Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

Can anyone explain what these three are?
Labor recognition is the program of materially compensating labor previously thought of as free (i.e., domestic, caring, etc. - not incidentally typically thought of as "women's work").
Labor vouchers are a replacement for money as a medium of exchange, fixing the value of a quantity of labor time and entitling the bearer to withdraw the equivalent value in goods from the general fund, but not from other persons. Also they expire after a while to prevent them from functioning as a store of value and accumulating.
National personal autonomy amounts to a program of registering citizens by nationality, and apportioning social services according to (or, implicitly, devolving social services to be funded and run by) the nationalities. It is meant to decouple government from locality.
 
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wow, the dissolution of the socialists has fucked us hard. the only non beligerent party is the coops.
so far, the best thought out plan seems to be the communist one, so im guessing that i might have to compromise to being beligerent in the end.
Also they expire after a while to prevent them from functioning as a store of value and accumulating.
this is so dumb, rather than accumulate easily fungible assets, people will accumulate low depreaciating goods in order to retain wealth. leading to a less liquid economy and resources being missalocated due to their percieved scarcity rather than their usefulness.

and to the people who will say that i dont know what im talking about, this is the same phenomenon experienced in hyperinflationary economies. source im argentinian

also, how does things like loans work in a labour voucher economy? and why are we even equalizing pay for different work?, we are just creating incentives to keep people inefficient.
you could make a min wage scheme with productivity bonuses if you wanted a better approach. but its just simpler to bring back money and put on a wealth tax after accumulating past a certain ammount. but for the love of anarchism allow people to save by themselves rather than enslave them into using state instruments to finance themselves.
 
this is so dumb, rather than accumulate easily fungible assets, people will accumulate low depreaciating goods in order to retain wealth. leading to a less liquid economy and resources being missalocated due to their percieved scarcity rather than their usefulness.

It will lead to a less liquid non voucher economy, which is good because we want to replace it by the voucher economy. The goal is to transition towards an economy where production is decided for use, not dictated by exchange value. You'll make things or provide services because society has decided they're valuable, not because the price is right, which means you get to make them for their own usefulness rather than get alienated from what you do as it becomes merely a way to print money.

Concerns about liquidity like we're still talking about a market economy are misplaced. We aren't. If something is not being handled properly, you take it up to your local participative planning committee and they either deal with it locally or bring it up to the planning office above them.

People have no useful reason to want to store wealth anyway, we have ways to fund bigger endeavors collectively and we have care for unforeseen situations like health issues and no longer being able to work, as well as a pension system.

also, how does things like loans work in a labour voucher economy? and why are we even equalizing pay for different work?, we are just creating incentives to keep people inefficient.
you could make a min wage scheme with productivity bonuses if you wanted a better approach. but its just simpler to bring back money and put on a wealth tax after accumulating past a certain ammount. but for the love of anarchism allow people to save by themselves rather than enslave them into using state instruments to finance themselves.

Why do loans when we can just do grants. We're not in this to profit from the workers.

The way to push back if it feels too statist is to make more self organizing ways to provide for people's demands so they can just solve it before it reaches the state.
 
[] The Radical Party
-[] The Goal is a World of Sister Republics
--[]Continue to expand and arm the network of Polish revolutionaries. Assure them, and skeptical Poles doing organic work, that the new Germany will support them in actions against Russian tyranny.
--[] Provide covert arms and advisors to support the revolutionaries in Korea.
--[] Utilizing experience gained from building our first run of major warships, order a new run of improved warships for operations in the Baltic, as well as a couple of ocean going capital ships for more experience. These will be for our navy, not some foreign sale scheme.
--[] Promote public speakers and community organizers in expat communities who wish to free their homelands as independent republics on the German model, rather than an all consuming world republic.
--[] Organize extensive and regular cultural exchange programs with our allies to showcase the great potential of separate republics working together.
--[] Create a formal naval academy to institutionalize the information and experience we will gain through the utilization of our new navy.
 
this is so dumb, rather than accumulate easily fungible assets, people will accumulate low depreaciating goods in order to retain wealth. leading to a less liquid economy and resources being missalocated due to their percieved scarcity rather than their usefulness.
They would be hard pressed to accumulate low-depreciating goods because the way goods & services are allocated & exchanged is linked to the fact that voucher benefits is akin to a heavily expanded ration book that includes "luxuries"* - though rather than restrictions of currency spending it eliminates currency altogether - which apportions how much of *any* goods you can have depending on whether you're labor contribution to prevent accumulation. That kind of hoarding aleeady signals black market currency participation or partaking in graft, & that's the kind of violation which will cause the hammer to come down on anyone even outside a Red state

