[ ] Preliminary plan
-[ ] All of the reparations paid by the Federated Suns will be invested on industrializing the Outback.
--[ ] Given the Concordat's and Confederation's situation they can choose between not participating on (and not being recipients of) this program or the opposite (they can keep their reparations but their worlds won't get ORDI aid). This exception may also apply to the educational program.
-[ ] All revolutionary militias will be given the choice between integrating into their state's army or returning to civilian life. The military equipment from retiring militias will be bought by ORDI and given to the new Outback states.
-[ ] All ORDI member-states will invest personnel and capital on expanding education on the Outback with the following objectives:
--[ ] All children may have access to free, public education of good quality.
--[ ] All adults may have access to literacy courses and specialization courses.
--[ ] All willing to serve as civil servants or military for the new states will be properly trained to achieve competence on their tasks.
--[ ] Educational infrastructure will, eventually, be self-sufficient (exclusively rellying on local workforce and capital to maintain itself).
Reasoning:
Industrialization: This point has already been argued in the thread so I will jump directly to the next issue.
The militias: This is a twofold solution. Those that are exhausted of fighting can simply sell their weapons and get back to their normal lives a little richer. Those that want to keep fighting can join the army (and, hopefully, the ORDI trainers will nip any budding ideas of subverting the army to enforce their ideology).
Education: The Outback has a notoriously lacking education system, this can not stand. On a pragmatic level, an educated workforce is needed for a succesful industrialization and access to education means a higher quality of life which would do wonders for the legitimacy of the newly minted states.
[ ] Preliminary plan
-[ ] All of the reparations paid by the Federated Suns will be invested on industrializing the Outback.
--[ ] Given the Concordat's and Confederation's situation they can choose between not participating on (and not being recipients of) this program or the opposite (they can keep their reparations but their worlds won't get ORDI aid). This exception may also apply to the educational program.
-[ ] All revolutionary militias will be given the choice between integrating into their state's army or returning to civilian life. The military equipment from retiring militias will be bought by ORDI and given to the new Outback states.
-[ ] All ORDI member-states will invest personnel and capital on expanding education on the Outback with the following objectives:
--[ ] All children may have access to free, public education of good quality.
--[ ] All adults may have access to literacy courses and specialization courses.
--[ ] All willing to serve as civil servants or military for the new states will be properly trained to achieve competence on their tasks.
--[ ] Educational infrastructure will, eventually, be self-sufficient (exclusively rellying on local workforce and capital to maintain itself).
Reasoning:
Industrialization: This point has already been argued in the thread so I will jump directly to the next issue.
The militias: This is a twofold solution. Those that are exhausted of fighting can simply sell their weapons and get back to their normal lives a little richer. Those that want to keep fighting can join the army (and, hopefully, the ORDI trainers will nip any budding ideas of subverting the army to enforce their ideology).
Education: The Outback has a notoriously lacking education system, this can not stand. On a pragmatic level, an educated workforce is needed for a succesful industrialization and access to education means a higher quality of life which would do wonders for the legitimacy of the newly minted states.
I'd be interested in getting @prometheus110 's opinion. Here was the plan I proposed that he verified, that will cost ORDI >35AP:
Chim division plan followed by: The Helghan Republic proposes to develop the Outback world's industries to a level equivalent to the reconstruction of the Capellan Confederation. To do this, reparations from the FS, both the money paid to the Outback and the money paid to ORDI, shall be redirected to fund such a rebuilding. The CC and TC will retain such monies as are required to rebuild the Outback worlds they have taken in. Additional funding as required to complete the rebuilding process shall be provided by all ORDI nations [1 AP/turn per polity] until reconstruction is completed. Spend 45 Influence to make this + the distribution plan happen.
I wouldn't mind adding in education but I don't know that we can afford the Influence cost. Helghan may need to go at education alone.
Ultimately if the plan is to get the Outback more on board with the Republic's filthy, filthy socialisms, it's better that the Republic have greater control over the curriculum anyway.
One major issue is that the Republic is probably the only ORDI polity that actually has the ability to provide all the educators that the Outback will need. The TC and MoC are still training their people at our universities, the CapCon is still rebuilding, and the Aurigans as usual have little to offer. Such an endeavor would probably be spearheaded and staffed by the Republic anyway.
We would be wise to toss some AP at expansion of our own system so that we can then begin feeding educators into the Outback.
[X] Plan Alternate Equity
-[X] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FAS/blue) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seda and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/red), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other Marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens. Taurian gains are marked in black while Capellan gains are marked in green.
