The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone

[swift1212]

[X] Write-in Counteroffer: The Republic agrees to coordinate destabilizing efforts in the Mandate with the Capellan Confederation, on the condition that both polities will be permitted to engage in their own messaging wherever they have influence, and some at least lip service will be given to Republic messaging. In places where one side or the other has significantly more influence, the messaging will be coordinated. The Republic will also press for planets that are broken from the Mandate to be permitted a plebiscite to choose reintegration with the CapCon, but will not consider it a dealbreaker if that is refused.

[X] Plan The Conference Call Preluding To War

 

[Thule]

So the Andurien Secession gonna happen or have we change things to much for it to happen?

 

[zezia]

[X] Write-in Counteroffer: The Republic agrees to coordinate destabilizing efforts in the Mandate with the Capellan Confederation, on the condition that both polities will be permitted to engage in their own messaging wherever they have influence, and some at least lip service will be given to Republic messaging. In places where one side or the other has significantly more influence, the messaging will be coordinated. The Republic will also press for planets that are broken from the Mandate to be permitted a plebiscite to choose reintegration with the CapCon, but will not consider it a dealbreaker if that is refused.

[X] Plan The Conference Call Preluding To War

 

[Kelenas]

--[X] To Be Determined

Click to shrink...

Since it was pointed out that we actually *don't* have a 100kt passenger-dropship (at least not officially), maybe introduce something like that to make future colonization, evacuation, etc efforts easier?
Maybe even multiple variants of the same design, if that sort of thing is allowed; one variants optimized for passenger-capacity at the cost of comfort (sleeping pods, communal facilities, etc) for cheap mass transit, one with a bit more comfort but still easily affordable to the average person (small but individual quarters, etc), one with a fair bit of comfort for wealthier clients (large individual rooms, a number of entertainment-facilities, etc), and one that's basically a flying luxury resort for the super-rich who just have way too much money that they'd like to throw away, with stuff like on-board swimming pools, saunas, and all that sort of crap.

 

[Forgothrax]

Since it was pointed out that we actually *don't* have a 100kt passenger-dropship (at least not officially), maybe introduce something like that to make future colonization, evacuation, etc efforts easier?
Maybe even multiple variants of the same design, if that sort of thing is allowed; one variants optimized for passenger-capacity at the cost of comfort (sleeping pods, communal facilities, etc) for cheap mass transit, one with a bit more comfort but still easily affordable to the average person (small but individual quarters, etc), one with a fair bit of comfort for wealthier clients (large individual rooms, a number of entertainment-facilities, etc), and one that's basically a flying luxury resort for the super-rich who just have way too much money that they'd like to throw away, with stuff like on-board swimming pools, saunas, and all that sort of crap.

Click to shrink...

This is a good idea, yes.

I also had an idea: Small "spy" satellites, solar powered, blacked out and low-emissions to be hard to detect. Bands of them can be placed near jump points, ideally in uninhabited systems. Two per system (primary + backup) have Black Boxes. If someone KF-jumps into the system, the satellites record it and broadcast the jump to the nearest connection to the WCC system.

Might permit tracking of incoming enemy units.

 

[Kelenas]

This is a good idea, yes.

I also had an idea: Small "spy" satellites, solar powered, blacked out and low-emissions to be hard to detect. Bands of them can be placed near jump points, ideally in uninhabited systems. Two per system (primary + backup) have Black Boxes. If someone KF-jumps into the system, the satellites record it and broadcast the jump to the nearest connection to the WCC system.

Might permit tracking of incoming enemy units.

Click to shrink...

We'll probably want long-range sensors, to allow us to cover more systems with fewer satellites. With the scale of the project we're talking about (seeding hundreds, possibly thousands of star-systems with those satellites), reducing the number of satellites needed by even just 10 or 20 % would translate to massive savings in time and material.

Though of course there's the question whether the GM would allow that sort of thing in the first place.

 

[Karugus]

This is why i want to bring the entire ORDI into this. They need to know what our plan is for the mandate. It will also help balance out what ever the capellans have planed for the mandate (which is likely trying to reabsorb them).

