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The Long Founding (Warhammer 40k)

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Dlan the Wizard said:
[] Plan: Sons of Cerberus-Champions.
-[] Chapter Name: Sons of Cerberus.
-[] Chapter Colour: White with Black Trim and details. Sons of Cerberus are also know to use heavily personalized headwear.
--[] Neophytes: Wear featureless masks before undertaking the Chapter Immolation ritual and getting accepted as Chapter members.
--[] Battle-Brothers: Wear personalized helmets, usually modified to look like a scarred Human face or canine/ursine muzzle
--[] Tech-Marines and Chaplains: Wear helmets resembling Canine o Ursine skulls.
--[] Chapter Master: Wears helmet mean to resemble the face of the Astartes-like figure, said to aid Sons of Cerberus in times of need and strike unimaginable terror in the Chapter's enemies, especially the Traitor Marines of the Black Legion. Some even theorize this figure is a member of the mysterious Legion of the Damned. Regardless of the truth, the strange apparition is only known as "The Cerberus" and it's know that a cult developed around this figure in the Chapter and there even some who claim that the Chapter named themselves after this mysterious Marine in the first place.
-[] Chapter Symbol: Three canine heads, representing both the Chapter's brotherhood as well as their eternal duty to defend both the Segmentum Obscurus and Humanity as a whole.
-[] Chapter Creed/Battle-Cry: "We kill for the Living! We kill for the Dead!"
-[] More Champions: This Chapter has more Champions than most can claim.
-[] Extra Assault Packs: The Chapter has a great number of Assault Packs, letting them retain a greater number of Assault Marines in each Company.

[] Plan: Sons of Cerberus-Deepstrikes.
-[] Chapter Name: Sons of Cerberus.
-[] Chapter Colour: White with Black Trim and details. Sons of Cerberus are also know to use heavily personalized headwear.
--[] Neophytes: Wear featureless masks before undertaking the Chapter Immolation ritual and getting accepted as Chapter members.
--[] Battle-Brothers: Wear personalized helmets, usually modified to look like a scarred Human face or canine/ursine muzzle
--[] Tech-Marines and Chaplains: Wear helmets resembling Canine o Ursine skulls.
--[] Chapter Master: Wears helmet mean to resemble the face of the Astartes-like figure, said to aid Sons of Cerberus in times of need and strike unimaginable terror in the Chapter's enemies, especially the Traitor Marines of the Black Legion. Some even theorize this figure is a member of the mysterious Legion of the Damned. Regardless of the truth, the strange apparition is only known as "The Cerberus" and it's know that a cult developed around this figure in the Chapter and there even some who claim that the Chapter named themselves after this mysterious Marine in the first place.
-[] Chapter Symbol: Three canine heads, representing both the Chapter's brotherhood as well as their eternal duty to defend both the Segmentum Obscurus and Humanity as a whole.
-[] Chapter Creed/Battle-Cry: "We kill for the Living! We kill for the Dead!"
-[] Deepstrikes: More so than even other Space Marines, this Chapter has gained a mastery of the orbital strikes Adeptus Astartes are famous for.
-[] Extra Assault Packs: The Chapter has a great number of Assault Packs, letting them retain a greater number of Assault Marines in each Company.
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Voting for both of these. I like the name and the Creed. But most importantly they got good drip. I can't bear the other plans.
 
[] Plan: Sons of Cerberus-Champions. (hippity hoppity my property/different creed&Battlecry)
-[] Chapter Name: Sons of Cerberus.
-[] Chapter Colour: White with Black Trim and details. Sons of Cerberus are also know to use heavily personalized headwear.
--[] Neophytes: Wear featureless masks before undertaking the Chapter Immolation ritual and getting accepted as Chapter members.
--[] Battle-Brothers: Wear personalized helmets, usually modified to look like a scarred Human face or canine/ursine muzzle
--[] Tech-Marines and Chaplains: Wear helmets resembling Canine o Ursine skulls.
--[] Chapter Master: Wears helmet mean to resemble the face of the Astartes-like figure, said to aid Sons of Cerberus in times of need and strike unimaginable terror in the Chapter's enemies, especially the Traitor Marines of the Black Legion. Some even theorize this figure is a member of the mysterious Legion of the Damned. Regardless of the truth, the strange apparition is only known as "The Cerberus" and it's know that a cult developed around this figure in the Chapter and there even some who claim that the Chapter named themselves after this mysterious Marine in the first place.
-[] Chapter Symbol: Three canine heads, representing both the Chapter's brotherhood as well as their eternal duty to defend both the Segmentum Obscurus and Humanity as a whole.
-[] Chapter Creed: "We will bar the gates."
-[] Chapter Battlecry: "Burn in our fiery rage!"
-[] More Champions: This Chapter has more Champions than most can claim.
-[] Extra Assault Packs: The Chapter has a great number of Assault Packs, letting them retain a greater number of Assault Marines in each Company.
 