Ofc the system would work much better by coopting digital technology at the level of early credit/debit card system at minimum, but that's outside the quest's scope.

also, how does things like loans work in a labour voucher economy? and why are we even equalizing pay for different work?, we are just creating incentives to keep people inefficient.
As a Red-Gold republic we're not in a business of creating a culture where people's worth are appraised by a notion of "effectiveness" through incentivizing the "meritocratic" rat race to the bottom. Anyways, resource grant for collective initiatives by state banks, SOEs, & credit unions as facilitators to cooperatives and communities would be one of the possible forms of implementation.

but for the love of anarchism allow people to save by themselves rather than enslave them into using state instruments to finance themselves.
The partially-anarchist cooperatives are notably the one party working to decentralize voucher administration. If you want to actually hold up to your "for the love of anarchism", that could be a better solution than resurrecting competition-to-bankruptcy & competitive-incentivized payshare cuts.
 
--[] Increase the secret provision of funding, arms and ideological support to the rebels in Korea, using pre-existing channels and with an emphasis on keeping the revolt anti-monarchist and truly revolutionary. Cooperate with Chinese and Japanese covert efforts if they exist to the extent it doesn't undermine revolutionary ideals. Also work to to provide funding, arms and ideological support to anti monarchist and revolutionary groups within Japan and China.

@Nevis @The Laurent @Nyvis tried to combine the 2 plans here what I came up with thoughts?
I feel like this one is 2 planks rather than one. One focusing on the Korean revolt and one focusing on creating revolts in East Asia more generally. For the plan as a whole I don't dislike it but I feel like it's trying to cram in too much for one term. I like your idea of putting large coops on war footing, maybe I will look at that again next plan.
 
The partially-anarchist cooperatives are notably the one party working to decentralize voucher administration. If you want to actually hold up to your "for the love of anarchism", that could be a better solution than resurrecting competition-to-bankruptcy & competitive-incentivized payshare cuts.

We should also work on decommodifying things by simply making them free. Either through national programs or by creating enough room for locals to build their own solutions to their demand.

If vouchers end up only paying for allocation of scarce and luxurious resources or imports we have to produce matching exports for to afford, that'd be great.

I feel like this one is 2 planks rather than one. One focusing on the Korean revolt and one focusing on creating revolts in East Asia more generally. For the plan as a whole I don't dislike it but I feel like it's trying to cram in too much for one term. I like your idea of putting large coops on war footing, maybe I will look at that again next plan.

I kept the war footing plank in my planning document, it's not lost or forgotten!
 
I kept the war footing plank in my planning document, it's not lost or forgotten!
Sorry but I am being a contrarian and voting for my own plan anyway. I am splitting the party to form the Food Faction of the Cooperative Party! It'll probably die in flames when i can't think of any more planks next turn but c'est la vie.
 
Sorry but I am being a contrarian and voting for my own plan anyway. I am splitting the party to form the Food Faction of the Cooperative Party! It'll probably die in flames when i can't think of any more planks next turn but c'est la vie.

Makes sense this would be a tendency with our rural base. I'm not mad about some internal contestation, we're not the Communist Party :V
 
@Nyvis What is your plan this turn? Maybe investment in Art?

I was wondering are you willing to create a centralized socialist historical council to regulate historical and archeological research and combat imperial intellectual apparatus?
 
@Nyvis What is your plan this turn? Maybe investment in Art?

I was wondering are you willing to create a centralized socialist historical council to regulate historical and archeological research and combat imperial intellectual apparatus?

Last iteration I did on the plan is there:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest Original - Alt. History

We don't know how reactionary dominated the supreme court currently is. You might get this by arguing you're regulating interstate commerce if it's staffed by sympathetic justices. I think this is necessary if we want to assist American coops since that legal structure barely exist right now...

I think what you're proposing would fit better with the Federation Party than with us.
 
@Nyvis What is your plan this turn? Maybe investment in Art?

I was wondering are you willing to create a centralized socialist historical council to regulate historical and archeological research and combat imperial intellectual apparatus?