But i do hold the position that the capellans can not be allowed to re absorb the mandate. It would make them to powerful and lead to imbalance in ORDI. And if they leave ORDI they just become another rival just like the other great houses. Don't get me wrong the capellans in there current state make for good allies but do not make the mistake to forget what they are. There a "former" great house if they see any opportunity to regain some of there former glory they will take it no matter who stands in there way. As the ultimate goal of all great houses is to re establish the star league with them at the top. It may not be in there generation but some day there family will rule.

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You are basically creating the circumstances of a war with the Capellan Confederation then, one wherein the Helghan Republic will be explicitly making it clear it doesn't respect the national sovereignty of it's Associate members... the Mandate was a reactionary breakaway state by conservative nobles opposing liberal and social reform in the CC. How fucking terrible does it look when we try and take a chainsaw to them to try and keep them from rejoining the nation they have a shared culture and history with? The Mandate didn't leave because people in it wanted to leave, they left because the elite with all the political power didn't want to give that up.

There's going to be an abundance of people who will want to rejoin. Trying to keep the Mandate fractured and out of CC's hands is all but planning for a civil war in the Mandate (at best) where nukes are in play and billions of lives are at stake. There's no way we come out of that looking good, and people need to bury this protagonist centered morality where if we Agitprop hard enough, everything is going to casually go our way and we aren't meddling in things.

As opposed to us just going along with whatever it is they want, which is the same thing in the opposite direction? I guess that's ideal from your perspective, where doing whatever the CapCon wants is the only right thing to do, but it isn't from mine. This isn't us demanding control of the operation, this is us negotiating that if they want access to our resources that we will have demands. They don't have to agree, but we also don't have to agree to subordinate ourselves. They obviously don't completely object to what we are doing or they wouldn't have helped us spread propaganda (which they did). I want to formalize the tack that we are going to take if we do go this route. That's going to be to activate rebellion from a true left wing point of view that is going to shape the CapCon in that direction.

Let's not forget that the CapCon did something very, very similar to this in the OTL. They used the Trinity Alliance to build up their military by swiping units from the MoC and the TC. I don't want ORDI to become an extension of the CapCon for political gain. They will be one of us among equals, not first, not only.

Having a spine =/= "cartoonish demands."

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No. Stop burning a strawman in effigy and actually realize partnership means partnership. Refusing to turn things into power plays does not equal appeasement. I'm saying we don't get to dictate what propaganda they put out and they don't get to dictate what propaganda we put out.

I want the Capellans to hitch their campaign to ours. I want them to syncretize their propaganda with ours by necessity. And then I want to bombard the mandate with an enormous propaganda campaign the Capellans are forced to match and play ball with. I want mass protests of radicalized people demanding referendums to rejoin the Capellan Confederation. And then I want the Capellans to deal with a bunch of politically active, pro-democracy liberal patriots with socialist sympathies. I hope to give the Capellans exactly what they're hoping to regain, laced with a poison pill to try and keep them honest and on the path of reform.

You seem to mistake a refusal to try and browbeat and express our contempt for the CC with every single breath as a refusal to hold them to account. I'm not saying we let them direct us, I'm saying demanding we direct their efforts is imperialistic bullshit and counter productive. Calving off parts of the Mandate is a fantasy that alienates the CC and ensures we never get the reforms and quality of life improvements for hundreds of billions that we want. But we have the opportunity now to intertwine the idea of those reforms with the Capellan nationalist movement. And unraveling that tangled skein is going to be a headache for Tormano, and added incentive to address those reformists movements before the ideas infect the rest of the CC.

The Mandate is not clay for us to balkanize and alienate the CC over. It's a petri dish with which we can incubate a massive reformist movement cloaked in liberal nationalism and inject the CC with while they thank us for the privilege. Idealism, and a desire to help and work with people does not mean naivety. I have no desire to let Tormano take point and shape the whole narrative, just as I'm sure he will refuse to let us do the same.

