Remove ads

Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Arkeus said:
I still think it could be done, and might be worth doing, but that would create one hell of a talk.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean. If we don't have that helluva talk she's gonna go off and get like. Lake from her mom and use it to disguise her self-harm from others? Earth and make glass shells that look like defense but are just more double-edged weapons?
I think at best she could get Mountain on her own but that's even more isolated/self-focused than Xiulan wants. She craves connections, we're one of her only close female friends and she lost Han Jian. Hell, she's being berated by her family right now for being too much of herself. We gotta let her know that we don't need her to limit or "temper" herself we need her to be herself *and* survive. Grow and sustain resolute. Burn as much as you want but make sure that you survive the fires Tall and Austere.
like I said I think Mountain could do that, but we literally just saw a Mountain cultivator double-edge themselves against a violet threat so I think it would make her *more* survivable but not like. Not make her desire to live to maintain her connections. She seeks power to be able to have control over her connections that she prioritizes. I think TRF would be a good gift for her to train up into knowing Wood Qi, especially because it was vital for us to claim hold on our Connections despite our flighty Yin nature.

wood can fuel her fire in a way that shifts her recklessness from being more afraid of powerlessness than death (burning herself in order to achieve goals), to understanding that offensive power is not the only power and that maybe more tools in the toolbox can keep her from powerlessness *and* death. Something more similar to our brand of recklessness, hopefully xP
 
There's a concept called "Love Languages" that talks about how people process and understand love/care. Xiulan loves fashion, and places high priority on spending money for friends she cares for as well as on herself to feel loved.
the interlude reads Bitter to me with very little Sweet. The thing about Fan Who is almost like a sharp-sour stinger on the top of this whole "see? Now that you have value we're pushing all the other sisters you used to look up to and feel inferior to to the side for you. See? You were always loved. we just rationally can't afford to love all of our family in terms of resource allocation and personal training unless they're showing talent. You know how it is. nothing personal, it's just rational"

Like. Xiulan had inferiority problems, tied her worth to Comparative Strength not Personal Strength, and "I'd rather die burning than survive on a shelf" problems before she came to sect. This was all aggravated by The Monsters and ourselves, but it all comes from her home life. It's part of the reality of her fiscally strapped family in this death world. If she ties Money to Love and Care, she is literally being told that everything she believes about personal time commitment and resource investment being given only if she keeps rising is true while also they're saying to slow down because they love all the kids. Even the ones that will be losing the personal time commitment and resource allocation because they've stagnated and are no longer worthy of their limited resources and time.

I don't trust her family to be able to re-contextualize this core of "you're only as valued and loved as your cultivation/power" at the root of Xiulan's self-destruction because they believe it even if they can't seem to connect the dots about it. Probably because they use different "love languages" and don't see that this reallocation of resources is very literally telling Xiulan "You're only as valued and loved as your cultivation/power" no matter what words the use to cover the actions.

I believe TRF can re-contextualize the core to something a bit less fatalistic. Same as it did for us, pushing us to accept the value we place in our Connections so that despite our flighty-ethereal nature there are some things that we will Stand for. Despite Xiulan's self-destructive nature there are people it's worth Surviving for. Something along those lines. I just. I really don't trust a family that formed these issues in Xiulan to know emotionally how to help her express her self-sacrificing nature without somehow suppressing it or having Xiulan find a rebellious twist on the "tempering" arts that further masks her lack of self-value outside of comparative strength.
TRF allowed (and allows) us to take the risky/ambitious paths more safely, so that we can keep pace without repeated long trips to med-bay. Maybe Xiulan finds non-wood ways to do that, TRF does cap out at Green 2. But it's a sentimental and ambitious sort of "I challenge you" gift. We think she's very good at what she does, and we trust her to burn the shit out of an assassin that we tag and finish a fight if we go down. We think she's very strong (Big ol green centipeded *and* a green assassin at like, half qi) we just don't think she's rounded, which is true right now. That lack of rounding means we'll have to do things that are risky to compensate for the areas we think she might be lacking in, IE we're not sure she can catch or survive an assassin so we take a hit to make sure she can play to her Biggatons. Ultimately like, if she thinks she's weak then We think that she's strong enough and driven enough to find non-biggaton routes to power *while* keeping her biggatons. The more durable, mobile and survivable you are the better able you are to exploit opportunities and position your Biggatons where they will do the most good.
I think she doesn't need more people telling her to temper herself or change. We could be someone that tells her "We love who you are, and we also think you can do better! Don't stop self-sacrificing, but find a point that you say No More"
sure there's a risk it doesn't go well. But honestly I would rather try and trust our SL4 status to mitigate a flub, than trust her family to not exacerbate her underlying issues accidentally and push her on a further rebellious path of Death Flags. Xiulan almost died last thread. I'm not trying to see that again D:
 
veekie said:
I don't think so, they're descended from a ducal branch, which is literally the pedigree of TRF itself. There shouldn't be any difference in quality at Green level, but the Purifying Sun probably goes for regeneration and Shoot Down over armor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Armor wouldn't make sense for LQ if not for her being, at heart, a buffer. If she was just worried about improving herself, she should have gone all in on Dodge and Fade and no-sell hits based on A-class DEX rather than C-class STA.

