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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Similar but different to Snorri. The martial focused trials would be cakewalk. Stuff like Concealment and Vision would be tougher.

Snorri having the advantage that he is a player character so players can just figure out the correct answers to riddles put up for vote and in a sense "autopass" things with a player vote, while Kazador has to make rolls which could fail.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
Don't think there's a right or wrong answer, really, but forging our own path instead of following in Thungni's shadow (noble a task as that is) just gels more with me. Also I'd feel sort of cheap using the clout of claiming the position of Thungni's heir to ram our decisions down our detractor's throats, funny as Vragni's face would be. Also also we just got that new AP and knocked off so much research progress, and I don't want to have to waste it on doing a bunch of political finagling or whatever.
Also uh, I really don't mean this as fearmongering or trying to sway people so please don't take it as that, but I can't help but think that claiming the title of Thungni's heir here has the makings of a genuine political shitstorm, like way worse then Khazagar, considering our...contentious position, politically, and our (unwillingly on our part) slowly forming faction among the Runesmiths. Also also I have to admit that holding on to and using the hammer while waiting for some Valten-like Runesmithing messianic figure to finally bequeath it to scratches a narrative itch for me.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
[x] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.

IMO this is not a vote about if Snorri is Thungni's heir, but if Snorri views himself as Thungni's heir. This is a fine but important distinction. Others are free to draw their own conclusions (just as they would if we claimed the title).

Which, as a bit of a side note, is actually kinda important. I think the arch-conservatives (including Vragni. Especially Vragni) would reject us as the Heir no matter what, and would in fact use that claim to double down even further of their dislike of Snorri since to them it would be the height of arrogance for Snorri to declare himself as such. OTOH not delcaring ourselves as heir doesn't prevent anyone who likes us from seeing us overcome the hurdles Thungni put in our way to test us before allowing us to claim his hammer as being a "close enough" type thing for Snorri being his heir.

Further side note: I'm fairly confident Thungni didn't give Vrangi a riddle to test him. His petty obsession with Snorri is a failure of character, so I think Thungni passed him over.
 
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Also uh, I really don't mean this as fearmongering or trying to sway people so please don't take it as that, but I can't help but think that claiming the title of Thungni's heir here has the makings of a genuine political shitstorm, like way worse then Khazagar, considering our...contentious position, politically, and our (unwillingly on our part) slowly forming faction among the Runesmiths. Also also I have to admit that holding on to and using the hammer while waiting for some Valten-like Runesmithing messianic figure to finally bequeath it to scratches a narrative itch for me.
whatever we choose, there will be a shitstorm incoming and we can do nothing.
 
Also uh, I really don't mean this as fearmongering or trying to sway people so please don't take it as that, but I can't help but think that claiming the title of Thungni's heir here has the makings of a genuine political shitstorm, like way worse then Khazagar, considering our...contentious position, politically, and our (unwillingly on our part) slowly forming faction among the Runesmiths. Also also I have to admit that holding on to and using the hammer while waiting for some Valten-like Runesmithing messianic figure to finally bequeath it to scratches a narrative itch for me.

I think you are confusing dwarfs and humans, the idea of handing the hammer to some beardling when we are three thousand years old or something would be a source of great shame IMO.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???.You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
IMO this is not a vote about if Snorri is Thungni's heir, but if Snorri views himself as Thungni's heir. This is a fine but important distinction. Others are free to draw their own conclusions (just as they would if we claimed the title).
This is a vote to be Thungni's heir. It's just that if Snorri refuses he occupies the same Shrodinger heir position that Alric takes via utter refusal and self sabotage and the Rune Guild will eventually succumb to stagnation if a proper heir is not found.

PS: You're technically right, it just that the resolution after a few turn is there's no official heir and the guild is still stuck unable to truly advance on it's own.
 
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[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
This is a vote to be Thungni's heir. It's just that if Snorri refuses he occupies the same Shrodinger heir position that Alric takes via utter refusal and self sabotage and the Rune Guild will eventually succumb to stagnation if a proper heir is not found.
As has been said before, if the Rune Guild is so weak that it would fold without Snorri's personal attention, then it deserves to fail.
 
As has been said before, if the Rune Guild is so weak that it would fold without Snorri's personal attention, then it deserves to fail.
Not quite.

The Guild needs anyuone as a vague leader to function. Currently all qualified candidates can't or absolutely refuse to take charge. No Dawi institution can survive under such a scenario

Alric is going on a couple of centuries of abject refusal. Yorri just removed himself from history, etc.
 
[x] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
This is a vote to be Thungni's heir. It's just that if Snorri refuses he occupies the same Shrodinger heir position that Alric takes via utter refusal and self sabotage and the Rune Guild will eventually succumb to stagnation if a proper heir is not found.

PS: You're technically right, it just that the resolution after a few turn is there's no official heir and the guild is still stuck unable to truly advance on it's own.
It's a vote on if we want Snorri to assume the mantle of Thungni's Heir.

The question of if he actually is Thungni's Heir is a separate matter. (The answer is yes. Both because he earned the hammer, but also because Snorri best carries Durin's Will.)
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
It's a vote on if we want Snorri to assume the mantle of Thungni's Heir.

The question of if he actually is Thungni's Heir is a separate matter. (This answer is yes. Both because he earned the hammer, but also because Snorri best carries Durin's Will.)
idk what else to say boss. You either accept and are Thungni's heir both internally and publicly or you don't.
As I understand we are Thungni Heir the same way Alric and Yorri are Thungni's heir if we refused. Saying no will have us actively not mention about the "Claim the seat of one Lost" which is kinda the crux of becoming the Heir apparent.

Simply having the hammer doesn't give us the right of being the Heir.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
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