Last iteration I did on the plan is there:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest Original - Alt. History

We don't know how reactionary dominated the supreme court currently is. You might get this by arguing you're regulating interstate commerce if it's staffed by sympathetic justices. I think this is necessary if we want to assist American coops since that legal structure barely exist right now...

I think what you're proposing would fit better with the Federation Party than with us.

I would have added it as a plank to the platform we're fiddling with if we didn't have opportunities in Korea, Eastern Euope, and Korea to exploit
 
[] The Federation Party
-[] Cultural Ascendancy + Intrigue
--[]Continue to expand and invest in Austrian network and use intelligence apparatus to penetrate Austria convertly while make sure agents are properly indrotrinated and self sufficient. They should be able to generate wealth though investments so that they can expand further using those funds.
--[] Provide covert arms and advisors to support the revolutionaries in Korea. Expand intelligence apparatus in Korea to get information regarding current situation and future possibilities.
--[] unify various Intelligence organizations of Germany, Italy and Spain under one umbrella. Expand its reach to linkup with various intelligence apparatus of revolutionary and anti colonial movements.
--[] Creation of socialist Historical council consists of various socialist and marxist historians and archeologists recruited from all over allied and anti colonial nations to conduct research and invent proper methodologies. Council will combat imperialist Historians of League, French and British intellectual circle. It can act as tool to combat various racist, pseudoscientific theories and xenophobia though proper research and facts.
--[] investment in Art, architecture and various art related subjects to promote artistic talents of Germany.
--[] creation of Department of religious affairs to interact with various religions of Germany and promote more socialistic aspects of each religion and organize interfaith conferences using department as host to promote religious harmony.

Thoughts?
 
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People have no useful reason to want to store wealth anyway, we have ways to fund bigger endeavors collectively and we have care for unforeseen situations like health issues and no longer being able to work, as well as a pension system.
why does the state get to decide if we are able to store wealth or not. humans want for luxury is infinite, but not necessarily on a limited time period.
let me give you an example:
your daughters 18th birthday is coming up in a couple of months, seeing as its an important event, you decide to save up some money for 3 months prior in order to afford some expensive mcguffin.
now we do the same with labor vouchers, you try to save, but you cant because they expire. so you decide to spend on frivolous things and when the bday comes up you have 3 options
1) lame gift(for obvious reasons we avoid this)
2)buy expensive gift (and live frugally that month even though you could have lived a better life having only sacrificed piecemeal rather than lump sum)
3) trade useless knicknacks bought in the previous two months in exchange for the gift (which will create an unecesary burden to transact, as well as limit legal protections on the trade and encouraging a black market)

all of this solutions present unoptimun outcomes. if you want to keep using vouchers thats fine(as a ration book sort of thing) but just be more lenient in regards to saving. say a 3-5 year window with depreciation starting at 3 and going to 0 at five. or some scheme along those lines.


As a Red-Gold republic we're not in a business of creating a culture where people's worth are appraised by a notion of "effectiveness" through incentivizing the "meritocratic" rat race to the bottom. Anyways, resource grant for collective initiatives by state banks, SOEs, & credit unions as facilitators to cooperatives and communities would be one of the possible forms of implementation.

the rat race you are referring to makes no sense. this are coops we are talking about, increase in efficiencies leads to better profit which are directly enjoyed by the workers.no capitalist bloodsucking middleman is present.

efficiency and productivity is the name of the game as increases in efficiency leads to using up less resources for the same output, (wasting less of the precious resources produced by our fellow germans up the production chain) and productivity just means working less to do the same. if we want to institute the workers paradise, how is it that we are helping our workers by keeping them unproductive and therefore making them labour unnecessarily.

if there is no incentive to being a good labourer then why are people trying to do good labor?
(note my specific use of the word labour rather than work, the difference being that work is by definition an artifice of human value and that labour is nothing more that repeating alienating tasks)
what we want is for people to trancend labour and to do good work. without incentives to help people trancend labour by being good workers then what we are creating is a clientelistic state aparatus that deigns some workers to be more worthy of their grant allotment than others. and your solution is to what?agitate and complain to your local representative?
just let the smarter coops earn more and allot the resources to the underperformers to equalize the field if you have to. but stop let us stop pretending that meritocracy is bad when we have an equal opportunity to achieve success(as you have stated, all needs are provided for and they are provided for equally) so why is it that we are "liberating" workers by punishing them for being good at what they do.

