RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[Vokivas]

Something I'm not seeing a lot of people talk about is the dynamic of having pressure to do something with research, and how the total lack of that can lead to putting things off indefinitely. The argument that there will be more storms to make more boosted items makes perfect sense, but I feel like that puts the research and future project for the brain back even further. For example, I imagine that the next thing we want to use on the anvil is something like the Gronti.

All of that also comes back to the fact that I haven't seen any clear ideas for the brain to be used. That makes sense due to the nature of brains, and researching it will definitely help that. But even the general discussion seems to lean towards also needing to do the Gazul research.

Really though, even putting all of that aside I still feel like there's a lot of narrative and thematic weight here. The first brana, the first to Shaggoth to make a pact with Chaos, the first storm, and all of that.

I don't know, but I guess whatever kind of equation that I've got going for this dilemma just isn't really making me inclined to holding onto the brain even longer. As long as the quest lives I'm sure that we'd get around to using the brain, but things already seem like such a great opportunity.

 

[Jreengus]

Ok it's getting late and I need to sleep so incase Soulcake opens the vote tonight here are all the items I have proposed in plan format:

[ ] Plan: Bounty of the Deep
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: Bounty of the Deep 1 action
-- [ ] Master Rune of Snerra Magnasdottir (Adamant) + Rune of Spelleating (Prismatic Dragons Blood) + Rune of Stone (Troll Heart)
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 2: Bounty of the Deep 3 actions
-[ ] ORDER: T4 Carnosaur heart
- [ ] Waywarding 1 retainer action
-[ ] Render Aid:
-- [ ] The Throng is Mustered: 2 retainer actions

[ ] Plan: The Runesmiths Art
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: The Runesmiths Art 1 action
-- [ ] Master Rune of Snerra Magnasdottir (Adamant) + Rune of Sanctuary (Prismatic Dragon blood) + Rune of Guarding (Prismatic Dragon blood)
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 2: The Runesmiths Art 3 actions
-[ ] ORDER: T4 Carnosaur heart
- [ ] Waywarding 1 retainer action
-[ ] Render Aid:
-- [ ] The Throng is Mustered: 2 retainer actions

[ ] Plan: Bakaz A Branakroki
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: Bakaz A Branakroki 1 action
-- [ ] Master Rune of Flight (Sky King's Crest Feathers) + Rune of Cold (T2 (Juvenile?) Frost Wyrm heart) + Rune of Lightning (Dragon Ogre Heart)
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 2: Bakaz A Branakrok 3 actions
-[ ] ORDER: T2 (Juvenile?) Frost Wyrm heart
-- [ ] Kingly Expedite: Expedite so it arrives this turn
- [ ] Waywarding 1 retainer action
-[ ] Render Aid:
-- [ ] The Throng is Mustered: 2 retainer actions

Out of all of these I lean toward Bounty of the Deep myself. I think Snorri has killing stuff and not dying pretty well covered so I think something that enhances his fellow runesmiths and their abilities is most usefull addition to his capabilities, building on his runeherder trait. I'll also likely vote for UlseDovThur's amulet though I'd rather have our amplification item be a banner..

EDIT: Putting my other proposal in here so I have it easily availble, this is the one I'm probably going with when voting opens

[ ] Plan: Runelord's gift
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: Runelord's Gift - 1 action
-- [ ] Runestaff: Master Rune of Snerra Magnasdottir (Adamant) + Thungni (Adamant) + Fortitude (Troll Heart)
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 2: Runelord's Gift 3 actions - Use BA Zharrghal & The anvil of the earth
-[ ] ORDER: T4 Carnosaur heart
- [ ] Waywarding 1 retainer action
-[ ] Render Aid:
-- [ ] The Throng is Mustered: 2 retainer actions

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

That's a terrible argument since we still have two other runes we could put on the Gronti. On top of that we don't know the best use of the brain because we didn't do the research. It could be possible that it has uses we aren't aware of. And as people keep repeatedly pointing out the same exact argument applies to the brain with the cloak because people are making assumptions about it when they didn't do the research and are just rushing it because of the Storm.

Click to shrink...

I suppose we are rushing it yeah. But I consider the Storm to be worth it (and please don't bring up the "storm isn't that special" argument), I do not trust us to get around to researching the Brain any time soon, even I frankly have things I'm more interested in like Akazit or the Rune Metal, and Bungie's thing makes sense in its design and has such amazing possibilities and general use potential.

