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Why's everyone chomping at the bit to argue?
Seeing Red [Naruto]
- Thread starter Tekomandor
- Start date
Why's everyone chomping at the bit to argue?
Why's everyone chomping at the bit to argue?
I need too level my [Debate] skill.
Akasha
The Only Truth
- Location
- 「̛̛́́ ͏̨҉̕͏ ͏̶̴」
*enters the thread*
<.<
>.>
<.<
...War. War never changes.
So... you guys know a bar that serves infinite-sized spirals? I've been looking for one recently. For some reason, the normal ones refuse to let me in.
...Might have something to do with the foam coming from their mouths, and the blood from their eyes, now that I think about it. And the chanting. Who the fuck is Cthulu, anyway?
ALSO, can someone remind me what skill development plan we're currently leaning towards? Did anyone decide what stat/skill we should focus on for now? Been a while since I visited this place.
<.<
>.>
<.<
...War. War never changes.
So... you guys know a bar that serves infinite-sized spirals? I've been looking for one recently. For some reason, the normal ones refuse to let me in.
...Might have something to do with the foam coming from their mouths, and the blood from their eyes, now that I think about it. And the chanting. Who the fuck is Cthulu, anyway?
ALSO, can someone remind me what skill development plan we're currently leaning towards? Did anyone decide what stat/skill we should focus on for now? Been a while since I visited this place.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not super sure, but the impression I got from the last few pages is that we're going to turn ourself into bijuu chakra and then witchout for superpowers.
- Location
- Russia
Warning For Marginal Behavior
1. Hokage above all else is protector of Konoha, so it requires strongest ninja and neither 3rd nor 4th nor 5th Hokage had experience of leading Konoha, Hashirama was mad, Tobirama was paranoid - we would be best Hokage ever
2. She would be as restricted as she want it, there shadow clones for administrative work
3. Danzo sees feelings as weakness, so he doesn't have hate boner for us, especially considering fact that we wasn't even Uchiha before massacre. And there is always suicide by Uchiha for him
1. It change nothing
2. We are Uchiha
3. There was very public event, when Naruto was feeding Kyubi chakra to entire army
4. Fact that True self is as strong as outer self is perfect basis for my math
Madara was baddass, Itachi was baddass with poor reserve, Hisana would have mangekyo and kyubi's chakra so she would be badass with large reserve of chakra to support it
1. It grants her large arsenal of kage-level jutsu (nin/tai/gen)
2. Everybody knows that, so if Itachi would come to visit, then everybody is fuck*d
3. Kage, jinchuriki, bijuu and S-rank criminals are equivalent of nucler weapon - in canon konoha have lost their arsenal, right before being treatened
4. Politically, Naruto is jinchuriki (humanoid weapon of mass destruction), how would Kakashi be better, if she would be much stronger?
Actually, that is significant experience in management (she controls entire district of Konoha)
We talk about situation, where Hisana publicly defeated two S-rank criminals that have infiltrated Konoha - everybody would know that she is kage-level
Who was missing for years and wasn't there when she was need most and who is well known for horrible luck
I'm talking about invasion by kage-level criminals from Akatsuki
Yes, because she is young and patriotic and very strong, with her we can finally have peace (by defeating and assimilating every other hidden village)
In that scenario, Hisana would have bijuu-level chakra with mangekyo power and kage-level skill
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UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
I, too, wish we can control swords much like Gaara control sands. Imagine the potential!
(tbh I think Hisana being Kage is a long shot, and/or will require rather a lot of more eligible candidates died or unavailable due to some reason)
Also, it'd happen in the very far future, I don't see the need to debate about them now.
(tbh I think Hisana being Kage is a long shot, and/or will require rather a lot of more eligible candidates died or unavailable due to some reason)
Also, it'd happen in the very far future, I don't see the need to debate about them now.
Just need to level chakra strings.