I just refuse to be self-righteous enough to assume we can casually browbeat Tormano and take what parts of the Mandate we'd like simply because we're the 'good guys'. We're not remotely the TA in this scenario. We're the ones with the resources and technology to modernize the CC, and as an associate member the CC explicitly doesn't get our protection or vice versa. Unlike the TA, ORDI existed before the CC got involved, and it can survive as a notable deterrent of any Successor State without the CC.

 

[Forgothrax]

No. Stop burning a strawman in effigy and actually realize partnership means partnership. Refusing to turn things into power plays does not equal appeasement. I'm saying we don't get to dictate what propaganda they put out and they don't get to dictate what propaganda we put out.

I want the Capellans to hitch their campaign to ours. I want them to syncretize their propaganda with ours by necessity. And then I want to bombard the mandate with an enormous propaganda campaign the Capellans are forced to match and play ball with. I want mass protests of radicalized people demanding referendums to rejoin the Capellan Confederation. And then I want the Capellans to deal with a bunch of politically active, pro-democracy liberal patriots with socialist sympathies. I hope to give the Capellans exactly what they're hoping to regain, laced with a poison pill to try and keep them honest and on the path of reform.

You seem to mistake a refusal to try and browbeat and express our contempt for the CC with every single breath as a refusal to hold them to account. I'm not saying we let them direct us, I'm saying demanding we direct their efforts is imperialistic bullshit and counter productive. Calving off parts of the Mandate is a fantasy that alienates the CC and ensures we never get the reforms and quality of life improvements for hundreds of billions that we want. But we have the opportunity now to intertwine the idea of those reforms with the Capellan nationalist movement. And unraveling that tangled skein is going to be a headache for Tormano, and added incentive to address those reformists movements before the ideas infect the rest of the CC.

The Mandate is not clay for us to balkanize and alienate the CC over. It's a petri dish with which we can incubate a massive reformist movement cloaked in liberal nationalism and inject the CC with while they thank us for the privilege. Idealism, and a desire to help and work with people does not mean naivety. I have no desire to let Tormano take point and shape the whole narrative, just as I'm sure he will refuse to let us do the same.

I just refuse to be self-righteous enough to assume we can casually browbeat Tormano and take what parts of the Mandate we'd like simply because we're the 'good guys'. We're not remotely the TA in this scenario. We're the ones with the resources and technology to modernize the CC, and as an associate member the CC explicitly doesn't get our protection or vice versa. Unlike the TA, ORDI existed before the CC got involved, and it can survive as a notable deterrent of any Successor State without the CC.

Click to shrink...

Bullshit.

I don't view the CC as a partner as much as I do the rest of ORDI, because the CC is a Successor State/Great House with all that entails, and a particularly nasty one in which people are viewed as property of the state at that. I will agree that Tormano is doing some things right to liberalize and remove the choking chains. However, I can also remember that Tormano Liao did things in the OTL that were all in the service of building his personal power, no matter what the surface reasoning for them was. He also aided and abetted Katherine Steiner-Davion, a megalomaniac who did a great deal of harm by destroying the FedCom in its Civil War. The rest of ORDI needs eachother to survive, and we've done a lot for the organization's members as a whole to keep all of us together. The core ORDI states are much wealthier than they otherwise would be, their people better taken care of, their militaries more capable of resisting outside aggression. Those are our real partners.

In my world, partnership between states means helping each other for a goal of mutual benefit. The Mandate is not a threat to us-- they can scheme against us, perhaps, but they don't have the resources or military force to pose a serious threat. Taking down the Mandate's government to return those worlds to the CC doesn't directly benefit us. It benefits us indirectly if we assume that the CC will then use that clay to help the rest of ORDI, but so far we've been the ones helping the CC much more than they have helped us. And I doubt that will change-- if it will take 40 AP to get the CapCon's manufacturing stood up, how much more will it take to build up the Mandate, which is an even poorer state? If the CapCon wants something from our partnership, they need to offer something in return. I don't want the Mandate broken up just to destroy an enemy, because I don't see them as a threat. I want the Mandate broken up because I want to help the people of the Mandate, and to expand the power of the core ORDI states by taking in former Mandate worlds and rebuilding them. So if the CC wants help, I want to offer that help on terms that are favorable to us as well as to them-- and that means that our propaganda blitz needs to have similar predominance to theirs, if not more so. Otherwise, we're doing them yet another free favor for no gain to ourselves.