im not advocating for laissez faire capitalism here, but autonomous coops unburdened by statist instruments. lets build a society where everyone starts off equal, let the smart ones succeed and the not so smart ones get a bit of a hand so that they dont fall behind too much. equallity is good, but complete homogeniety is destructive. we can have controlled inequality so long as its not generational (which we already have the institutions to prevent)

P.S. im not sure if the labour vs work thing works in english, in spanish the root meanings in latin of the direct translations have that, so i tried my best but seeing as english is 3 languages in a trenchcoat with only 1 third having commonality with spanish, i doubt it will work
 
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why does the state get to decide if we are able to store wealth or not. humans want for luxury is infinite, but not necessarily on a limited time period.
let me give you an example:
your daughters 18th birthday is coming up in a couple of months, seeing as its an important event, you decide to save up some money for 3 months prior in order to afford some expensive mcguffin.
now we do the same with labor vouchers, you try to save, but you cant because they expire. so you decide to spend on frivolous things and when the bday comes up you have 3 options
1) lame gift(for obvious reasons we avoid this)
2)buy expensive gift (and live frugally that month even though you could have lived a better life having only sacrificed piecemeal rather than lump sum)
3) trade useless knicknacks bought in the previous two months in exchange for the gift (which will create an unecesary burden to transact, as well as limit legal protections on the trade and encouraging a black market)

all of this solutions present unoptimun outcomes. if you want to keep using vouchers thats fine(as a ration book sort of thing) but just be more lenient in regards to saving. say a 3-5 year window with depreciation starting at 3 and going to 0 at five. or some scheme along those lines.

I don't see your example as a good way to run a society. If something would require you to save for months to get access to it, I don't think it should just be priced high, I think it should be made available through other methods, like a wait list. Making people save to access goods is not very healthy to me and I don't think pricing is an universal answer to handling luxuries. What kind of gift would require a family to tighten its budgets for months and how can we solve the issue of providing young adults this kind of products without that painful process?

if there is no incentive to being a good labourer then why are people trying to do good labor?

Because they enjoy it? Because it's their process and they take pride in it? Not doing good work unless paid for it is an artifact of working under a boss who controls the process and pockets the difference. There's no reason why monetary reward would be the only motivation to do good work

im not advocating for lazzie faire capitalism here, but autonomous coops unburdened by statist instruments.

Markets and incentive systems aren't magical self running tools of freedom. They're structures constraining the people in them, easily as much as our attempts at moving towards democratic planning.
 
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the rat race you are referring to makes no sense. this are coops we are talking about, increase in efficiencies leads to better profit which are directly enjoyed by the workers.no capitalist bloodsucking middleman is present.

efficiency and productivity is the name of the game as increases in efficiency leads to using up less resources for the same output, (wasting less of the precious resources produced by our fellow germans up the production chain) and productivity just means working less to do the same. if we want to institute the workers paradise, how is it that we are helping our workers by keeping them unproductive and therefore making them labour unnecessarily.

if there is no incentive to being a good labourer then why are people trying to do good labor?
(note my specific use of the word labour rather than work, the difference being that work is by definition an artifice of human value and that labour is nothing more that repeating alienating tasks)
what we want is for people to trancend labour and to do good work. without incentives to help people trancend labour by being good workers then what we are creating is a clientelistic state aparatus that deigns some workers to be more worthy of their grant allotment than others. and your solution is to what?agitate and complain to your local representative?
just let the smarter coops earn more and allot the resources to the underperformers to equalize the field if you have to. but stop let us stop pretending that meritocracy is bad when we have an equal opportunity to achieve success(as you have stated, all needs are provided for and they are provided for equally) so why is it that we are "liberating" workers by punishing them for being good at what they do.

im not advocating for laissez faire capitalism here, but autonomous coops unburdened by statist instruments. lets build a society where everyone starts off equal, let the smart ones succeed and the not so smart ones get a bit of a hand so that they dont fall behind too much. equallity is good, but complete homogeniety is destructive. we can have controlled inequality so long as its not generational (which we already have the institutions to prevent)

P.S. im not sure if the labour vs work thing works in english, in spanish the root meanings in latin of the direct translations have that, so i tried my best but seeing as english is 3 languages in a trenchcoat with only 1 third having
Coops are capitalist entities with a profit motive seeking victory in competition. When IRL Mondragon coop got the chance to benefit from lower wage labour in the Global South, they did not make them part of their coop free association structure. A coop is a kinder capitalist enterprise, but capitalist nonetheless. This mindset placing our economic aims to the altar of efficiency & productivity is exactly why your vision of "anarchism" is ultimately still capitalist.

