Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
Very likely and should we be well prepared for it would be a nice opportunity to have the Capellans reclaim some of there lost territory.
Going to try the absolute hardest to avoid this one.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone
- Thread starter prometheus110
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- USA
That one I'm most concerned about because the FWLN is the only untouched Navy at the moment in the Inner Sphere. Which is also why I'm slightly concerned also with the potential first possibility as that could mean fight three different forces.
Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
Well ORDI is mass producing warships at an insane rate. Like even if the FWL navy was untouched it is still smaller than that of most ORDI states. Also they don't have shields and it will take a while for when they research shield for them to actually reach our level. So we still have the advantage there.
But still avoiding war with the FWL should be a priority for the sequel.
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- Location
- USA
see my big concerns is the fact the FWL hasn't seen actual combat and naval fleet is untouch and rebuilding they also have all the data that they gathered from the outback war and the clan invasion.
After all one of the most devastating things that the FedSuns did during the Outback War was the deep strike against the Aurgians and assaults against the Communications network. Durning the Clan Invasion for a while ORDI deep strikes against Clan Shipping worked not to mention all the available data gathered durning fleet engagements between all forces.
Basically the big problem is the FWL has been untouched and in the case of the Clan Invasion has actually profited from the weapons sales has allowed for the FLWM to grow and adapt without taking losses.
And that there unexperienced navy people that likely has a lot of nobles that got in it because there connections not their skills take the wrong lessons from what is happening.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
That's a Lyran problem, not a FWL problem. Especially not with the military reforms Tomas has been pushing through. I'd be more worried about him starting a minor boarder conflict to bloody the new navy. That's the sort of move I'd expect out of him.
- Location
- USA
Let's not forget if the FWL wants experience training and wargames do help also finally dealing with the Marian's is also an option.
Marian Heg has already been dealt with they've been reformed into the Alphard Republic the most Helghanesque of all our allies. If they wanted to fight other people it'd be the Illyrians, Lothians or circinus federation. If we're talking about non-ORDI states.
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Your welcome. Considering this is your first work you are off to a good start, as good if not better than my first works, which I think were little better than small walls of text. I look forward to seeing what you produce in the future.
And to everyone Happy New Year. It is almost melancholy to have this end so close to New Years but I can't say that I am not glad to have been a part of this quest.
- Location
- colombia
TVD - some edgy helghan teen in helghan-chan
Well for that to actually happen our population would have to actually be willing to lose some people... which I don't see happening. Our people are far too dove like.
Genolution
Hello there
In fairness, if Helghan was on a trajectory to scale up its pink imperialism or make the hop to good old normal imperialism, there's a good chance that its imperialism will be directed at groups that really can't do much in response. When we intervened in Caliban and New Oslo, that was for good reasons, but the locals really could not do very much to us in return. If, in the sequel, the Helghan government decides to do something like that to a much less deserving target, Helghan could do a lot of fairly nasty imperialism to any less developed colonies that we end up contacting rimwards of the Fronc Reaches. It might then turn into a steady stream of casualties from counterinsurgency from the people getting imperialized, but that is going to take longer to take its toll on political support than, say, the casualties we took in the Mandate Civil War (where we got nuked), the Outback War (where we fought the largest military in the Inner Sphere, and also got our navy nuked, with more advanced nukes), or the Clan Invasion (where we did in fact get an absolute shellacking from the Clans, who, unfortunately, are almost as good at fighting as they think they are).
A clan frontline cluster can chew through a division or a regimental combat team, spit it out, and ask for seconds. It's unfortunate, but in some of the places where we might hypothetically do an imperialism, there isn't any comparable force like that to punish us for said imperialism.
While Prom has confirmed that the ORDI states are more modern, bith technologically and ideologically/organizationally, and thus largely more productive per capita it bears pointing out that the Great Houses are still very large. ORDI combined has 272 controlled systems, many of them fresh colonies, while the Free Worlds League has a hundred more systems, many of them established for quite a while.