- Location
- Russia
Another option requires modification and combination of Shuriken Shadow Clones jutsu, Henge: Adamantium Stuff and basic Clone jutsu: Clones > Chakra Projection > Chakra Telekinesis, Shuriken Shadow Clones > Sword Shadow Clones, Henge: Adamantium Stuff > Henge: Adamantium Sword, Sword SC * Henge: Adamantium Sword > Adamantium Sword Shadow Clones, Chakra Telekinesis * Adamantium Sword Shadow Clone > Unlimited Adamantium Sword Works
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
Which Hisana isn't.
Also, being the Hokage is pretty clearly an incredibly time-consuming duty, so we don't want to take that job - if we ever do want to - until we're actually strong, not take the position so we can use the information access to get strong.
You're still making an assumption, that the "true self" (which really isn't an accurate name, frankly) having equal strength to the "outer self" means that going through the Waterfall of Truth to gain control of it makes you twice as strong, or would double stats.
This hasn't happened and, based on current things that have actually happened, won't happen any time soon.
I'm not going to bother arguing against a string of points that
It keeps me young.
Why's everyone chomping at the bit to argue?
- Location
- Somewhere other than where I am.
- Location
- Russia
She can be in a few days of ingame time. And she can divide such duty between advisors and clones. But it would defently lead into xianxia-like escalation of power-levels.
But that is canon! It doesn't have to double chakra control stat (it could be triple or quadriple or more time) - main point of that training is self-discovery, which improves self-control, chakra control and understanding of chakra. So increase should be a lot more than 2 times.
She have sharingan and lightning blood seal, obesrvation of kage-level fight should provide xianxia-like boost to her comprehension of both chakra and jutsu (which should later be solidified via meditation and bring her cultivation to next level ... hmmm), so she can reach kage-level pretty soon (but I don't think that QM would allow her that).
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Okay, look. Reaching three tomoes of Sharingan was not unusual or rare. And yet, very few Uchiha became Kage level. It should be blindingly obvious that just being on the periphery of a Kage level fight is nowhere near enough for Hisana to reach that level herself, and whatever contortions of logic you might try to justify it will obviously not be permitted by the QM.
You're also continuing to describe a massive doubling or tripling of chakra control through a simple exercise, again, without any evidence or canon cites. Generally speaking, if you think that Hisana is "a few days" away from being Kage level, you're delusional. What, in both the quest or canon Naruto, possibly led you to that conclusion?
You're also continuing to describe a massive doubling or tripling of chakra control through a simple exercise, again, without any evidence or canon cites. Generally speaking, if you think that Hisana is "a few days" away from being Kage level, you're delusional. What, in both the quest or canon Naruto, possibly led you to that conclusion?
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
No.
Flat no. You're wrong. Becoming Hokage would not give Hisana time to do the training needed for that kind of improvement, if it was even possible to begin with rather than you wanking over how you've totally found the secret to rapid power gain that was apparently missed by several generations of Konoha nin (including a shit-ton of Uchiha).
No, that's not canon. That's what you're assuming is canon to create "evidence" that supports your assumptions. What's canon is that Naruto and Killer B used the Waterfall of Truth to face themselves as a step in gaining full control of the bijuu sealed inside them.
The use of the process for a normal person is unknown, but the benefit gained by Naruto was inner peace, not a straight power gain.
No, just observing powerful fighters fighting each other with the Sharingan doesn't lead directly to a boost in strength. Hisana seeing those fights (if she sees those fights) just means she can perfectly remember what the fighters did and can try to replicate it. That's why our Sharingan-copied techniques are listed separately, rather than together; we still have to train in order to make them combat-viable.
Akasha
The Only Truth
- Location
- 「̛̛́́ ͏̨҉̕͏ ͏̶̴」
While I believe that people really should calm the FUCK down, sit the FUCK down and drink their MOTHERFUCKING TEA around here, I have to agree.
Hisana is... impressively close to Kage-level, for her age, but she is NOT Kage-level. Neither is she so close that simply doing any single thing will get her there. If I recall correctly, A-class skills are high Jounin, while S-class are Kage. We don't have a single S-class skill or stat. The closest thing we've got is our Speed, which is 150(and thus, only halfway to S-rank) and Chakra Control, which is about the same level. Those are our only two A-rank skills, going by the current Character Sheet(unless I'm sleep-deprived and failed at reading). All of our other stuff is B-rank or less. We're NOT Kage-level. Or close enough to even think about getting there anytime soon. We're close enough that it is no longer a delusion or a dream, but it's still not anywhere near reality.
