Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Although, I guess there has been a lot of clues that the sect is having manpower issues. Too much to do, not enough time to do it.

Keep in mind the intersection of conditions that caused them to hire outside was "A high Green Jade specialist was already coming through on other business"

It could be that this has been sitting on the sect job board for months, but is unsure and dangerous enough it was never worth anyone doing.
 
I think expecting clairvoyance to let us keep tabs on our fief while we're out abroad is as unrealistic as expecting precognition to warn us of a barbarian attack. That is, these are, like, peak Cyan things at minimum. And that's with us being in the relative neighbourhood of the province.

Xin gets to jump all over the province in a dream plane with a bunch of babies in tow while casually having dinner with her husband because she's a Prism and Great Spirit connection abuses.
 
I think expecting clairvoyance to let us keep tabs on our fief while we're out abroad is as unrealistic as expecting precognition to warn us of a barbarian attack. That is, these are, like, peak Cyan things at minimum. And that's with us being in the relative neighbourhood of the province.

Xin gets to jump all over the province in a dream plane with a bunch of babies in tow while casually having dinner with her husband because she's a Prism and Great Spirit connection abuses.
I think that Xin, as an aspect, of an aspect, of the Great Spirit of the Moon.
Gets to be White+ when she is about as the Great Spirit.
Remember, Xin is, in a way, just a very independent mask of a much greater entity.
 
I think that Xin, as an aspect, of an aspect, of the Great Spirit of the Moon.
Gets to be White+ when she is about as the Great Spirit.
Remember, Xin is, in a way, just a very independent mask of a much greater entity.
Fun thought: it's bullshit of an amusingly similar character with the Twilight King, only not super infectious. Multi or fractal soul stuff is cheating.
 
Chen Mei quickly washed her hands, using the special soap made from the essence of water elementals.
Minor quibble, essence of water elementals would be inexact terminology compared to the norm. Should probably be cores of water spirits
I don't know that such thing exists in this universe...Actually Fu Xiang made a huge deal in FoD that his technique to communicate long distance was very costly and difficult. I think this wouldn't be the case if communication technology existed in universe
This was elaborated before. The Empire does have long distance communication methods, but they are costly enough to use, and largely unique to a particular production style that expanding them or using them for most projects is hell, as:
-Formations must be powered. Powerful formations cost more cores/stones/attuned cultivators to run.
-Formations are individually designed, and not compatible unless their designers have similar Ways. Its stated that the usual process is for a formation designer's work to be maintained and propagated by their apprentices, but if their apprentice doesn't reach the same heights of potential, the whole thing breaks down. Where you want to adapt the output of one system to another system you need a human jacked into both as the relay and chokepoint.
-Post-Green designers are basically like stereotypical artists, they don't work for a practical function, but rather in pursuit of an ideal. Someone who can make something good may be ideologically opposed to spending their time improving and elaborating such a system as they refine their Way.
-Physics is literally different from province to province, subtly. This is from the activities of local spirits and ascensions changing things. Anything cheap enough to be produced on a significant scale by a maximum of Green cultivators is going to need on-site engineers to adjust, because depending on the medium the communications pass through, interference and prodding by nosy spirits is going to be distressingly common.

Which is why the Ministry of Communications has Greens and Yellows running letters. Its literally cheaper and more reliable.
You don't need much in the way of specialized Ways, you just need somebody passable at self defense and really good at running away.
 
"Of course not, you're far more frightening than any wisp of a spirit," Ling Qi replied lightly. Meizhen glanced her way and let out a small, nearly silent huff of amusement. "Good of you to notice. I have made some efforts in that direction." Ling Qi considered her experience with the girls aura and the spike of intensity she had noticed in it over the weeks before. "...Is that what you chose to make your domain?" She asked quietly Bai Meizhen looked at her, but didn't answer. Ling Qi flushed a little and glanced away. "Haha, sorry. That was a little rude to ask," She apologized a bit awkwardly. "Really, do not forget yourself so easily," Meizhen sighed. "Let us proceed to the market."

Meizhen's golden eyes glared at her hard for several seconds as they broke apart. Neither of them was breathing heavily, but they were more tense than when they began. "Because I understand what happens when ones reputation for retaliation is damaged," she said finally. "You recall what that wretch Kang Zihao said that day he ambushed us?" Ling Qi eyed her friend warily, staying in stance as she thought back. "...Something about a clan member of yours being executed," she replied, a cold feeling settling in her stomach. "My Mother, Bai Meilin," she replied stiffly. "Was executed for the assassination of the Sixth Prince. Her name was struck from our clan rolls, and Grandfather was forced to denounce her," she continued, her eyes narrowing. "No one would have dared make such an accusation if we were still feared as we should be."

I'm sure someone's brought it up already, but I was reading the first thread and came across this.

