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Ship of Fools: A Taylor Varga Omake (Complete)

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Ship of Fools: A Taylor Varga Omake (Complete) Demons and Angels Seven Days to Skitter
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FaerieKnight79 said:
It's also suppose to be a very rare spell to find a cleric able to cast. Lore wise, people who can cast 9th level spells are few and far between. Also, could the spell be used on Eberon, for example, to bring back someone who died in a completely different branch of reality? After all, the deity granting your chosen cleric's spells doesn't have any authority over the afterlife of Taylor's reality.

EDIT: Also, if you bring said cleric to Taylor's dimension, they may not retain access to their spells due to the god or goddess granting them not having access to that dimension.
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hig level clerics are rare. Absolute truth... in any realm except Faerun. 17th to 30th level characters in Forgotten Realms are damn near a dime a dozen, and the spell can bring back Outsiders, IE., creatures born and native to other planes and dimensions. The only thing you can't bring back is old age and constructs, Annette should be neither.

As for the question of if the cleric will do it... Give a big enough donation to a church, they'd raise Moander for you.
 
Eh, even in Faerun high level adventurers are suppose to be rare. It's just that there's a handful of extremely powerful people like Eleminster running around. But there's not that many at such a level. I think there's only suppose to be 5 or so mortals (yes, that includes Eliminster) who are that powerful. And they rarely get directly involved, leaving things up to younger adventurers for the most part. Most of the high level heroes from the various novels are around level 12 or so. Which does kind of reflect the fact that when roleplaying damn few characters make it to level 15 or higher. Either there's a full party wipe or the character gets retired around level 10 in favor of lower level, more fun to play characters. With many characters never making it past level 6 for various reasons. I can count on one hand the number of times I had a character reach level 15 with fingers left over.
 
Point of fact, Eliminster isn't even a high level cleric. He's a third level cleric.

EDIT: Also point of fact, after his thousands of years he's a level 24 wizard and level 5 archmage according to 3rd edition. He's also got some levels of fighter and thief too.
 
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How common or rare high level D&D spellcasters are depends entirely on the setting and the location within said setting, in some settings you'd be lucky to find anyone over level 12 outside of mythic beings, in others you can find one or more 20th level characters at the head of every major faction. In Sigil, you can occasionally bump into a manifested Divinity, and if you know which Doors to use and how you can find technically intelligent beings of almost any level and type up to and including Far Realm entities or equivalent Lovecraftian horrors.

Evil adventurers in the Lower Planes\Realms of most D&D settings can easily find high level clerics in any major hellish city for example.
 
No one has mentioned this so far, but Pir Se is a canon Worm cape whose powers include creating doorways backwards in time for "minutes", and using those doorways to change recent history. Doesn't his existence and repeated use of his power imply that the Worm universe is not overtly hostile to time travel, at least over the range of "minutes"?

The easiest way of course of dealing with this Canon character is to assume, like some Worm parahumans, that Pir Se is somehow misunderstanding what is power is actually doing--or that in the Worm universe time is elastic over a period of minutes but eventually "hardens" into something more rigid and brittle.

Alternately, you could just decide that Pir Se is just another really neat idea that Wildbow had it doesn't actually make much sense if you think it through, and ignore him for your story's internal logic. After all, if the Entities had shards that allow them to move backwards in time, their race's goal of coming up with a solution to entrophy on a cosmic scale makes even less sense than in canon.
 
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CarlHenderson said:
No one has mentioned this so far, but Pir Se is a canon Worm cape whose powers include creating doorways backwards in time for "minutes", and using those doorways to change recent history. Doesn't his existence and repeated use of his power imply that the Worm universe is not overtly hostile to time travel, at least over the range of "minutes"?

The easiest way of course of dealing with this Canon character is to assume, like some Worm parahumans, that Pir Se is somehow misunderstanding what is power is actually doing--or that in the Worm universe time is elastic over a period of minutes but eventually "hardens" into something more rigid and brittle.

Alternately, you could just decide that Pir Se is just another really neat idea that Wildbow had it doesn't actually make much sense if you think it through, and ignore him for your story's internal logic. After all, if the Entities had shards that allow them to move backwards in time, their race's goal of coming up with a solution to entrophy on a cosmic scale makes even less sense than in canon.
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I'm not sure what WOG says but my head canon is that it's based on some form of powerful thinker ability somewhat similar to Coil's where all the time travel is simulated ahead of time by shard modeling and the effects happening real time are just an illusion of time travel.
 
I'm fairly certain, but not 100% confident that Wildbow had mentioned at some point that powers in Worm can't do time travel. Might be wrong. That said, the problem isn't that time travel can't be done. It's that it's easy to do.