-[X] The Helghan Republic proposes to develop the Outback world's industries to a level equivalent to the reconstruction of the Capellan Confederation. To do this, reparations from the FS, both the money paid to the Outback and the money paid to ORDI, shall be redirected to fund such a rebuilding. The CC and TC will retain such monies as are required to rebuild the Outback worlds they have taken in. Additional funding as required to complete the rebuilding process shall be provided by all ORDI nations [1 AP/turn per polity] until reconstruction is completed. Spend 45 Influence to make this + the distribution plan happen.
One major issue is that the Republic is probably the only ORDI polity that actually has the ability to provide all the educators that the Outback will need. The TC and MoC are still training their people at our universities, the CapCon is still rebuilding, and the Aurigans as usual have little to offer. Such an endeavor would probably be spearheaded and staffed by the Republic anyway.
We would be wise to toss some AP at expansion of our own system so that we can then begin feeding educators into the Outback.
I think this depends on what level of education. For tertiary education, sure, but for primary and secondary education, well, the Taurian Concordat is the polity that has a well regarded universal K-12 educational system that they extend to double digit billions of citizens, while the Republic almost ran out of primary and secondary schoolteachers halfway through building up Highwater, a planet of fewer than a million inhabitants.
We can train professors, sure—but if we want to train teachers, then the people in the Inner Sphere who are actually good at that are the Bulls.
I think this depends on what level of education. For tertiary education, sure, but for primary and secondary education, well, the Taurian Concordat is the polity that has a well regarded universal K-12 educational system that they extend to double digit billions of citizens, while the Republic almost ran out of primary and secondary schoolteachers halfway through building up Highwater, a planet of fewer than a million inhabitants.
We can train professors, sure—but if we want to train teachers, then the people in the Inner Sphere who are actually good at that are the Bulls.
While this is true, we are going to need to build the academies to train local teachers if we want to be free of feeding the entire Outback-- and for that, we will need professors.
While this is true, we are going to need to build the academies to train local teachers if we want to be free of feeding the entire Outback-- and for that, we will need professors.
Sure, but even then, the Taurians would arguably have a better pipeline for that—they're training tertiary educators, scientists, and engineers at Helghan universities, but the institutions to train primary and secondary educators on the scale of tens of billions of citizens exist in the Concordat, but not the Republic. The professors who would train a secondary educator are something the Taurians have plenty of, while the professors to train a tertiary educator are something I think the Helghans have more of.
[ ] Preliminary plan
-[ ] All of the reparations paid by the Federated Suns will be invested on industrializing the Outback.
--[ ] Given the Concordat's and Confederation's situation they can choose between not participating on (and not being recipients of) this program or the opposite (they can keep their reparations but their worlds won't get ORDI aid). This exception may also apply to the educational program.
-[ ] All revolutionary militias will be given the choice between integrating into their state's army or returning to civilian life. The military equipment from retiring militias will be bought by ORDI and given to the new Outback states.
-[ ] All ORDI member-states will invest personnel and capital on expanding education on the Outback with the following objectives:
--[ ] All children may have access to free, public education of good quality.
--[ ] All adults may have access to literacy courses and specialization courses.
--[ ] All willing to serve as civil servants or military for the new states will be properly trained to achieve competence on their tasks.
--[ ] Educational infrastructure will, eventually, be self-sufficient (exclusively rellying on local workforce and capital to maintain itself).
Reasoning:
Industrialization: This point has already been argued in the thread so I will jump directly to the next issue.
The militias: This is a twofold solution. Those that are exhausted of fighting can simply sell their weapons and get back to their normal lives a little richer. Those that want to keep fighting can join the army (and, hopefully, the ORDI trainers will nip any budding ideas of subverting the army to enforce their ideology).
Education: The Outback has a notoriously lacking education system, this can not stand. On a pragmatic level, an educated workforce is needed for a succesful industrialization and access to education means a higher quality of life which would do wonders for the legitimacy of the newly minted states.
The minimum cost for this plan + chimera's split of the systems will be about 45-52 influence. It's ~10-15 for the system split; ~30 for the industrial investments, setting up the civilian administration, and military; and then ~5-7 for the education stuff since it's not as immediately costly as industrial investments.
The more you spend the better, though, since any excess goes towards convincing people to buy into it.
We...might need to reduce how much we want the other ORDI members contribute to the industrialization in that case. Not remove, but maybe reduce. I think this plan burns basically all our influence just for the minimum cost, and it might go higher if we want people to actually buy in.
We...might need to reduce how much we want the other ORDI members contribute to the industrialization in that case. Not remove, but maybe reduce. I think this plan burns basically all our influence just for the minimum cost, and it might go higher if we want people to actually buy in.