Allow me to continue to be clear: The write-in action allows us to coordinate, and requires that when one side is in the other's sphere of influence, our propaganda is similar. I intend to follow that up by blitzing our sphere of influence everywhere we can reach, but preferably in the worlds closest to ORDI space. I want those worlds willing to either form their own free state, willing to join the ORDI states which are more free than the CapCon, or to join the CapCon as restive partisans against repression within the CapCon. As my write-in post said, if Tormano is actually a reformer like you think he is, he'll welcome something he can use as leverage ("oh woe is me, the former Mandate worlds are demanding things I want, now I can tell the conservatives that if they want the former mandate worlds we gotta lighten up the repression a bit!"

As far as the rest... we do have the whip hand over Tormano at the moment. We've destroyed their leverage by releasing the Core-- which was not my main impetus, but it serves the situation well. Tormano knows that if we want, we can cut off the industrial effort and leave him in our dust. I want that leverage, to use to leverage him into continuing reforms to stay in our good graces. I'm going to show the benefits of cooperation this turn by giving away freely the most valuable technology available, AKA the means to build FTL ships again, the ability to build WarShips, Petrusite knowledge, and a veritable smorgasbord of other technologies if he can understand that the means to prosperity is to play ball with the rest of us. If we're able to crush the Mandate's government, my first priority is going to be driving WCC trunk lines into the CapCon and encouraging the other members to help link all of the CapCon's worlds together in another network.

I want to help the people of the CapCon. But I'm not going to do that in a way that will let Tormano, or his successors, become first among ORDI equals. And I'm going to do it in a way that the Helghan Republic, and the rest of ORDI, gets some degree of direct return on investment that isn't trusting the fucking CapCon of all states to return the favor.

 

[Retired Explorer]

I agree with most of what you have said specially this:

I don't view the CC as a partner as much as I do the rest of ORDI, because the CC is a Successor State/Great House with all that entails,

Click to shrink...

Tormano might have rejected his claim to lordship over humanity and the CC might be acting as the meek and powerless but that is because they have been dismantled not out of some kind of relisation that they were wrong all along. They likely see themselves as superior to the periphery nations that form ORDI, after all, they are a Great House and we are "peripherats", that is without taking into account that even if the Mandate has absorved the most revanchist capellans there must still be some kind of bitterness because of how the last Succesion War ended for them. If we want to keep them as allies something has to change and we can not treat them as redeemed.

That said, I can't agree with this:

The Mandate is not a threat to us

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The Mandate is a reactionary rogue (and failed) state with nuclear warheads that attempted bio-terrorism in our capital city in the hopes of getting even more WMDs (this time with petrusite), their disregard of human life is frankly terrifying. Can they conquer us? Certainly not, their state would go beyond bankrupt in even attempting to calculate how costly an occupation would be but they can do a great deal of harm and I don't know if we have the tech to clean radiation (nor do I want to know the cost in AP of cleaning the aftermath of nuclear bombardment).

The Mandate is not an existential threat but it is a threat.

 

[Simon. Andersen]

Does the Republic agree to coordinate subversive actions against the Celestial Mandate?
[X] Yes

I want to help the people of the CapCon. But I'm not going to do that in a way that will let Tormano, or his successors, become first among ORDI equals. And I'm going to do it in a way that the Helghan Republic, and the rest of ORDI, gets some degree of direct return on investment that isn't trusting the fucking CapCon of all people to return the favor.

Click to shrink...

Than if you don't want the Capcon in the ORDI, than why not's make something like a UN for the great houses. The first members of couse would be Capcon, Celestial Mandate, Marian Hegemony and Fedsun.