Pir Se on the other hand probably isn't actually traveling in time. It's more likely a Thinker effect and he only thinks he's changing the past like @Kojootti35 suggested. That appears to be how Wildbow claims time manipulating powers other then Grey Boy's bubbles work.
 
CarlHenderson said:
After all, if the Entities had shards that allow them to move backwards in time, their race's goal of coming up with a solution to entropy on a cosmic scale makes even less sense than in canon.
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Then again, Entities are MORONS. Now it's entirely possible that temporal manipulation shards only work at the 4th dimensional scale and not the 11th-dimensional (or whatever) reality of the Entities/Multiverse, which is why it doesn't help with entropy OVERALL.
 
Talking using a Fantasy setting as a way to "get people back" is tricky - you don't know what the 'reach' or portability of such capabilities are - the multiverse is a big place, and there may be an omniverse with multiverses as components (or even more layers). The mechanics may vary very widely, too - DnD introduced 'death by old age' as something preventing restoring to life at 3rd Edition, and DnD is far from being the only set of game mechanics.

To a considerable extent it depends what sort of story or stories you want to tell, or consume. And, how deep you're willing to go down the rabbit hole. Real world physics is truly weird - on a fundamental level matter, energy, space/time may not exist, only information. I've heard people ask questions like "Is a soul anything but indestructible information?".

If you want to restore people to life science fiction settings arguably offer far more possibilities than fantasy ones. They may or may not believe in 'souls', or have them follow life restoration in some very strange way (the word 'quantum' is often evoked). Some get interesting when 'destiny' is mixed-in. The simplest assume if you've a copy of the DNA, any epigenetics, any environmental changes (like healed injuries, hair/nail length, piercing/tattoos), and a 'mind print', you can run-off as many copies as you like... I might recommend the Charles Stross novel 'Glasshouse'...

Remember: for your good physical and mental health - take regular backups. :)
 
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TheLandYacht said:
There's a fic where the Anya character ends up being QUITE a bit more intelligent than portrayed, and while the "horny former demon" part is at least partially true, the "socially awkward" part is a complete act to play on the other characters' insecurities and preconceptions.

It's pointed out that there's no way she would have been able to "do her job" of convincing women to "make their wishes" if she were really anywhere near that awkward.
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Which fic is it?
 
Derek M said:
Time Travel
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In general, I really dislike time travel in stories because it is almost never done in a method that make any goddamn sense. Best example I can think of at the moment is Dr. Who. Time travel in that series is just a mechanism of travelling, not actually travelling in time because of the various paradoxes that would have resulted.

The best example of Time Travel I've seen was in a series by Linda Evans. In this series time could not be changed. The past had already happened and any attempt to change it would inevitably fail. For example, you travel back in an attempt to kill Hitler and your gun would jam, you'd be hit by a car, your explosives would prematurely detonate or so on. Your attempt will fail because it had already failed and was just part of the timescape.

In the case of this story, I think you've done it right. Timing events so that history isn't changed in the slightest. As rough as that is on some of the characters, it has to be to accomplish the best possible outcome with the least amount of damage.
 
I was going to do an April Fools bit where Oma Desala goes back in time and helps Annette Hebert, Sha're, Susan Delgado, Amanda Ripley and Gwen Stacey ascend upon death. As a balancing effort, she would also have to bring back Gray Boy, Ra, Aurora, the Alien Queen and Dark Phoenix in a way similar to Anubis. I honestly haven't got the time, though, so feel free to imagine the consequences of such a thing.
 
crazyself00 said:
Which fic is it?
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ummm...the "hospital scene" after xander & buffy are shot in a variation on the "Tara get shot" scene...and several scenes thereafter, in which Anya plays a part. Starts around chapter 20 or so of the fic, which is a long one (for Buffy fic, 233k words). The fic is a bit smutty (starting out as a "woke up in Vegas" fic), but doesn't quite descend to the point of being PWP...since there is a pretty real (and quite interesting once it gets rolling) plot outside the smut. I can give it...ummm...THREE thumbs up.

"And Another Thing I Hate About You" by Ironbear
 
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Given Varga's abilities high level clerics being hard to access would be irrelevant - He's basically the equivalent of a local God, so if he shows up asking for a favor... Well, I suspect there would be a line, if there were enough high level clerics in the world.

And if you can pare it down to standard resurrection... well, that one isn't all that rare among adventuring parties. And could likely be traded for a few indestructible custom armor sets with the adventuring cleric thinking they were being overpaid handsomely.

Now if it would actually work or not? That I cannot answer.

In principle though the omniverse is a big place. I'd even wager there are entire multiverses where the concept of untimely death simply... doesn't apply to intelligent beings, for a simple example. There are probably universes out there where bringing anyone you want back - no matter where from or how long ago or how they died - would be so trivial they would wonder why you are asking. ...Of course that doesn't mean you'll be finding those universes. When everything is possible you are just as likely to run into cosmic horrors as you are into the goods.
 
