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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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Regency said:
Hm...I think this is the best plan if we want to focus on Hungary-Croatia in Spring/Summer campaigning season.

I trust our command councils to do Osijek in Spring. Then, after further flanking the FJ Line, strike Budapest in the Summer.
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I think that Osijek isn't necessary and that plans involving it are too slow. We already levered open one end of the FJ line (in mountains, during winter, so probably the harder end); use the river fleet to lever open the other in Pressburg in the spring, and roll up the center and into Budapest over the summer.
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
I think that Osijek isn't necessary and that plans involving it are too slow. We already levered open one end of the FJ line (in mountains, during winter, so probably the harder end); use the river fleet to lever open the other in Pressburg in the spring, and roll up the center and into Budapest over the summer.
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We accomplished that only by throwing everything else in the theater at Vienna to force Austria to strip the Alps bare, and we still only took the city through that flank. And Osijek is the continuation of that breakthrough. Why are you so impatient to waste that hard-earned opportunity in favor of a bloody slog? Trench warfare is slow, that's just how it goes.
 
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Zimmerwald1915 said:
I think that Osijek isn't necessary and that plans involving it are too slow. We already levered open one end of the FJ line (in mountains, during winter, so probably the harder end); use the river fleet to lever open the other in Pressburg in the spring, and roll up the center and into Budapest over the summer.
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Pressburg+Budapest is solid, I agree.

This then?

Random Member said:
[] Case Flamingo (Modified)
-[] Reallocate troops toward the Austrian front.
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
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Zimmerwald1915 said:
I think that Osijek isn't necessary and that plans involving it are too slow. We already levered open one end of the FJ line (in mountains, during winter, so probably the harder end); use the river fleet to lever open the other in Pressburg in the spring, and roll up the center and into Budapest over the summer.
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I think you are mistaken. Going by the adjectives in the vote options Zagreb was in fact the weakest part of the line, which makes total sense since it wasn't important in and of itself.
Nyvis said:
Pressburg+Budapest is solid, I agree.

This then?
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Doing simultaneous offensives on a front without supplies remains a poor idea.

In any case, @Etranger has confirmed in discord that campaigns will happen in the order most advantageous to us. Given that, if we are going to go hard on Austria I propose this plan:

[] Plan Turn the Flank
-[] Do not reallocate troops.
-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple)

We can swing around the FJ line in spring and take Budapest in the summer, neatly avoiding all of the fortifications in Pressburg and Budapest. We will likely lose some ground in Poland—I suspect we'll need to take back Lvov at the least—but this will almost certainly knock Austria out of the war.

Edit: Etranger has also confirmed on discord that the benefits of our previous fortification action remain in Poland, so I think we can get away with just letting the Russians run into a brick wall again.
 
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spiritualatheist said:
Doing simultaneous offensives on a front without supplies remains a poor idea.
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What front without supplies. We are no longer operating on large stockpiles like early in the war but we still have supplies thanks to our industry. And the Russian front doesn't have any offensive to distract from those so I'm not sure why them being on the same front matter as long as our logistics to the fronts are sound. Considering Austria has rail and isn't that large, I expect they are.

spiritualatheist said:
In any case, @Etranger has confirmed in discord that campaigns will happen in the order most advantageous to us. Given that, if we are going to go hard on Austria I propose this plan:

[] Plan Turn the Flank
-[] Do not reallocate troops.
-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple)

We can swing around the FJ line in spring and take Budapest in the summer, neatly avoiding all of the fortifications in Pressburg and Budapest. We will likely lose some ground in Poland—I suspect we'll need to take back Lvov at the least—but this will almost certainly knock Austria out of the war.

Edit: Etranger has also confirmed on discord that the benefits of our previous fortification action remain in Poland, so I think we can get away with just letting the Russians run into a brick wall again.
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You don't have Budapest by the summer? The summer is part of the current plan, the plans are 6 month.

I really don't like not having a defensive or offensive action in Russia. That's too much for them to mess with.
 
Nyvis said:
You don't have Budapest by the summer? The summer is part of the current plan, the plans are 6 month.

