Ship of Fools: A Taylor Varga Omake (Complete)

As I recall, it was a straight up SG1 fic featuring Teal'c talking to Jack after they got of the planet when Teal'c saw a warning sign.

I'm still looking but there are a lot of fics in the SG1 section and it may have been part of a collection of oneshots...
 
Found it here... sadly the picture is no longer available.

Just looking for the pic that goes with it as well.

EDIT: Found the pic that goes with the fic...

Now how the hell do I add the image to the message when it's not got an URL??
 
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OK, Here's the pic that goes with the fic...

Dropbox

Sorry, that picture looks like it requires a Dropbox login to get at it...

This is an alleged guide to getting free web hosting from Google - no, I haven't (yet) tested this. I'm guessing you could put the odd image up there so it gets a URL, as well as use this for other stuff.

...

I wonder if Family math would allow up-loading of things to somewhere semi-real, then accessing them (pulling them out of the screen) via a web interface...
 
Dunuelos borrowed it from an older story. One on FanFiction.Net by AlbertG. A Universe of Change, I think, but I can't be bothered to check where.

Not even that. Any competent archeologist is trained in recognizing those kinds of things these days due to the humans of the past not always using base 10. Ancient Sumeria for instance used base 60.

Why... exactly... did they find it disturbing? ..... He asked, almost in dread.
 
Really, that would only give you a set of names for the elements.


On the Federation: They should have a set of "rough, loose, unusual" organizations like the (RHJunior's) Racconian Rangers. People who will and can wade into situations where even the explorer types of Starfleet fear to tread, and WIN. Solve the problem. "Rules, smules"
For people who like a LOT more chaos and challenge in their lives.

Diplomats remind people of snake oil salesmen on First Contact.


I'm flattered to be mentioned. :D Gunboat diplomacy is hardly a novel concept though.... I think that the only real difference between that and my Space Rangers is that they send ONE guy, armed to the teeth. The implied message being "We're explicitly not an invading force, but take careful note: this is what ONE of our guys can bring to bear. Do not provoke us into sending two."
 
I'm flattered to be mentioned. :D Gunboat diplomacy is hardly a novel concept though.... I think that the only real difference between that and my Space Rangers is that they send ONE guy, armed to the teeth. The implied message being "We're explicitly not an invading force, but take careful note: this is what ONE of our guys can bring to bear. Do not provoke us into sending two."
I'm reminded of the ruling style of House Wulfenbach in the Pax Europea (Girl Genius):
"Don't make me come over there!"
 
But that's the thing. Who's to say that a completely alien culture will even use a periodic table like we do? What we consider the most layout may be something another species would never have thought of. The chart could have been for anything. And how would the explorers know it's a science class room to begin with? They can't read the texts after all. And probably wouldn't recognize any of the tools found in said room, if there are any. No, it would be assumed just based on the grid without any supporting evidence.
For all the researchers would know, it could well be a chart for some sort of spiritualist belief system. Or a set of rules. Or any number of things. Without any context, the chart is useless for translating a language. What made the Rossetta Stone so important is that it had the same exact text in multiple languages, several of which could be translated. But that chart doesn't provide any context beyond what is assumed to exist without any proof.

That's mostly reasons aliens might not have recognizable periodic tables on their walls, and there are plenty of those.

But the other way around seems to be the relevant question for that story - if you do find something that looks like a periodic table, is that likely to be a coincidence?
Maybe it could be, but I don't know any human examples - the Sephirot or I Ching don't look much like a periodic table, and I don't know what else even gives the same pattern.

The basic pyramidal count of quantum numbers with n from 1..., 0 <= l < n, -l <= ml <= l, ms = +/- 1/2, that much maybe could come from a purely mathematical design (like a Pascal's triangle or something), but where the splits go in the higher rows to squeeze in the extras elements of longer rows is based on the physics of when an orbital with higher n but smaller l ends up having less energy than orbitals with lower n but higher l. That's a rather specific pattern to get from something unrelated to chemistry. (Now maybe they have an elaborate philosophical system based on relating personalities to blood types elements, which would interfere with translation but I wouldn't count it as misidentifying a periodic table).
 
But that's again assuming an alien mind would use the same method of organizing things as a human. A human goes "B follows A and comes before C" because that's how we organize things. Our periodic table is organized the way it is because humans think it's a logical setup. Yet as others have pointed out, there are many different layouts that even humans use for a periodic table. What us humans consider sensible, logical, and the only way of doing something may well be thought of as inefficient by an alien mind. And that's assuming said alien mind even considered something we would view as sensible and logical.

Hell, even within our own species there have been conflicts on what is considered sensible and logical just based on differing cultures. Having a standardized calendar, for example, is fairly recent.
 
That's more reasons we might not recognize alien chemistry posters, not a reason that something that looks like a human periodic table would be likely to actually be something else.
 
But that's again assuming an alien mind would use the same method of organizing things as a human.

There is a fundamental efficiency to math.

The reason storage is usually some type of cube. Nothing stacks more efficiently. Other things stack just as efficiently, but not when you flip them on all 3 axes they don't!

Ordering the Periodic Table of the elements in an above-mentioned boxy layout (3d practical! And it's basically a spreadsheet too!) is math-perfect, or close enough that a significant subset of alien intelligences that actually has use for jotting stuff down will do it that way.


The order of the elements is sorted on weight and traits. Weight ascends from Hydrogen on up. So why not just a single 1dimensional list of all the elements?
Because when you stack 'em up the way we've done, and only in that way, you get the different columns of elements that have the same traits, but moreso.
It also helps that, like solar system orbital trajectories and multidimensional maths, it predicted certain elements's traits before they were discovered.