Again, in D&D resurrections are cheap due to the need to keep the game running. However, that's just the game.

What if, in worlds portrayed by D&D, they don't make Death so easy to get out of? Without the need to be a game, death becomes just as real as in any other world.

Yes, in settings where Divine Powers are willing to intervene in matters of Life and Death one may be able to bring those who died before their time back. However, such Powers are unlikely to intervene for those that do not earn their favor in some way, and even then will be rarely granted boons without a Very Good Reason.

Plus, the Varga is a high level Demon, but not a Power. He may be more powerful then any other non-Power Demon, but he is still not a Power. Remember, the Greater Powers have complete dominion over him. He may well be, in 3rd edition and later terms, a Challenge Rating 30+ threat, but the true powers cannot be affected by any mortal or corporal means; no mortal magics or weapons forged by non-divine hands can cause them harm, no mortal illusions can confuse their senses, and even the limit in perception that forces mortals to be in or perceive only one place at a time do not apply to them. In other words, if a hostile Varga gets on a Divine Power's bad side, then they will be dealt with; either by banishment of elimination. It is only the pacts between Powers that limit their interactions with Mortals, and those do not apply to hostile Outsiders.

Of course, the hard part would be to find a World where Death is even this easy to get out of....
 
Jacen1 said:
He may well be, in 3rd edition and later terms, a Challenge Rating 30+ threat
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Little low there, most great wyrms are in the 24-39 cr range or higher. Varga would be at least... huh. Wait a minute.
Roughly, given the powers shown so far, he'd be at least a cr71, minimum. Depending on how often and how much he can cast that could go up 21 levels just on magic alone.

Hell, the blast voice alone is cr 15, as a spell like death/disintegrate affect ability with long range plus, no saving throw and a touch attack. Sorry, cr13, as it can only be used in certain forms.
 
Ravenwood240 said:
Little low there, most great wyrms are in the 24-39 cr range or higher. Varga would be at least... huh. Wait a minute.
Roughly, given the powers shown so far, he'd be at least a cr71, minimum. Depending on how often and how much he can cast that could go up 21 levels just on magic alone.

Hell, the blast voice alone is cr 15, as a spell like death/disintegrate affect ability with long range plus, no saving throw and a touch attack. Sorry, cr13, as it can only be used in certain forms.
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The numbers went up since 3rd edition; in the first printing, Great Worms were in the CR 20-25 range, and the Tarrasque itself was a CR 24. Keep in mind, though, that was the initial printing set, where the Player's Handbook only went up to level 20, and Pit Fiends, the most powerful of the non-power Devils, were CR 19. I felt a CR 30+ would reflect something far beyond the nation killing power of these known monsters.

Mind you, I got into D&D back when AD&D didn't have an edition number, the Unearthed Arcana was relatively new, and Second Edition was still a few years away. I stopped buying new books when 3.5 came out, since that told me the new publishers were more interested in selling books then ironing out a working system first.....
 
Jacen1 said:
Mind you, I got into D&D back when AD&D didn't have an edition number, the Unearthed Arcana was relatively new, and Second Edition was still a few years away. I stopped buying new books when 3.5 came out, since that told me the new publishers were more interested in selling books then ironing out a working system first.....
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To be fair, TSR also cared more about selling more and more books. Think about how many splat books AD&D 2nd Edition had? A Complete Class book for every main class, books to introduce and flesh out new (badly balanced) systems such as psionics, weapon books, published adventures ranging from short one session long adventure to major series of multiple adventures, campaign settings, starter boxed sets, a 'basic' edition starter set... All told AD&D 2nd edition had 100 books and boxed sets published by TSR. 3rd edition and 3.5 edition had a combined total of 83 books and boxed sets that Wizards of the Coast published.

4th edition has far fewer books, partly due to it not lasting as long due to the system flopping rather hard. And 5th edition is so new that it doesn't have many books yet either.

Remember that Wizards of the Coast, and TSR before them, are businesses. Selling books is how they make money. WotC also has Magic: The Gathering to fall back on, but selling game books is a major part of their yearly income source. And TSR entirely relied upon selling game books. Since their other systems didn't do as well, of course they made a lot of books for the system they published that was doing well. After all, to keep making money they needed to constantly have new products. Otherwise they would have ran out of customers due to everyone who was into roleplaying already having all the books.
 
I personally like 1st ed,life's more interesting when your mage is one rat bite from death, and trying to to get the stats to play a human dual class Ranger druid is freaking near impossible.

3.5 is the one we player the most, since if you use anything OGL/D20, there is no limit to what you can be or play, or where.
 
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