I do. I guess you missed it?

Click to shrink...

I suppose I did miss it, my bad. Still prefer the thematics of the cloak and doubling down on its potential.


I'm tired of arguing the same thing over and over. You guys won't convince me and history says likewise for you.

While I am pretty miffed the Gronti gets passed over again...

Themes have power in Warhammer and narratives have weight behind. So go for the snazzy coat.

I will swear a Grudge against anyone who aimes to use our next mythic item on anything but the Gronti though...

Click to shrink...

You got a Gronti plan? I'd vote for it too if it could work.

 

[naths]

...No one is saying that we should never use the brain. What people are suggesting is researching the brain before doing anything with it which is what we did end up doing with the Heart before coming to any conclusion to do with it. Hell, even with the Heart a lot of people did have ideas what to do with it after we did the research.

Also it's not really a good comparison because if we had known at least a turn ago that this storm was happening we would have definitely done research on our only T5 material.

Click to shrink...

We would have, but we didnt know so we didnt.
I know it is tempting to consider all the cool maybe possibilities we might get for the mat. But my impression is that mat research is very low priority atm, both due to having too much we want to do and mat research being sort of boring. I doubt we will ever actually research that thing because storms of magic if they follow the precedent here happen very suddenly.

I know it might feel a little bit like a waste to use the mat here, but it does nothing in our vault while here we have a chance to get a high tier item for our equipment set and that seems like a good trade to me

 

[Red Bovine]

Dunno. Not very interested in it right now tbh. I think the last time I thought about the Heir's set I wanted to make an ice themed counter part to the King's. In this particular instance I'd like to use the coordination aspects of the brain that I think exist, for the purposes of coordinating the sheer energy running through the hypothetical cloak and the Set (if it sets) as a whole.

Click to shrink...

That's the huge issue that people have. We don't know what the brain's properties actually are. In fact people seem to be missing the fact that it may end up wasting the brains full potential by using it for something it may not have been meant for or said something not using it to it's full potential. This is literally the same argument that people had for not using the brain for a potential Master Rune of Waking.

I'm gonna throw my two cents in with even though I really like the idea of the cloak and really want to use the brain, I feel like it without research would be a bit too risky and shows a lack of caution and due diligence that doesn't really fit Snorri in my mind. Like, on top of the risk of doing this in a magic storm, using the very valuable brain of a very powerful Chaos aligned creature without any research? That seems a bit out there.
Like sure, Snorri is fairly radical but I always viewed it as a "practicality>all" attitude. And possibly throwing away a T5 mat, or maybe even causing something dangerous out of it, just doesn't seem to fit that. So as much as a primordial storm cloak appeals to me I'm gonna say we shouldn't. Especially since we might not even end up with that if we do go through with it.

Click to shrink...

This^^ It really feels like people are only pushing to use the brain because it's a T5 item. If it was anything less I doubt that people would be pushing to use it here. Especially since Soulcake outright said that Snorri wouldn't be happy with it.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

Gahhh! Of all times to be late to the discussion!

Alright folks. With the storm of magic coming, I'm advocating we use this priceless opportunity to forge the last piece of our set combo at the Anvil of the Earth. Specifically, I want to advocate for an old idea of mine: The Gift of the Runelord.

Here's the original post for context, note that this was written before Snerra's discovery of the MR of Amplification.

Zaraz a Rhunrikki​

The Runelord's Gift is a cloak of Shard Wyrm hide, dyed to a pitch black deep, deep red. The cloak is clasped with an adamant cameo featuring Kraka Drakk, with a hearthstone of the highest quality socketed within the doors of the hold. The uneven texture of the hide gives the blackness an illusion of depth, as though staring into a deep cavern. Speckled across the cloak are dozens of Adamant and Pure Gromril four-pointed stars, affixed to the cloak with silver thread. The cloak is bordered with the Oaths of a Runelord, also embroidered in silver thread. Three adamant stars, larger by far than the rest, are placed in the center of the cloak. These are inscribed with the Rune of Stone, the Rune of Grungni, and the Master Rune of the Glittering Beacon.

