Hey, is there a compendium of the available components anywhere, particularly the homebrewed Helghan ones? The tech trees are nice, but they must not be telling the whole story, since I see TAG in use but I don't see that anywhere on them. And I know our small, medium, and large lasers have +200%, +100% and +50% range, respectively (making the smalls and mediums easily competitive with Clan tech), but I think there's also something special with our missiles and I'm not sure what.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone
- Thread starter prometheus110
- Start date
- Crossover
prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not yet, it's a lot of work. It'll probably end up being a TRO done after the quest is over.
- Location
- Back in Cali
That is the thing we have no proof that it is a los-tech anything. The "story" is that it was a dropship that crashed that is it. There is little to back that claim and there is even less to back a claim of los-tech which is why it annoyed me when people kept going for it as if it was the holy grail or something. We have no information on what it could be so it is a major unkown that is taking up AP better used on other more important and immediately useful actions.
We won't be going to war any time soon. That gives her time to rebuild and expand. And she has the advantage that the TC or MoC will not send most of their forces to a fight. In any near war it will be the AMC and the HAF that are going to be doing the most fighting. So we need to both buy time for the AC to build up and expand and for us to cause internal trouble.
- Location
- USA
well actually we don't know what it is Local legends is about a Dropship full of gold and jewels that was lost during a local storm. But that's just a legend and our analysts thinks is a bit to much on the nose
- Location
- Back in Cali
Yes...
That is my point we have nothing but a legend to go off of for it.
Hmm, that makes it hard to design things. What's the deal with our missile weapons, then? And is AMS available?
prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You've got SRMs, MRMs, and LRMs plus pretty much every ammunition type for them since none of them are actually special, IIRC. You can make AMSs.
- Location
- Back in Cali
We have every tech in level 1. Level 2 is a mix match but anything that requires advanced electronics and wasn't purely royal division tech we can make. We have what basically amounts to -1 to hit for missiles off of whatever the base is. Ballistics is the same we have all level 1, we can make caseless ammo and guns, we have the Light AC-2s/5s but they are still shorter range like the base models. And we can make RAC-2s/5s.
@Vanigo also if you want to join the Unit Design PM just ask.
Last edited:
here's the tech sheets for the medium tank Adventwolf mentioned i was working on. While at work today i realized that the Wolfhound is kinda suited to the Lobo treatment if on a smaller scale (3 variants to the Lobo's 8). the Wolfhound is faster, tougher, carries a more flexible loadout, and since it uses Helgan Counter Grav as its motive system its an all terrian unit
Tank
APC, i'm kinda wanting to do a side door set up on this one for a change of pace compared to the normal rear ramp set up .
IFV
@Adventwolf i'll post it in the thread along with refernce pictures for if you decide to commission art of it. Should i find some reference material for the Lynx as well?
Tank
Code:
Wolfhound Tank
Mass: 40 tons
Movement Type: Helgan Counter Grav
Power Plant: 240 Fuel Cell
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
1 Light AC/5
2 Machine Gun
1 LRM 5
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 1,219,400 C-bills
Type: Wolfhound
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Movement Type: Helgan Counter Grav
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 637
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure 4
Engine 240 Fuel Cell 14
Cruising MP: 6
Flank MP: 9
Heat Sinks: 1 0
Control Equipment: 2.0
Power Amplifier: 0.0
Turret: 1.0
Armor Factor 128 8
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front 4 33
R/L Side 4/4 25/25
Rear 4 20
Turret 4 25
Weapons
and Ammo Location Tonnage
Trailer Hitch Rear 0.0
Machine Gun Front 0.5
Light AC/5 Turret 5.0
Machine Gun Turret 0.5
LRM 5 Turret 2.0
LRM 5 Ammo (24) Body 1.0
Half Machine Gun Ammo (100) Body 0.5
Caseless LAC/5 Ammo (40) Body 1.0
CASE Body 0.5
Code:
Wolfhound APC
Mass: 40 tons