ShadeFiende said:
Apothecaries are useful to limit the spread of abnormal diseases, handle any unusual or supernatural health issues(that aren't already being handled), or amplify the effectiveness of an already present health-related planetary trait. None of which are applicable here.
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The bears are exactly an unusual health issue. These are Horus's wolves, not Leman's.
 
w34v3r said:
The bears are exactly an unusual health issue. These are Horus's wolves, not Leman's.
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If there were unusual health issues, they'd be stated. These Bears are part of the chapter, the chapter can take care of them well enough. If it said the bears were prone to illness or injury? Then apothecaries would be advised- it did not. It stated pretty close to the opposite of that by saying they could both tangle with certain titans and have a shot at winning, and that they could wade through TYRANNID and NURGLE battle zones and consume things with no obvious repercussions. That's exceptional resistance and overall health. Not the opposite.

They may not be expecting to care for animals like Russ's kids might, but that just means they don't have a trait for it. They still know how to handle and care for their own beasts- especially after a few centuries of practice. Throwing Apothecaries into the mix adds minimal benefit a little faster than usual, with no real long term benefits that make it worthwhile- only makes them do what they'd already do, a bit faster and better with no traits boosted, no weakness shored up, and no new capabilities added.

They don't need the help, so add to their strengths since the 'weakness' you're seeing just isn't actually there.
 
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There's a bigger difference between adequate and good healthcare for animals than there is for soldiers, even before we add 40k.
 
w34v3r said:
There's a bigger difference between adequate and good healthcare for animals than there is for soldiers, even before we add 40k.
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And when you factor in extremely advanced medical technology being fairly common for Astartes- very likely including veterinary healing tech thanks to Russ's brats- and centuries of practice for the Astartes to come up with their own methods and practices on their own, you realize that all extra Apothecaries do is Get that specialized treatment sooner rather than later, with a mild boost in effectiveness.

As opposed to the Champion or Elite boosts that would cause their already high potential to reach a level that renders them threats to Daemon Princes, Abbadon, and other scary monsters like that, causing more damage to the enemy and leaving them fewer chances to organize or rally, ruining their organization, and rendering their attacks far less effective and far more costly.

The second saves more lives- including bears- overall than the apothecaries can pretend to save.

Again: no medical bonuses to synergize with on this planet, so it's not worth shoring up a pretend weakness that isn't stated anywhere and so isn't actually there.

Much like how the Apothecaries already take care of the face burns, they'll already take care of the bears- especially if these Space Marines are like others and view normal humans as beneath them- meaning they'd have better healthcare for their bears than they do for humans. Which says a lot.
 
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ShadeFiende said:
Much like how the Apothecaries already take care of the face burns, they'll already take care of the bears- especially if these Space Marines are like others and view normal humans as beneath them- meaning they'd have better healthcare for their bears than they do for humans. Which says a lot.
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I mean, I don't know if you would, but I absolutely would take better care of cutie mini-kaiju bears that can eat safely egregores of disease and despair than I would fellow Humans.
 
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Because the Horus legendary traits are basically 'space marine harder', they're the ultramarines of the traitor legions. Bears on the other hand are titan units, which is nuts in the hands of a chapter.
 
Names For Ultrabears​
  1. Leroy​
  2. Jenkins​
  3. Elvis​
  4. Maria​
  5. Alice​
  6. Ra​
  7. Celine​
  8. Celestine​
  9. Eleanor​
  10. Tom​
  11. Teddy​
  12. Paddington​
  13. Wahb​
  14. Spoots​
  15. Wojtek​
  16. Stanislaw​
 
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Hmmmmmmm I wonder if tech Marines plus artillery would let us turn the bears into walking weapons platforms? Or would marksmanship and arty be better?
 
Adding more apothecaries may be better for the chapter, to give them some much-needed medical support, especially with the whole immolation thing.
 
Do you know what i regret right now? that we did not place a Ultramarine chapter here, the image of ULTRATAMERS!! They go to different planets, tame the lethal beast there, bring them back, and unleash them against their enemies!!!

Thunderwolves
Ultrabears
Volcano turtles
Sandsharks
Glaciercrabs

What could have been...