Truly Meizhen is the cutest snake, making her Domain based on the lessons she learned from her mothers death.
 
Truly Meizhen is the cutest snake, making her Domain based on the lessons she learned from her mothers death.
Even cooler is that she developed her domain to some extent to not include people that she explicitly trusts. Which is like, have the whole world be terrified, except for a couple of close people.

Truly, she just wants to be left alone doing what she loves. Fishing.
 
So about that Zhengui guy….

I'm worried about him due to the lack of mutual themes, cultivation, and capabilities with Ling Qi. Chiefly, the thematic and narrative implications. @Arkeus did a good job of summarizing my thoughts, earlier.

But let's pull back a bit. Spirit beast bonds are pursued because they offer cultivation and manpower bonuses to the cultivator and opportunity to reach otherwise unattainable heights for the spirit. Also, a lot of spirits are just kind of forced into it, but whatever. At higher realms, there's gotta be interplay of some kind between the Ways of cultivators and their spirits, even just feeling out each other's boundaries, and probably especially with new cultivator families, or old spirit-blooded ones.

In any case, the fact that Ling Qi doesn't make much use of Zhengui's cultivation bonuses, paired with his naturally 5+ realm potential, mean the conventional purpose and promise of a spirit bond isn't being fulfilled, meaningfully. This isn't inherently a problem, and their relationship is one of family, but beyond that, as partners there's a gap left. What good are they to each other? I disagree that Ling Qi's drive for improvement is in itself sufficient, or at the very least not satisfying, and the one stealth technique she imparted to him while he was a borderline sub-sapient infant is adorable, but more of a party trick than a serious capability.

When we look at Ling Qi's arts for common ground with Zhengui, keeping in mind that the mechanical benefits are only related tangentially, the selection isn't great. Elementally, there's no fire since Argent Current, and Wood consists of TRF, SES, and soon BKSD. There's also the unlearned Imperturbable Manor's Hearth which is both Fire and Wood, that we almost certainly won't ever cultivate. Thematically, the problem is that almost none of this already narrow selection fits the philosophy of Zhengui's nature. TRF has overlap with his boundless vital force and the titanic growth common to xuanwu and really big trees. SES is also a tale of a tree, but its stubborn dogged grip on life seems out of keeping with Zhengui's nature of destruction and renewal. IMH's elemental overlap with Zhengui is skin-deep, having nothing to do with his themes. BKSD is the story of a final clash, so there's some potential looks into relevant destruction, but I'm skeptical, and a growth from destruction theme doesn't look like it's where the art is headed. There's just very little that Ling Qi and Zhengui share, few things of substance -of advantage- that they're offering each other.

Which dovetails into my narrative concerns with how the two interact and other characters. Since they have that gap of ability between them, there has been a tendency for some 3rd party characters to be available within the context of helping Zhengui develop. It's clearly intended as a bonus freebie added to a social choice, but the narrative effect is that Ling Qi relies on outsourcing his growth to other people, and ones that she doesn't even know that well. If you look at the training they do alone, it's just kind of her watching him and giving occasional encouragement. It's a bit shallow. This feels uncomfortable given her themes and the basis of her Domain, both because it forces more intimate collaboration between him and only non-family and because she's sitting on her hands on the sideline.

There's a negative effect on the social interaction as well. For one, a weirdly large amount of Zhengui's established tension with other characters is that he's kind of a brat towards guys who Ling Qi is maybe kind of not really scoping out as marriage material(c'mon, Xuan Shi's lurking in the back of mind there to some degree), which is kind of weird. It also leans into the history of Ling Qi extracting a lot of favors and value from Xuan Shi, which I know more than a few players are uncomfortable with, while kind of reducing Xuan Shi's character to his capacity to be a conveniently on-hand member of the Xuan clan. Some interesting things have been simmering under the surface there like Zhengui emphasizing Xuan Shi as a water dude when he's mostly earth, or the latter's various discomforts and possible insecurities around Zhengui as a xuanwu and his own lack of a spirit. The problem is there's those hints, but another social event with the premise of "help make my turtle kid stronger" comes off as directionless and insincere, even inconsiderate. As long as Ling Qi isn't capable of meaningful independent collaboration with Zhengui, it's going to have a distorting effect on narrative depictions of their interaction with those who do have overlap with his elements or abilities, because the nature of the quest as a game incentivizes @yrsillar leveraging them as a resource towards covering the gaps in our character's abilities. Here, that dilutes their use as characters with their own autonomy, and papers over some gaps that should probably be causing tension in Ling Qi's more personal affairs.

