I would still say that 4/6 is definetly needed this thing is supposed to stay away and let noctis and fighters deal with heavy threats while blasting everything to shrapnel that is fast enough to catch it.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone
- Thread starter prometheus110
- Start date
- Crossover
I call it a battle carrier but the better term would be Battlestar. This thing is a ship of the line that is also the best carrier the setting has seen since its main rival from Canon, the new sytris class, had less gun and less fighters while being heavier.
Edit: if we want a deciated carrier that would be 720 fighters for a hanger Bay of 108,000 tons.
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- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
[x]Plan: Support and Development
- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
Hey, are shields accounted for here? Like, have you allocated the necessary amount of tonnage and crit slots?
Look under cargo I made a 10,000 ton cargo hold to model their inclusion and manually relabaled it when posted to SV.
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- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
Ah, got it. Thanks!
Hmm true enough and we already have damascus carriers who are good enough. And the strikepower from multiple smaller carriers is not lower than from one big one, while a big brawler with a good amount of cap fighters and heavy armour/shields has a big advantage in ship to ship. So let`s build a battlestar or brawler instead?
I would say at least 4/6 thrust all the heavy NACS in the nose heavy armour and a ton of shields, AMS. I would also say lets not do the 20 collars and put in less than that, its an independant nightmare not an armed jumpship with a of battlegroup dropships. That would also differntiate it more from the Noctis and our other cruisers who also fullfill support roles.
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The build system we have favors max collar also 4/6 is a pursuit/escort speed. 3/5 is optimal battleship speeds which is what we want.. Don't take desgin ques from the McKenna class. it was steaming garbage because it wasted mass on being a 4/6 while being a ship of the line.
Archivist Grim
Totally not AI
- Location
- The abyss
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
Also, additional collars allows for further carrier dropships, further increasing fighter capacity. In essence it packs a mobile fleet with it, which would be fitting our current doctrine, and nightmare for any IS power and Clanners. Our cruiser pulls up, drops a supporting fleet, and than hits enemy fleet like a sledgehammer
My plan for a Battle carrier/Battlestar combat group is 1 Valor (20 collars) 3 noctis (3x12 collars) and 56 Pocket warships.
Edit: just one of these battlegroups would send a clear 8.4 million ton "Fuck around and find out message" even before it murderblender's the Freddie's copium huffing "navy"
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Archivist Grim
Totally not AI
- Location
- The abyss
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
Concordat got its missiles, we have small craft, fighters, and exotic energy weapons
Game Rules -- Naval Petrusite Usage
prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Alright, I've fucked around and added Petrusite consumption to naval vessels (I won't bother for ground troops since the amounts involved are minuscule compared to your production and naval consumption). I'm counting Petrusite and Irradiated Petrusite together as it gets really annoying to do them separately. It's still a work in progress, so the values might change as I take onboard people's thoughts and people create increasingly larger ships.
In short, though:
Helghan currently produces 1,000,000 tonnes of Petrusite per year.
Helghan naval vessels consume a flat amount of Petrusite per month which is determined by the formula M/50 where M is the total mass in tonnes of all the Petrusite-using components on the ship. This is then multiplied by 12 to get the yearly consumption per ship.
For example, the Noctis class has 48 arc cannons and 20 Improved PTCs for a combined mass of 57,720 Tonnes of Petrusite equipment. Per month, a single Noctis consumes 57,720/50 (or 1,154.4) Tonnes of Petrusite, and per year, it consumes 1,154.4*12 (or 13,852.8) Tonnes of Petrusite. Your Petrusite use is currently minimal as you've swapped out your Petrusite powerplants for fusion ones. Without that, the standard Hasta would consume 2,640 t/month (31,680 t/year) compared to its current consumption of 0 t/year.
As an aside, I'm considering adding Petrusite powerplants for naval vessels to encourage you to fuck around with creating expensive but incredibly powerful ships.
Edit:
I've updated the Naval sheet on the OOB page to have the latest data. If you spot any errors, let me know and I'll double check them.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Change Log:
In short, though:
Helghan currently produces 1,000,000 tonnes of Petrusite per year.
Helghan naval vessels consume a flat amount of Petrusite per month which is determined by the formula M/50 where M is the total mass in tonnes of all the Petrusite-using components on the ship. This is then multiplied by 12 to get the yearly consumption per ship.
