Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
Dark as Silver said:
Worth pointing out, that Thorek Stonefoot did not base his argument on a previous time that Thungni said "That rune is bad and you should feel bad."
So not exactly using a position on X to determine Y.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While true, I think the argument falls apart because my position is that the ""That rune is bad and you should feel bad." is the result and not the cause.

IE: Because X (right to offer information) doesn't exist, Y (don't show off or offer bad runes) position is correct which result in Z (Your rune is bad and it's fight worthy to censure you or force you to stop)
 
Last edited:
Pempelune said:
And if Thungni absolutely wanted whoever finds the Hammer to become his Heir, he could have said so 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think he made it clear that they're equivilant to Snorri at least.
soulcake said:
To claim the Hammer is to claim the seat of one Lost.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Get hammer == Be Heir
E:
Evillevi said:
While true, I think the argument falls apart because my position is that the ""That rune is bad and you should feel bad." is the result and not the cause.

IE: Because X (right to offer information) doesn't exist, Y (don't show off bad runes) position is correct which result in Z (Your rune is bad and it's fight worthy to censure you or force you to stop)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The issue was not that the right to offer information doesn't exist, the issue was that bad information was offered.
Escalating to a fight was just being dwarfy, but we wouldn't support Snorri's right to offer information that the world is flat and birds aren't real.
Perhaps the reason your explaination needs three hoops to jump through in order to reach the result is that you're forcing the conclusion from an incorrect premise.
 
Last edited:
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???

In my reading of Gift Giver's character, he would not consider anyone as valid for the title of Thungni's Heir, let alone himself.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yeah I'm sure when the Time of Woes came around those dwarfs were glad you didn't build anymore ancestral grade weapons or train more runesmiths in place of this boondoggle.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thungni can't predict an apocalypse.
Lokimotion said:
The only reason Kazador was there is because he learned of our group and followed us down. He still had to complete the trials, but we led him right to them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Let me be clear, all you did was speed him along at best. He came here independently all the way from Karak Varn. He didn't follow you, he learned about group of old Dawi no one knew were going down into the depths of Izril a bit before him when he arrived at the Hold with his party and did a bit of scoping and snooping around in preparation. Even then, he didn't begin to put two and two together until he saw the remnants of a camp on his way to the cavern. He was rollling well enough that if you started any later than this turn there would be nothing there and that hammer in his hands.
 
soulcake said:
Thungni can't predict an apocalypse.

Let me be clear, all you did was speed him along at best. He came here independently all the way from Karak Varn. He didn't follow you, he learned about group of old Dawi no one knew were going down into the depths of Izril a bit before him when he arrived at the Hold with his party and did a bit of scoping and snooping around in preparation. Even then, he didn't begin to put two and two together until he saw the remnants of a camp on his way to the cavern. He was rollling well enough that if you started any later than this turn there would be nothing there and that hammer in his hands.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well that was fortunate and a little surprising you're rolling for people in the background like this.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.

Edit: Honestly just voting to get to 300 votes total
 
soulcake said:
He was rollling well enough that if you started any later than this turn there would be nothing there and that hammer in his hands.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"It's Thungni's fault for being an idiot in how he set up the riddle, we didn't know it might be for becoming heir, which is why we put it on the backburner"

But also:

"Snorri is the best dwarf for being Thungni's heir"

Despite:

"Snorri's idea of being an heir would be to fit Thungni's ideals and actions like a glove"

Anyone calling Thungni an idiot who should have communicated more and still voting for becoming heir is basically saying Snorri should become an idiot who should communicate more.

Either put more respect on the Ancestor God's name, and accept that he had his reasons for acting like he did, or change your vote.

Don't call Thungni stupid and then vote to emulate his legacy.
 
Last edited:
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
The Trials spat out Snorri, who is apprentice to Durin's apprentice and is just a few steps away from cracking the riddle that destroyed Durin.

Sounds like the Trials worked pretty well in singling out someone who is worthy.
 
Pempelune said:
And if Thungni absolutely wanted whoever finds the Hammer to become his Heir, he could have said so 🤷‍♂️
People speak of this as if it was a duty imposed by Thungni, but it is merely an offer. Thungni granted us a choice here, not an obligation. It is perfectly fair of us to refuse it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He kinda did that with the genral ancestor vagueness via the varied tests and poem
 
Deadly Snark said:
The Trials spat out Snorri, who is apprentice to Durin's apprentice and is just a few steps away from cracking the riddle that destroyed Durin.

Sounds like the Trials worked pretty well in singling out someone who is worthy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Barely, it could have just as easily have been Kazador Ironwill and in any case if the objective was to get Snori he could have just gotten Snori, if the objective was to get someone who could pass specific tests he could have just administered the tests. There is nothing to be gained by automating the process and a lot to lose in terms of time and fidelity of the results. Look it's like... who would you rather grade your college essays a professor or Chat GPT? That is what all the golems and the whatsits and the gormil whatevers are, a worse version of Chat GPT.
 
Deadly Snark said:
The Trials spat out Snorri, who is apprentice to Durin's apprentice and is just a few steps away from cracking the riddle that destroyed Durin.

Sounds like the Trials worked pretty well in singling out someone who is worthy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If this were a monarchy you'd be almost right except for the number of direct apprentices and relatives of Thungni's who got skipped over.
So obviously that wasn't a major factor.
And we're way more than a few steps from cracking Durins Consternation. Windsight is the first foot in the door. Theres way more stuff to figure out after that.
 