Movement Type: Helgan Counter Grav
Power Plant: 240 Fuel Cell
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
3 Machine Gun
1 LRM 5
1 SRM 4
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 1,124,200 C-bills
Type: Wolfhound
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Movement Type: Helgan Counter Grav
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 605
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure 4
Engine 240 Fuel Cell 14
Cruising MP: 6
Flank MP: 9
Heat Sinks: 1 0
Control Equipment: 2.0
Power Amplifier: 0.0
Turret: 0.5
Armor Factor 128 8
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front 4 33
R/L Side 4/4 25/25
Rear 4 20
Turret 4 25
Weapons
and Ammo Location Tonnage
Trailer Hitch Rear 0.0
Machine Gun Front 0.5
2 Machine Guns Turret 1.0
LRM 5 Turret 2.0
SRM 4 Turret 2.0
LRM 5 Ammo (24) Body 1.0
Half Machine Gun Ammo (100) Body 0.5
CASE Body 0.5
SRM 4 Ammo (25) Body 1.0
Infantry Body 3.0
Code:
Wolfhound IFV
Mass: 40 tons
Movement Type: Helgan Counter Grav
Power Plant: 240 Fuel Cell
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
3 Machine Gun
1 LRM 5
1 SRM 6
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 1,155,700 C-bills
Type: Wolfhound
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Movement Type: Helgan Counter Grav
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 638
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure 4
Engine 240 Fuel Cell 14
Cruising MP: 6
Flank MP: 9
Heat Sinks: 1 0
Control Equipment: 2.0
Power Amplifier: 0.0
Turret: 1.0
Armor Factor 128 8
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front 4 33
R/L Side 4/4 25/25
Rear 4 20
Turret 4 25
Weapons
and Ammo Location Tonnage
Trailer Hitch Rear 0.0
Machine Gun Front 0.5
2 Machine Guns Turret 1.0
LRM 5 Turret 2.0
SRM 6 Turret 3.0
LRM 5 Ammo (24) Body 1.0
Half Machine Gun Ammo (100) Body 0.5
CASE Body 0.5
SRM 6 Ammo (15) Body 1.0
Infantry Body 1.5@Adventwolf i'll post it in the thread along with refernce pictures for if you decide to commission art of it. Should i find some reference material for the Lynx as well?
- Location
- Back in Cali
Yeah since it will be a main part of the Helghan forces so we can make units for art.
Stop: This is Unacceptable
Ellf
Apprentice Wizard
- Location
- Virginia
this is unacceptable
@coyote16able, This quoted post is very uncivil, a violation of Rule 3. I'm going to be removing you from this thread for three days and issuing you a 25 point infraction under that rule.
@coyote16able, This quoted post is very uncivil, a violation of Rule 3. I'm going to be removing you from this thread for three days and issuing you a 25 point infraction under that rule.
Oh, I didn't realize there was a unit design PM; I haven't been following this thread very closely.
But man. Those medium lasers. I don't know much about how Battletech designs work out in practice, but when your medium lasers have the range profile of PPCs, it seems like you should be putting them on everything. It makes me think about ridiculous flashbulb meme builds like this:
Code:
Meme MEM-1H
Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D-D
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 9,011,000 C-Bills
Total Cost: 9,011,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,952
Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
12 Medium Lasers
6 Small Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 152 points 10.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 300 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 41 31.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 7 LT, 7 RT, 5 LA, 5 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 304 19.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 48
Center Torso (rear) 13
L/R Torso 21 31
L/R Torso (rear) 11
L/R Arm 17 33
L/R Leg 21 42
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers CT 6 2 2.00
3 Medium Lasers RT 9 3 3.00
2 Small Lasers RT 2 2 1.00
3 Medium Lasers LT 9 3 3.00
2 Small Lasers LT 2 2 1.00
2 Medium Lasers RA 6 2 2.00
Small Laser RA 1 1 0.50
2 Medium Lasers LA 6 2 2.00
Small Laser LA 1 1 0.50
Free Critical Slots: 0
- Location
- California
[X] Plan Colonies, Armor and FTL
- Location
- Somewhere left of nowhere near anywhere
[X] Plan: Diplomacy and light navel build up
- Location
- Back in Cali
@F0lkL0re here is the Carrier TRO for the plan. As I said before the carrier is more than good enough that any model built will be still used no matter what new technology is developed.
