Ship of Fools: A Taylor Varga Omake (Complete)

[Athelmar]

With the right rail setup on each side of the gate you can pass a mile long train into the gate in a fraction of its max 30ish minute window giving you time to connect tracks from one side of the gate to the other then finish pulling the tracks before the gate self closes. A large loop of tracks with a into the gate or bypass back to the loop switch would let the train maintain full speed even with a no go call.

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The Commonwealth series of books by Peter F. Hamilton does a similar thing with a train network running through portals.

It works fairly well for expansion from earth, but when SPOILERS happen, and SPOILERS things go a bit pair shaped.

 

[gluki]

The 'gate, when opened, can't be moved or suddenly unstable wormhole.

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Hm? I definitely remember the episode where they moved active stargate from SGC to space.
And orbital stargates...

 

[Trufla]

Hm? I definitely remember the episode where they moved active stargate from SGC to space.
And orbital stargates...

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The stargate's position is adjustable within a certain level of distance, or the stellar drift compensator build into the DHD wouldn't work. I suspect that if you shift the gate and DHD as a set, you probably could even have a very mobile connection point, as proved by Destiny. Earth's stargate is the clinker there, because the SGC gate has gotten decoupled from its DHD and is being run by a reverse-engineered kludge system with no active handshake to the remote DHD to allow real-time drift compensation beyond whatever base tolerance is in the system that lets two gates lock on to each other in the first place.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

the wormhole terminus opened and spit out the vessel

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Not sure if it's a US/UK English difference, but should that be 'spat', not 'spit'?

Overall, nice chapter, moves things along well. I'd be concerned, though, about Linda and Kevin's shards, as unless something's been done in TV we don't know about they'd have a range issue, of shutting-down their shard link (so no powers) when their hosts go beyond about Luna orbit - according to canon Worm. I'd expect that they'd at least notice this. Suspicious people might wonder if this is one reason Metis didn't join the test flight...

This is the same issue, though on a less drastic scale, as SoF Taylor has, that I previously made maybe too much of a fuss about.

TV Taylor, of course, doesn't have a not-totally-portable shard to be concerned about...

Now, a certain mpPIp person did provide you an Omake that fixes the Taylor issue, but...

For Kevin and Linda they both have the neural amplifiers, which you could say means that their shards can ignore the Entity limit, which would be another way of looking at things.

BTW, I might be able to guess why Ellen was the only one escaping from her ship, to be picked-up by SoF, but, *spoilers*.

 

[mp3.1415player]

We can assume that Shard distance in TV is not an issue. The reasons why will be fully documented to the appropriate standard at a future point relative to the main time line.

This has been a FamTech™ DocuLizard©​ informational notice.

Lizard responsibly.

 

[Troy Guffey]

The stargate's position is adjustable within a certain level of distance, or the stellar drift compensator build into the DHD wouldn't work. I suspect that if you shift the gate and DHD as a set, you probably could even have a very mobile connection point, as proved by Destiny. Earth's stargate is the clinker there, because the SGC gate has gotten decoupled from its DHD and is being run by a reverse-engineered kludge system with no active handshake to the remote DHD to allow real-time drift compensation beyond whatever base tolerance is in the system that lets two gates lock on to each other in the first place.

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Don't forget they've done manual dialing several times! With nothing beyond a electrical source and muscle power. In the episode where they were in 1969, it was a truck for the electric power.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

Don't forget they've done manual dialing several times! With nothing beyond a electrical source and muscle power. In the episode where they were in 1969, it was a truck for the electric power.

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It's likely that the Stargate held some stored power (they slowly self-recharge), and hadn't been moved too far (just around the Earth's surface) that automatic systems in the network couldn't compensate. Regular use of the 'Gate without a DHD (which is the standard power source) seems to use a lot of power (millions of dollars worth per year). And, if I recall correctly it was a lot of trucks providing just enough power...

And, in that case, they just wanted to move, not between solar systems, but along the Earth's time-line, Back to the Future!

 

[E M Berner]

But still rotating the Stargate such that people running into it suddenly fall back into the event horizon until the gate disconnects would be fully feasible, they have done this on incoming wormholes in canon. When they were attacked by that Stargate destroying weapon they strapped the gate horizontally to the underside of a F-302 fighter so rotating it isn't a problem.