DragonParadox said:
Barely, it could have just as easily have been Kazador Ironwill and in any case if the objective was to get Snori he could have just gotten Snori, if the objective was to get someone who could pass specific tests he could have just administered the tests. There is nothing to be gained by automating the process and a lot to lose in terms of time and fidelity of the results. Look it's like... who would you rather grade your college essays a professor or Chat GPT? That is what all the golems and the whatsits and the gormil whatevers are, a worse version of Chat GPT.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And if Kazador Ironwill had succeeded the trial, he would have been worthy too. The Trials would have still done their job. Soulcake was explicit that the guy was rolling like a champ and is an incredibly accomplished Runelord.

But he didn't and we did. Success needs no excuse
 
Last edited:
Dark as Silver said:
I think he made it clear that they're equivilant to Snorri at least.

Get hammer == Be Heir
E:

The issue was not that the right to offer information doesn't exist, the issue was that bad information was offered.
Escalating to a fight was just being dwarfy, but we wouldn't support Snorri's right to offer information that the world is flat and birds aren't real.
Perhaps the reason your explaination needs three hoops to jump through in order to reach the result is that you're forcing the conclusion from an incorrect premise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Perhaps that is the nature with arguing that the negative / absence of something is meaningful. We do know that the lack of any real anything on any position is a problem, but there's admittedly not much evidence to see what that looks like since we are focused in the North where the problems are unlikely to occur.

For me the interpretation that you offer feels incomplete however. Because you're combining different aspect of the encounter to me, oversimplifying where I'm overcomplicating it.

To me at the end of the day, the core observation was that Thungni had to slap someone down for trying to censure us (technically he was arguing our work was shoddy, but the result would have been similar regardless of the specifics) indicates something beyond the usual they don't like us. Unlike with say Snorri Whitebeard coronation where the arguing happened after the ancestors dissapeared, whathisname did that while Thungni was right there.
 
Deadly Snark said:
And if Kazador Ironwill had succeeded the trial, he would have been worthy too. The Trials would have still done their job. Soulcake was explicit that the guy was rolling like a champ and is an incredibly accomplished Runelord.

But he didn't and we did. Success needs no justification.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That is circular logic, the trial was a good idea because whoever the trial selects would be a good result.

Success does need justification, otherwise blind luck is identical to a good process. a very bad philosophy to adopt in the long run.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is circular logic, the trial was a good idea because whoever the trial selects would be a good result.

Success does need justification, otherwise blind luck is identical to a good process. a very bad philosophy to adopt in the long run.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And the Success is passing the Trials designed by the Ancestor God to select an Heir. Twisting yourself into going "hmm actually Thungni's an idiot" does you no favor. If you do not want Snorri to be Heir, then simply say so and throw the Hammer away/give it to someone worthier. Simple as.

Trials and exams have been accepted for as long as recorded history.
 
Last edited:
Deadly Snark said:
And the Success is passing the Trials designed by the Ancestor God to select an Heir. Twisting yourself into going "hmm actually Thungni's an idiot" does you no favor. If you do not want Snorri to be Heir, then simply say so and throw the Hammer away/give it to someone worthier. Simple as.

Trials and exams have been accepted for as long as recorded history.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Argument from Authority does nothing for me. I'm not a Warhammer dwarf. I believed this thing was stupid from the moment we showed up to it and I have the posts to back it up. My present vote to refuse or past vote to accept has nothing to do with that.
 
Being fair, this trial was excessive.

It's not a true trial of mentality because the few participants are already on an exclusive short list of acceptable candidates via Thungni's own actions.

It's not a true trial of skill because all candidates are simply not yet as good as the Second generation and hat to be made easier.
 
Heavygenium said:
Anyone calling Thungni an idiot who should have communicated more and still voting for becoming heir is basically saying Snorri should become an idiot who should communicate more.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sorry but I'm not sure who falls into this category?
As far as I can tell anyone who agrees with the premise that the trial was stupid also has voted to refuse the heir.
Deadly Snark said:
And if Kazador Ironwill had succeeded the trial, he would have been worthy too. The Trials would have still done their job. Soulcake was explicit that the guy was rolling like a champ and is an incredibly accomplished Runelord.

But he didn't and we did. Success needs no excuse
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In that case the trials did nothing, Thungni decided who would be a worthy heir when he gave out the riddles.
The trial was no more than picking a name out of a hat.
E:
Evillevi said:
Being fair, this trial was excessive.

It's not a true trial of mentality because the few participants are already on an exclusive short list of acceptable candidates via Thungni's own actions.

It's not a true trial of skill because all candidates are simply not yet as good as the Second generation and hat to be made easier.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Worst of all its not a push towards the limits of runecraft because only Snorri and Kazador will ever see it since the whole thing fell apart.
Would it have been too hard to have a tablet to carve our name in at the end so that everyone who comes from now on will know the people who came before?
 
Last edited:
Dark as Silver said:
Sorry but I'm not sure who falls into this category?
As far as I can tell anyone who agrees with the premise that the trial was stupid also has voted to refuse the heir.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not me, I know it's overly dramatic but I voted to claim it anyway
Dark as Silver said:
Worst of all its not a push towards the limits of runecraft because only Snorri and Kazador will ever see it since the whole thing fell apart.
Would it have been too hard to have a tablet to carve our name in at the end so that everyone who comes from now on will know the people who came before?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Being fair Thungni doesn't seem to actively like to show off about the upper limit of Rune crafts outside of rare occasion. I think the idea that Thungni is such a savant that he cannot translate his knowledge to ordinary dawi is the most appropriate idea so far.
 
Really sad Thungni destroyed the dungeon i thought we could use it to send people their who deserves such opportunity or send the Riddle to the Burudin to inspire them
 
Evillevi said:
Being fair Thungni doesn't seem to actively like to show off about the upper limit of Rune crafts outside of rare occasion. I think the idea that Thungni is such a savant that he cannot translate his knowledge to ordinary dawi is the most appropriate idea so far.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Even if that is the case he could have not blown it up. Things that are not blown up, famously easier to understand. :V
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top