This is why I got morose at SNR cresting the horizon, despite thinking the art is cool. Our Fortitude(physical armor skill) is currently capped, waiting for the right circumstances to develop it into an advanced skill, and SNR is a fortitude keyword art. It's a darkness art, a yin art, and there's a lot of aesthetic and some thematic overlap with some of our core art suite, including FSS. When we equip SNR, we'll be unequipping TRF. Removing the one art that had significant overlap with Zhengui's portfolio from our loadout while we're on the cusp of internalizing greater understanding and formalization of our approach to personal physical defense doesn't bode well for increasing our understanding of our tortoise-child's Ways. Especially since there aren't really relevant arts lined up for building any. I get that this is mostly a matter of poor/weird timing of some of the many moving pieces, but that doesn't make it less of an issue.

An appropriate advanced skill would make all the difference, since it'd be a real mark of commitment to some mutually relevant (beneficial!) understanding. The arts wouldn't matter so much if there was something else on the playing field. If it were up to me, I'd have Ling Qi's advanced Fortitude skill build on some of the times she's been more seriously wounded and her semi-unusually outsized health pool to come to an understanding of ignoring smaller wounds as inconsequential. Not quite regenning like Zhengui, but still rooted broadly in the concept of vitality. Similar to Sun Liling's fighting at full strength if she's got a drop of blood left dealio, but funnier because Ling Qi isn't Sun Liling.

Anyway, Zhengui's not going to get Music to any relevance overnight, or maybe ever, because he's a spirit beast and they're so so much more limited in their flexibility compared to cultivators. The gap needs to be bridged from our side, at least a little. The current narrative of Zhengui "failing" in battle and then bending over backwards to improve while Ling Qi watches and does nothing of her own about it isn't satisfying, and I want to work past it. Synergy is a two-way street.
 
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So about that Zhengui guy….

I'm worried about him due to the lack of mutual themes, cultivation, and capabilities with Ling Qi. Chiefly, the thematic and narrative implications. @Arkeus did a good job of summarizing my thoughts, earlier.

But let's pull back a bit. Spirit beast bonds are pursued because they offer cultivation and manpower bonuses to the cultivator and opportunity to reach otherwise unattainable heights for the spirit. Also, a lot of spirits are just kind of forced into it, but whatever. At higher realms, there's gotta be interplay of some kind between the Ways of cultivators and their spirits, even just feeling out each other's boundaries, and probably especially with new cultivator families, or old spirit-blooded ones.

In any case, the fact that Ling Qi doesn't make much use of Zhengui's cultivation bonuses, paired with his naturally 5+ realm potential, mean the conventional purpose and promise of a spirit bond isn't being fulfilled, meaningfully. This isn't inherently a problem, and their relationship is one of family, but beyond that, as partners there's a gap left. What good are they to each other? I disagree that Ling Qi's drive for improvement is in itself sufficient, or at the very least not satisfying, and the one stealth technique she imparted to him while he was a borderline sub-sapient infant is adorable, but more of a party trick than a serious capability.

When we look at Ling Qi's arts for common ground with Zhengui, keeping in mind that the mechanical benefits are only related tangentially, the selection isn't great. Elementally, there's no fire since Argent Current, and Wood consists of TRF, SES, and soon BKSD. There's also the unlearned Imperturbable Manor's Hearth which is both Fire and Wood, that we almost certainly won't ever cultivate. Thematically, the problem is that almost none of this already narrow selection fits the philosophy of Zhengui's nature. TRF has overlap with his boundless vital force and the titanic growth common to xuanwu and really big trees. SES is also a tale of a tree, but its stubborn dogged grip on life seems out of keeping with Zhengui's nature of destruction and renewal. IMH's elemental overlap with Zhengui is skin-deep, having nothing to do with his themes. BKSD is the story of a final clash, so there's some potential looks into relevant destruction, but I'm skeptical, and a growth from destruction theme doesn't look like it's where the art is headed. There's just very little that Ling Qi and Zhengui share, few things of substance -of advantage- that they're offering each other.

Which dovetails into my narrative concerns with how the two interact and other characters. Since they have that gap of ability between them, there has been a tendency for some 3rd party characters to be available within the context of helping Zhengui develop. It's clearly intended as a bonus freebie added to a social choice, but the narrative effect is that Ling Qi relies on outsourcing his growth to other people, and ones that she doesn't even know that well. If you look at the training they do alone, it's just kind of her watching him and giving occasional encouragement. It's a bit shallow. This feels uncomfortable given her themes and the basis of her Domain, both because it forces more intimate collaboration between him and only non-family and because she's sitting on her hands on the sideline.