Moreover, abolutely not to your proposed willing stratification of German society & keeping an underclass. The aim of both Communist & the anarchist wing of the Cooperatives is to eventually be able to eliminate these capitalistic-engineered inequalities, as part to achieve communism or statelessness, not to preserve them in the name of Numbers Go Up. Your proposal instead sounds like laissez faire capitalism with worker-owned enterprises - kinder, but still easing for the destruction of egalitarian aims in a rat race to the bottom that spoils your own stated goal for the working classes to transcend the chains of necessity to do work.
 
[] The Federation Party
-[] Plan Global Networking
--[] Continue to support radical thinkers and revolutionary groups within the Imperial League, promising aid when they are ready to begin their uprisings. Tailor German rhetoric and aid to the material conditions of each country, though always emphasizing revolution as the end goal.
--[] Formally recognize the Jeonju government in order to immediately begin providing similar support to them as we do other anti-colonial groups, with a formal embassy, military attaches, and aid in reaching out to Japan and China. Focus on promoting socialist and radical groups within Jeonju as part of this anti-colonialism.
--[] Propose the Logistical Integration Commission for the Triple Alliance, a commission which, similar to the AHC, will begin coordinating and standardizing vital war industries within the Triple Alliance, from steel production to arms manufacturing.
—[] Begin to plan out various cultural and national assemblies, taking public input from the relevant communities to best ensure that the NPA program benefits them. Recognize national personal autonomy within the Imperial League, specifically in Austria and Poland, and assert their individual right to personal self-determination and autonomy via diplomatic channels.
--[] Through our existing cultural exchanges with America, begin making inroads with the American People's Party, seeking to affirm bonds of international radical solidarity openly, and encouraging them to honor the principles of anti-colonial radicalism with indigenous groups. Meanwhile, build on the existing exchanges to encourage the development of independent radical and socialist grassroots networks, as well as disenfranchised groups, through industrial and commercial exchanges.
--[] Begin surveying and coordinating with councils to continue to connect Germany with lights and telegraphs, using the rail lines as guideposts. Ensure that military and naval needs are prioritized in this planning and building.

The Federation Party promises the most belligerent foreign policy! The World Republic is imminent, comrades! The time to fight is approaching! We shall be ready! For National Personal Autonomy, and for the freedom of Poland, Austria, and all oppressed peoples!
 
Coops are capitalist entities with a profit motive seeking victory in competition. When IRL Mondragon coop got the chance to benefit from lower wage labour in the Global South, they did not make them part of their coop free association structure. A coop is a kinder capitalist enterprise, but capitalist nonetheless. This mindset placing our economic aims to the altar of efficiency & productivity is exactly why your vision of "anarchism" is ultimately still capitalist.

Moreover, abolutely not to your proposed willing stratification of German society & keeping an underclass. The aim of both Communist & the anarchist wing of the Cooperatives is to eventually be able to eliminate these capitalistic-engineered inequalities, as part to achieve communism or statelessness, not to preserve them in the name of Numbers Go Up. Your proposal instead sounds like laissez faire capitalism with worker-owned enterprises - kinder, but still easing for the destruction of egalitarian aims in a rat race to the bottom that spoils your own stated goal for the working classes to transcend the chains of necessity to do work.

How exactly do worker owned cooperatives of all things develop an underclass? Unless you mean to say some coops will force other coops into a so called underclass due to competition? I'd also like to enquire over the nature of labour vouchers, since at first glance, it's just labour in the form of paper, in other words, money.
 
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How exactly do worker owned cooperatives of all things develop an underclass? Unless you mean to say some coops will force other coops into a so called underclass due to competition? I'd also like to enquire over the nature of labour vouchers, since at first glance, it's just labour in the form of paper, in other words, money.
Full-time workers get to be part-owners with the full cooperative benefits and then they hire all the new people on temporary/zero-hour contracts.
 
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