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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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soulcake said:
The only obligation you have is the upfront favour cost. Anything else is entirely if you want to. I thought it was clear you aren't being asked to fund or participate in the founding of these Holds, Freyda's plan is more akin to getting people thinking and willing to settle these already built fortresses.
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:whistle::whistle::whistle:
 
soulcake said:
The options unlocked by either choice have to do with the fact that a large part of the North is being settled and your Hearth Guard can do stuff there if you so choose.

The only obligation you have is the upfront favour cost. Anything else is entirely if you want to. I thought it was clear you aren't being asked to fund or participate in the founding of these Holds, Freyda's plan is more akin to getting people thinking and willing to settle these already built fortresses.
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My worry is we'll need every bit of good favour to pull off the Runehall.
Once that's done, and we're less busy, maybe we can support the new settlements another way.
Make them all rune items, for instance
 
[X] [Support:] Fully Support the proposal.
Freyda will almost assuredly get the Northern Kings to agree to her proposal and with good odds of them agreeing to ideas she considered outside her reach before. You'd be throwing your weight around in this manner, and it will show. With Silverbrand in Ornsmotek there's sure to be pushback there because of it. Gain +2 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [70 Favours from Kraka Ornsmotek, 50 Favours from Kraka Dorden, and Ravnsvake, 30 Favours with Kraka Drakk]
 
This is such a tight race.

I understand, burning so many favors is a big investment, though I think it's worth it.
 
Dragonofelder said:
My worry is we'll need every bit of good favour to pull off the Runehall.
Once that's done, and we're less busy, maybe we can support the new settlements another way.
Make them all rune items, for instance
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I mean, I literally spoke about what happens if you go into negative favour. It just means you owe them...you know... favours.

Vote partial if you want and try to stay above 0 favour if thats your prerogative, but I want to make it clear going into negative favour will not be the end of the world.
 
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soulcake said:
I mean, I literally spoke about what happens if you go into negative favour. It just means you owe them...you know... favours.
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Wording it like that makes me worried about what kind of ...favours they'd ask for.

Anyway, personally I think them being in debt to us is better than us being in debt to them.
 
Dragonofelder said:
My worry is we'll need every bit of good favour to pull off the Runehall.
Once that's done, and we're less busy, maybe we can support the new settlements another way.
Make them all rune items, for instance
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That seems to lie more within the politics of the runesmiths and runelords as a greater whole rather than the north. Because, we're just using our influence to give the go ahead for more colonization, more of our adversaries in guilds politics will take issue with it.

Not that the idea itself is bad, even the grouchiest longbeaed admits we made more colonization of the world edge mountains as a good thing for the greater Ankor. The more likely political fallout is that it's use promoting it more than anything else.

Hence with partial support, vragi is rather silent, but the moment we actively proclaim it as a idea to follow through with, vragi gets surely. Which is just more of the politics of who is promoting it, rather than the idea by itself.


Which if we're going into favors, then it's just a case of us being asked to say, give a mater crafted runic axe to the kings son, or something along the line. Most of which can be delegated to either karstah, or the rest of the hearthgaurd, rather than ourselves personally. This just seems like a problem we could literally solve next turn be going and sending a hearthguard action to give us a flat 0 on favours for them, and for us.
 
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Dragonofelder said:
Wording it like that makes me worried about what kind of ...favours they'd ask for.

Anyway, personally I think them being in debt to us is better than us being in debt to them.
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What favors would you ask from the oldest runelord of the north?

Ornsmotek would have 10 Snorri favor: A pittance, really.

If the Retainers do a thing for them, it's resolved.
 
[X] [Support:] Fully Support the proposal.
Freyda will almost assuredly get the Northern Kings to agree to her proposal and with good odds of them agreeing to ideas she considered outside her reach before. You'd be throwing your weight around in this manner, and it will show. With Silverbrand in Ornsmotek there's sure to be pushback there because of it. Gain +2 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [70 Favours from Kraka Ornsmotek, 50 Favours from Kraka Dorden, and Ravnsvake, 30 Favours with Kraka Drakk]

Sticking to my original vote. :)
 
CanYouMeme said:
Xep makes a good point, roka does not.