There's a negative effect on the social interaction as well. For one, a weirdly large amount of Zhengui's established tension with other characters is that he's kind of a brat towards guys who Ling Qi is maybe kind of not really scoping out as marriage material(c'mon, Xuan Shi's lurking in the back of mind there to some degree), which is kind of weird. It also leans into the history of Ling Qi extracting a lot of favors and value from Xuan Shi, which I know more than a few players are uncomfortable with, while kind of reducing Xuan Shi's character to his capacity to be a conveniently on-hand member of the Xuan clan. Some interesting things have been simmering under the surface there like Zhengui emphasizing Xuan Shi as a water dude when he's mostly earth, or the latter's various discomforts and possible insecurities around Zhengui as a xuanwu and his own lack of a spirit. The problem is there's those hints, but another social event with the premise of "help make my turtle kid stronger" comes off as directionless and insincere, even inconsiderate. As long as Ling Qi isn't capable of meaningful independent collaboration with Zhengui, it's going to have a distorting effect on narrative depictions of their interaction with those who do have overlap with his elements or abilities, because the nature of the quest as a game incentivizes @yrsillar leveraging them as a resource towards covering the gaps in our character's abilities. Here, that dilutes their use as characters with their own autonomy, and papers over some gaps that should probably be causing tension in Ling Qi's more personal affairs.

This is why I got morose at SNR cresting the horizon, despite thinking the art is cool. Our Fortitude(physical armor skill) is currently capped, waiting for the right circumstances to develop it into an advanced skill, and SNR is a fortitude keyword art. It's a darkness art, a yin art, and there's a lot of aesthetic and some thematic overlap with some of our core art suite, including FSS. When we equip SNR, we'll be unequipping TRF. Removing the one art that had significant overlap with Zhengui's portfolio from our loadout while we're on the cusp of internalizing greater understanding and formalization of our approach to personal physical defense doesn't bode well for increasing our understanding of our tortoise-child's Ways. Especially since there aren't really relevant arts lined up for building any. I get that this is mostly a matter of poor/weird timing of some of the many moving pieces, but that doesn't make it less of an issue.

An appropriate advanced skill would make all the difference, since it'd be a real mark of commitment to some mutually relevant (beneficial!) understanding. The arts wouldn't matter so much if there was something else on the playing field. If it were up to me, I'd have Ling Qi's advanced Fortitude skill build on some of the times she's been more seriously wounded and her semi-unusually outsized health pool to come to an understanding of ignoring smaller wounds as inconsequential. Not quite regenning like Zhengui, but still rooted broadly in the concept of vitality. Similar to Sun Liling's fighting at full strength if she's got a drop of blood left dealio, but funnier because Ling Qi isn't Sun Liling.

Anyway, Zhengui's not going to get Music to any relevance overnight, or maybe ever, because he's a spirit beast and they're so so much more limited in their flexibility compared to cultivators. The gap needs to be bridged from our side, at least a little. The current narrative of Zhengui "failing" in battle and then bending over backwards to improve while Ling Qi watches and does nothing of her own about it isn't satisfying, and I want to work past it. Synergy is a two-way street
I think you bring up some pretty good points, but I'm not nearly as worried about Zhengui.

I agree that the arts we do have, and are building up towards, don't have much thematic connection to Zhengui. I agree that Ling Qi should spend more time with Zhengui developing him, not in the arts he has but in who he is as Zhengui. I also agree that formulating our advanced fortitude skill as something like endurance (referencing Ling Qi's consistently never giving up and always pushing to the end) and connecting it to Zhengui's own ability to endure and stick it out in tough situations.

However, I've noticed a couple of things that haven't been discussed all that much in regards to Zhengui and Ling Qi, which is how Ling Qi's domain (and more specifically the insights) have some nice synergy and, I think, should be explored. The specific insight I'm talking about is "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings."

I see this as being very thematically connected with Zhengui's own nature as a spirit beast of growth and destruction and that inherent cycle that brings. We have growth which is destroyed, only to feed more growth and we endings which feed into beginnings, only to eventually end as well. Both Ling Qi's insight and Zhengui's nature inherently revolve around the idea that from the old comes the new. I feel that this is a very strong connection between Ling Qi and Zhengui that should be explored in much more depth in the story. I would love a whole narrative arc centered around Zhengui and Ling Qi really focusing in on what it means to be Zhengui as a spirit beast of growth and destruction, and Ling Qi using her own insight into such a similar cycle of endings and beginnings to help Zhengui develop himself more.

And that is not the only thematic connection I see between Ling Qi and Zhengui in Ling Qi's domain. There is also this insight from SCS "There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end." While I think that this insight has weaker thematic connections to Zhengui, it does reflect Zhengui's own inherent nature of growth and destruction. There is always something being destroyed or growing in Zhengui's cycle, and growth/destruction is inherently something changing. And if it's changing, it's not becoming stagnant. While not as strong as the before mentioned insight, it should be useful enough for Ling Qi to help Zhengui understand even more about his nature.