For example, the Noctis class has 48 arc cannons and 20 Improved PTCs for a combined mass of 57,720 Tonnes of Petrusite equipment. Per month, a single Noctis consumes 57,720/50 (or 1,154.4) Tonnes of Petrusite, and per year, it consumes 1,154.4*12 (or 13,852.8) Tonnes of Petrusite. Your Petrusite use is currently minimal as you've swapped out your Petrusite powerplants for fusion ones. Without that, the standard Hasta would consume 2,640 t/month (31,680 t/year) compared to its current consumption of 0 t/year.
As an aside, I'm considering adding Petrusite powerplants for naval vessels to encourage you to fuck around with creating expensive but incredibly powerful ships.
Edit:
I've updated the Naval sheet on the OOB page to have the latest data. If you spot any errors, let me know and I'll double check them.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover
Helghast Order of Battle: Doctrine: Super-mobile blitzkrieg doctrine based around deploying divisions via ship-based dropships and cruisers. Navy...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Change Log:
- Changed Tonnes to Units for added obsfuscation
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welp. we're gonna need to shift naval planning now. Time to work on rolling out the Naval PPC boats.
OpSihg_Stabr
Crazy (Evil) Genius
I feel like that is going to become a unit of standardized measurement for us.
Does refined Petrusite decay over time? Are there just constant live-fire drills with naval ordinance? I get why there would be a constant drain of Petrusite with P Reactors, but I don't think there are enough pirates in the whole ORDI for every ship with a Petrusite weapon to be constantly draining it or putting up their shields (those are also Petrusite based right?).
Is it just flatly combined with all other Petrusite expenditures for simplicity's sake, as opposed to being a resource that needs to be stock-piled and then burned through in combat like would make more sense for ammunition/shield use?
Is it just flatly combined with all other Petrusite expenditures for simplicity's sake, as opposed to being a resource that needs to be stock-piled and then burned through in combat like would make more sense for ammunition/shield use?
how do shields factor into this?Alright, I've fucked around and added Petrusite consumption to naval vessels (I won't bother for ground troops since the amounts involved are minuscule compared to your production and naval consumption). I'm counting Petrusite and Irradiated Petrusite together as it gets really annoying to do them separately. It's still a work in progress, so the values might change as I take onboard people's thoughts and people create increasingly larger ships.
In short, though:
Helghan currently produces 1,000,000 tonnes of Petrusite per year.
Helghan naval vessels consume a flat amount of Petrusite per month which is determined by the formula M/50 where M is the total mass in tonnes of all the Petrusite-using components on the ship. This is then multiplied by 12 to get the yearly consumption per ship.
For example, the Noctis class has 48 arc cannons and 20 Improved PTCs for a combined mass of 57,720 Tonnes of Petrusite equipment. Per month, a single Noctis consumes 57,720/50 (or 1,154.4) Tonnes of Petrusite, and per year, it consumes 1,154.4*12 (or 13,852.8) Tonnes of Petrusite. Your Petrusite use is currently minimal as you've swapped out your Petrusite powerplants for fusion ones. Without that, the standard Hasta would consume 2,640 t/month (31,680 t/year) compared to its current consumption of 0 t/year.
As an aside, I'm considering adding Petrusite powerplants for naval vessels to encourage you to fuck around with creating expensive but incredibly powerful ships.
Edit:
I've updated the Naval sheet on the OOB page to have the latest data. If you spot any errors, let me know and I'll double check them.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover
Helghast Order of Battle: Doctrine: Super-mobile blitzkrieg doctrine based around deploying divisions via ship-based dropships and cruisers. Navy...
KnightofTempest
The Man who would be King
- Location
- Chicago
Alright, I've fucked around and added Petrusite consumption to naval vessels (I won't bother for ground troops since the amounts involved are minuscule compared to your production and naval consumption). I'm counting Petrusite and Irradiated Petrusite together as it gets really annoying to do them separately. It's still a work in progress, so the values might change as I take onboard people's thoughts and people create increasingly larger ships.
In short, though:
Helghan currently produces 1,000,000 tonnes of Petrusite per year.
Helghan naval vessels consume a flat amount of Petrusite per month which is determined by the formula M/50 where M is the total mass in tonnes of all the Petrusite-using components on the ship. This is then multiplied by 12 to get the yearly consumption per ship.
