Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I was going pretty hard RME for a while there, but CDP's passives are swaying me even though I don't like the techs as much.

Like, do I want a slightly higher chance of detecting an ambush maybe, or take +10 Combat Perc, Init, and Phys avoid into that ambush.

I'm going towards the second.
Counter-ambush/stealth is actually an interesting point of contention between the two since outright attacks-from-ambush remain a very dangerous thing in-setting because Unready means we wouldn't even get to use Response techs. We have decent health to tank such a hit but it's pretty painful.

Now, if we're generally keeping some of the perception active then clairvoyance should be harder to get the drop on, since the area awareness themes means it's plain harder to sneak by us, and in a fight it just gives us a higher threshold others would need to pass to achieve stealth against us.

On the other hand, precognition themes mean that if something does get the drop on us then actually we'll have seen them coming with a second or two of advance warning, potentially giving us a surprise-negator. Getting the drop on a precog should be pretty hard without exotic future-sight obfuscation (which we know exists but who would be carrying it at Green).
 
A thing about precog and clairvoyance is that they are active techs. It might sound trivial but for them to see something, we have to use them.

Using the short term precog we get to search for ambushes, we would need to refresh the tech every few seconds and it is just impractical and too expensive for that.

So we likely wont see an ambush coming with the precog unless we have something else that warns us to use it.

There are good arguments for the precog route, but better forewarning against ambushes isnt one
 
For me, the problem with clairvoyance is the sheer amount of effort and paranoia it takes to make it work at its best (extra work for yrs too); we'll have to learn to constantly be aware and keep track of a myriad of people and places, which works well if we were a mastermind sitting in our cave and monitoring our domain, but with our propensity to stumble into adventure and run headlong into the unknown, support-focused perception isn't as good as it could be.
This notion is what keeps bothering me. Why should precog be any different? It isn't something that just happens, no more than clairvoyance is something that just happens anyway, it's something that you do. They both are. This supposedly necessary paranoia gap is an unfair construction.

Also, Ling Qi picks and chooses the adventures she stumbles into the majority of the time and the clairvoyance art doesn't require any elaborate mechanisms or anything. It's perfectly usable on the fly, all the more so when she's the one approaching the unknown. None of the reasoning you're articulating seems to actually support your conclusions.

Counter-ambush/stealth is actually an interesting point of contention between the two since outright attacks-from-ambush remain a very dangerous thing in-setting because Unready means we wouldn't even get to use Response techs. We have decent health to tank such a hit but it's pretty painful.

Now, if we're generally keeping some of the perception active then clairvoyance should be harder to get the drop on, since the area awareness themes means it's plain harder to sneak by us, and in a fight it just gives us a higher threshold others would need to pass to achieve stealth against us.

On the other hand, precognition themes mean that if something does get the drop on us then actually we'll have seen them coming with a second or two of advance warning, potentially giving us a surprise-negator. Getting the drop on a precog should be pretty hard without exotic future-sight obfuscation (which we know exists but who would be carrying it at Green).
That's an unfair framing. Or rather, you're using "get the drop on us" ambiguously. It's not a binary. Them managing to sneak into engagement range is different from them doing so while maintaining perfect stealth from which to launch an attack against an Unready us. Both are possibilities while we're using a Precog art. They're also both possibilities basically with any kind of stealth/perception matchup.

A thing about precog and clairvoyance is that they are active techs. It might sound trivial but for them to see something, we have to use them.

Using the short term precog we get to search for ambushes, we would need to refresh the tech every few seconds and it is just impractical and too expensive for that.

So we likely wont see an ambush coming with the precog unless we have something else that warns us to use it.

There are good arguments for the precog route, but better forewarning against ambushes isnt one
I don't completely agree with this because the higher combat perception passive should translate to a stronger baseline final threshold vs ambushes, but I do agree with the broad principle that people are overstating the effectiveness of precog by seemingly taking for granted that it's always 'on', which is unlikely to be the case.
 
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Precog does not need to be always on to be more useful that clairvoyance (which also won't be always on).
Much of precognitions effectiveness is in how vague/specific you can be.
Can you do a general fortune telling about the coming day?
Try to divine how a journey to specific place will go?
Ask if i should eat this donut? (the answer is yes)
 
This notion is what keeps bothering me. Why should precog be any different? It isn't something that just happens, no more than clairvoyance is something that just happens anyway, it's something that you do. They both are. This supposedly necessary paranoia gap is an unfair construction.