Additionally, as I've mentioned earlier, I would love to see our Fortitude skill morph into something like Endurance. Rather than focus on the immovable aspects of TRF's armor, focus more on the longevity and staying power that it represents. Similar to Zhengui's own ability to keep gathering qi and keep healing and keep staying on the battlefield. Heck, even his self-destruct technique focuses in on him staying on the battlefield long past the time he should have left, by healing him to full and affecting the battlefield in one last time. (Although, now that I'm looking that ability seems to have been removed. Hopefully, it's just an error and Zhengui didn't forget about it).

While I do think that Xuan Shi and Xiulan can be helpful in Zhengui's abilities, ultimately they will not be helpful for him in trying to understand exactly what he is. He is unique in that there are other Xuanwu, but no other Xuanwu like him. In fact, I think this uniqueness would be a natural way to transition Zhengui's narrative from just being bratty to being bratty because he doesn't understand who he is and his place in the world. Other people like Wolf-girl want to see him or have him be financially profitable (like Bao Qian) but no one has answers to why he is the way he is and where he belongs. Ling Qi, I feel, is in a position to help this most crucial part of Zhengui growing up. Using her own insights into endings/beginnings and change/growth, Ling Qi can help Zhengui develop who Zhengui is, and not what's most beneficial to Ling Qi.

But now that I mention it, I see a lot of narrative potential between Zhengui and Ling Qi in their personal stories. Both are outsiders to their respective groups (Zhengui is completely different from other Xuanwu and Ling Qi will always be the commoner entering the nobility.) And I think that there is something beautiful to be explored in that connection. Of always knowing that you'll never be fully accepted into your group, but having someone always beside you who also won't be accepted into their group. A story of two odd ducklings struggling and succeeding in the harsh world together.

So while I agree with pretty much all of the points you brought up, I'm optimistic because I see a lot of potential between Ling Qi and Zhengui that simply hasn't been developed yet.
 
Putting in my own two cents about how Ling Qi and Zhengui (mis)match in terms of build and themes, I think there is one area where they do seem to synergize, and that's in domain themes. It's been mentioned before that Zhengui seems to be keyed to the concept of destruction and regrowth, and this is a concept that we are really starting to see in Ling Qi's domain. Her FVM and FSS insights are about perservering through pain and loss to find create something better, her SCS insight is about continual growth, and TRF is about refusing to let your core values be broken, whatever else you might lose. There is a very strong theme of withstanding adversity, and even using adversity to strengthen oneself. It's that the idea no matter what trials Ling Qi is put through, she will inevitably survive with the most core parts of herself and emerge stronger than ever. Our upcoming arts also seem to tie into this idea quite well. Dirge is the final act of defiance of a doomed race that refuses to go quietly, a race whose destruction marked to beginning of the new era of humanity. March's sense of inevitability works well for Ling Qi's refusal to let anything truly stop her progression, but the description also cites the crushing glaciers as the chief source of the provinces river waters. Even Reflection continues TRF and SCS's general theme of surviving seemingly overwhelming destruction.

Basically, if we want to see more synergy between Ling Qi and Zhengui narratively, rather than focus on elements, it may be more useful to focus on the theme of relentless growth in the face of destruction.

And now I see a lot of what I'm saying just got ninja'd by Thor's Twin. Well, good on him, I guess.:p
 
The thing we really need to do for ZhenGui is take him back to meet his progenitor inside the mountain. That's a story no one else can infringe on and one where he can really take center stage.
Might also get Ling Qi the chance to shove the mother appellation onto someone else.


Edit: By the way, does anyone know how far we are from threshold Cultivation wise?
 
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But now that I mention it, I see a lot of narrative potential between Zhengui and Ling Qi in their personal stories.

I am infinitely ashamed that I've never notice that Ling Qi, her spirits and even her lieges all share the same core ideal. Ling Qi has her insights and Zhengui has his regrowth theme yes. But Hanyi is the child of Zeqing who died to give her a chance to grow beyond her mother rather than forever be a part of her. Sixiang is a part of the whole like Hanyi would have become and will never die like a mortal being would, but even then they are a teacher to help a young Ling Qi grow as they live a little themselves through her growth. Cai Renxiang was insulted by the thought that the Cai's march of progress was temporary because where Ling Qi believed in improvement in the waxing and waning of life the Cai are unrelenting in their pursuit to make the world a better place permanently one step at a time, which she didn't realize was the exact same thing from a different angle. Even Bai Meizhen wants to grow beyond but still preserve the old Bai ways by restoring them to prominence through friendliness when intimidation failed, while Li Suyin dreams of a better future with people more deserving of goodness.

It's all themes of the young inheriting the old whether that be oneself reaching fulfillment through achievement, children given loving guidance by their parents or teachers preserving their knowledge for the students to continue on. Ling Qi is using Weilu Arts for Christs sake! She is not in any way a remnant of their kind but still she grows from their memories, learning of their bloody mistakes and their achievements to become the newest best of the old and present.

