Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

i'm all for this so i'm gonna steal it and find some name for it

[] case blue, hungarian edition
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).
 
[] Plan: Pannonian Sweep
-[] Do not reallocate troops.
-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).

Taking Budapest will more or less collapse the Habsburg imperial project and make it possible Romania will start having a revolution. Budapest and Pressburg are mutually reinforcing offensives, as an offensive toward Budapest prevents our enemies from allocating everything to Pressburg, and once we take Pressburg it opens up the Danube for us to support an offensive against Budapest. Russia will recover and try to do some damage, so I'm not transferring troops from the east, but crippling the Habsburgs will make all our future actions much easier, and worth it to go near all out against them this turn.
I'm probably going to vote for this just because Austria is a softer target, but just so we have a "fuck Russia" alternative written down:

[] Plan: Russian Anaconda
- [] Do not reallocate troops
- [] Prepare for an offensive on the Polish front.
- [] Initiate an offensive toward Klaipeda (Gold).
- [] Initiate an offensive toward Kiev (Red).

Remove their military port, remove half their remaining industry and push the front within spitting distance of the other half, and start harassing supply coming from Sevastopol.
 
[] Plan: Pannonian Sweep
-[] Do not reallocate troops.
-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).

Taking Budapest will more or less collapse the Habsburg imperial project and make it possible Romania will start having a revolution. Budapest and Pressburg are mutually reinforcing offensives, as an offensive toward Budapest prevents our enemies from allocating everything to Pressburg, and once we take Pressburg it opens up the Danube for us to support an offensive against Budapest. Russia will recover and try to do some damage, so I'm not transferring troops from the east, but crippling the Habsburgs will make all our future actions much easier, and worth it to go near all out against them this turn.
The risk with this is that we basically ran out of strategic depth the last time the Russians tried a broad offensive in Poland, and they've had time to reorganize and rearm. Taking our Austria is incredibly valuable, but is it worth losing Lvov or Warsaw?
 
[] Plan: Supply Lines
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Klaipeda (Gold).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).

Personally, I'd favor something like the above. In Poland, it extends our supply lines forward and tries to seize the most forward-located warm water port for our own use, while guarding against counterattack. In the Balkans, it pushes through the weak point in the Imperial defenses before they can fix it to set up a future grand offensive on Budapest, while also potentially cutting our enemy off from the Adriatic coast so we can seize and use the ports there.
 
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[] Case Flamingo
-[] Reallocate troops toward the Austrian front.
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
 
Go in, take Budapest, peace out.

You dont negotiate on the backfoot and Austria will want out when they dont have any "big" centers of empire left, taking too much territory in one war can be very destabilizing (remember it all needs to be policed and organized even if we are strong-arming them into becoming sister republics).

And remember this isnt the last war, its about putting ourselves in a better position to engage in future conflics and after loosing this war Russia and Austria will have time to actually come to terms and think about what they lost.

- For Austria all the big centers of empire and most of their army.

- For Russia a significant portion of their industry.

Anyway just my two cents.
 
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We really don't want to push into Russia in spring because we will just get stuck in the mud of the rasputitsa. Our offensive target this season should be Austria.

I wonder how much we need to defend about Poland. It's probably a good idea to do so.

[] Case Flamingo
-[] Reallocate troops toward the Austrian front.
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).

I wonder if the prepare offensive or a second offensive is better. We could make a second offensive in Austria and have a wider front than if we try to rush through the middle to Budapest without hitting either end of their line.
 
Our next war will be against the Entente which will invariably have absorbed whatever remains of the league after this war. As such, we need to cripple the league as much as possible. As has been discussed on the discord, at minimum, we need to completely dismantle the Habsburg empire and liberate the Baltics if we don't want to get clapped by the Entente in 20 years time. If we just "go in, take Budapest, peace out", we'll be completely fucked in the next war.
 
Our next war will be against the Entente which will invariably have absorbed whatever remains of the league after this war. As such, we need to cripple the league as much as possible. As has been discussed on the discord, at minimum, we need to completely dismantle the Habsburg empire and liberate the Baltics if we don't want to get clapped by the Entente in 20 years time. If we just "go in, take Budapest, peace out", we'll be completely fucked in the next war.

The Habsburg empire can't survive losing Budapest and Vienna though. If we pull through Budapest this turn we can negotiate their dismemberment and there's very little they can do about it.
 
I wonder if the prepare offensive or a second offensive is better. We could make a second offensive in Austria and have a wider front than if we try to rush through the middle to Budapest without hitting either end of their line.
[] Case Flamingo (Modified)
-[] Reallocate troops toward the Austrian front.
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
 
[] Plan Simplicity
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).

The goal of this plan is to secure our Polish gains while flanking the Franz Josef Line. It forgoes spending an action specifically on preparing to take the city because I don't think we can afford to—the last Russian attack managed to push us back in Poland quite a bit, and I really don't want to risk getting pushed out of Lvov. Still, I think that the bonus we'll be getting from only doing two actions should be more than enough to take Osijek, which prepares us nicely to take Budapest next turn. It also puts us in a great position to take advantage of the Russians having to reorganize next turn if they shove their hand into a meat grinder again.
 