Also, Ling Qi picks and chooses the adventures she stumbles into the majority of the time and the clairvoyance art doesn't require any elaborate mechanisms or anything. It's perfectly usable on the fly, all the more so when she's the one approaching the unknown. None of the reasoning you're articulating seems to actually support your conclusions.
So a few things:
  • The currently usable part of clairvoyance is longer-range wisps which we can use to scout ahead at a reasonable range, something a bit more useful than the skeleton mice we used all of what, once or twice? Otherwise they offer a bit better cover in battle (though they're still 3 wisps).
  • For mirror-surface scrying to be useful it'll need to lose the requirement for familiarity, otherwise it's just a very niche ability compared to what we're usually doing.
  • In the early level we can see, neither clairvoyance nor precog actually afford passive or significant effects in alignment with their themes. Assuming they do get those at some point:
    • Yes, area-perception themes give us more info about what's around us and when going into new situations, but it would in fact be more effort for us and yrs to keep track of, especially if we strive to keep it active.
    • Utility-precognition in the style of weather forecasting would have a similar +info +effort mapping, but useful in different contexts. However, I don't think it's a likely early direction since CDP is supposed to be less utility focused.
    • Passive/upkeep (or just any available precog-themed effect) short-range precognition on the other hand doesn't actually require paying attention to new info to keep track of on our or yrs' part, which means less info going into weird situations compared to RME-style situational awareness, but would leave us much better prepared to react and respond.
That's an unfair framing. Or rather, you're using "get the drop on us" ambiguously. It's not a binary. Them managing to sneak into engagement range is different from them doing so while maintaining perfect stealth from which to launch an attack against an Unready us. Both are possibilities while we're using a Precog art. They're also both possibilities basically with any kind of stealth/perception matchup.

I don't completely agree with this because the higher combat perception passive should translate to a stronger baseline final threshold vs ambushes, but I do agree with the broad principle that people are overstating the effectiveness of precog by seemingly taking for granted that it's always 'on', which is unlikely to be the case.
You're correct, I'm mangling two situations here so let me make them distinct:
  • We are Unready and something's trying to sneak up on us:
    • RME, presumably we have good area awareness.
      • If we keep something up passively/as upkeep, then we have a pretty decent threshold for a potential ambusher to cross. Especially if we get to play the +30 from EPC.
      • If we don't have anything up passively then CDP would be slightly better since it's got a higher passive.
    • CDP, depends on if we have precog-based surprise negation:
      • If we do then while our "passive" perception is easier to foil, someone actually trying to sneak-attack would trip it and have their surprise foiled.
      • If we don't then CDP offers no particular advantage besides slightly better passives.
  • We are In Combat against someone Sneaky:
    • RME: presumably area awareness means it's hard to distract us, but otherwise it's just a perception art. Better at tracking someone trying to escape probably.
    • CDP: explicitly noted to be 1v1 perception focused, and with active use precognition themes it should be very good for anti-stealth if the target isn't trying to run away.
 
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I think the big problem with the precog is everyone seems to be envisioning Jedi when its mechanically more consuming atium in mistborn. If we get a sustain or upkeep precog ability its like jedi but that is far off.
 
I'm frankly not sure why people are discussing ambush prevention and the like when it comes to these two arts. That's not what they're for.

Clairvoyance is for wanting to know our surroundings.
Examples: We enter a ruined Temple courtyard and want to find a lever/switch/miscellaneous object. Pop your clairvoyance and canvas the room in seconds, no need to move and risk traps activating.
We enter combat, need to know where everyone is. Pop Clairvoyance and gain a view of the battle field.
We enter the bathhouse and want to see Gan Gua-

CDP is for finding out how something will go.
Example: We enter combat with Discount Bai, have the set up for our one hit kill ready but don't know his defenses or what our chances of hitting and killing him actually are. So we pop CDP find out the odds and make an informed decision, we gamble with the odds.
We're at a banquet, the food is nice but our Goblet might be filled with a fast acting acid. Pop CDP to check.
We're standing in front of Gan Guangli's chiseled torso with a box of chocolates behind our back. It's time to confess our admiration, so we pop CDP and-



As is made clear, neither of these arts are surprise negators, nor passives. They are, I need to know X right now, arts.