I have no clue if rotating the Stargate when it's an outgoing wormhole would be a problem but in that case rotating it before dialling would be easily done.

Edit: Forgot to mention, falling back into the event horizon you came out of would lead to you being trapped in it until the power was cut and you were erased from the buffers. It's possible that a proper dhd has some function to fix this but I don't think it automatic.

 

[Derek M]

We can assume that Shard distance in TV is not an issue. The reasons why will be fully documented to the appropriate standard at a future point relative to the main time line.

This has been a FamTech™ DocuLizard©​ informational notice.

Lizard responsibly.

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Thank you. All this talk about shard loss had me thinking of an omake where Uber lost his power, and it connected to Void Cowboy, granting him the superpower that lets him always win an argument. The damage to PHO would be catastrophic.

 

[Derek M]

Don't forget they've done manual dialing several times! With nothing beyond a electrical source and muscle power. In the episode where they were in 1969, it was a truck for the electric power.

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They used truck alternators as a power source in 1969. They used a chemical power source they got from Linea when they were trapped in an alien prison. They used lightning and Marty McFly'ed the gate when they rescued Ernest Littlefield. I think they used a goa'uld explosive at one point when they were trapped in a museum on an alien world. It's well established in canon that they can manually dial as long as they can BS plot a power source.

Also, Stargates are one-way in the series, and falling back into the event horizon on the wrong side is indeed lethal (as is hitting an iris or force field in a way that prevents re-materialization, but that's a different scenario). The episode where O'Neil was trapped for months on an alien planet thanks to a meteor hitting the gate had them dial the gate, then pull Teal'c in with a grappling hook so that he stayed suspended over the gate until it shut down. The gate had fallen so that it opened straight up.

That second part was always a little...fuzzy logic...in my mind. If you look at how people walk, they swing their arms and can lean in different directions while trying to get their balance. It seems weird that nobody ever stumbles back once they're re-materialized and gets singed, at least. If you look up the episode A Hundred Days, though, it's clear that falling back into the event horizon is lethal.

Edit: It's also possible to move an active Stargate. That actually makes a lot of sense, scientifically, as two Stargates on different worlds in different systems will be moving quite a lot in relation to each other while active -- planets don't stop revolving and orbiting their star, after all. We've seen Apophis use a Stargate on a spaceship, and the Destiny never stops moving, but they still used the Stargate. They also lifted an active Stargate into orbit when it was going to explode, and sent a different one into a star to cause a supernova (an event that became part of Sam Carter's legend).

 

[Arthur Hansen]

I remember a fanfic where the gate was on vertical tracks and could be presented to several different gaterooms for different purposes, fancy diplomatic reception room, vehicle bay with ATVs, motorcycles, maybe jeeps, weapons room for shooting through the gate, secure room for blocking incoming stuff, with ALL the defenses, even the ones that you do not want anywhere near your people at any time, like standing clouds of poison gas and lethal radiation. Even a big cement circle the gate fits over so it acts like it was buried.

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That sounds like my Gundam Seed Stargate story. That Star Gate Forces had 'point large caliber energy weapons through the gates' as a weapon. I even added a robotic pivot that you could send through the gate that could pick it up and point it at things like Goa'uld mothership.

 

[SamPardi]

They used truck alternators as a power source in 1969. They used a chemical power source they got from Linea when they were trapped in an alien prison. They used lightning and Marty McFly'ed the gate when they rescued Ernest Littlefield. I think they used a goa'uld explosive at one point when they were trapped in a museum on an alien world. It's well established in canon that they can manually dial as long as they can BS plot a power source.

Also, Stargates are one way in the series, and falling back into the event horizon on the wrong side is indeed lethal (as is hitting an iris or force field in a way that prevents re-materialization, but that's a different scenario). The episode where O'Neil was trapped for months on an alien planet thanks to a meteor hitting the gate had them dial the gate, then pull Teal'c in with a grappling hook so that he stayed suspended over the gate until it shut down. The gate had fallen so that it opened straight up.