Prom can comment, but we need the equivalent of 84 AP to boost the Outback to the CapCon level of industry. This plan would mobilize about 50AP to do so, maybe a bit more if ComStar fines the FS heavily.
My plan plus Chim's had a minimum cost of 35-40 AP. We could try to slot in either the education or administrative proposals, but I don't think we can afford to do literally everything. The trouble is that not doing so absolutely will bite us in the ass, but I don't see any way to have our cake and eat it too. Frankly, the military proposal is the one that will have the most effect.
Prom can comment, but we need the equivalent of 84 AP to boost the Outback to the CapCon level of industry. This plan would mobilize about 50AP to do so, maybe a bit more if ComStar fines the FS heavily.
My plan plus Chim's had a minimum cost of 35-40 AP. We could try to slot in either the education or administrative proposals, but I don't think we can afford to do literally everything. The trouble is that not doing so absolutely will bite us in the ass, but I don't see any way to have our cake and eat it too. Frankly, the military proposal is the one that will have the most effect.
Im thinking we'd need Admin more. They'll be dealing with a lot more than just education.
Sure they'd probs stretch their manpower without education to bring up more capable personnel, but it'd be the same if we go with education. And education only deals with one aspect of society while admin has to mamage several.
Worst case maybe we can let outback citizens study at ORDI institutions until their nations can get something better set up.
One major issue is that the Republic is probably the only ORDI polity that actually has the ability to provide all the educators that the Outback will need. The TC and MoC are still training their people at our universities, the CapCon is still rebuilding, and the Aurigans as usual have little to offer. Such an endeavor would probably be spearheaded and staffed by the Republic anyway.
We would be wise to toss some AP at expansion of our own system so that we can then begin feeding educators into the Outback.
What? We were getting warnings that our educational apparatus was overworked with like, three planets on the far end of the Periphery with tiny populations. There is no way we can educate the Outback, we can at best educate educators.
Ya just try our best to give a education of some kind but should definitely focus on making sure the new outback governments become stable and start having a economy that's not banana republic yes?
Scheduled vote count started by prometheus110 on Oct 16, 2023 at 8:00 AM, finished with 70 posts and 20 votes.
[X] Plan Alternate Equity
-[X] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FAS/blue) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seda and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/red), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other Marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens. Taurian gains are marked in black while Capellan gains are marked in green.
-[X] The Helghan Republic proposes to develop the Outback world's industries to a level equivalent to the reconstruction of the Capellan Confederation. To do this, reparations from the FS, both the money paid to the Outback and the money paid to ORDI, shall be redirected to fund such a rebuilding. The CC and TC will retain such monies as are required to rebuild the Outback worlds they have taken in. Additional funding as required to complete the rebuilding process shall be provided by all ORDI nations [1 AP/turn per polity] until reconstruction is completed. Spend 45 Influence to make this + the distribution plan happen.
[x] Attempted equity
-[x] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FIS/purple) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seada and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/blue), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens.
[X] Plan Alternate Equity https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/the-lords-of-ruin-battletech-killzone.52819/page-1004?post=29465486#post-29465486
Having lost a great many systems to the Federated Suns during the disastrous 4th Succession War, it came as little surprise to its fellow members in the Outer Rim Defence Initiative when the Capellan Confederation made clear its desire for the return of Grand Base, Tallin, Ziliang, and many other systems. With their hands full dealing with numerous other solar systems and lacking any reason to push back, the Confederation's allies agreed to the state's proposal —more than a dozen systems handed over with the stroke of a pen. Somewhat understandably, the response from residents of said worlds was both immediate and concerning, with local media swiftly inundated with messages from people fearful that their newly acquired rights would vanish into the aether when the Confederation took power. However, and much to the credit of those reformers who had so dedicated their energies in years past, these protests slowly died away over the months that followed as newly minted citizens of the Confederation woke to find themselves able to criticise the government, obtain free education, receive free healthcare, and participate in the myriad other activities now protected by the Capellan Constitution.
Similarly impacted by the Federated Suns, albeit centuries rather than decades ago, the Taurian Concordat entered the post-war negotiations looking to take back control of numerous systems lost throughout the centuries; long-held memories of FedSun brutality during the Reunification War having fuelled much of the tension between the two states over the centuries. Consisting of a long stretch of systems along the Federated Suns' Rimward border with the Concordat, the systems in question were home to countless billions of people and had been some of the first to rebel —Taurian Federalists, Neo-Jacobinists, and Maoist-Gaullists leading the charge. Generally supportive of the Taurians' claims, the Helghan Republic nonetheless proved to have some concerns about some of the Concordat's proposed changes; Republic diplomats ordered to convince the state's leadership to make minor alterations for regional stability. Over the next month and a half, the Republic's well-honed diplomatic corps called in favour after favour and put their waistlines at risk until, at long last, they managed to convince their counterparts to make more limited claims. So altered, the Concordat's allies in the ORDI quickly approved the claims, and the state received a swath of territory spanning over 300 light years.