Though, to be clear, precog is strictly superior as a passive surprise negator. Clairvoyance gives you a new angle to notice people from, while they are in ambush.
Precog means you have another chance to notice them when they break ambush, before they break ambush.
With precog they need to specifically plan around your perception or they're just fucked. With clairvoyance (until you get to something like high level pericognition that reads the world molecule by molecular instead of by the medium of your senses) a well chosen ambush spot with cover does most of the work.
 
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This may be heretical, but how urgent is training a CDE successor and do we have the AP for it?

I would think that, at least in the short term, dipping a bit into two or three social arts will increase our options and overall capability much more, and I currently do not feel the need for a new and better perception art right now.

OTOH we might want the fully trained CDE successor ready for the tournament.
 
This may be heretical, but how urgent is training a CDE successor and do we have the AP for it?

We're probably going to only dabble in the social Arts for another while, at least until we've gotten a good way into our Foundation level combat Arts and maybe even after the tournament. We can't really plan that far ahead considering our new cultivation Art, not yet found pills and economic situation. If we find we have some mixture of predicted spare AP, some specialized pills to reduce the AP investment or simply decide that working on this batch of Arts is more beneficial than finishing one of the Combat Arts etc... Many are saying we should get up to four of this batch of Arts and all would be useful in the tournament either in and out of the fighting. Anything goes but I wouldn't think CDE is a priority for at least another half dozen months.
 
OTOH we might want the fully trained CDE successor ready for the tournament.
This was mentioned in the discord, we should probably stop referring to the intersect competition as a "tournament". We don't know the format and tournament gives a specific impression. For all we know it will be like that scouting exercise we just went on. Or a talent show.

edit: what sort of info gathering would be required to find out this info?
 
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This was mentioned in the discord, we should probably stop referring to the intersect competition as a "tournament". We don't know the format and tournament gives a specific impression. For all we know it will be like that scouting exercise we just went on. Or a talent show.

Organisers: For the next event...you must do your best to forget about the competitors from earlier events who are no longer as stronger as you but were major threats at the time and hold significant grudges against you

LQ: I have been training my whole life for this.
 
CDE+ decision is relevant because if we shave off an AP from AG (much more likely now that BN spent 5 omake points on it), we have 4 free AP to work with next turn instead of 3. Given the rough plans right now seem to be trending 2 AP meridian openings + social art of choice, it would be really, really nifty to use that new shiny free AP to train a Water or Lake art to trigger mirror basin on all that social skill training we'll be doing off the social art's keywords. CDE+ has the advantage that we would be able to benefit right away, having just cleared more head meridians, compared to SNR and UGM (both of which also have a low chance of completing their first level in 1 AP), who would need meridians opened the following turn to get any benefit out of them.
 
Serenity: Sunset
Annnd the next chapter of my omake is ready! Part one is here, part two is here and part three is here. Hope you guys like it. ^_^

Serenity: Sunset

The blinding daylight shone through the cracks of grey-blue clouds. The contrast between the sunlight and every wisp of cloud was striking. The heavy rain clouds migrated slowly east, taking their grey rain with them and letting the afternoon sun shine down gloriously on the lake. A magnificent reflection of that sun shimmered. On the horizon line, where water and sky met, the yellow-gold sunshine blended together to present one blinding force...and--

Wait, Chen Mei thought. The shape of this blinding force did not look right to her. What did that shape look like, when she beheld the glorious view on the shores of Lake Hei? She closed her eyes and thought back to her time meditating on that shore. While she was absorbing the Lake and Solar qi, Chen Mei had noted how the sun melded with its own beautiful reflection...but the horizon line did not disappear completely. There was a slight demarcation, marking where the lake met the sky.

Chen Mei opened her eyes and regarded her work. The horizon line did not truly act like a divider, she thought--it simply marked two halves of one whole. She leaned forward and carefully recreated that faint line with her paintbrush, while channeling both Lake and Solar qi through the paintbrush.