Zhengui is a manifestation of the very core of Ling Qi's entire journey, philosophy and life. We need a Zhengui arc where he can properly show these themes to our family.
 
The thing we really need to do for ZhenGui is take him back to meet his progenitor inside the mountain. That's a story no one else can infringe on and one where he can really take center stage.
Might also get Ling Qi the chance to shove the mother appellation onto someone else.


Edit: By the way, does anyone know how far we are from threshold Cultivation wise?
didn't the elders say that could never happen?
 
Whichever CDE successor Art we get we should base the old Weilu Art's insight on the growth theme. The scholarly Clairvoyance Art is about growing through learning both in the short term by growing through new information to solve problems/combat and in the long term by improving ourselves permanently through the pursuit of knowledge. To ever seek understanding from the past and grow for the future. The Precognition Art meanwhile is not necessarily about improving oneself in the present but rather about growth through the building of a better future. To seek a better future so that the present is always a chance for growth.
 
didn't the elders say that could never happen?
While it's definitely possible I've forgotten, I don't remember this happening. More importantly, though, our situation is very different from before. I wouldn't be surprised if we could start making headway with requests, even if they might originally have disagreed.


We should hit Green 4 end of turn 9, with turn 10 being our first turn in it, and we hope to hit Bronze 4 two turns later.
I'm looking forward to it. We'll finally be able to start creating our own arts then, which will be interesting.
 
No, that's most likely Green 6, what with it being named "Green Formation".

EDIT: and to add insult to injury, we're not likely to reach Green 6 while in the sect.
"This truth then, leads to our subject matter proper. Arts are exercises and patterns of qi which bring about certain effects. Once created and refined, they may be copied by the less talented or powerful to shape the world according to the method of the arts creator. This is accomplished by expelling qi through the shaped channels carved by your efforts through the morass of corruption which separates the soul from the physical world. The exact shape of the channel and numerous other factors determine the effect., but also limit the number of patterns a cultivator is capable of making use of," Elder Heng continued. "Over time, carving new channels becomes nearly impossible, while the complexity of the patterns needed for powerful arts continues to rise."

Ling Qi had worried over this quite a bit, as she grew better at puzzling out the requirements for her arts.

"However, the patterns used in arts are just that, structures designed to create an effect. In the third realm, a cultivator has the potency of spirit to shape these flows more directly, and personalize them for greater efficiency. In the end, no pattern made by another will match one cultivated and tailored to oneself in that regard. The focus of my lectures then, will be in giving you the tools to do so for yourselves, going forward," he raised one hand, ina gesture for them to pause. "However. It is unwise to attempt to reshape your meridians before the Threshold Stage of Green Soul. Until you reach this level, do not attempt direct manipulation of meridians. Until that time, satisfy yourself with simply making your arts more efficient."

Unless there's another mention somewhere else, this is the information we got on Art creation.
Edit: well, excluding the fact we almost created an art as a side effect when we were writing the song for our challenge against punk girl.
Edit 2: also how with the assistance of the Moon we made an art for ourselves. It seems @yrsillar has been bulding up to this for a while now.
 
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Alright. so I don't think I'm going to be able to finish this today. On the plus side, this should be a longer one since I'm already 2k words in and there's a fair bit more to go, but yeah, gonna have to push this back to tomorrow.
 
I think you bring up some pretty good points, but I'm not nearly as worried about Zhengui.

I agree that the arts we do have, and are building up towards, don't have much thematic connection to Zhengui. I agree that Ling Qi should spend more time with Zhengui developing him, not in the arts he has but in who he is as Zhengui. I also agree that formulating our advanced fortitude skill as something like endurance (referencing Ling Qi's consistently never giving up and always pushing to the end) and connecting it to Zhengui's own ability to endure and stick it out in tough situations.

However, I've noticed a couple of things that haven't been discussed all that much in regards to Zhengui and Ling Qi, which is how Ling Qi's domain (and more specifically the insights) have some nice synergy and, I think, should be explored. The specific insight I'm talking about is "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings."

I see this as being very thematically connected with Zhengui's own nature as a spirit beast of growth and destruction and that inherent cycle that brings. We have growth which is destroyed, only to feed more growth and we endings which feed into beginnings, only to eventually end as well. Both Ling Qi's insight and Zhengui's nature inherently revolve around the idea that from the old comes the new. I feel that this is a very strong connection between Ling Qi and Zhengui that should be explored in much more depth in the story. I would love a whole narrative arc centered around Zhengui and Ling Qi really focusing in on what it means to be Zhengui as a spirit beast of growth and destruction, and Ling Qi using her own insight into such a similar cycle of endings and beginnings to help Zhengui develop himself more.