JowKeen said:
I don't trust her family to be able to re-contextualize this core of "you're only as valued and loved as your cultivation/power" at the root of Xiulan's self-destruction because they believe it even if they can't seem to connect the dots about it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Doing something about that is, unfortunately, way beyond our current means; as a matter of fact, Lanlan's liable to cultivate herself into a pile of ash way before LQ gets the personal/political power to influence an old, Indigo family way over there across the Empire. LQ's Way should be able to fit eventual arts or domain effects which help our allies or underlings to train (indeed, that's probably mama Qingge's best shot at mediocrity), but that requires we stop eating poisoned stabs, so...
 
NullVoid said:
Doing something about that is, unfortunately, way beyond our current means; as a matter of fact, Lanlan's liable to cultivate herself into a pile of ash way before LQ gets the personal/political power to influence an old, Indigo family way over there across the Empire. LQ's Way should be able to fit eventual arts or domain effects which help our allies or underlings to train (indeed, that's probably mama Qingge's best shot at mediocrity), but that requires we stop eating poisoned stabs, so...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We don't need the "personal/political power to influence an old, Indigo family way over there across the Empire" we only need to talk with Xiulan about things and gift her TRF so she can do it herself with the flexible insights that the Art gives.
 
1986ctcel said:
We don't need the "personal/political power to influence an old, Indigo family way over there across the Empire" we only need to talk with Xiulan about things and gift her TRF so she can do it herself with the flexible insights that the Art gives.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was specifically talking about the bit I quoted, about the Gu Family being unable to understand Lanlan's hangups, not about fixing them ourselves...
 
In all honesty, the fact is that there is nothing we can do to her family. Nor should we want to. What we can do is try to help our friend, and TRF has a chance to do that. It's worth at least taking the chance to try. Because there is a serious issue here, and we cannot just complacently let it continue, especially because she is leaving our sphere of influence. If I had known she was going to leave sooner I would have pushed for an attempt to break her fatalalism earlier, though in truth I had no idea it was this bad. It's just something we have to at least try.
 
[X] Drop the thought, even with this incursion, they had been safe. Increase the security of the house, but let her family stay here. (-2 Green Stones, family remains in unsafe area)

Just in case the other option would gain surprise traction.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by 1986ctcel on Nov 20, 2019 at 1:35 PM, finished with 203 posts and 79 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Leosky00 said:
In all honesty, the fact is that there is nothing we can do to her family. Nor should we want to. What we can do is try to help our friend, and TRF has a chance to do that. It's worth at least taking the chance to try. Because there is a serious issue here, and we cannot just complacently let it continue, especially because she is leaving our sphere of influence. If I had known she was going to leave sooner I would have pushed for an attempt to break her fatalalism earlier, though in truth I had no idea it was this bad. It's just something we have to at least try.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Going up to a person and slapping them with one art is not going to "fix" any issues, we where over this in FoD when people where looking for elements to stop LQ going "chaotic evil" due to Moon and Darkness arts. Elements and arts are window dressing to the lessons you learn and those are personal, Xiulan will not in any shape or form get the same lesson from TRF as LQ.

It is frankly not even trying really, it is just throwing something at a wall and hoping that it will bounce back as gold.

It is even worse because LQ is a big part of the reason that Lanlan is pushing herself, people want to give an incredibly proud and stubborn person a pity present and are expecting a good outcome. If we wanted to "help" her we would have spent time with her and helped form her as a person, oh wait we did and we got this Xiulan.
 
Vanguard_D said:
Going up to a person and slapping them with one art is not going to "fix" any issues, we where over this in FoD when people where looking for elements to stop LQ going "chaotic evil" due to Moon and Darkness arts. Elements and arts are window dressing to the lessons you learn and those are personal, Xiulan will not in any shape or form get the same lesson from TRF as LQ.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
> Problem is connected to Xiulans developing Way
> Domains inform Way
> Domains formed through Insights
> Arts provide Insights

Your position:

> Arts wont solve the problem, so lets not even bother

You're just flat out wrong there, m8
 
Vanguard_D said:
Going up to a person and slapping them with one art is not going to "fix" any issues, we where over this in FoD when people where looking for elements to stop LQ going "chaotic evil" due to Moon and Darkness arts. Elements and arts are window dressing to the lessons you learn and those are personal, Xiulan will not in any shape or form get the same lesson from TRF as LQ.

It is frankly not even trying really, it is just throwing something at a wall and hoping that it will bounce back as gold.

It is even worse because LQ is a big part of the reason that Lanlan is pushing herself, people want to give an incredibly proud and stubborn person a pity present and are expecting a good outcome. If we wanted to "help" her we would have spent time with her and helped form her as a person, oh wait we did and we got this Xiulan.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And yet she's literally burning herself out and we have an Art themed around steady growth, endurance and rejuventaion hmmmmmmm nope obviously nothing can come of it whatsoever and there's no point unless the solution is perfect. Attempting to stack the deck a little to give her better odds of succeeding isn't worth it no sirree.
 