Right now we have two defined pieces in our Panoply of gear - Barak Azamar and Zharrgal. We're also pretty set (or at least so it seems to me) on an MWandering amulet to increase our mobility. That leaves us with a cloak and an axe yet to work with. In terms of what functions those slots need to fill,

• This campaign has demonstrated pretty thoroughly that Zharrgal works exceedingly well as an AOE weapon, a crowd control weapon, and even pretty well as a single-target anti-hero weapon. Our axe slot can be pretty much anything, although we should probably make sure it deals some kind of damage other than heat.
• MWandering will replace our anti-magic amulet, so we need to make sure that one of these two slots fulfills that role.
• We also need to complete the Set Bonus with BA and Zharrgal. There've been a few proposed set themes (earth/fire/sky, etc.), but I'm firmly of the belief that the set should focus on the connection between Dawi and Stone. Barak Azamar represents the connection of Snorri the Individual, the dwarf of deep protective instincts, to that stony heritage. Zharrgal represents his connection to the deep magic of Stone through his craft and role as a runelord. What we need is something that represents his connection as a member of the dawi to stone. Something that highlights that deep cultural bond between the Dawi and the deep earth.

Some of you may remember my previous attempt at creating a cloak to match this description - MGrungni, Valaya and Stone. Forget about that one. Incomplete and uncertain in its direction.

We can create something much better by looking at how BA and Zharrgal's practical functions reinforce their thematic functions.

Barak Azamar draws massive amounts of deep magic from the earth and uses it to fuel both Snorri and other runic objects - just as Snorri the individual draws on his connection to stone to aid himself and others.

Zharrgal uses deep magic to empower creation and destruction on behalf of the dawi - just as a Runelord is both a creative craftsman and a offensive spellcaster.

With our third leg of the combo, we need something that thematically draws on the connection between the Dawi as a people and stone. To mirror that in practical function, I've realized we already have the perfect rune to draw - or at least, we will. I'm convinced it will be the Master Rune of Thungni, but in the meantime, we can just refer to it as MGlittering Beacon.

Looking at the initial combo, it's fairly simple in its function.

• The Rune of Spellbreaking disrupts enemy magics.
• The Rune of Spelleating absorbs the resultant loose energy.
• The Rune of Thungni then draws upon that pool of energy, and uses it to empower the 'casts' of Runelords in range of the banner.

It's another variant on a setup we've seen and used many times - redirecting the enemy's magical power against them. However, this won't do as it is. Empowering other runelords is too narrow; it is not representative of a connection between all dawi and stone.

So we expand that function.

• Start with the Rune of Stone. This has the simple function of representing the deep magic which we are drawing from the earth through Barak Azamar.
• Continue with the Rune of Grungni. We are employing this in both of its thematic facets - those of Dawi/Community/Heritage, and Redirection. We are both using this to represent the connection between dawi and stone, and to specifically state that the deep magic drawn by this cloak is to be directed to all dawi.
• Then, finally, we add the Master Rune of the Glittering Beacon. Normally, this would take the deep magic from BA through the rune of stone and empower Runelords, but Grungni prevents that by spreading the energy more broadly. So instead, it uses the deep magic to fulfill the other aspect of Thungni's remit - the runes themselves.

What you end up with is a cloak which, combined with BA and Zharrgal, empowers all runes within the field of the bannercloak's influence with deep magic. And given Snorri's work for the throng of Kraka Drakk over the past few centuries, that is a lot of runes indeed.

It is, in a way, simply Snorri Gift-Giver writ in a single item. He makes the lives of the dwarves around him better by gifting them Runic magic.

Click to shrink...

Now, it's pretty clear that Snerra scooped us on MGlittering Beacon with her MAmplification, but that just makes things simpler.

Think of it. A cloak that empowers the throng's runic equipment, as we march to war. And making use of the Storm of Magic? I can't think of a more powerful way to round out the set, or one more in keeping with the character of Snorri, the Gift-Giver.

So @soulcake, would you accept this as a write-in?

[ ] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 1: It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of purest gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)
.
[ ] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 2: Adamant and Shard Wyrm Hide It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)

If accepted, my plan would look something like:

[] Plan: Once in a Lifetime
-[] Waywarding: 1 Retainer Action
-[] The Throng is Mustered: 2 Retainer Actions
-[] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 1: 1 Action
It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of purest gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)
-[] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 2: 3 Actions It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)
--[] Forge at the Anvil of the Earth, wear Barak Azamar and use Zharrgal
-[] ORDER: T3 Oathgold


Edit: Of course a Troll's Heart makes perfect sense for pulling deep magic from the rune of stone. Excellent idea, @Jreengus.

