It's interesting that while we often rag on hordes of weak ninja, that the armor has actually a big effect on making them hard to deal with for an elite ninja. Of course, that large an expense may not be viable, but for whatever it cost to equip 36 genin with armor the village has obtained a force low jounin in survivability.
Seeing Red [Naruto]
- Thread starter Tekomandor
- Start date
- Location
- Internet
[x] Back off for now and hope they won't press their attack - and if they do, your team will be fighting together.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
[x] Back off for now and hope they won't press their attack - and if they do, your team will be fighting together.
- Location
- The Colored Room
- Pronouns
- TheOne
It's funny how much good equipment can change things. I honestly didn't expect the armor to be all that effective, but that's my bad.
Hisana is also not specialized in anti-army or battlefield-shaping techniques.
Wonder if the wings are a variant of the Land of the Sky chakra wings? That's the only mechanical flight device I remember from Naruto canon/movies.
e: To note, now that Hisana has engaged them in combat, she has an excuse to spill their capabilities and the necessary combat techniques to Hinata. Last thing we want is one of her chakra string techniques to do nothing at an inopportune time.
Wonder if the wings are a variant of the Land of the Sky chakra wings? That's the only mechanical flight device I remember from Naruto canon/movies.
e: To note, now that Hisana has engaged them in combat, she has an excuse to spill their capabilities and the necessary combat techniques to Hinata. Last thing we want is one of her chakra string techniques to do nothing at an inopportune time.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Colored Room
- Pronouns
- TheOne
To be fair, we did way more damage than anyone of our experience level should be capable of, as an opening move no less. In terms of shaping the engagement, we completely blunted any momentum the enemy could have had, we've at least done heavy damage to their maneuver and there's also the psychological victory of meeting every one of their advantages with a counter while handling them in combat completely on our own.
For a solo combatant, we just mucked up any plan they could have had to get the drop on us or dominate in a fight. I think you give too little credit.
For the numbers we're fighting, we did everything we needed to short of completely destroying them.
Last edited:
On top of this if you pay attention the entire fight was Hisana performing recon. Not once did she attack the same way twice and she learned a lot of valuable things.
Explosive Kunai @ Boat:
From this we found that even with the chakra armor the Snow Ninja are capable of water walking. This tells us that techniques like clipping their wings (flying armor) or sinking their transport (ground armor) are ineffective at eliminating them.
Arrow-Defying Hurricane Parry:
Instead of dodging Hisana used this as an opportunity to determine if her new deflection technique was effective against Snow's kunai launchers. This provided her field combat data on the technique, proved its effectiveness in defending squishy targets (Koyuki), and ensured that if a train vs. rebels fight happens we can save them from the massed kunai fire.
High Speed Slice:
This is the first of several attempts by Hisana to determine the durability of the chakra armor against physical attacks. With this she found that it is possible to slice straight through it like normal armor if you can put enough force behind it. Not necessarily useful for herself, since building up that kind of momentum is difficult, but it does establish that sufficient raw physical damage does overwhelm the armor.
Sealing Art: Thousand Bird Hurricane Strike:
It was definitely a very expensive strike but one of the few known counters to the chakra armor, from canon, is the Chidori. Verifying that Hisana's sword based Chidori worked, and that something in the conversion hadn't screwed that up, proved we have at least one reliable, albeit expensive, attack.
Touch Blasts:
Explosives were demonstrated to have at least some effect on the Snow Ninja in canon so testing if Hisana could just pull an Aiko and touch blast them into oblivion was worth trialing. This was met with mixed results with only 1/10 actually dying but it did injure them which does make it useful, depending upon the actual cost of the technique, and is likely damaging to the Snow Ninja's morale.
Razor Wind Cut - Breastplate:
It was expected this would be ineffective but it is still important to verify your assumptions wherever possible. With this Hisana has confirmed her regular attacks are effectively blocked by the chakra armor, which is something both we and she assumed from the start, so alternate tactics are confirmed to be required.
Razor Wind Cut - Neck:
This was actually something of a surprise. We now know that a successful strike at the weaker areas of the armor can bypass it when it would otherwise be blocked. This is great news for both Hisana and Hinata. Jyuken is a very precision based style so while she'll have to shake up what she targets the precision itself shouldn't be too bad for Hinata. For Hisana it isn't exactly her specialty, her sword techniques have long let her kill regardless of hit location, but she does generally have a speed advantage that makes precision blows easier.
In short while we did expend a significant amount of chakra, at least from Hisana's primary reserves, we also gained a lot of information on how the chakra armor works. Best of all this is information we can freely share unlike the canon information that has to be restricted. About the only thing of note I can think of that we didn't test was seeing if collisions cause the armor to explode. However that is something that would be hard for someone of Hisana's fighting style, isn't exactly relevant to Hinata, and Karin (the only one suited to such attacks) should already know that from our shared metaknowledge.
Oh I'm not saying that Hisana was ineffective at all. She did a lot in what was meant to be an experimental fight. But wiping out a platoon in one tech isn't really in her cards the way it might be for some other ninja.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Having armor that's actually decent and does something really is a game changer, isn't it. There's a reason I've wanted to steal that armor and hand it over to Konoha R&D with a smile, if the ninja villages can outfit their troops with the stuff when the Fourth Shinobi War happens, there would be a dramatic increase in ninja survivability.
Snow had some aerial armor as well, and an airship(and Haido's Knights had their own airship). They just didn't specialize in an airforce or naval force.
Presumably their flight armor is the second most advanced set they have, second only to Doto's personal prototype armor(which also has flight wings).