Edit: could we try to make a chapter that tames and breeds beast to use in war?
 
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I feel like the thread is split between- marine harder *jazz hands* and the other option of titan killing fluffy good boy.
 
Somnia said:
Humans can be bears too! Also we're getting bears anyway and since their important to the Chapter's culture they'll have a lot of infrastructure set aside 5o take care of them.
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Unless we add anything to it, the care of the bears will be barely enough. Bear in mind that these are Marines who injure themselves, likely ignoring apothecaries, if anything I feel like the apothecaries will be busy keeping their brothers barely alive even without the bears.
 
dudedorey said:
Unless we add anything to it, the care of the bears will be barely enough. Bear in mind that these are Marines who injure themselves, likely ignoring apothecaries, if anything I feel like the apothecaries will be busy keeping their brothers barely alive even without the bears.
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Where is it stated that the care for the bears will be bearly enough? And at no point does it say they will be ignoring the apothecaries.
 
All the recent conversations have done is absolutely convince me that we really need to stop picking problem chapters with issues. Because it is absolutely ridiculous that people insist on spending so many resources and skill training just to deal with their issues. Personally I really don't care and think people are just seriously blowing things out of proportion and forgetting this is Warhammer.

Like for example people are making a big deal out of the face burning but it seems to have only been a problem during the process. Heck, Grimm, the best biologist and human doctor in the galaxy, doesn't think the face burning is that bad.

Basically really feels like people are overeacting and forgetting the fact that Space Marines are not normal humans and that we really shouldn't hold them to the same standard. If people say otherwise and insist that we need to spend valuable resources to fix what they see as an issue feels like it is absolutely probing my point that we really need to stop picking chapters with obvious issues if people are going to insist on trying to spend resources on trying to 'fix' issues of said chapters.

Because if we are going to say create chapters for fighting Orks or Tyranids why in the world would people vote for chapters where we would risk needing to spend resources and skills just to fix their issues and thus make them way less effective in their roles rather than just pick founding chapters Gene Seeds without the risks?
 
ShadeFiende said:
If their own self-mutilation was going to be a problem from the get-go, they'd already be given extra apothecaries just to avoid the chapter dying out.
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I want to point one thing out. We/Grimm are making that decision, and we are making it now. We have been told these guys mutilate their own faces and require intense medical and cybernetic aid to prevent some of them dying or being crippled and now we have a choice to leave them with a standard sized and equipped apothecary or making sure they have what they need to train and equip a larger than normal apothecary.

Ritualization of mutilation is a long-term health concern, that may not be a disease but is something that can be treated by the Apothecaries, even if it's only the symptom of the true problem. But there's nothing we can do about the chapter having the face of the Archtraitor himself. Now, maybe having extra Apothecaries won't have the largest impact on recruitment success, but it should have better effects than having the normal numbers.

Grimm, us the players, is the one in charge of setting up the Chapters of the Long Founding, we make the calls on what we think the Chapters need and get. And some time we get it wrong, like with the Astral Gears and their specialized ammo with randomized bolters. But I think that giant space bears and self-mutilation problems are good reasons to have extra apothecaries. And it's fine if you disagree. I don't the chapter will die out because they didn't have enough apothecaries to make sure all of their recruits survive the ritual initiation, so if that's your only concern, go ahead and vote for a different plan.
 
Red Bovine said:
All the recent conversations have done is absolutely convince me that we really need to stop picking problem chapters with issues. Because it is absolutely ridiculous that people insist on spending so many resources and skill training just to deal with their issues. Personally I really don't care and think people are just seriously blowing things out of proportion and forgetting this is Warhammer.

Like for example people are making a big deal out of the face burning but it seems to have only been a problem during the process. Heck, Grimm, the best biologist and human doctor in the galaxy, doesn't think the face burning is that bad.

Basically really feels like people are overeacting and forgetting the fact that Space Marines are not normal humans and that we really shouldn't hold them to the same standard. If people say otherwise and insist that we need to spend valuable resources to fix what they see as an issue feels like it is absolutely probing my point that we really need to stop picking chapters with obvious issues if people are going to insist on trying to spend resources on trying to 'fix' issues of said chapters.

Because if we are going to say create chapters for fighting Orks or Tyranids why in the world would people vote for chapters where we would risk needing to spend resources and skills just to fix their issues and thus make them way less effective in their roles rather than just pick founding chapters Gene Seeds without the risks?
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every chapter besides the ultramarines and raven guard and white scars have their own issues. so we only going to choose those three gene seeds now?
 
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