I really don't like not having a defensive or offensive action in Russia. That's too much for them to mess with
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Ah, crap, copied the wrong vote. Fixed, thank you.

As for Russia, etranger has confirmed on discord that we still get the benefit of our previous fortification action in Poland. So any repeat of last fall is going to go just about the same except the Russians have fewer troops. Konigsberg is an exception of course, but it still has some fortifications, just not as good ones, and we can freely supply or evacuate the garrison by sea if we need to.

Even if we do lose some ground in Poland, the Russians are going to pay a tremendous price and leave themselves vulnerable next turn for a more focused offensive once we take care of Austria.
 
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spiritualatheist said:
Ah, crap, copied the wrong vote. Fixed, thank you.

As for Russia, etranger has confirmed on discord that we still get the benefit of our previous fortification action in Poland. So any repeat of last fall is going to go just about the same except the Russians have fewer troops. Konigsberg is an exception of course, but it still has some fortifications, just not as good ones, and we can freely supply or evacuate the garrison by sea if we need to.

Even if we do lose some ground in Poland, the Russians are going to pay a tremendous price and leave themselves vulnerable next turn for a more focused offensive once we take care of Austria.
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I wonder how long we'll have to make up ground again in Poland after we end Austria. Britain is looming.
 
Nyvis said:
I wonder how long we'll have to make up ground again in Poland after we end Austria. Britain is looming.
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I think we'll have at least one turn to more than retake any lost ground, and I think making sure our Austrian push will absolutely destroy the Austrians this turn is most important.

That said, I could see possibly voting for any plan that doesn't go after Pressburg. We don't need to take it so why bother getting our troops killed for it?
 
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spiritualatheist said:
I think we'll have at least one turn to more than retake any lost ground, and I think making sure our Austrian push will absolutely destroy the Austrians this turn is most important.

That said, I could see possibly voting for any plan that doesn't go after Pressburg. We don't need to take it so why bother getting our troops killed for it?
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I'm down for Osijek + Budapest + Defend Poland, I think the plan is already posted somewhere.
 
[X] Plan Turn the Flank
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).

Okay, here's my plan. It's predicated on four points. First of all, our primary strategic goal at this point is the total destruction of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Russian territory is somewhat valuable to us, but we need to crush the Austrian front now and do it decisively to close the front and turn our full strength against the Russians. Given that, we need to make sure our offensive in Austria is as effective as possible, both to btfo the Austrians and to reduce our own casualties.

Next, Etranger has confirmed on Discord that our fortifications in Poland remain in place. So we can afford to let the Russians bleed over another few miles of ground while we focus everything on breaking the Austrians.

Third, Etranger has confirmed that our votes happen in the order that most benefits us. In other words, we can take Osijek and flank the Franz Josef Line and then take Budapest from there all in one turn.

Lastly, it's just fundamentally a bad idea to attack fortifications head on when you could easily turn their flank. That was how we were able to take Zagreb last turn, and this plan continues that movement to totally bypass the majority of the Austrians' fortifications. In other words, attacking Pressburg and Budapest head on is a bad idea that, even if it does work, will kill a lot of our people for no reason.

Two turns ago, we saw the Russians lose a million men by attacking into the teeth of our fortifications. Let's not repeat their mistakes.
 
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[X] Plan: Pannonian Sweep
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
 
[X] Plan Turn the Flank
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).


Sounds good.
 
[X] Plan: Pannonian Sweep
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).

I believe in Aedan's plan.
 
[X] Plan: Case Dreizack
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Klaipeda (Gold).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).
 
[X] Plan Turn the Flank
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).
 
[X] Plan: Pannonian Sweep
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
 
[X] Plan Turn the Flank
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).
 
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I think striking at Pressburg is fundamentally a bad move for us. It's heavily defended, and Pannonian Sweep proceeds to then charge at the even better defended Budapest. We do not need to take Pressburg to take Budapest, and taking Osijek bypasses all of the fortifications around the city. We can just avoid all of those casualties and have a better chance of actually taking Budapest this turn.
 
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[X] Plan Turn the Flank
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).
 
[X] Plan: Pannonian Sweep
-[X] Do not reallocate troops.
-[X] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
 
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