That second part was always a little...fuzzy logic...in my mind. If you look at how people walk, they swing their arms and can lean in different directions while trying to get their balance. It seems weird that nobody ever stumbles back once they're re-materialized and gets singed, at least. If you look up the episode A Hundred Days, though, it's clear that falling back into the event horizon is lethal.

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While it is slightly inconsistent, the gates are supposed to only transport discrete objects. So it's likely that either the buffer holds them but then dumps them as trash data once the gate shuts off, or the buffer catches them but immediately attempts to send them on once it has a whole discrete object. Either way, you have to go through the buffer first and it seems to do just fine at handling small interruptions like a person waving a hand through the gate.

 

[CmptrWz]

Just to say, it's only lethal if you fall backwards into the event horizon of an incoming wormhole completely. Step through and then stick your arm into the event horizon of the thing will hold it open from that end, something that was done when Jack went through the whole "steal something to find out who's stealing things" charade.

Which means the "your arm swings back as you exit" is covered.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

Just to say, it's only lethal if you fall backwards into the event horizon of an incoming wormhole completely. Step through and then stick your arm into the event horizon of the thing will hold it open from that end, something that was done when Jack went through the whole "steal something to find out who's stealing things" charade.

Which means the "your arm swings back as you exit" is covered.

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Basically, the Ancients built the Stargate network with all the fail-safes they could sneak into it. Pity the people who have to test a "Wright Brothers" one...

 

[FaerieKnight79]

Fail-safes are good. Fail-deadly systems on the other hand... Yikes! Such as the thing that caused the initial gate to explode in a way that could have wiped out a nation, at least. Granted that was part of enemy action, but still showed a critical design flaw.

 

[Derek M]

Whats faster a ship full of ore needing to fly back to earth or a 100 car train with each car fully loaded around 286,000 pounds?

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It's really quite amazing just how much cargo can be moved in bulk with the proper prep. Just as an example, I looked up cargo container unload speeds. The Port of Baltimore can unload from a freighter an average of 22 shipping containers every 4 minutes. That's more than 59,000 cubic feet, or more than 670 tons, of cargo in less time than it takes to properly steep tea.

A railway car can hold about 100 tons. In 38 minutes, you could pretty easily send several dozen full-sized freight trains worth of cargo through, assuming they were up to speed prior to the gate opening.

Or, you could do it like the Aschen, who simply turned the gate on its side in order to dump bulk grain through, presumably to fall into a waiting hopper on the other side. The advantage there is that gravity does all of the work as a motive force for the cargo. That only works for some types of cargo, of course, but is wonderful for bulk items.

 

[Derek M]

Just to say, it's only lethal if you fall backwards into the event horizon of an incoming wormhole completely. Step through and then stick your arm into the event horizon of the thing will hold it open from that end, something that was done when Jack went through the whole "steal something to find out who's stealing things" charade.

Which means the "your arm swings back as you exit" is covered.

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Right, I forgot about that. Also, having the gate shut off while you're half-way through is bad, as goa'uld Kowalski found out after they got back from Chulak.

 

[E M Berner]

Right, I forgot about that. Also, having the gate shut off while you're half-way through is bad, as goa'uld Kowalski found out after they got back from Chulak.

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Yea, from what I understand you don't actually travel through the gate as a whole person, you are chunked and put into a buffer until you have entered the event horizon completely and the the chunks are sent through a very small diameter wormhole to the destination and then reassembled before being extruded from that event horizon with your momentum intact.

Don't know how that keeping your arm in the event horizon thing works, logically that should lead to all the blood going into your arm being buffered and you then fainting of low blood pressure. Some pretty impressive computing had to have been going on in the background to return blood into that appendage such that you didn't bleed out by standing half in the horizon.

Turning the gate off with any part of you in the buffer would be bad... it should also do something horrible to the gate as the matter in the buffers has to go somewhere... or is there a dumping planet somewhere that all the buffer purging is sent to?

 

[Waffelmeister]

Continuing on into the realm of makes no sense, the Stargate is one directional for matter, blocks light in both directions only showing the blue shimmering water effect, but allows bidirectional radio communication so the guys on earth can use the MALP to remotely survey the distant dialed end, and send video back to ensure there is a Dial Home Device on the other end so if they send people, they won't be stranded. Also the movie and early episodes had people come out the other end covered in frost and in mild to severe pain, but later episodes this was mysteriously fixed. (Probably so the makeup artists didn't have to frost the actors on a daily basis.) It has been used for time travel on accident and on purpose, blown up a star, and I swear other assorted non-gate things.