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I wonder if the prepare offensive or a second offensive is better. We could make a second offensive in Austria and have a wider front than if we try to rush through the middle to Budapest without hitting either end of their line
I suspect this is going to run right into shell limitations. Splitting our assaults is just going to further dilute our weight of artillery imo.
 
The Habsburg empire can't survive losing Budapest and Vienna though. If we pull through Budapest this turn we can negotiate their dismemberment and there's very little they can do about it.

Right, but even then we still have other war goals, namely Klaipeda and Riga, which mean we can't just "peace out" after taking Budapest this turn, as Drieder seems to be suggesting. My last post was specifically in response to Drieder's post, but I forgot to hit reply, sorry.
 
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I suspect this is going to run right into shell limitations. Splitting our assaults is just going to further dilute our weight of artillery imo.

Austria's armies have been refilled with green conscripts and must be very tight on supply due to them losing a lot of their industry. I'm pretty sure we'll still have a solid artillery advantage.

[] Case Flamingo (Modified)
-[] Reallocate troops toward the Austrian front.
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).

Either this or Budapest + Osijek, which might be more manageable in a single turn? Pressburg will then be bottled in if Austria doesn't surrender.
 
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[] Plan Simplicity
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).

The goal of this plan is to secure our Polish gains while flanking the Franz Josef Line. It forgoes spending an action specifically on preparing to take the city because I don't think we can afford to—the last Russian attack managed to push us back in Poland quite a bit, and I really don't want to risk getting pushed out of Lvov. Still, I think that the bonus we'll be getting from only doing two actions should be more than enough to take Osijek, which prepares us nicely to take Budapest next turn. It also puts us in a great position to take advantage of the Russians having to reorganize next turn if they shove their hand into a meat grinder again.
This is an incredibly cautious move. There's being concerned about shell limitations and there's trying only a single offensive against probably the individually least important from the list of targets we have available. And this is for a turn that now last six months. That's allowing the League to get breathing room that we have no reason to allow them to get. We absolutely do not have to, and should not, slow down this much.
 
Turns are six months now, this turn includes summer.

Damn, that's kinda annoying since you would plan very differently for both when fighting Russia.

Still, an offensive that runs into dangerous conditions for half of our time sounds more risky than trying to finish off Austria.
 
Damn, that's kinda annoying since you would plan very differently for both when fighting Russia.

Still, an offensive that runs into dangerous conditions for half of our time sounds more risky than trying to finish off Austria.
Our commanders haven't been made into idiots, if the offensive is in an area where the mud is too severe then it'll be done during the summer portions of the turn. Otherwise your position is one that fundamentally rules out operations in Russia ever being a thing, which definitely isn't Etranger's intent.
 
Our commanders haven't been made into idiots, if the offensive is in an area where the mud is too severe then it'll be done during the summer portions of the turn. Otherwise your position is one that fundamentally rules out operations in Russia ever being a thing, which definitely isn't Etranger's intent.
Great point. Hmmm then for this turn is setting up an eventual strong offensive against Budapest:
[] Plan: Seasons of War
-[] Do not reallocate troops.
Not needed for these twin offense/1 defense plan IMO

-[] Initiate an offensive toward Minsk (Green).
Motivated mainly by the fact that - as Sabrina pointed out - our command councils has been and will likely to remain reliably capable and exploit Summer asthe only season where attacking into the region does not make our troops face rasputitsa

-[] Initiate an offensive toward Osijek (Purple).
This option has great value for my subsequent fall/winter plan due to this part; "seizing it will serve to flank Budapest and put the Allied armies far behind the Franz Joseph Line, where defenses are much less built-up". Since we could take 3 actions without logistical penalties now, this attack can be pursued while also defending Austria-Bohemia (see below).

-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Austria.
Austria may use these "seasons of war" to try closing in on Vienna, so I think this is necessary to deny them that. They also paused from attacking last turn and are bolstered by League divisions & reopened supply lines, so could move to strike there this turn.

The above plan's success would feed into my approach for the fall/winter turn:
[] Plan: Bypass the FJ Line
-[] Do not reallocate troops.
The "prepare attack" option allows us to refrain from picking this during the Sep 1899-Feb 1900 turn IMO.

-[] Initiate an offensive toward Klaipeda (Gold).
Again, I concur with Sabrina's trust in our command councils and believe our commanders would opt for this strike to be done in Winter, when they could catch the remaining Russian Baltic naval forces in their last warm-water port there - Klaipeda/Memel

-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Austrian front.
A necessity for the next, critical move against the Habsburgs below;

-[] Initiate an offensive toward Budapest (Pink).
Should we do this in the subsequent seasons after taking Osijek, we would be in prime position to attack it from far less defended regions of the Franz Joseph Line. This would be another step in felling the Habsburgs, bonus if it actually does them in. Edit: I also trust our commanders to initiate this offensive in the Fall rather than Winter.
 