And that is not the only thematic connection I see between Ling Qi and Zhengui in Ling Qi's domain. There is also this insight from SCS "There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end." While I think that this insight has weaker thematic connections to Zhengui, it does reflect Zhengui's own inherent nature of growth and destruction. There is always something being destroyed or growing in Zhengui's cycle, and growth/destruction is inherently something changing. And if it's changing, it's not becoming stagnant. While not as strong as the before mentioned insight, it should be useful enough for Ling Qi to help Zhengui understand even more about his nature.

Additionally, as I've mentioned earlier, I would love to see our Fortitude skill morph into something like Endurance. Rather than focus on the immovable aspects of TRF's armor, focus more on the longevity and staying power that it represents. Similar to Zhengui's own ability to keep gathering qi and keep healing and keep staying on the battlefield. Heck, even his self-destruct technique focuses in on him staying on the battlefield long past the time he should have left, by healing him to full and affecting the battlefield in one last time. (Although, now that I'm looking that ability seems to have been removed. Hopefully, it's just an error and Zhengui didn't forget about it).

While I do think that Xuan Shi and Xiulan can be helpful in Zhengui's abilities, ultimately they will not be helpful for him in trying to understand exactly what he is. He is unique in that there are other Xuanwu, but no other Xuanwu like him. In fact, I think this uniqueness would be a natural way to transition Zhengui's narrative from just being bratty to being bratty because he doesn't understand who he is and his place in the world. Other people like Wolf-girl want to see him or have him be financially profitable (like Bao Qian) but no one has answers to why he is the way he is and where he belongs. Ling Qi, I feel, is in a position to help this most crucial part of Zhengui growing up. Using her own insights into endings/beginnings and change/growth, Ling Qi can help Zhengui develop who Zhengui is, and not what's most beneficial to Ling Qi.

But now that I mention it, I see a lot of narrative potential between Zhengui and Ling Qi in their personal stories. Both are outsiders to their respective groups (Zhengui is completely different from other Xuanwu and Ling Qi will always be the commoner entering the nobility.) And I think that there is something beautiful to be explored in that connection. Of always knowing that you'll never be fully accepted into your group, but having someone always beside you who also won't be accepted into their group. A story of two odd ducklings struggling and succeeding in the harsh world together.

So while I agree with pretty much all of the points you brought up, I'm optimistic because I see a lot of potential between Ling Qi and Zhengui that simply hasn't been developed yet.
One small quibble. Basically 100% of our understanding of Zhengui's nature as an entity of growth and destruction sources to Xuan Shi declaring it. Past that, it's never really been explored. As far as is apparent, Xuan Shi's perfectly capable of collaborating on the subject of Zhengui's nature, and arguably more rooted on its understanding than even Ling Qi is. She's never demonstrated deep comprehension, and kiddo's themes haven't been poked or prodded in the story as of yet.
 
One small quibble. Basically 100% of our understanding of Zhengui's nature as an entity of growth and destruction sources to Xuan Shi declaring it. Past that, it's never really been explored. As far as is apparent, Xuan Shi's perfectly capable of collaborating on the subject of Zhengui's nature, and arguably more rooted on its understanding than even Ling Qi is. She's never demonstrated deep comprehension, and kiddo's themes haven't been poked or prodded in the story as of yet.
As I'm reading it, your quibble is that Ling Qi hasn't explored Zhengui's nature as an entity of growth and destruction and since basically 100% of our knowledge on Zhengui's nature comes from Xuan Shi's statements he is perfectly capable of collaborating on the subject of Zhengui's nature.

Which is A) factually incorrect and B) nonsense.

We have Xuan Shi's one statement, here:
Xuan Shi's eyebrows rose as he studied the little spirit, leaning closer as he did so. Zhen flicked his tongue at the boy in response, ash leaking from the sides of his mouth. "My senses were not fooled," the boy mused. "Destruction and growth, you are a unique one, little brother."
that he sensed growth and destruction in Zhengui, and that's basically it. And, in case you forgot, here is some other people discussing Zhengui's nature.

"I don't know," she replied evasively. "I think getting to know one another better might help?" She felt a little flustered if she was being honest with herself.

He looked her over, brows furrowed in thought. "Your spirit beast is fire natured, is he not? I can feel his qi clinging to you yet."

"Partially," Ling Qi replied, feeling a little more on balance. "Zhengui is fire and wood," she paused thinking. "I… suspect, he is aligned with the concepts of cyclic growth and destruction," her reading had introduced her to the fact that stronger beasts aligned with certain ways, as Xin had hinted cultivators must.