Code:
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
* CUSTOM WEAPONS
Class/Model/Name: Damascaus Class Carrier
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 3, Custom design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 550,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Helghast Warp Drive Mk 3*)
Length: 550 meters
Sail Diameter: 1,042 meters
Power Plant: *Helghast Fusion Drive Mk 3*
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
24 Helghast L-Laser*
32 Helghast S-Laser*
16 H-AC/2*
16 H-AC/5*
16 H-LRM 20*
32 AMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Damascaus Class Carrier
Mass: 550,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: *Helghast Fusion Drive Mk 3* 132,000.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
K-F Hyperdrive: *Helghast Warp Drive Mk 3* (Integrity = 12) 248,875.00
Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 4) 58.00
Structural Integrity: 70 38,500.00
Total Heat Sinks: 558 Single .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 10,885.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,375.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (90 days supply) 383.50
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Standard (350 total armor pts) 769.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 66
Fore-Left/Right: 58/58
Aft-Left/Right: 58/58
Aft: 52
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (48) with 6 doors 7,200.00
Fighters (48) with 6 doors 7,200.00
Bay 2: Fighters (24) with 3 doors 3,600.00
Small Craft (12) with 3 doors 2,400.00
Bay 3: Cargo (1) with 2 doors 80,513.50
Bay 4: Communication Equipment (1) 15.00
Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large) (1) 500.00
Satellite Imagers (Hi-Res, Infrared, Look-Down,) (4 50.00
DropShip Capacity: 2 Docking Hardpoints 2,000.00
Life Boats: 71 (7 tons each) 497.00
Escape Pods: 71 (7 tons each) 497.00
Crew and Passengers:
58 Officers (58 minimum) 580.00
248 Crew (97 minimum) 1,736.00
46 Gunners (23 minimum) 322.00
200 Marines 1,000.00
300 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Helghast L-Laser* Nose 4(36) 2(24) 2(24) -- 24 15.00
4 Helghast S-Laser* 4 2.00
2 H-AC/2*(90 rounds) Nose 1(14) 1(14) 0(4) -- 2 14.00
2 H-AC/5*(80 rounds) 2 20.00
2 H-LRM 20*(48 rounds) Nose 2(24) 2(24) 2(24) -- 12 28.00
4 AMS(144 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 4 14.00
3 Helghast L-Laser* FL/R 4(36) 2(24) 2(24) -- 48 30.00
4 Helghast S-Laser* 8 4.00
2 H-AC/2*(90 rounds) FL/R 1(14) 1(14) 0(4) -- 4 28.00
2 H-AC/5*(80 rounds) 4 40.00
2 H-LRM 20*(48 rounds) FL/R 2(24) 2(24) 2(24) -- 24 56.00
4 AMS(144 rounds) FL/R -- -- -- -- 8 28.00
3 Helghast L-Laser* L/RBS 4(36) 2(24) 2(24) -- 48 30.00
4 Helghast S-Laser* 8 4.00
2 H-AC/2*(90 rounds) L/RBS 1(14) 1(14) 0(4) -- 4 28.00
2 H-AC/5*(80 rounds) 4 40.00
2 H-LRM 20*(48 rounds) L/RBS 2(24) 2(24) 2(24) -- 24 56.00
4 AMS(144 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 8 28.00
3 Helghast L-Laser* AL/R 4(36) 2(24) 2(24) -- 48 30.00
4 Helghast S-Laser* 8 4.00
2 H-AC/2*(90 rounds) AL/R 1(14) 1(14) 0(4) -- 4 28.00
2 H-AC/5*(80 rounds) 4 40.00
2 H-LRM 20*(48 rounds) AL/R 2(24) 2(24) 2(24) -- 24 56.00
4 AMS(144 rounds) AL/R -- -- -- -- 8 28.00
3 Helghast L-Laser* Aft 4(36) 2(24) 2(24) -- 24 15.00
4 Helghast S-Laser* 4 2.00
2 H-AC/2*(90 rounds) Aft 1(14) 1(14) 0(4) -- 2 14.00
2 H-AC/5*(80 rounds) 2 20.00
2 H-LRM 20*(48 rounds) Aft 2(24) 2(24) 2(24) -- 12 28.00
4 AMS(144 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 4 14.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.50%) 8,250.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 384 550,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 4,689,161,768 C-Bills
Battle Value: 31,402
Cost per BV: 149,326.85
Weapon Value: 21,990 (Ratio = .70)
Damage Factors: SRV = 648; MRV = 392; LRV = 140; ERV = 0
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 277,281
(62,629 Structure, 199,488 Life Support, 15,164 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 401,322 (145% of MPV)
BattleForce2: Not applicable
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Thanks I'll add that to the plan.
A mostly retarded question, but what is the stance on applying in-universe technology in different ways? Like an intermediate step to Multi-Missile Launchers where it's an LRM20 launch rack mated to an LRM5 feeder system for burst fire capability at lower weight and/or critical slots?
Or an SRM20 that loads four or five weapons at a time, allowing for some truly nasty ambusher designs...