For example, the Noctis class has 48 arc cannons and 20 Improved PTCs for a combined mass of 57,720 Tonnes of Petrusite equipment. Per month, a single Noctis consumes 57,720/50 (or 1,154.4) Tonnes of Petrusite, and per year, it consumes 1,154.4*12 (or 13,852.8) Tonnes of Petrusite. Your Petrusite use is currently minimal as you've swapped out your Petrusite powerplants for fusion ones. Without that, the standard Hasta would consume 2,640 t/month (31,680 t/year) compared to its current consumption of 0 t/year.
As an aside, I'm considering adding Petrusite powerplants for naval vessels to encourage you to fuck around with creating expensive but incredibly powerful ships.
Edit:
I've updated the Naval sheet on the OOB page to have the latest data. If you spot any errors, let me know and I'll double check them.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover
Helghast Order of Battle: Doctrine: Super-mobile blitzkrieg doctrine based around deploying divisions via ship-based dropships and cruisers. Navy...
I think you need to revise your numbers up.
A lot.
That isn't anywhere near a commercially viable amount of gas
For reference, the tenth-largest producer of natural gas on earth produces 25 billion tons of natural gas a year.
And their fields are declining.
If you want to get granular, you have to put in the research
okay Draft 1 Liberator class Escort. packs in 12 Heavy Naval PPCs for long range Broadside work, and 3 NAC20s for strafting. the lasers in the aft are for when you need to hover over something and slap it lightly. its also packing 5000 tons of Sub cap missle launchers though i'm not sold on which model it should pack yet.
Code:
Liberator Escort draft 1
Base Tech Level: Advanced (IS)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced 3145+
Standard -
Tech Rating: E/X-X-X-F
Weight: 600000 tons
BV: 79,425
Cost: 16,710,616,000 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 2000 [4000]
Fuel Points: 0/25000 (10000.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 39.52
Structural Integrity: 70
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 13
Armor: 546 (Capital Scale) (Improved Ferro-Alum)
Armor
-------------------------
Nose 119
Left Front Side 98
Right Front Side 98
Aft 57
Aft Left Side 87
Aft Right Side 87
Weapons Loc Heat
-----------------------------------------------------
Capital PPC Bay RBS 675
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Capital PPC Bay LBS 675
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Capital PPC Bay RBS 675
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Capital PPC Bay LBS 675
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Naval PPC (Heavy)
Capital AC Bay NOS 180
Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)
Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)
Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)
NAC/20 Ammo 60
Capital Laser Bay AFT 510
Naval Laser 55
Naval Laser 55
Naval Laser 55
Naval Laser 55
Naval Laser 55
Naval Laser 55
Sub-Capital Missile Bay FLS 168
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Manta Ray Ammo 160
Sub-Capital Missile Bay FRS 168
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Manta Ray Ammo 160
Sub-Capital Missile Bay ALS 168
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Manta Ray Ammo 160
Sub-Capital Missile Bay ARS 168
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Manta Ray)
Manta Ray Ammo 160
Laser Bay RBS 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Laser Bay AFT 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Laser Bay ARS 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Laser Bay ALS 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Laser Bay LBS 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Laser Bay FRS 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Laser Bay NOS 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Laser Bay FLS 64
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
Large Laser
AMS Bay NOS 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
AMS Bay AFT 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
AMS Bay RBS 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
AMS Bay LBS 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
AMS Bay FRS 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
AMS Bay FLS 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
AMS Bay ALS 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
AMS Bay ARS 98
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Laser AMS
Equipment Loc
----------------------------------------
Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large) HULL
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
6 Sheild - 6,000 tons
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Aerospace Fighter (6 doors) - 48 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (1 door) - 27,179 tons
Crew
-----------------------
Officers 41
Enlisted/Non-rated 136
Gunners 64
Bay Personnel 96
BA Marines 25prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm aware that the values listed aren't realistic, but multiplying it by 10x or 100x doesn't actually have a meaningful impact on gameplay whereas 1 million is a large but easy to grasp number.
Hell, I could say you produce 1 petrusite/year and refactor everything around that, and all it'd do is make it more annoying to type the numbers out.
Like every other bit of petrusite equipment as I'm not about to figure out burn rates for various bits of equipment
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Petrucite isn't really comparable to natural gas or other fossil fuels. It's really an exotic element for all the physics-bending properties and rarity it has, despite ostensibly being a plasma-based reactor system. If we want to compare it to some IRL resource, it's like how over half of the world's cobalt is from the DRC. Only even more centralized.
- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
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- He/Him
It's also worth pointing out that global Uranium production was 48,332 tonnes in 2021.
- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
Wait... doesn't this mean we're also exporting some amount of peppies to the aurigans and canopians? Though they're probs too negligible an amount to really matter. Maybe a few hundred peppies?
I suppose part of the problem is history? The Republic lost a load of Petrusite infrastructure in the wars and transition, but their general knowledge of it is almost at the peak of the old levels. And the old Helghan Corporation colonized and mined explicitly for Petrusite and with it fueled most if not all of Helghan and Vekta's energy needs, and sold mega-corp amounts back to Earth and other colonies (y'know, back when it was a corp planet, and before they probably lost some production with a reversion to tyranny, and then regained it with a need to fuel the war machine instead of Vetka). And this was probably with LESS advanced and more wasteful energy generation. Those requirements are at least a magnitude greater then 1 million tons.
Taking the Uranium and Gas comparison in mind...Petrusite is far more energy dense then Gas and is generally not nearly so relied upon for power generation (currently). In the past though, unlike Uranium, there is both actually a much greater demand for it power-wise then IRL Earth that's pretty much still in the grip of OPEC, and it is much more quickly used up in the power-generation process then fission depletes Uranium rods. It is also much, MUCH more plentiful on Helghan, and Helghan technology to extract and process resources is much more advanced.
Now, if it turns out there is only a million tons for a highly industrialized and explicitly rich planet because Helghan actually hasn't reclaimed much Petrusite extraction at all (I'm not really sure, I know there've been actions there, but I haven't seen 'em in a while, and I've got no idea on the numbers it would have been in it's peak just before the invasion of Vetka) and the refining process reduces it even further...thats another thing. We were just mining it to study it, and then to fuel some infantry and then mech guns. Not support a planetary scale array of surface to orbit cannons (much more inefficient then sticking those guns in orbit on ships), or provide power for two different planets with billions of people and probably an even greater degree of energy consumption then IRL - that's only been growing after-all.
A bigger issue then the numbers, since it seems clear all the balancing is more about proportions, is the fact that the drain is constant. Since the Navy has largely moved away from P Reactors, and it doesn't look like we'll be going back with fusion to use instead...is there any real justification for a constant drain? Combat use of Petrusite should naturally be far more costly in resources because of all the energy being used up in relative moments to fire particles and power energy shields as opposed to being gradually converted to plasma, then electricity like with a reactor. But you don't fire naval-grade arc-weapons constantly, or keep the shields on when no one's shooting at you.
Taking the Uranium and Gas comparison in mind...Petrusite is far more energy dense then Gas and is generally not nearly so relied upon for power generation (currently). In the past though, unlike Uranium, there is both actually a much greater demand for it power-wise then IRL Earth that's pretty much still in the grip of OPEC, and it is much more quickly used up in the power-generation process then fission depletes Uranium rods. It is also much, MUCH more plentiful on Helghan, and Helghan technology to extract and process resources is much more advanced.
Now, if it turns out there is only a million tons for a highly industrialized and explicitly rich planet because Helghan actually hasn't reclaimed much Petrusite extraction at all (I'm not really sure, I know there've been actions there, but I haven't seen 'em in a while, and I've got no idea on the numbers it would have been in it's peak just before the invasion of Vetka) and the refining process reduces it even further...thats another thing. We were just mining it to study it, and then to fuel some infantry and then mech guns. Not support a planetary scale array of surface to orbit cannons (much more inefficient then sticking those guns in orbit on ships), or provide power for two different planets with billions of people and probably an even greater degree of energy consumption then IRL - that's only been growing after-all.
A bigger issue then the numbers, since it seems clear all the balancing is more about proportions, is the fact that the drain is constant. Since the Navy has largely moved away from P Reactors, and it doesn't look like we'll be going back with fusion to use instead...is there any real justification for a constant drain? Combat use of Petrusite should naturally be far more costly in resources because of all the energy being used up in relative moments to fire particles and power energy shields as opposed to being gradually converted to plasma, then electricity like with a reactor. But you don't fire naval-grade arc-weapons constantly, or keep the shields on when no one's shooting at you.
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