 

[DestinyPlayer]

Continuing on into the realm of makes no sense, the Stargate is one directional for matter, blocks light in both directions only showing the blue shimmering water effect, but allows bidirectional radio communication so the guys on earth can use the MALP to remotely survey the distant dialed end, and send video back to ensure there is a Dial Home Device on the other end so if they send people, they won't be stranded. Also the movie and early episodes had people come out the other end covered in frost and in mild to severe pain, but later episodes this was mysteriously fixed. (Probably so the makeup artists didn't have to frost the actors on a daily basis.) It has been used for time travel on accident and on purpose, blown up a star, and I swear other assorted non-gate things.

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I think that the frost bit and the pain was explained by the whole "Earth's Stargate is misaligned" issue. The cold was a direct consequence of almost missing the connection.

 

[E M Berner]

I think that the frost bit and the pain was explained by the whole "Earth's Stargate is misaligned" issue. The cold was a direct consequence of almost missing the connection.

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If you are chunked and sent through and then reassembled by computer guided clarketech then I could see a small missaligntment leading to a few extra or less Kelvin and some extra momentum. If the computer uses some sort of reference as a guide to what the correct temperature and momentum is supposed to be than if that scale is off by a small amount...

Being extruded with less momentum than you had would lead to you colliding with yourself, it would feel like you ran I to an insubstantial wall... hang on... being extruded with extra momentum would lead to you being ripped apart or at least feeling as if something large used you in a tug-of-war. Unless the reassembly happens before momentum and temperature is imparted? This tech is sort of confusing.

 

[Derek M]

I think that the frost bit and the pain was explained by the whole "Earth's Stargate is misaligned" issue. The cold was a direct consequence of almost missing the connection.

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A lot of the weirdness was explained by the lack of a control console, what they called the Dial-Home Device (DHD). That's what kept the Stargate from updating properly in the network, and it also caused the frost effect, and the stuff like accidental time travel or accidentally making a planet's star go all wonky. It isn't entirely clear why they felt the need to continue to use the jury-rigged control system when they could easily have stolen a DHD from one of the dangerous worlds -- like swarm-of-infectious-bug world, or used-to-be-the-Tollan-home world, or only-thing-is-a-Macguffin-that-impales-O'Neil world.

Edit: They should have come up with some shorthand for worlds besides P#X-### blah blah blah. Instead, I'm stuck thinking of them as rapey-Mongol world or zappy-crystal world.

 

[Trufla]

A lot of the weirdness was explained by the lack of a control console, what they called the Dial-Home Device (DHD). That's what kept the Stargate from updating properly in the network, and it also caused the frost effect, and the stuff like accidental time travel or accidentally making a planet's star go all wonky. It isn't entirely clear why they felt the need to continue to use the jury-rigged control system when they could easily have stolen a DHD from one of the dangerous worlds -- like swarm-of-infectious-bug world, or used-to-be-the-Tollan-home world, or only-thing-is-a-Macguffin-that-impales-O'Neil world.

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I guess for a long time they weren't sure if a DHD could be paired with a gate other than its original partner. And since they lacked an easy way to move both devices until well into the series, it wasn't something to attempt on a whim.

 

[Derek M]

I guess for a long time they weren't sure if a DHD could be paired with a gate other than its original partner. And since they lacked an easy way to move both devices until well into the series, it wasn't something to attempt on a whim.

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Yeah, but wouldn't you even try it? I mean, they salvaged a ton of crap for Area 51. You would think snagging a control device for your magical portal network would be a top priority, and one of the things you try is plugging it into your own gate to see if it works.

 

[E M Berner]

Yeah, but wouldn't you even try it? I mean, they salvaged a ton of crap for Area 51. You would think snagging a control device for your magical portal network would be a top priority, and one of the things you try is plugging it into your own gate to see if it works.

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They'd have to get it from some place close enough that they could manually dial home since disconnecting the dhd with the wormhole open might not be a good thing. At best the wormhole just disengages, worst case... the universe burps and suddenly you never existed?