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Our commanders haven't been made into idiots, if the offensive is in an area where the mud is too severe then it'll be done during the summer portions of the turn. Otherwise your position is one that fundamentally rules out operations in Russia ever being a thing, which definitely isn't Etranger's intent.

That's a valid point.

On the other hand that's still half the time period cut from the offensive and two of our Russian targets are really distant. This leaves Klaipeda.

I guess if we want to go for Lithuania + one target in Austria I'm down.
 
That's a valid point.

On the other hand that's still half the time period cut from the offensive and two of our Russian targets are really distant. This leaves Klaipeda.

I guess if we want to go for Lithuania + one target in Austria I'm down.
We could theoretically go all-in on a push to Kiev, to seize Russia's breadbasket and cut it back off from Austria. It even has the advantage of being unexpected! :V

(no, seriously:
[7:03 PM]Sabrina:
> [] Plan: When I Cut You Off, You Stay Cut Off, Bitches
> -[] Prepare for an offensive on the Polish front.
> -[] Initiate an offensive toward Kiev (Red).
Cut Russia back off from Austria.
[7:06 PM]Etranger: a dedicated push on Kiev would have the advantage of sheer novelty
[7:06 PM]Etranger: that isn't even a joke
[7:07 PM]Marxist-Irrigationist: Talk about damning with faint praise.
[7:07 PM]Etranger: no I'm serious, sometimes it's useful to attack where they can't conceive of it happening
)
 
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My concern about Kyiv is it might threaten the Entente's ability to sell shit to Russia, and that's what's keeping them from butting in?

That said, I am strongly in favour of attacking Russia this season, and then pushing on Hungary next. Hungary's less of an issue with mud, and Pressburg/Budapest barely drop below freezing in the winter, so we could still conduct offensives more easily there than Minsk or Klaipeda (which are colder on average).

Seasons of War seems well thought-out, and while I worry that it's splitting our efforts too much, I doubt people would accept solely pushing on MInsk this turn :D
 
Given the Entente's dovish cooing as of the update (even if it isn't loud enough yet to overwhelm the cha-ching of the cash register), I do think we're on a clock of about three turns (a year and a half, including this turn) at most, and should be looking to seize the territory we want to leverage into our political objectives at a mid-1900 peace conference. Our paramount political objectives are dissolving the Habsburg monarchy and liberating Poland, with objectives like revolutionizing Romania and liberating Lithuania being secondary. If we want to dissolve, and for the peace to confirm the dissolution of, the Habsburg monarchy, we must occupy all or substantially all of its territory, and certainly each of its constituent kingdoms' capitals (read: political and administrative centers), by the end of 1899. Likewise, if we want to liberate the entirety of Poland within the borders the post-Vienna and post-Five Weeks War settlements gave it (basically, the Congress Kingdom, plus Galicia, plus Prussia through Memel), plus Bialystok since the Russians already offered it.

Militarily, how do we do that? I don't think we can while maintaining two active fronts, seeing as we are still outnumbered in Russia and given that Russia is quickly learning the necessary lessons to make use of what advantages it has on the defensive. Which means closing out one front as quickly as possible while giving ground on the other, then once the first front is closed retaking our losses on the second front and then some with the full weight of our armies. The only power that can be knocked out of the war quickly is Austria, and only if we use the utmost of our efforts there, now.
 
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We could theoretically go all-in on a push to Kiev, to seize Russia's breadbasket and cut it back off from Austria. It even has the advantage of being unexpected! :V

(no, seriously:
[7:03 PM]Sabrina:
> [] Plan: When I Cut You Off, You Stay Cut Off, Bitches
> -[] Prepare for an offensive on the Polish front.
> -[] Initiate an offensive toward Kiev (Red).
Cut Russia back off from Austria.
[7:06 PM]Etranger: a dedicated push on Kiev would have the advantage of sheer novelty
[7:06 PM]Etranger: that isn't even a joke
[7:07 PM]Marxist-Irrigationist: Talk about damning with faint praise.
[7:07 PM]Etranger: no I'm serious, sometimes it's useful to attack where they can't conceive of it happening
)

If we're doing this I'd want another offensive to do on the first half of the time period when Ukraine is still full of mud.

Actually we could just ignore Austria, do Klaipeda early in the season (it's probably less muddy, the Baltics have different conditions), bait them into thinking that was our main thrust, then hit Kiev once the mud settles.

[] Plan: disguise, deceive, dumbfound
-[] Reallocate troops toward the Polish front.
-[] Prepare for an offensive on the Polish front.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Klaipeda (Gold).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Kiev (Red).


Sure, this doesn't have the promise of knocking out Austria quickly, but it also doesn't charge into the fortified defense line. And it's funny.
 
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