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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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[x] Plan: Case Shield and Dagger
- [x] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
- [x] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
- [x] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
- [x] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
- [x] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

[x] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.
 
[X] Plan: Long Promised Vienna by Christmas
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[X] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

[x] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.
 
[x]Case Shield and Dagger
-[x] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[x] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[x] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[x] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[x] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
[X] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.
 
[x]Case Shield and Dagger
-[x] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[x] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[x] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[x] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[x] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
[X] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.
 
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[X] Plan: Long Promised Vienna by Christmas
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[X] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

[X] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.
 
[X] Plan: Case Shield and Dagger
[X] [BOHEMIA] Defer a decision until after the war.

I'm honestly confused why so many people are hell bent on annexing Bohemia, it only makes us look bad on the international stage and there isn't really a downside to just waiting it out.
 
[x]Case Shield and Dagger
-[x] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[x] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[x] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[x] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[x] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

[x] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.

DegenWeeb said:
I'm honestly confused why so many people are hell bent on annexing Bohemia, it only makes us look bad on the international stage and there isn't really a downside to just waiting it out.
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The people of Bohemia asked, isn't that reason enough?
 
Nyvis said:
The people of Bohemia asked, isn't that reason enough?
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The election was rushed, I am not convinced that a good majority of the population wants it, the Sudeten Germans undoubtedly would be in favour but what about the rest of the Czechs?




While this map is from the 1930s and not the late 1890s, there wouldn't be much of a change within Bohemia proper until the population transfers after ww2. There is an incredible heavy bias here and I would prefer to let the Czechs have a bit more time to think about this before rushing in with this and causing us issues later down the line.
 
DegenWeeb said:
The election was rushed, I am not convinced that a good majority of the population wants it, the Sudeten Germans undoubtedly would be in favour but what about the rest of the Czechs?
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The Sudeten Germans don't have a majority, this must have buy in from the Czechs. It's also obvious it does have that buy in considering they asked for ironclad protections for Czech nationality within Germany.

I think this kind of revolutionary enthusiasm should be encouraged and channelled into helping them rebuild themselves on republican and socialist lines, not spurned.
 
To be honest, I think people are a bit too hung up on "revolutionary fervor" when other factors like "conscious of their potentially fatal divisions as an independent republic, fearful of German separatism, or otherwise enacting a carefully-designed stratagem to commit the Republic to their continued liberty" are also stated as a possible reason for the Bohemia's annexation request. So I think the fear of us pulling a Poland on them or using German minority as a pretext for intervention mean the Czechs decide to request annexation on their own term.

But then again, I am all for the world federation, soooo

[x] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.

Maybe we can consider changing the name of the republic some time after the war?

[x]Case Shield and Dagger
-[x] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[x] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[x] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[x] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[x] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
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Nyvis said:
The Sudeten Germans don't have a majority, this must have buy in from the Czechs. It's also obvious it does have that buy in considering they asked for ironclad protections for Czech nationality within Germany.
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I never claimed that the Sudeten Germans are a majority? I only said that the Germans would undoubtedly be in favour of being annexed by a German state and that I am unsure about the Czech majority. The Czechs are also asking for the bare minimum, they already had their language and culture protected within Austria-Hungary. The major benefit I can see from an annexation is the Czechs no longer getting fucked over from local governance by the German minority.

Nyvis said:
I think this kind of revolutionary enthusiasm should be encouraged and channelled into helping them rebuild themselves on republican and socialist lines, not spurned
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Then a free and independent Czech Republic, or hell a Czechoslovakia if you will, would be a much better idea than simply annexing the Czech heartlands. It would also showcase any other minority within the Russian or Austrian empires that we do intend to liberate them and allow them to have their own states. Sure, the Czech parliament asked for this but it still looks bad from an outsiders perspective.
 