 

[UlseDovThur]

Ok it's getting late and I need to sleep so incase Soulcake opens the vote tonight here are all the items I have proposed in plan format:

[ ] Plan: Bounty of the Deep
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: Bounty of the Deep 1 action
-- [ ] Master Rune of Snerra Magnasdottir (Adamant) + Rune of Spelleating (Prismatic Dragons Blood) + Rune of Stone (Troll Heart)
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 2: Bounty of the Deep 3 actions
-[ ] ORDER: T4 Carnosaur heart
- [ ] Waywarding 1 retainer action
-[ ] Render Aid:
-- [ ] The Throng is Mustered: 2 retainer actions

[ ] Plan: The Runesmiths Art
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: The Runesmiths Art 1 action
-- [ ] Master Rune of Snerra Magnasdottir (Adamant) + Rune of Sanctuary (Prismatic Dragon blood) + Rune of Guarding (Prismatic Dragon blood)
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 2: The Runesmiths Art 3 actions
-[ ] ORDER: T4 Carnosaur heart
- [ ] Waywarding 1 retainer action
-[ ] Render Aid:
-- [ ] The Throng is Mustered: 2 retainer actions

[ ] Plan: Bakaz A Branakroki
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: Bakaz A Branakroki 1 action
-- [ ] Master Rune of Flight (Sky King's Crest Feathers) + Rune of Cold (T2 (Juvenile?) Frost Wyrm heart) + Rune of Lightning (Dragon Ogre Heart)
- [ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 2: Bakaz A Branakrok 3 actions
-[ ] ORDER: T2 (Juvenile?) Frost Wyrm heart
-- [ ] Kingly Expedite: Expedite so it arrives this turn
- [ ] Waywarding 1 retainer action
-[ ] Render Aid:
-- [ ] The Throng is Mustered: 2 retainer actions

Out of all of these I lean toward Bounty of the Deep myself. I think Snorri has killing stuff and not dying pretty well covered so I think something that enhances his fellow runesmiths and their abilities is most usefull addition to his capabilities, building on his runeherder trait. I'll also likely vote for UlseDovThur's amulet though I'd rather have our amplification item be a banner..

Click to shrink...

Lagg made a plan for it.

 

[JohnGaster2000]

I would like to point this out in case others haven't. This is the first storm of magic, this is Snorri turning 1000, and this could be the final item of our set think of the narrative and what Soul could do with that.

 

[MrHobbit]

Something I'm not seeing a lot of people talk about is the dynamic of having pressure to do something with research, and how the total lack of that can lead to putting things off indefinitely. The argument that there will be more storms to make more boosted items makes perfect sense, but I feel like that puts the research and future project for the brain back even further. For example, I imagine that the next thing we want to use on the anvil is something like the Gronti.

All of that also comes back to the fact that I haven't seen any clear ideas for the brain to be used. That makes sense due to the nature of brains, and researching it will definitely help that. But even the general discussion seems to lean towards also needing to do the Gazul research.

Really though, even putting all of that aside I still feel like there's a lot of narrative and thematic weight here. The first brana, the first to Shaggoth to make a pact with Chaos, the first storm, and all of that.

I don't know, but I guess whatever kind of equation that I've got going for this dilemma just isn't really making me inclined to holding onto the brain even longer. As long as the quest lives I'm sure that we'd get around to using the brain, but things already seem like such a great opportunity.

Click to shrink...

You vastly underestimate the thread's ability to learn from mistakes if you think that the Thread is going to continue to studiously ignore mat research, leaving us open to... this.

I mean, it's not like I am going to let the thread ignore the lesson from this storm of magic.

We don't have clear ideas for the brain because we have no idea what brains can even be used for.

The narrative that Snorri is most likely going to lean on in the production of this cloak is that he bumbled around like a beardling and risked ruining a cloak he had planned to replace his wife's cloak. A rather, concerning, lack of care and thought, no?