Gain +2 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [70 Favours from Kraka Ornsmotek, 50 Favours from Kraka Dorden, and Ravnsvake, 30 Favours with Kraka Drakk]

That's a hefty chunk of favor to burn, at a time when Snorri hasn't even begun to properly build his Runehall. Which is almost certainly going to cost a fuckload more favor to offset the fact that Snorri is literally straddling the line that separates "We grudgingly allow this" from "You've pissed off the fucking Runelord's Guild of the Karaz Ankor, time to shave your beard." Which is exacerbated by the fact that you folks voted to use favor and get Kraka Drakk involved in building it. If that shit goes south, Snorri and his relations aren't the only ones who get fucked by it.

And if you swing by the Standing & Favor informational post, you will note that Snorri only has 40 favor with Ravnsvake. Your proposed plan puts him in debt and contractually binds him to spend time he can ill afford doing whatever it is Ravnsvake wants in return.

A compromise plan I would propose, and would appreciate WoQM from @soulcake to confirm its validity - Choose partial support, then we all make a plan that spends that 200 favor in a way that doesn't leave Snorri contractually obligated to spend time he can't afford and leaves him hefty reserves to weather what else may come. Say, 100 from Kraka Drak, and 50 each from Ornsmotek and Grom.

EDIT: plus, we can use our retainer actions to help the resettlement and keep an eye on things. And the amount of favor we use for further planning can be dialed up and down as needed.
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you could argue however that greater standing with the cults is worth more than favors with the holds as the former is a larger organization overall. we would have the backing of both the cult of valaya and thugni on our side with grungni as well potentially with more metal research.
 
soulcake said:
The options unlocked by either choice have to do with the fact that a large part of the North is being settled and your Hearth Guard can do stuff there if you so choose.

The only obligation you have is the upfront favour cost. Anything else is entirely if you want to. I thought it was clear you aren't being asked to fund or participate in the founding of these Holds, Freyda's plan is more akin to getting people thinking and willing to settle these already built fortresses.
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soulcake said:
I mean, I literally spoke about what happens if you go into negative favour. It just means you owe them...you know... favours.

Vote partial if you want and try to stay above 0 favour if thats your prerogative, but I want to make it clear going into negative favour will not be the end of the world.
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Sounds to me like people are massively overestimating what our full support will cost us.
 
basically support options is what snorri will say if asked his opinion about the colonization idea

*snorts approvingly* approve
*snorts somewhat approvingly* semiapprove
*snorts some gravel* yorri was just here
 
For me it's not the upfront mechanical cost but the mention of political pushback from it right when we're already running on a hope and a prayer politically with the rune hall. But at this point I don't really mind which, and it looks like it'll be a coin flip regardless.

Shout out to the one guy that voted no support though :V
 
Yeah, it's pretty surprising that this thing has been as close as it were. I'm hoping that thing can be resolved with a few finals votes by midnight tonight.
 
[X] [Support:] Fully Support the proposal.
Freyda will almost assuredly get the Northern Kings to agree to her proposal and with good odds of them agreeing to ideas she considered outside her reach before. You'd be throwing your weight around in this manner, and it will show. With Silverbrand in Ornsmotek there's sure to be pushback there because of it. Gain +2 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [70 Favours from Kraka Ornsmotek, 50 Favours from Kraka Dorden, and Ravnsvake, 30 Favours with Kraka Drakk]
 
[X] [Support:] Partially Support the proposal.
Freyda will likely see her proposal agreed to, but anything beyond the minimum will be on her and her alone. Your word carries weight, and you suppose this is as good a use for it as any. Gain +1 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [30 Favours from Kraka Dorden, Ornsmotek and Ravnsvake, 10 Favours with Kraka Drakk]
 
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Laurent said:
[X] [Line:] In general. There has only been one, and with Valaya as your witness, there will only ever be one. From the moment you wed you belonged to each other, and not even death would have you break that oath.
[X] [Support:] Partially Support the proposal.
Freyda will likely see her proposal agreed to, but anything beyond the minimum will be on her and her alone. Your word carries weight, and you suppose this is as good a use for it as any. Gain +1 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [30 Favours from Kraka Dorden, Ornsmotek and Ravnsvake, 10 Favours with Kraka Drakk]
[X] The Statue. You're fairly sure that being around the big Rune statue with your equipment will only improve its capabilities.