Also an crazy idea. How about we free Celestial Empress Romano Liao (and her son) from those evil nobles, and than let her start a civil war to get back her throne. Of course we gonna help her, but with a prise.
Here some proposals what the prise could be.
1. Totale reforms for Celestial Mandate.
2. Demilitarized their army.
3. Some of their tech.
4. Be a counterweight againts Capcon.

 

[Voidseer]

[X] Forgothrax

 

[F0lkL0re]

[X] Write-in Counteroffer: The Republic agrees to coordinate destabilizing efforts in the Mandate with the Capellan Confederation, on the condition that both polities will be permitted to engage in their own messaging wherever they have influence, and some at least lip service will be given to Republic messaging. In places where one side or the other has significantly more influence, the messaging will be coordinated. The Republic will also press for planets that are broken from the Mandate to be permitted a plebiscite to choose reintegration with the CapCon, but will not consider it a dealbreaker if that is refused.

[X] Plan The Conference Call Preluding To War

 

[Mal-3]

Also an crazy idea. How about we free Celestial Empress Romano Liao (and her son) from those evil nobles, and than let her start a civil war to get back her throne. Of course we gonna help her, but with a prise.

Click to shrink...

Brother, I don't know if there are words in English, Russian, Chinese or any other tongue spoken in the Inner Sphere to express how bad a plan that is. Tormano Liao is an Inner Sphere warlord like pretty much all of them; he's smart enough to have figured out that his long-term chances of survival hinge on acting more like the Davions so his puppetmaster on New Avalon doesn't cut the strings, but that's about it.

Romano Liao, on the other claw, is genuinely out of her fucking tree. Canonically, she sets up a literal death cult[1] around herself and her daughter which they both end up using to attack their enemies. Romano was not stable, is not stable and quite frankly if the nobility really have deposed her and are using her as a stage prop it's the smartest move the Mandate's leadership has made to date. If Tormano's people are feeding the Republic this line the correct answer is "...and?" Or maybe "Oh no. Anyway."



[1] Doylistically, a cult that is a clear sign that somebody at FASA watched Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom way too many fucking times. It's pretty yikes, is what I'm saying.

 

[SuperHeavy]

Romano Liao, on the other claw, is genuinely out of her fucking tree.

Click to shrink...

To back this up I would sooner vote for a plan that has us saturation bombing Sian with nuclear warheads before putting Kali back on the throne. It would probably kill fewer people in the long run.

 

[Forgothrax]

Any plan that starts with "We return Romano Liao to power" is a bad one. Period.

 

[abominable]

Disco Knight
​

Lieutenant Shael Zoran emptied his mind as instincts honed by more than a year of training kicked in, the Mech's arms and legs moving fluidly at his command.

The sound of shattered trees, rustling leaves and broken stone filtered into the a small yet comfortable space as the Knight's external sensors sensed and interpreted vibrations and reconstituted it into simulated audio through the cockpit's speakers. All the while, the lieutenant's monitors painted a clear picture of the forest, it's canopy, and then the clear Portland skies as the Mech sailed through the skies longer and farther than what should have been possible. Once more the speakers blared, this time with the sound of ionized air as lasers flashed around him and the hiss and crack of physical ammunition echoed all around.

Deftly manipulating the finer controls slaving the gravity drives and jumpjets, the hundred-ton assault mech twisted mid-air and sighted its targets. Hidden behind a dense barrier of foliage, bark and smoke, Disco Elysium's sensor suite easily picked out the bulky, yet deceptively agile drones hovering just a few meters off the forest floor. Synchronizing perfectly with Pharaoh's new TAG-integrated targeting system, a press of Zoran's finger activated mechanisms buried within Elysium's torso. The whine and hum of the Petrusite cannon, this time real, penetrated into the cockpit for but the fraction of a second, before the weapon unleashed its payload.

Burning through air, smoke, tree, and armor, the bolt of lethal energy buried its way into the drone's internals, mingling with the delicate machinery and volatile materiel that should have been protected by the mech's outer shell. A symphony of muffled sparks, cracks and explosions sounded out as the drone's died from within, joining it's fellow drones amidst the pockmarked battlegrounds.