Chen Mei stood back and considered the painting. The Lake qi was alive on the lower half of the canvas, shimmering and mingling with the small amounts of Solar qi she had added. She eyed the upper half of the canvas, where the rain clouds were still traveling east. She had packed the clouds with Water qi, in shades of slate grey with hints of violet. In the center was the sun, blinding in its magnificence. It dominated the canvas, just as she has intended. The sunrays pierced the rain clouds, driving them off--but more importantly, every sunbeam practically leapt off the canvas and enraptured anyone who viewed the painting. Chen Mei had poured incredible amounts of Solar qi into the work in order to recreate the scene from her memory. The sun was just beginning to set and the faintest colors of sunset--pinkish red fading into ochre and then bright yellow--hovered near the horizon line.

Yes, thought Chen Mei. This will be an acceptable beginning to the commissioned three-part series. She expected the Bai would be very pleased. The formations hidden in the sun were undetectable and yet they would work with the Solar qi to keep viewers spellbound. Only cultivators equal to or greater than her in power would be able to dispel the illusion--and even then, they would likely spend a fair amount of qi in the attempt.

The second part of the series would be the Sun setting in earnest. Chen Mei looked at her palette and brushes. Without a doubt, she would be needing more supplies. The oil gleaned from the silver devil fish made for wonderful oil paints. It was a potent resource that absorbed and complimented her own qi nicely. She was quite satisfied with the way it interacted with her third-grade beast skin canvases. Though it was all quite expensive, there was nothing to be done about that. She began washing her paintbrushes, carefully removing the paint from the bristles. Unicorn hair made for fine bristles when treated with the right substances, she mused. Perhaps she should try the other options, though she wasn't sure it was--

There was a knock on the studio door.

"Lady Chen? I beg your pardon but your afternoon appointment begins soon. The guests have arrived."

"Yes, I know." She called out.

Chen Mei quickly washed her hands, using the special soap made from the essence of water elementals. Nothing less would remove the custom-made paint from her skin. She slipped out of her work clothes and considered the choices from her wardrobe. After a moment of thought, she pulled on some golden-red brocade robes. She pinned up her dark locks in a bun, using one of her more simple golden hair clips. Chen Mei regarded her reflection and decided no rouge was necessary for her face. The impact her Cyan-level cultivation had on her appearance was enough. As she progressed towards Indigo, the Solar qi circulating in her body had become more apparent. It gave her fair skin a golden glow. The golden patterns on her robes complimented that glow. She straightened the robes that accentuated her voluptuous frame and headed out of her studio.

Chen Mei walked briskly through the gilded, marble halls of her home. She passed the various paintings decorating the halls--masterful paintings, with qi formations that would enchant almost any viewer--without glancing at them. One grew used to the presence of the artwork in their own home--especially cultivators of higher skill. Besides, many of the paintings were Chen Mei's own work. Thus, it did not have the same captivating effect.

She made her way down the grand staircase and headed for the foyer in the east wing. There, standing between her subordinates Heng Xun and Qiu Min, were two mortals looking quite overwhelmed. The man was fearful while the little girl simply seemed overawed. He held the girl's hand tightly in his own. When he saw Chen Mei, his eyes widened and he bowed low. The child stared at her, awestruck. Her father's hand came up to pull her into a bow as well. Chen Mei stepped forward and saw the girl peeking up at her, despite her father's efforts to keep her head lowered.

"Welcome to my home. I am Lady Chen Mei of the Chen clan. Please, rise." She stepped forward, studying the child. She was dressed in a mortal's excuse for formal wear. It had been some time since Chen Mei had a reason to pay attention to any mortal. She had forgotten how drab and irrelevant mortals seemed since it had been ages since she last paid attention to one.

She supposed that dwelling on how unremarkable this child seemed would be foolish. After all, it was mainly her abilities that were of interest to Chen Mei. She looked at Qiu Min questioningly. He nodded and slipped out the door. He came back leading some servants in, who carried a shoddy folding screen. It was the divider Chao Bo had described in his report, the one with the child's artwork on it.

The servants set it in front of the group. Chen Mei stepped forward and studied the paintings. The amount of detail and skill for mortal artwork was...incredible. Especially for one so young. The movement of the people in the crowded market...The perfect rendering of the Sun temple's architecture...and the city's horizon line backlit by a beautiful setting sun. Chen Mei eyed the girl. "Lai Meixiu," she said.

The young girl startled. She has seemed transfixed by Chen Mei. It was, Chen Mei mused, understandable for a mortal child who had never before seen a cultivator. "Y-yes, Lady Chen."

"Come here."