"Interesting," Gu Tai said, resting his chin on his hands. "Let me offer this then. My own spirit has a somewhat similar theme, would it be acceptable for me to join you in your lessons, I might have some useful advice in how to develop his abilities."
and
Xiulan's cousin did, as it turned out, have a fair amount of advice to offer, or rather, his spirit did. Yuzhao was a creature of Sun and Death, unique to the eastern deserts and descended from the now extinct phoenixes that once resided there… or so she had bragged. The point was, she had a fair amount of insight to offer Zhengui on mixing his two conflicting natures of growth and destruction.

Gu Tai was more helpful to Zhen, given his experience with fire arts, and she was glad to see his aim and control of his venom improving significantly with a few little tweaks. Ling Qi was not exactly certain about how she felt about the power Zhengui unlocked with Yuzhaos help though. She hoped he was never in a position to need to use it in combat… but she was practical enough to be glad he had it, as a final resort.

Xuan Shi made no mention of Zhengui's cyclical nature, that is something Ling Qi figured out herself. Furthermore, Gu Tai helped with his spirit in giving some insights to Zhengui's conflicting nature. So, Xuan Shi's impact on Ling Qi's understanding of Zhengui's nature is at best 33% and that's only if Ling Qi hadn't already figured it out. She doesn't act surprised at the revelation or even thank Xuan Shi for the information. Which indicates that someone already talked to her about it, someone like Meizhen who was the first cultivator outside of Ling Qi to see Zhengui, or Ling Qi already figured it out.

Also, simply because someone has more information about Xuanwu doesn't make them any better at understanding Zhengui's nature. They would be better at having insights into how other Xuanwu act and how Zhengui might be able to copy or crib off of that, but that's as far as it goes. They would have no special insights into Zhengui's nature unless they practiced arts that exhibit some of Zhengui's traits or have domains that grant them insights into Zhengui's own nature.
 
As I'm reading it, your quibble is that Ling Qi hasn't explored Zhengui's nature as an entity of growth and destruction and since basically 100% of our knowledge on Zhengui's nature comes from Xuan Shi's statements he is perfectly capable of collaborating on the subject of Zhengui's nature.

Which is A) factually incorrect and B) nonsense.

We have Xuan Shi's one statement, here:

that he sensed growth and destruction in Zhengui, and that's basically it. And, in case you forgot, here is some other people discussing Zhengui's nature.


and


Xuan Shi made no mention of Zhengui's cyclical nature, that is something Ling Qi figured out herself. Furthermore, Gu Tai helped with his spirit in giving some insights to Zhengui's conflicting nature. So, Xuan Shi's impact on Ling Qi's understanding of Zhengui's nature is at best 33% and that's only if Ling Qi hadn't already figured it out. She doesn't act surprised at the revelation or even thank Xuan Shi for the information. Which indicates that someone already talked to her about it, someone like Meizhen who was the first cultivator outside of Ling Qi to see Zhengui, or Ling Qi already figured it out.

Also, simply because someone has more information about Xuanwu doesn't make them any better at understanding Zhengui's nature. They would be better at having insights into how other Xuanwu act and how Zhengui might be able to copy or crib off of that, but that's as far as it goes. They would have no special insights into Zhengui's nature unless they practiced arts that exhibit some of Zhengui's traits or have domains that grant them insights into Zhengui's own nature.
It was a dig at Xuan Shi being the only one to demonstrate insight into Zhengui's nature.

I'll grant that the bird slipped my mind, but Ling Qi's introduction of the cyclic nature is pretty much the most basic inference from Xuan Shi's framing. To the point I consider it implied by him from the start. Especially with her uncertainty, it reads like her parroting his insights, not real understanding of her own.

The fact that Xuan Shi's observations by all appearances rival or eclipse Ling Qi's comprehension is in fact core to my concerns.
 
It was a dig at Xuan Shi being the only one to demonstrate insight into Zhengui's nature.

I'll grant that the bird slipped my mind, but Ling Qi's introduction of the cyclic nature is pretty much the most basic inference from Xuan Shi's framing. To the point I consider it implied by him from the start. Especially with her uncertainty, it reads like her parroting his insights, not real understanding of her own.

The fact that Xuan Shi's observations by all appearances rival or eclipse Ling Qi's comprehension is in fact core to my concerns.
I guess you can say that Ling Qi is parroting Xuan Shi even though he wasn't referenced in that line of thought and the actual source which gave her the idea was. It's not what I would do though.

But we clearly have different opinions on the matter and I'm not going to try and allay your concerns. I'm not even sure you want someone to allay your concerns. Ultimately, I believe that there are sufficient narrative ways for Ling Qi to explore Zhengui's nature and deepen both of their understandings regarding said nature without the need to involve someone else. I can't change the past interactions Ling Qi has had with Zhengui, but I can look forward and be optimistic about the possible future.
 
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