Hisana is... impressively close to Kage-level, for her age, but she is NOT Kage-level. Neither is she so close that simply doing any single thing will get her there. If I recall correctly, A-class skills are high Jounin, while S-class are Kage. We don't have a single S-class skill or stat. The closest thing we've got is our Speed, which is 150(and thus, only halfway to S-rank) and Chakra Control, which is about the same level. Those are our only two A-rank skills, going by the current Character Sheet(unless I'm sleep-deprived and failed at reading). All of our other stuff is B-rank or less. We're NOT Kage-level. Or close enough to even think about getting there anytime soon. We're close enough that it is no longer a delusion or a dream, but it's still not anywhere near reality.
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UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
It's not impossible if QM play the game in ridiculously short period, like each post is a few minutes of IC-times
But as we can see, Tekomandor isn't that crazy.
But as we can see, Tekomandor isn't that crazy.
If any of this was true, Cloud, the sole owners of the Waterfall of Truth, would have literally tens if not hundreds of S-class ninja.
Instead we see them trying to kidnap jinchuuuriki and Hyuga to increase their military power.
We see their second jinch get kidnapped by the Zombie Twins.
Sasuke had a mature Sharingan, the focused attention of an S-class mad scientist and his A-class medical jounin, was forcefed ninja steroids, a tailored Curse Seal for a power boost, and a customized training program.
He was S-class by the time Team 7 met him in Shippuden.
That entire process took three years.And it still wasn't enough to make him Kage-tier.
Each time he went up solo against an actual Kage-class shinobi, he got his ass comprehensively kicked.
And he foresaw this, hence the trouble he went to get a team for backup.
Itachi won his fight despite being terminally sick and at death's door. Danzo had him dead to rights. Killer Bee mortally wounded him twice.
Ei punched through his Susanoo, and Tobi had to pull his ass out of the fire.
Deidara is literally the only Kage class ninja canon Sasuke won a fight against solo.
The fact that you are claiming that canon power scaling allows anyone(not just Naruto or Bee, ANYONE) to jump power tiers by going through that suggests you need to refresh your memory.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
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- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- She/They
I remember reading that on the tvtropes page for "highly visible ninja", but it was referring to this, so I'm guessing that interpretation's been done a few times.
- Location
- United States
Since Naruto's fighting style revolves around using copies of himself as distractions, being highly visible arguably makes him more sneaky rather than less.
- Location
- Russia
In canon, in 1st chapter Naruto have learned multiple shadow clones jutsu in a matter of a few hours. Do you need more examples from canon?
In quest, it was when Hisana have gone to final round of previous chunin exam, learned array of new ninjutsu and gained direction for self-improvement.
Simple way for Uchiha to reach kage-level is to awaken magekyo power, for which one need to lose/kill best friend - sensible (but horrible) way to do that is to gift Uchiha kid a puppy and then k*ll it few years later.
Back to kage-level fights - they are very rare, very dangerous and usually involve bloodline powers. Main benefit for Uchiha observing such fight is chance to learn tactics and details of kage-level jutsu, filling lack of wisdom and experience. Uchiha with chakra-sensing and augumented reaction (like Hisana) can learn a lot more (about jutsu and chakra manipulation).
I agree, just being there isn't enough (even in xianxia), she need to observe that fight (using sharingan, chakra sensing and augumented reaction) and learn from it (using meditation to process all that information), find her own flaws and remove them.
Just to be clear, Hiruzen's physical stats (speed, strength, stamina) are 3, which should translate into B-rank in quest metrics. Hisana surpass him in speed, lags behind in strength and equal in chakra reserves. While she lags far behind in nin/tai/genjutsu, she can learn those from that fight along with corresponding tactics. Also observation of chakra usage/application/control in that fight would reveal her own flaws in terms of control. So after that battle she would need to improve her strength (1-rank) and chakra control (1-rank), which is literally two steps to kage-level (without breaking frame of this quest).