DegenWeeb said:
I never claimed that the Sudeten Germans are a majority? I only said that the Germans would undoubtedly be in favour of being annexed by a German state and that I am unsure about the Czech majority. The Czechs are also asking for the bare minimum, they already had their language and culture protected within Austria-Hungary. The major benefit I can see from an annexation is the Czechs no longer getting fucked over from local governance by the German minority.
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How can they have "their language and culture protected within Austria-Hungary" if they are "getting fucked over from local governance by the German minority"? They're absolutely looking for more ironclad guarantees that this won't happen again.

And my point is that since the Sudeten Germans aren't a majority and wouldn't have asked for those guarantees anyway, the delegation making the annexation demand must have significant buy in from the Czech population.

DegenWeeb said:
Then a free and independent Czech Republic, or hell a Czechoslovakia if you will, would be a much better idea than simply annexing the Czech heartlands. It would also showcase any other minority within the Russian or Austrian empires that we do intend to liberate them and allow them to have their own states. Sure, the Czech parliament asked for this but it still looks bad from an outsiders perspective.
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This makes absolutely zero sense as an answer to what you quoted. I'm worried about squandering revolutionary enthusiasm by shutting down the first demand they make and making them wait in limbo until the end of the war. An independent Czech republic now is just not an option. It's accept the annexation or leave them stuck to bleed out enthusiasm until we finish off Austria.

Worries about an outsider perspective are completely orthogonal to my concern here.
 
Nyvis said:
How can they have "their language and culture protected within Austria-Hungary" if they are "getting fucked over from local governance by the German minority"? They're absolutely looking for more ironclad guarantees that this won't happen again.
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The language is protected, the official languages within the Bohemian and Moravian crownlands are Czech, German and Latin. Areas with a Czech Majority, for example Prague, have the local day to day administration done in Czech. There are Czech schools and universities (though presently most are seen as inferior to German institutions with the exception of a few in Moravia).

Nyvis said:
This makes absolutely zero sense as an answer to what you quoted. I'm worried about squandering revolutionary enthusiasm by shutting down the first demand they make and making them wait in limbo until the end of the war. An independent Czech republic now is just not an option. It's accept the annexation or leave them stuck to bleed out enthusiasm until we finish off Austria.
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My point was that an Independent Czech state would have far more revolutionary fervour if independent rather than being annexed by Germany.
And it wouldn't be shutting them down, it's simply moving the issue to a later date when things are less hectic and more peaceful so that cooler heads can prevail. If we were to immediately say no, we aren't annexing the Czechs, that would be shutting them down.

Why isn't an independent Czech state on the table? There is absolutely nothing preventing us from establishing a free Czech State or Czechoslovakia and simply formalising it within the peace deal.
 
DegenWeeb said:
The language is protected, the official languages within the Bohemian and Moravian crownlands are Czech, German and Latin. Areas with a Czech Majority, for example Prague, have the local day to day administration done in Czech. There are Czech schools and universities (though presently most are seen as inferior to German institutions with the exception of a few in Moravia).
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This is my read but I expect what they're asking as guarantees from us now is a lot more expansive and less limited to Czech majority areas.

DegenWeeb said:
My point was that an Independent Czech state would have far more revolutionary fervour if independent rather than being annexed by Germany.
And it wouldn't be shutting them down, it's simply moving the issue to a later date when things are less hectic and more peaceful so that cooler heads can prevail. If we were to immediately say no, we aren't annexing the Czechs, that would be shutting them down.

Why isn't an independent Czech state on the table? There is absolutely nothing preventing us from establishing a free Czech State or Czechoslovakia and simply formalising it within the peace deal.
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You say "less hectic", "more peaceful", "cooler heads", I hear extinguished revolutionary fervour. The part of the issue that kills their momentum isn't annexation versus independence, it's doing it now versus after a peace treaty. You aren't shutting down the pro annexation movement, but you're shutting down the revolutionary government's first big decision as a nascent democracy.

And the immediate option is annexation rather than independence because it's what they asked for. We can justify giving them something else if it's part of the peace process since that would be negotiated, but answering their demand for immediate annexation with immediate independence would be based on neither their own democratic will nor diplomacy.
 
[x] Case Shield and Dagger
- [x] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
- [x] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
- [x] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
- [x] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
- [x] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
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