As gravity reclaimed its hold on Disco Elysium, Zoran instinctively sent his commands with but a few gestures from his fingers, Elysium's gravity control drives acquiescing and slowing the previously accelerating descent. With a nudge of his thrusters, the lieutenant guided his Hel Knight back down onto a clearing amongst the sea of trees, the Assault mech seeming to float down to solid ground.

No doubt preoccupied with the wealth of combat and technical data being transmitted from camera drones floating around, the unmanned drones he'd just finished off and from Elysium herself, Command had yet to reestablish contact with Zoran. Acknowledging the quiet moment for what it was, Zoran decided to celebrate the successful Battlemech trial run. Having experienced the mech's ridiculous speed and maneuverability firsthand, as well as practicality of the Newton 2 Anti-gravity system installed within, the lieutenant decided to try a moved he'd been practicing with far lighter mechs.

Cranking the anti-grav system to it's highest setting (while still within safety margins), Zoran lifted one of Elysium's legs and kicked off the ground with the other. Assisted with a little nudge from maneuvering thrusters and the mech's jumpjets, Zoran twisted and danced in the air before greeting the earth with a three-point landing. His grin growing larger with thoughts of other dance moves he could get away with the anti-grav, the lieutenant's attention was turned back to reality as his CO barked her orders for him to RTB for a debriefing.

Voicing his affirmative, Zoran allowed himself a little distraction as he maneuvered his way through the forest. Already, he'd begun formulating the words he would use to convey his glowing approval of the new Hel Knight Assault Mech, as well as his eager hopes of keeping Disco Elysium as his assigned machine.

That, and what sound system he'd put in if, no, WHEN he got Elysium.



Notes: @prometheus110 hope this is okay as an omake. May have exaggerated how ridiculous the antigrav can be, sorrynotsorry. Also, energy weapons plus antigrav equals dancing disco mech. Consider this my formal proposal to establish the first Helghan Dance Lance in the Republic's History!

Links to the Hel Knight and Hel Priest Assault Mechs.

 

[silentorphan]

To back this up I would sooner vote for a plan that has us saturation bombing Sian with nuclear warheads before putting Kali back on the throne. It would probably kill fewer people in the long run.

Click to shrink...

Is Kali around? There was only a press mention about Sun-Tzu, but nothing about her.

 

[SuperHeavy]

Is Kali around? There was only a press mention about Sun-Tzu, but nothing about her.

Click to shrink...

I mixed up my Capellan female lunatics that somehow ended up running a star nation in my head.

 

[Nottheunmaker]

[X] Write-in Counteroffer: The Republic agrees to coordinate destabilizing efforts in the Mandate with the Capellan Confederation, on the condition that both polities will be permitted to engage in their own messaging wherever they have influence, and some at least lip service will be given to Republic messaging. In places where one side or the other has significantly more influence, the messaging will be coordinated. The Republic will also press for planets that are broken from the Mandate to be permitted a plebiscite to choose reintegration with the CapCon, but will not consider it a dealbreaker if that is refused.

I see no substantial difference between this and [ ] Yes, but maybe that's just me.

[X] Plan The Conference Call Preluding To War

The terraforming technologies especially! We could do so much if we got those done and dusted! Canopians please, I'm counting on you!

Disco Knight

Click to shrink...

Quoting this because I really did have a lot of fun reading this. You wanna write more stuff like that, even if boss man doesn't canon it, I'll still read and enjoy.

 

[abominable]

Quoting this because I really did have a lot of fun reading this. You wanna write more stuff like that, even if boss man doesn't canon it, I'll still read and enjoy.

Click to shrink...

Thanks, glad you liked it. Wanted to give it a larger fight, really highlight the Knight's speed and skirmishing. Unfortunately it's getting difficult finding the time for it. So best I can do was a little assault mech ballet spin.

 

[Simon. Andersen]

Romano Liao, on the other claw, is genuinely out of her fucking tree.