There is a natural order to the elements.
Granted, you could turn the chart on its side, or upside down, even flip the thing, but the order stays the same, and so does the 'canyon' formation, beginning at Hydrogen..... dot dot dot… Helium, and eventually filling up more and more. Why is Helium the natural stop point? Because it's the point where that particular orbit of electrons is full and nonreactive. Which is why the inert noble gases are on that last pillar. When you 'start a new row', you tend to start at the most reactive.


I... might be wrong on some of these details, and exceptions do exist, but the point is: The periodic table of the elements is as obvious as the wheel or the shipping crate or Pi.

It's math, and blunt practicality, and a huge amount of the reasons why we do things a certain way and not another way isn't some fetishizable cultural quirk of the earth homo sapiens, it's just the most boring, simple, efficient way to do things for anyone and everyone.


Everything from the shape of a thing that can hold a liquid up against gravity, to hydrogen-oxygen engines to the function of fission weapons is without a doubt an experience shared by a majority of sophonts in the universe/multiverse/branes with similar laws of physics.

An 'alien mind' wouldn't organize things differently just to be different. They'd have to have a reason. They (and us!) would still just find the most efficient way to utilize most Rosetta stones.



Your xenoculture lesson for the day. /end McKay+Jackson Collab
 
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There is a fundamental efficiency to math.
...
I... might be wrong on some of these details, and exceptions do exist, but the point is: The periodic table of the elements is as obvious as the wheel or the shipping crate and Pi.

I love this sort of stuff.

Mind, the aliens might use TAU instead of PI.



Simply because... well, how do YOU draw a circle? Do you measure out a diameter... or do you use a compass or a string and line and draw a RADIUS?

It's why my Racconans use Tau in their math instead of Pi. First, due to how they traditionally lay out land claims-- plant a stake at a landmark, run out a line, walk in a circle around the stake. Consequently, they had a vested interest in calculating the area inside a circle, and so came up with Tau. (Lots of land are generally circular, packed together like oranges-- with the spaces in between as public land/roads. Most of their intersections are consequently three-way....)

Their houses are also built on the golden ratio or a fibonacci spiral: basically a series of sequentially expanding rooms around a central point. Makes it easier to add on a room-- up to a point, anyway.
 
I call shenanigans! There's no way Dr. Jackson was involved; nobody could tolerate spending enough time in a room with Rodney McKay to actually produce that xenoculture lesson.

Stargate Atlantis Season 5 2-parter. They were peas in a pod. Passive-aggressive peas. Kidnapped by Vanir.

Heh. Vanir meet Ianthe and Metis.
*Copy of the Stargate Atlantis Mid-Season 5 OMG moment, only with Amy unzipping Ianthe and stepping out as a scrawny... Terran!*

Amy: "Supriiiiise… Not all lizards!"
Vanir: "...That... We were going to initiate diplomacy with a dramatic reveal of our true nature. We... will need to reassess."
Amy: "No, don't worry! We're here on behalf of Thor! I'll give you all genetic upgrades! For free!"
*Asgard blink inside suit* "...We really should have stayed in contact with the Aesir."
 
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There is a natural order to the elements.
Granted, you could turn the chart on its side, or upside down, even flip the thing, but the order stays the same, and so does the 'canyon' formation, beginning at Hydrogen..... dot dot dot… Helium, and eventually filling up more and more. Why is Helium the natural stop point? Because it's the point where that particular orbit of electrons is full and nonreactive. Which is why the inert noble gases are on that last pillar. When you 'start a new row', you tend to start at the most reactive.

Of course, the commonly seen Periodic Table is the 18(?) column version with footnoted actinide and lanthinide rows. There is also the full 32 column version with all of the elements in the same table.
 
I'd imagine The Family arranges their periodic table based on how various elements taste. And thus the layout (not to mention arrangement) is completely different to anything humanity has devised.
 
But the point of the original discussion was not to come up with some alien version of a periodic table specifically made to defy human analysis. Sure, you can do that, if you really want to and make lots of assumptions.

On the other hand, if you find something that looks very like a periodic table, with logically laid out groupings (circular, gridded, spirals, written on the inside of an old sock, whatever) which seem to match the elemental layout that we use, a much simpler assumption is that it IS a periodic table. The number of entries on it would be a good hint in that direction to start with. As has been said, the way we lay out such a thing isn't arbitrary or pure style, it's functional and logical based on sensible and pretty basic mathematical and chemical knowledge.

So if you assume that it looks similar enough to a common or human variety of periodic table and proceed to analyse it on that basis, it's something you can either prove or disprove fairly easily compared to trying to translate some alien version of a bus timetable or the works of Shakespeareon The Toothy. Since you have the background knowledge of what is most likely on the damn thing, it's going to be a lot more sensible to start there than somewhere entirely novel with no clue as to what it is.

The exercise isn't to come up with all the ways this could be subverted, because there's probably a never-ending supply of those, and they also mean you have to make a lot of assumptions you have no way to back up. Sure, the aliens might communicate by farting ultrasonic show tunes at each other, but if you find something written down, it's a reasonable thing to come to the conclusion that it means something. And that might just be exactly what it looks like it means.

Edit: The Family use a multidimensional tesseract layout, the visible part being essentially a fairly sensible periodic table that any human chemist would probably recognize. He'd be confused about how it had some three hundred and fourteen elements on it, but the numbers for the ones he knew about would match.

The higher dimensions of the table denote smell, taste, bitterness, umami, kwersh (something only a demon can detect), and how well it goes with fish.

;)
 
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