With the primary claims of the Capellan Confederation and Taurian Concordat both dealt with, attention soon turned to the remainder of the territory gained by the Outer Rim Defence Initiative, questions over what to do with it erupting like Cadaver Beetles from roadkill. Initially caught off guard by the Republic's change in strategy leading into Operation Chernobog —something that came as a result of the Interstellar Workers Alliance's electoral successes— the rapid progress and exceptional success enjoyed by the ORDI meant that few of the Republic's allies had taken the time to consider what shape the Outback should take after the war's conclusion. While all five member governments agreed that some form of buffer state should exist between the Federated Suns and Taurian Concordat, the number, composition, and even government type of said states remained in flux even after the signing of the peace treaty that ended the conflict. Recognising that this indecision could prove fatal to regional security, the Rimward nation swiftly took advantage of the confusion to propose its own settlement plan, vast amounts of political capital spent to nudge its allies towards accepting the deal.
Recognising that the disparate beliefs of the region's rebel groups would likely not play well together in a single state, the Helghan Republic proposed that the ORDI build two independent states out of what was formerly the Federated Suns' Outback; those systems not already claimed by the Capellan Confederation and Taurian Concordat divvied up according to rebel influence. Named the Federation of Autonomous Systems, the first state proposed by the Republic would be a collection of relatively autonomous, loosely organised system governments controlled by a mix of anarchist and socialist movements whose political views would ensure cooperation without domination. The United Rimward Collective, meanwhile, was envisioned as a centralised state built around the former worlds of the United Hindu Collective —albeit as a far more secular entity— and primarily influenced by socialists and Neo-Jacobinists.
Lacking detailed plans of their own, unoffended by the Republic's proposal, and attacked with a diplomatic blitzkrieg on a scale unmatched in many years, the Republic's allies accepted the proposed deal after only a few months of back-and-forth negotiation. Well aware that these nations wouldn't be able to stand on their own two feet without substantial support in their early years, the Republic also fought hard for a pan-ORDI agreement to give over war reparations and invest in the nations. However, with the region neglected by the Federated Suns for centuries and predictions suggesting that the amount of investment required would be astronomical, support for the Republic's proposal proved far less forthcoming. Persevering despite these challenges, the Republic's diplomats nonetheless converted several influential figures to their cause and achieved a limited victory; the ORDI convinced to collectively support regional industry, the development of as-yet-undecided infrastructure, and give over 80% of the war reparations.
With the matter settled as far as apportioning was concerned, mid-May saw the Outer Rim Defence Initiative move to inform all relevant parties of the creation of both nations and dispatch personnel to begin turning treaty points into reality. Arriving at Taygeta and Firgrove, the proposed capitals of the Federation and Collective, by the end of May, these personnel began working to get buy-in for the idea. Though this endeavour proved far more time-consuming than initially expected, rebel leaders were convinced to sign onto the project, and the two states formally came into existence by June's close.
Effect
Numerous systems given over to the Confederation and Concordat.
Federation of Autonomous Systems formed out of the systems controlled by the Sin Seda, Marxist-Leninist-Kerenskyists, Trotskyist Kerenskyists, and various other rebel groups.
United Rimward Collective formed out of systems controlled by Marxist-Leninist-Kerenskyists, Neo-Jacobinists, Maoist-Gaullists, and other rebel groups.
Of the two new nations, the Federation seems to have the most buy-in right now and the least ideological tension. Neither nation has any active conflicts between the various rebel groups involved in their formation, but it's something to keep an eye on.
ORDI agrees to give 80% of war reparations over to the Federation and Collective.
ORDI agrees to invest in regional industry (this locks you into the investments and will take 84 AP to complete. The region's war reparations will also be applied until they run out).
ORDI agrees to support the region with one other investment program (to make this easy, they'll follow your lead on whatever you pick next).
If there are any issues with the previous post, you should know that I came out of a 12 hour long John Carpenter marathon, got home at 9am, slept until 2pm, and then left at 3pm to donate plasma. So, you know, yeah...
So how many great house anaylists are having anxiety attacks over how unprecedented this is? the closest equivlent is the formation of the FRR and they got nothing but table scraps compared to what the ORDI is pouring into the liberated worlds.