Click to shrink...

Fine. Than we just kill her and put someone else on the throne. Happy now.

 

[Forgothrax]

The Mandate is a reactionary rogue (and failed) state with nuclear warheads that attempted bio-terrorism in our capital city in the hopes of getting even more WMDs (this time with petrusite), their disregard of human life is frankly terrifying. Can they conquer us? Certainly not, their state would go beyond bankrupt in even attempting to calculate how costly an occupation would be but they can do a great deal of harm and I don't know if we have the tech to clean radiation (nor do I want to know the cost in AP of cleaning the aftermath of nuclear bombardment).

Click to shrink...

Yes, but also no?

They're not a serious military threat, and we demonstrated what the consequences are when we bitchslapped them hard for trying some bio-terror. I don't doubt that they could possibly figure out a way to smuggle in a dirty bomb somewhere, maybe. But their ability to do serious, lasting damage is limited, and based on their fortifications they know they can't win an offensive war. Ironically they're very useful as a buffer state as they currently exist. Reuniting the CapCon will give us a lot more area we have to defend, and our territory sprawls as it is. Improved Warp being three times as fast as KF inside our territory will really help, but...

 

[Retired Explorer]

Yes, but also no?

They're not a serious military threat, and we demonstrated what the consequences are when we bitchslapped them hard for trying some bio-terror. I don't doubt that they could possibly figure out a way to smuggle in a dirty bomb somewhere, maybe. But their ability to do serious, lasting damage is limited, and based on their fortifications they know they can't win an offensive war. Ironically they're very useful as a buffer state as they currently exist. Reuniting the CapCon will give us a lot more area we have to defend, and our territory sprawls as it is. Improved Warp being three times as fast as KF inside our territory will really help, but...

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I agree but think of it this way:

Lets ignore the human suffering for a moment (even if that is enough reason to try and depose the mandate through intrigue rather than war) and lets think the economic effects of them smuggling a dirty bomb. How many APs would it take? All those APs would be APs not being used in strenghtening us (and ORDI).

I think this tactic is more viable than you suggest simply because, as I said, they seem to disregard human life and suffering to a terrifying level, as such, it is likely that they would use suicide tactics (strap a nuke to an ASF and slam it against a city). This type of tactic is not sustainable in the long run but in the long run they would loose so it would be a question of how spiteful they are feeling (given that they are nobles about to loose their privileges the answer would likely be very spiteful).

 

[Forgothrax]

Yeah, I agree but think of it this way:

Lets ignore the human suffering for a moment (even if that is enough reason to try and depose the mandate through intrigue rather than war) and lets think the economic effects of them smuggling a dirty bomb. How many APs would it take? All those APs would be APs not being used in strenghtening us (and ORDI).

I think this tactic is more viable than you suggest simply because, as I said, they seem to disregard human life and suffering to a terrifying level, as such, it is likely that they would use suicide tactics (strap a nuke to an ASF and slam it against a city). This type of tactic is not sustainable in the long run but in the long run they would loose so it would be a question of how spiteful they are feeling (given that they are nobles about to loose their privileges the answer would likely be very spiteful).

Click to shrink...

Right now, though, we have peace. They are unlikely as a coalition of corrupt nobles to want that peace to be broken, because we should probably assume that they're not stupid and know that hitting us in a very painful way is probably likely to result in them losing their heads. I wouldn't be surprised if Romano's stupidity in attacking us is what got her the axe from them purely out of self-preservation.

This is why I don't consider them a threat so long as that calculus does not change. People who are not motivated out of ideology or blind stupidity are capable of considering when an action might be suicidal. Doing a terrorism on us is 110% suicidal.

 

[Retired Explorer]

This is why I don't consider them a threat so long as that calculus does not change. People who are not motivated out of ideology or blind stupidity are capable of considering when an action might be suicidal. Doing a terrorism on us is 110% suicidal.

Click to shrink...

Fair, I just want to make it clear that they are not a threat right now not because they aren't dangerous but rather because of the situation the Mandate is in.