I suppose then that I do agree with your latter point that we need to conduct diplomacy with the Free Worlds League to keep them at least somewhat neutral to us rather than actively hostile (in the hypothetical sequel). While they aren't likely to match the combined fleets of ORDI, or even possibly the fleet of a larger ORDI member state, a two front war with them in the event of a renewed conflict with the Federated Suns rapidly becomes a very untenable situation. This does make the Capellan revanchism mentioned pretty dangerous; we may need to work with with the Taurians on the ORDI Security Council to keep a political lid on that, at least towards the Mariks (some of the votes promised by the Alphard Republic might end up being used for that).
The Draconis Combine is at least somewhat of a going concern here still, so they at least still present a bit of a threat to the Federated Suns in the event of the war, but they've been reduced to smaller than ORDI, their political and economic system is likely wildly inefficient for what resources they do have (even with Theodore's reforms he probably can't get actually enough stuff through, and a lot of what he does get through might not stick and will definitely take a long time to stick), and they have Clans about a jump or two away from Pesht and Luthien, among other systems.
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- Location
- Nice try
Well I mention imperialism is that the Imperialist faction was steadly gaining support and finish with 32%.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
I'm ultimately glad that Helghan and ORDI turned out the way it did, even if they obviously have big issues looming the future. At the start of the quest, I was genuinely terrified we'd become a puppet of the Federated Suns, with the player base twisting itself into pretzels in order to justify the Suns as being 'obviously the good guys' as we become nothing more than a glorified University for them, pumping out tech improvements and prototypes as they crush the Capellans and Combine.
I'm genuinely happy the playerbase didn't go in that bootlicking direction.
I'm genuinely happy the playerbase didn't go in that bootlicking direction.
Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
If I remember correctly that isn't how popular the party is but how popular we are with said party.
Indeed which is why that revanchism if we can't lessen it should be pushed in the direction of the Feds continuously until there no longer a threat while our relationship with the FWL should be at least cordial and at best friendly.
I can imagine how scary that period must have been. I wonder though who or what caused the change in direction the players would take the Helghan republic?
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I believe it was when the FedSuns started producing knock offs of a bunch of things that we sold them and everyone realised that we got badly scamed.
- Location
- Florida
That might be an even bigger problem because it was already implied some of the former Capellan worlds that were conquered in the last war by the Federated Suns were worried about potentially rejoining the Capellans and losing their newly gained rights and that is likely to be far worse for worlds that have been part of the Suns for decades or even centuries.
The Federated Suns may be imperialistic in some ways in regard to the Capellans but they are effective at it and have actually gained significant loyalty from many former Capellan worlds. This was undoubtedly helped by the fact that the Federated Suns at its worse was still better than the pre-Tormano Capellans at their best since they didn't endorse slavery for at minimum 10% of their population or have anywhere near as powerful a Secret Police since MIIO wishes it could do some of the things the Maskirovka routinely got away with but it doesn't change the fact that many former Capellan worlds consider themselves part of the Federated Suns now.
It's a particular problem since some of the worlds the Capellans claim as former Capellan worlds like the Cheserton worlds were never part of the Capellans merely part of some states that were later conquered by the Capellans and are vehemently anti-Capellan. There is a real risk the ORDI supports the Capellans against the Suns wins conventionally conquering all the Capellan claimed worlds then has the insurgency from hell just like the Federated Suns faced in the Outback.
Honestly, we should be trying to deescalate the tensions with the Federated Suns in the next quest and focusing our destabilization efforts against the Clans or Draconis Combine who are far worse than the Federated Suns. Remember there is a growing neo-Jacobian movement in the Federated Suns that could be a future ally since while the Helghan Republic is far to the Left of them politically we both oppose the Neo-Feudal or pro-fascist movements in the rest of human space.
Also, the FWL could be actually more vulnerable to a cultural subversion since they still remember and retain remnants of democracy even if the Captain Generals have over time subverted it into being another feudal dictatorship. At worse we could possibly break it into its component nations as happened in canon and end their threat that way focusing just on the Suns as a threat risk missing other threats or other opportunities to expand the ORDIs influence.
prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, I forgot to mention it here, but I've started another quest to get better at character stuff:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Hour of the Wolf (WHF)
It is the hour between night and dawn. It is the hour when most people die, when sleep is deepest, when nightmares are most real. It is the hour when the sleepless are haunted by their deepest fear, when ghosts and demons are most powerful, when the fated are born. It is the Hour of the Wolf...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Genolution
Hello there
Trying to repair relations with the Federated Suns is a pretty big ask, though. We humiliated them militarily and then took a major bite out of their territory, to the point that one of the march capitals, in essence their top level subfederal divisions, is effectively an enclave. That's not something the Federated Suns will forget, even under the comparatively "doveish" rulership of Morgan Davion, let alone a potential successor who is more hawkish, along with the appearance of a far right political movement who would like to reenact the Reunification War. Even the Neo-Jacobins (particularly the ones in the FedSuns core) are nationalists—and we did humiliate their nation completely and utterly. The Neo Jacobins will probably be friendlier to us, and thus it is in our interests to see such a regime in power, but they're likely outnumbered and not likely to see us as uncomplicated friends.
If we make nice with the FedRats, sure, fine, great, that's a problem dealt with, but more likely we remain in conflict with them because again, we did beat them like a drum, you don't forget that sort of thing happening to you. I think the best case scenario is that we manage to destablize them into open conflict and then support ideologically aligned factions during that conflict.
Plus, well, the Taurians are there, and even though Edward Calderon isn't as paranoid about the Davions as Thomas, that doesn't mean he actually likes them, and previously prom said the Bulls are almost as democratic/representative as we are. That means the Taurian population, and the Taurian population does not like the Federated Suns at all. In Taurian Spanish and English, I bet "Davion" has replaced "devil".
In light of the fact that we are unlikely to actually fix ties to the Federated Suns, realpolitik suggests that it would be useful for the Draconis Combine remain somewhat of a going concern on the coreward border of the Federated Suns, if only to ensure that they have more than one border to worry about. To that end, we do need to maintain at least friendly neutrality from the Lyrans and at least wary neutrality from the Free Worlds League.
Also, IIRC the appearance of the actual Capellan caste system and the decay of the Capellan system of rights and governance was something that occurred during the Succession Wars, primarily starting under IIRC Dainmar Liao. Before then, all indications suggest to me that they were one of the more "normal" Inner Sphere states.
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- Location
- USA
The big thing about the FedSuns is the problem isn't Morgan as much as the war was caused because his father was an idiot (which I still think Morgan had him killed) everything I see points to Morgan just wanting peace.
It's the growing extremist faction in the FedSuns that's looking to be a problem.
It's the growing extremist faction in the FedSuns that's looking to be a problem.
Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
To add to this it is mentioned that among the FedSuns civilians there is already a growing revanchist sentiment so that's another thing we need to be wary off and likely something the extreme right want's to take advantage off.
Also personally even if Morgan is a peace loving first prince like Geno has stated that doesn't mean his successor will be. And with the FWL being the more approachable power I rather have our peace and friend making efforts be focused on them rather then the Feds. Even if the FWL falls apart in the end that just means it's component states will be more likely to be friendly to us because we were friendly to them.
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Genolution
Hello there
The other issue is even if Morgan is more doveish, even the other establishment powerbrokers in the Federated Suns may well, uh, not be. This isn't even talking about populist revanchist sentiment, but also straight up the establishment, effectively "centrist" elements of Morgan's government will now recognize ORDI as an opponent, and a major one at that. Michael Hasek-Davion was well-liked by nobles in the Capellan March, while said March's capital, is, again, in a strategically very compromised position. I certainly don't intend on letting the regions of the Outback that broke away get eaten up by the FedSuns again, but there is going to be significant call to secure the FedSuns by doing exactly that.
Morgan may not want another war, but he's also not the only relevant aristo in New Avalon. While it might not be impossible to neutralize the Federated Suns as a threat diplomatically, it's not something that is likely enough for me to bank on.
Morgan may not want another war, but he's also not the only relevant aristo in New Avalon. While it might not be impossible to neutralize the Federated Suns as a threat diplomatically, it's not something that is likely enough for me to bank on.
Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
Fully agree with you there. Like setting aside moral reasons we are also pumping a massive amount of industrial development into them to put us even more in their good graces and grooming them as future ORDI members. Letting the Feds eat them again would mean all that industrial support was wasted and in fact will work against us strengthening our enemy. Fundamentally letting the Outback states be re absorbed back into the Feds is an unacceptable possibility among all off the ORDI powers but especially among the Helghans, the Capellans and the Taurians.
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