Xianxia-like escalation isn't hero's growth, it's how world throws at him/her everything (good and bad) to make him/her stronger. Basically if Hiruzen would die or get injured, Hisana can become hokage in just a few days (literally), but then she will have to fight entire world.
Kage-level fights are rare and nobody would give Uchiha a piece of Kyubi to play around.
Spirit is literally half of chakra, so without inner peace - spirit remains disturbed, chakra remains disturbed, both control and strenght of such chakra are imperfect and incomplete. On other hand inner peace - calm spirit, calm chakra, both control and strength are at their maximum. Also original plan involved receiving some Kyubi's chakra from Naruto.
You are forgetting that his previous education and training was lacking, so most of his time under Orochimaru was dedicated to fixing that (same applies to Naruto and Jiraiya). Basically current in-quest Naruto, Sasuke and Hisana should be close to post-timeskip Naruto and Sasuke (except 3 years earlier).
Any jinchuriki with sharingan would benefit massively from such training. But overall inner peace should significantly improve chakra control and strength of chakra.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Naruto is the reincarnation of Ninja Jesus - his absurd learning speeds for certain Jutsus are not applicable to everyone, as shown by them being explicitly called out as abnormally fast.
Uchiha do not become Kage class fighters because their puppy got killed. I need you to think about how the setting would look like if getting the Mangekyo was that easy, and notice how it doesn't match canon Naruto at all.
(Side note: You really don't need to censor the word "kill".)
Hisana will not suddenly rank-up in any of her skills even if she focuses and meditates very hard on a fight that she's in absolutely no position to meditate on as of the last update. That's not how the Sharingan works in Seeing Red, and honestly, isn't how it works in canon either.
Neither Naruto nor Seeing Red are xianxia. If Hiruzen dies, Hisana will not be the replacement, any more than Naruto was the replacement in Naruto canon.
Sasuke's canon education wasn't lacking. You can tell, because he gets called a prodigy by fucking everyone and graduated at the top of his class.
Meditation to calm the spirit will probably have a positive impact on chakra control, yes. But you've been pulling absurd numbers like "doubling" out of your ass, and that has no basis in, uh... anything? And frankly, even if it was trivial to get S-Class chakra control, doing so wouldn't make us Kage level, unless you're arguing that Sakura Haruno currently qualifies.
Hisana is no where close to kage level, as a lot of kage level comes from pure skill.
Hiruzen who is way beyond his prime was still able to fight off Orochimaru, and a weakened first and second hokage. This is the same orochimaru who could beat up kyubi cloak naruto with his bare hands.
S rank in general is a different tier from A rank. Going off Xianxia terms it's the difference between foundation establishment and Core formation.
Just because we have some Medium A rank skills does not mean we are anywhere close to kage level, let alone S rank.
Hiruzen who is way beyond his prime was still able to fight off Orochimaru, and a weakened first and second hokage. This is the same orochimaru who could beat up kyubi cloak naruto with his bare hands.
S rank in general is a different tier from A rank. Going off Xianxia terms it's the difference between foundation establishment and Core formation.
Just because we have some Medium A rank skills does not mean we are anywhere close to kage level, let alone S rank.
Top of his class Uchiha Sasuke. Rookie of the Year Uchiha Sasuke. Prodigy Uchiha Sasuke.
Team 7 Uchiha Sasuke, whose entire team's initial training was overseen by Hatake Kakashi.
The Uchiha Sasuke that Kakashi took off an entire month to train exclusively during the Chuunin Exams.
That is a preposterous claim.
Citation.
Because at the moment you are making claims with no backing.
Warning: Warning
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
warning
@verynew - please do not cut up others arguments into extremely small segments. This is known as 'spaghetti posting' and is considered a breach of rule four. Because this is your first time, I have given you a warning for marginal beheaviour and a three day threadban instead of an infraction.
In general, please be a bit more civil when debating each other everyone.
In general, please be a bit more civil when debating each other everyone.
Here are my thoughts on the matter of Kages and S-rank skills from earlier in the thread: