang's difficulty with enhanced empathy is that it makes it harder to freely be inspired by and perform when the empathy causes fear of death and loss.
-Moon: Change, perspectives, catalysts. The Moon changes without changing its true nature, it transforms itself to suit the situation.
This is vaguer, but I could see a few solutions at the least:
-Stage Persona - Like an actor, assume a personality best suited to each situation. The grim warrior in battle, the flirtatious tease at parties and the stern teacher with students. Empathy means different things to each face.
-Expression - To quote the FVM insight, its okay to suffer in the moment, if in the suffering you can attain and create beauty. Use what you feel as inspiration, compose and release it with the pain. Its what Ling Qi did herself.
[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)
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Last time they walked around in a physical body they where just a pure Moon spirit. So doubt we need wind to get physical Six.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
The moon has mass. It matters.