[X] A messenger from Kraka Krum, bearing a letter with the seal of Ogra Wardmaker.
[X] A band of Runesmiths muttering to each other at levels they think are quiet.
[X] Let them come to you. Random Encounter.
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Most of the vote is already done, it's just the support vote that we're all stuck on.
 
Adhoc vote count started by soulcake on Jun 1, 2022 at 5:54 PM, finished with 568 posts and 279 votes.
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I might take another day before I close the vote, Its still incredibly close.

Voikirium said:
Some more Runes:

Rune of Sparks: A simple weapons Rune, a single copy makes a weapon burn hot enough that it sets the enemy on fire. Two copies make it glow cherry red, weakening armor as it strikes and damaging the structural integrity. Three copies make it glow bright white, hot enough that even dragon scale begins to melt--and magic itself starts to burn away.
Rune of Cinder: A weapon rune, a single copy leaves a weapon wreathed in minor flames, not equal to the Rune of Fire but sufficient for just about any job you'd want the Rune of Fire for, if you're willing to settle or are bound by the Rule of Pride. Two copies make the weapon burn hotter and brighter, leaving smoldering wounds that may never heal. With three copies, the heat and flames spread far enough that it can literally burn away arrows, bolts, so on and so forth.
Rune of Blazes: Bright blue fire pours off the edge of the weapon bearing a single copy of this rune. Two copies make them burn so hot that even a blow that misses might still burn the enemy badly enough to seriously wound. A third and, by slamming the weapon into the ground, a small burst of fire will explode around the bearer, smiting any who dare to surround them with ill intent.
Master Rune of Conflagration: An engineering rune unlike its kin for nothing smaller may safely contain its power, when applied to the great siege engines of the Karaz Ankor the bolts they shoot and rocks they throw explode in a storm of fire large enough to gut an entire line, opening mighty, horrific gaps.

All were created by Thalnir, who holds to a stringent interpretation of the Rune of Pride, and desired to expand his repetoire outside of Banners.
So all this talk about coming up with Runes to get around the Rule of Pride inspired me to make this. In TT terms the effects would be something like:

1 Copy: Flaming Attacks (all)
2 Copies: -1 AP (Rune of Sparks), -1 Toughness (Rune of Cinder), Reroll missed To Wound (Rune of Blazes)
3 Copies: Heroic Killing Blow (Rune of Sparks), 5+ Ward Save (Rune of Cinder), Strength 4 Small Template Attack (Rune of Blazes)

And then the Rune of Conflagaration would make the artillery its on use a template size up and flaming attacks.
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Sparks to Blazes: Okay. I may have to start figuring out a proper way to describe stacking effects.
Conflagration: added.
 
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Yeah, this honestly is way too close of a call to be decided now as it were. Maybe set the timer to end by midnight? That way we can get any last straggler votes finished up and counted before we get into the rest of the turn to read on.
 
[X] [Support:] Fully Support the proposal.
Freyda will almost assuredly get the Northern Kings to agree to her proposal and with good odds of them agreeing to ideas she considered outside her reach before. You'd be throwing your weight around in this manner, and it will show. With Silverbrand in Ornsmotek there's sure to be pushback there because of it. Gain +2 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [70 Favours from Kraka Ornsmotek, 50 Favours from Kraka Dorden, and Ravnsvake, 30 Favours with Kraka Drakk]
 
I will close the vote in a few hours, after thinking about it and discussing things, I don't think a clear lead will emerge nor do I think a day will meaningfully change anything. A close vote will be a close vote sometimes I suppose, but so help me if it ties again I may just flip a coin or something idk.

EDIT: literally tallied and it's tied. Gonna go scream into the void folks.
 
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