If the Trench coats really have sunk their teeth into movie factions like Snow, Sky and the Knights(like I would have in their place) then the potentially have a massive technological edge to make up for their lack of bijuu, game breaking bloodlines, Great Village resources and Cursed Seals.
If they use Temujin's Continent as a base and the Stone of Gelel as a power source, with the technological and manpower resources of Snow, Sky and Haido's Knights, then they could easily make themselves into the Naruto equivalent of FF14's Garlean Empire.
Last edited:
- Location
- universe
I'm liking the look of that armour for Hisana's personal use, as well. The durability on display here is off the charts, so this could be the 'upgraded sword' source that we've been looking for.
Don't forget the Kunai Launchers. I've said before that we basically have all the ingredients to make a decent rifle-alike for ourselves. Taking a look at how they do things should massively simplify that. A sniper/anti-materiel-rifle should give us a decent punch against exactly this kind of armor, with considerable range, for a not-too-big chakra cost per shot, which is something of a hole in our arsenal right now. Combined with Hisana's speed, well, kiting's a bitch.
The wings might improve the efficiency of our own flight.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
The armor is supposed to be kunai proof. To the point where sasuke threw his giant demon shuriken at it and the thing broke on contact.
There's a difference in penetration against hard metal plates between a large bladed shuriken moving at throwing speed, even superhuman throwing speeds, and a rigid pointy metal impactor moving at rifle speed. Sasuke's shuriken also didn't have any seals on it, not even relatively quick-and-dirty ones that you can stockpile in advance, such as explosive seals. We've seen just now that explosives can at the very least damage the armor, so I'm assuming that repeated hits to the same general location should fairly reliably be able to destroy it, especially when you use an APHE attack mode instead of a contact detonation.
If that's still not enough, then it should be feasible to make a simplified and drastically weakened version of the chidori kunai we were offered in the loadout vote for this mission, designed to be easy to apply in numbers on the level of explosive tags, to further improve armor penetration, at least far enough to lodge the explodey bits into an armor plate.
Yet another option might be a modified one-use version of our chakra flow conduit seals, which holds it's charge for the second or two of flight time. We've seen in the fight that Hisana's bog-standard attacks are, in fact, able to penetrate the armor, as long as they have enough speed behind them, or hit a weakpoint. Projectiles have that speed, and being stopped cold afterwards isn't an issue either for projectiles that are inherently expendable. Trying to hit weakpoints is far less of a risk if you're attacking from range than it is from melee too, as if we can kite and dodge return attacks long enough, we have all the time in the world.
As you see, there's multiple avenues of approach here. No matter which one Hisana ultimately takes, I'm confident that there is at least one that's feasible.
Last edited:
- Location
- in between
I'm reluctant to assume we'll get enough from one mission to completely change our fighting style, let alone revolutionise ninja combat the way some are assuming. We'll definitely get something, I trust Tekomandor to not give us trap votes, but I don't think we'll get as much as everyone seems to think. And we can throw things at the speed of sound already, rifle speeds isn't a big deal.
Last edited:
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
The kunai launchers being on the boats isn't an indicator of anything; we don't even know if this was a test of the team's defenses or a serious attack, or if Snow is starting with the weakest options and working up to the strongest.
Hisana apparently broke the sound barrier in this chapter and met some resistance:
Also, just as a note, we've already made this incredibly expensive for Snow; multiple fatalities, a half-dozen destroyed boats, and who knows how much equipment damage from the contents of the boats and proximity to explosions on the part of the ninja.
Exactly my point. Note that the sentence you quoted referred to Sasuke's shuriken (see the first of the videos linked above), which presumably didn't move at supersonic speed, unlike both a rifle projectile and a Hisana. Which shouldn't be surprising, since light blades like those of a large fuma shuriken are fundamentally unsuited for going through metallic armor plates. The only reason Hisana managed it with a katana is due to both aforementioned supersonic speed, and chakra bullshit.
This shows an upper limit on the armor's capability. I'm hopeful that a projectile with a far more suited geometry (short, stiff, and pointed, akin to a warhammer, a bodkin arrow, or a modern armor-piercing bullet) should partially make up for diluting the chakra bullshit to levels suitable for a disposable projectile, propably not enough to penetrate it fully, but still to lodge itself into the armor.
This is where the explosive seal that is also on the kunai comes in, as the main vector of damage. We have seen that explosive seals, with a contact detonation, were strong enough to injure through the armor, if not reliably kill. Delivering the explosions via kunai removes both the large chakra cost of touch seals, and the risk of getting bogged down and dogpiled in melee. Additionally, an explosion in an enclosed space is up to three times stronger than a contact one. If the kunai archieves any degree of penetration, even an incomplete one, the lethality of the explosion is that much higher. Possibly still not enough to reliably kill with a single hit. But at the very least, that hit should inflict some degree of crippling injuries, and blow weakpoints into the armor, both of which can be followed up on with subsequent attacks.
I mean man-portable shells or lead/tungsten (or better) impactors would be actually possible. Depends if it's practical, I'm not sure.
Hey just saw the second movie and the Stone of Gelel is basically Nature Energy crystal/stone form. The royal family in the movie must have a bloodline that can interact and manipulate with Nature Energy. The Toad oil in the summon realm is something similar but more dangerous and in a way unrefined compare to the Stone of Gelel
The Stone it self is not bad like what that elder nomad said because it was human that did the damage. Like that elder said it could be use heal, raise crops and even give a person eternal youth.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Back off for now and hope they won't press their attack - and if they do, your team will be fighting together.