Or an SRM20 that loads four or five weapons at a time, allowing for some truly nasty ambusher designs...
- Location
- Back in Cali
Yeah there is if you want to join you can ask. As for the mech the issue is that the at that size and the role it would take lasers are too weak to be useful. Sandblasting with lasers only works against the Lights or Mediums. Heavy and above which is what it would be fighting are too tough for the lasers to do the job before they are overwhelmed.
what's gonna be the fighter mix for it at this point? i'm leaning to 6 Serpents and 4 Daga squadrons atm since the Daga fighters are more specialized then the Serpents. however the Serpents are the obvious choice for being carried on our cruisers since they are multi-mission platforms.
also i had an idea for an Air to air missile based on the Thunderbolt 15 missle. one T-15 missle weights 250 kilos, if we add 250 kilos worth of fuel, flak shards and ejectable decoys this thing would be extremely deadly to most ASFs since it would have an easier time hitting and would have the range to be one hell of an opening shot.
edit: in addtion an Serpent could carry 10 of them while only losing 1 MP since the total weight of hard point missles would be 5 tons.
also i had an idea for an Air to air missile based on the Thunderbolt 15 missle. one T-15 missle weights 250 kilos, if we add 250 kilos worth of fuel, flak shards and ejectable decoys this thing would be extremely deadly to most ASFs since it would have an easier time hitting and would have the range to be one hell of an opening shot.
edit: in addtion an Serpent could carry 10 of them while only losing 1 MP since the total weight of hard point missles would be 5 tons.
- Location
- Back in Cali
Whatever is needed for ASF is the mission. But for now just a mix of Daga and Serpent fighters. Once the attack fighters and the Dropper killers are made them the numbers would be revised.what's gonna be the fighter mix for it at this point? i'm leaning to 6 Serpents and 4 Daga squadrons atm since the Daga fighters are more specialized then the Serpents. however the Serpents are the obvious choice for being carried on our cruisers since they are multi-mission platforms.
also i had an idea for an Air to air missile based on the Thunderbolt 15 missle. one T-15 missle weights 250 kilos, if we add 250 kilos worth of fuel, flak shards and ejectable decoys this thing would be extremely deadly to most ASFs since it would have an easier time hitting and would have the range to be one hell of an opening shot.
edit: in addtion an Serpent could carry 10 of them while only losing 1 MP since the total weight of hard point missles would be 5 tons.
That is just not true. There's a whole pile of Heavy and Assault weight mechs that are basically 1/2 big-ish guns (8-20 damage) and then a handful of medium lasers (or SRMs with similar range/damage profiles), and they're all broadly competitive with each other. The extra ability to focus fire in one spot doesn't always outweigh two to four times as much in raw damage.
Especially since there's a hard limit on how much armor can be stacked on the head - which means it doesn't matter if it takes 8-10 ML hits to break through on somebody's center torso, because it only takes 2 to break through the head. A dozen guns firing at once means you'd expect one of each 2d6 result for hit locations a round, and at that rate the 2-3 rounds it takes to headshot somebody is awfully competitive with the 2-4 hits it takes to punch through an arbitrary facing with a standard big gun.
- Location
- Back in Cali
That would be true if the hits always went to the same place. But they don't. It is called sandblasting for a reason. You use the lighter weapons to strip armor then you follow up with a stronger weapon. Or you just go with stronger weapons in the first place. Also head hits are the hardest and least likely ones to happen.
And in those 2-4 rounds it takes the enemy has already gotten in range and is hitting you back making it even harder to land hits where you want it. Trying to use an assault as a sandblasting mech only is a bad idea as that is not the role they are built for.
And in those 2-4 rounds it takes the enemy has already gotten in range and is hitting you back making it even harder to land hits where you want it. Trying to use an assault as a sandblasting mech only is a bad idea as that is not the role they are built for.
Well... No. The use of two dice biases it to "average" values. As there are more combinations that come out to six or seven than two or twelve.
There is another reason for the big gun mech approach for heavies and assaults: presented threat value. Most mech warriors will zero in on the big gun mechs either to take them out or avoid thereby allowing us to manipulate their behavior in battle; either suckering in stronger foes/more reckless foes or keeping the more cautious at bay.
As well as the very real danger of concentrated damage over diffuse. Losing two thirds of your overall armor is "fine". Losing a side torso, or all of it's armor to threaten the loss as well as criticals, forces a pilot to back off for repairs back at base. Because personal and force preservation is something that humans will consider in a fight.