Last edited:
Vanguard_D said:
Going up to a person and slapping them with one art is not going to "fix" any issues, we where over this in FoD when people where looking for elements to stop LQ going "chaotic evil" due to Moon and Darkness arts. Elements and arts are window dressing to the lessons you learn and those are personal, Xiulan will not in any shape or form get the same lesson from TRF as LQ.

It is frankly not even trying really, it is just throwing something at a wall and hoping that it will bounce back as gold.

It is even worse because LQ is a big part of the reason that Lanlan is pushing herself, people want to give an incredibly proud and stubborn person a pity present and are expecting a good outcome. If we wanted to "help" her we would have spent time with her and helped form her as a person, oh wait we did and we got this Xiulan.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ok first off wrong. I never said anything about fixing. I literally said in another post that TRF was not a fix. Your inability to comprehend the general thrust behind wanting to give this art is astounding. First, while we were a big part of where and how xiulan ended up, that was already present in her. This has been building up in her backstory and character for a long time. At best, we were the stick that broke the camels back, and caused her final frustrated Ill-thought out attempt to gain power. Another thing, I already directly said is that if i knew she was leaving, and that she was this fatalistic, I would have voted for more options to try and break her of this thought pattern. As unlike the "evil" Ling Qi argument that you just brought up, her thought patterns are genuinely unhealthy. Lastly, and I already said this too, is the fact that TRF is kinda the same as a last ditch effort. It's not likely at all to succeed. But it's still a fucking attempt. Suggest something else that has a chance of working and I'll back it all the same. And more than that, there are only so many kinds of insights you can get from an art, and we have a pretty good idea of what general type she would gain if she mastered it. And yes, certain elemental energies do affect personality traits.

All of this isn't going to have a huge affect no matter what. But hopefully, it will still help a person we aren't going to be seeing for an age.

Edit: someone mentioned this, but I will make this incredibly simple for you and give some examples.

Darkness: enhances desire, in the case of Ling Qi her greed. This has prominently shown up in narrative and her thoughts.

Wind: freedom, the good and bad it brings. Also present in narrative. We actually moved away from that.

Fire: super passion, xiulan from the very beginning.

Now arts/insights

SCS: when we mastered this, every insight had to do with motion. This has nothing to do with our mental state in truth, this art mastered will almost certainly give out motion related insights.

AM: this gave insights related to mirrors, truth and other such things. This art would always have given such insights when mastered.

TRF: all about growth, not taking a step back even if the rest can be given away. No matter what, the insights gained from this art will be flavored by growth, rejuvenation, and hardiness.

And before anyone says anything, of course the insight would be different for different people/mental states. But the general ideal relating to the art is always going to be present.
 
Last edited:
Every single participant of this discussion is missing the forest for the trees. The singularly most important possibility gleaned from the interlude, intimately tied to one of our most important friendships.

With Xiulan leaving, we can finally be non-awkward friends with Han Jian again! Woohoo!
 
Last edited:
TehChron said:
You're just flat out wrong there, m8
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair, cultivators can only get insights from arts that are compatible with their way - it's possible that TRF isn't compatible with Xiulan's way anymore for some reason and would in fact be of no help. Whether said possibility is the case is a mystery, but handing TRF over doesn't guarantee she'd get an insight at all let alone the specific insight we want LanLan to get.
 
1986ctcel said:
........no
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It came up back when people were talking about trying to get arts to teach the fam from the library.

We were told that sharing most techs from the sect library was forbidden. It was months ago though.


I don't remember if TRF counted as a sect art though.

Edit: I should specify, it's forbidden to teach outside the sect.
 
Last edited:
AbeoLogos said:
Every single participant of this discussion is missing the forest for the tress. The singularly most important possibility gleaned from the interlude, intimately tied to one of our most important friendships.

With Xiulan leaving, we can finally be non-awkward friends with Han Jian again! Woohoo!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think Abeo is right here guys.

Obviously, we must have Hanyi convert Han Jian into an Ice Revenant and have him bond with Xuilan so she can be Winter cultivation sisters with us.
 
Asael said:
It came up back when people were talking about trying to get arts to teach the fam from the library.

We were told that sharing most techs from the sect library was forbidden. It was months ago though.


I don't remember if TRF counted as a sect art though.

Edit: I should specify, it's forbidden to teach outside the sect.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dude TRF is not an Argent Art, it's in the name.
 
More seriously, what @Asael said. Arts provided by the sect generally are not permissable to be shared further by disciples without a formal arrangement of additional compensation being worked out. Sect arts are flatly disallowed, but arts that happen to be in the sect's libraries are still restricted.

TRF was provisioned to Ling Qi under somewhat unusual circumstances, but we have no particular confirmation that those include an exemption from the requirement to pay up before teaching the art to other people.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Especially in the context of a huge argument over a probable impossibility.
 
Honestly that's a good point. The best I could say is that it was personally given to us by an elder, and didn't seem to be a part of the sects libraries. Also I'm pretty sure IC Qi would know if it's possible to give it out. So I'll still vote if the chance comes up because im still expecting an goodbye scene . Yrsillar/Qi would make it clear then if it's not an option.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top