The child obeyed. Her eyes grew wider as she drew closer. "You're a v-very pretty lady." Chen Mei laughed. "Well, thank you."

"Are you special like Qiu Min? That's why you're all...glowy?" She asked, pointing to Chen Mei's hands and face.

"Yes. Yes, I too am special," Chen Mei said, smiling in amusement. "I want to talk about your artwork." She indicated the paintings on the folding screen. "It's very advanced for a mortal child, especially one without artistic education."

Lai Meixiu shook her head. "It's nothing compared to the stuff here." She looked around at the paintings on the foyer's walls. It's all so beautiful." The child looked both amazed and a little overwhelmed. Chen Mei guessed that the allure each painting had, enhanced by hidden formations designed to keep viewers spellbound, was probably pulling the child's attention in different directions. An expected effect if the viewer was a mere mortal. This mansion was not meant for mortals. Actually, Chen Mei guessed that only Green or maybe Yellow realm cultivators would be able to behold each painting in this foyer without getting drawn in by illusory effects.

She took the child by the hand. "Lai Meixiu, I want to show you something. Come with me." She led the girl down the foyer, to the grand staircase. Chen Mei did not bother looking back. She knew that Qiu Min and Heng Xun would know to entertain the father. A mortal would not have the privilege of seeing what Chen Mei was about to show to Lai Meixiu. Only important guests, family members or those who would become family could ever see it. She led the child up the staircase slowly and patiently. Lai Meixiu looked around in amazement, drinking in every detail of the mansion. As they reached the second floor, Lai Meixiu slowed down, staring at every painting. Chen Mei realized that the paintings on this floor must be having more powerful effects on the girl. They were created by more powerful cultivators of the Chen family.

Chen Mei activated her Searing Mantle Art and extended it to include the child. It flowed around the girl, enveloping her in a warm, translucent cocoon of qi that shielded her from external effects. Lai Meixiu's attention broke away from a picture of the Alabaster shores at dusk. She looked at her hands. "I feel all warm and tingly."

Chen Mei smiled down at the child. "Yes. I will explain that later. I promise, you can look at these paintings at another time. I know, they are all very beautiful but there is something I wish to show you now." Lai Meixiu would now see them for what they were in the physical sense--just skillful, lovely paintings decorating the walls. Her spirit was shielded from the lively qi and hidden formations within the artwork.

"I-I get to see them later? You just said you promised," the girl said, looking astounded. "I get to come back?"

Chen Mei's smile grew wider. "Yes. I promise."

She inclined her head toward the next staircase. Lai Meixiu nodded enthusiastically.

They ascended to the third floor, the fourth floor and then the fifth floor, where they entered a smaller hallway. She opened the door at the end of the hall. Lai Meixiu followed but then stopped in the doorway, frozen.

She stared ahead, in shock and awe. Eventually the child was able to speak in a small whisper.

"It's incredible."
 
Lena27, I just have to say I love this Omake series you are making. I think its my favorite side story of all the ones in this thread and the previous.
 
We're probably going to only dabble in the social Arts for another while, at least until we've gotten a good way into our Foundation level combat Arts and maybe even after the tournament. We can't really plan that far ahead considering our new cultivation Art, not yet found pills and economic situation. If we find we have some mixture of predicted spare AP, some specialized pills to reduce the AP investment or simply decide that working on this batch of Arts is more beneficial than finishing one of the Combat Arts etc... Many are saying we should get up to four of this batch of Arts and all would be useful in the tournament either in and out of the fighting. Anything goes but I wouldn't think CDE is a priority for at least another half dozen months.
Strictly speaking there's no particular build reason for an immediate push for a CDE+ variant.

Practically however, next turn we're looking at 1 free AP when we're training a lot of social skills (SSC and a social art put a lot of keywords up for training), of which a lot are within spitting distance of softcap. This is incentive enough to put a Water or Lake art AP in there, which means a CDE+ variant, SNR, or UGM. Of these only CDE would be immediately usable without needing new meridians.

The other consideration is that "which direction of CDE+ are we taking" is a vote that will have to happen anyway, and it's better to do that with the analysis and arguments we're seeing now still fresh in memory.
 
From Yrsillar in the discord regarding the wisps in CDE "I am operating off the assumption that wisps use ling qi's base stealth "

So the wisps aren't extremely visible and can be used as part of a stealth infiltration.
 
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