This is a reminder that the Slayer Cult came around for a reason. The idea that most Dwarfs would look at the positive side of things, ignoring everything they did wrong, is ridiculous.

 

[soulcake]

So @soulcake, would you accept this as a write-in?

Click to shrink...

Yeah sure.

 

[LaggPlaguedDuke]

Lagg made a plan for it.

Click to shrink...

What do you think of Gnu's version? Swaps out sanctuary for Grungni.

Gahhh! Of all times to be late to the discussion!

Alright folks. With the storm of magic coming, I'm advocating we use this priceless opportunity to forge the last piece of our set combo at the Anvil of the Earth. Specifically, I want to advocate for an old idea of mine: The Gift of the Runelord.

Here's the original post for context, note that this was written before Snerra's discovery of the MR of Amplification.



Now, it's pretty clear that Snerra scooped us on MGlittering Beacon with her MAmplification, but that just makes things simpler.

Think of it. A cloak that empowers the throng's runic equipment, as we march to war. And making use of the Storm of Magic? I can't think of a more powerful way to round out the set, or one more in keeping with the character of Snorri, the Gift-Giver.

So @soulcake, would you accept this as a write-in?

[ ] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 1: It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of purest gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)
.
[ ] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 2: Adamant and Shard Wyrm Hide It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)

If accepted, my plan would look something like:

[] Plan: Once in a Lifetime
-[] Waywarding: 1 Retainer Action
-[] The Throng is Mustered: 2 Retainer Actions
-[] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 1: 1 Action
It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of purest gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Greedy Troll's Heart)
-[] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 2: 3 Actions It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Greedy Troll's Heart)
--[] Forge at the Anvil of the Earth, wear Barak Azamar and use Zharrgal
-[] ORDER: A Greedy Troll's Heart, preferably T4 if possible.
--[] Kingly Expedite: [Cost: 15 Favour from Kraka Drakk]

Edit: Of course a Troll's Heart makes perfect sense for pulling deep magic from the rune of stone. Excellent idea, @Jreengus.

Click to shrink...

So we apparantly have a chance to get a t3 mat if we order it this turn so could you add an order for a t3 troll's heart or oathgold? Actually, would kingly authority + expedite + hunting be doable to get us t3 oathgold and a heart in one turn?

 

[bryanfran36]

What turn was the first contact with the elves again?

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

What turn was the first contact with the elves again?

Click to shrink...

Define first contact.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

So we apparantly have a chance to get a t3 mat if we order it this turn so could you add an order for a t3 troll's heart or oathgold? Actually, would kingly authority + expedite + hunting be doable to get us t3 oathgold and a heart in one turn?

Click to shrink...

Sure! Happy to. Editing in to the plan.

 

[Red Bovine]

I suppose we are rushing it yeah. But I consider the Storm to be worth it (and please don't bring up the "storm isn't that special" argument), I do not trust us to get around to researching the Brain any time soon, even I frankly have things I'm more interested in like Akazit or the Rune Metal, and Bungie's thing makes sense in its design and has such amazing possibilities and general use potential.

Click to shrink...

Or it could be that due to the brain being used in an ineffecient way thanks to lack of research it may end up actually reduced in efficiency. Like for example for all we know it could go to from a T5 in effectiveness down to a T4. Meanwhile a T4 may go up in effectiveness thanks to the storm which may make it way more practical to go with T4s we actually understand.

As for us not researching the brain I'm going to say right now that I and I'm assuming several other people are going to be pushing to do research on all T5s right away from now after this fiasco. Because again the only reason we didn't spend time researching it was because didn't plan on making any epic gear any time soon. Now that people are suggesting using T5s and potentially wasting all that potential pretty sure that people are going to want to avoid this kind of thing in the future.

 

[MrHobbit]

Yeah u can. Also a higher chance of it being t4 (they're naturally T3) cuz of the storm.

Good luck! :^)

Click to shrink...

I wanted to double check. Are you saying there is a chance of getting a t4 troll heart because they live close in 0 turns? Or did you mean that in a normal 1 turn wait time? You mentioned that we can't get T4 at all, with T3 being a maybe.

Depends on rarity. T4 is right out while t3 is negotiable maybe.

Click to shrink...

Edit:

As for us not researching the brain I'm going to say right now that I and I'm assuming several other people are going to be pushing to do research on all T5s right away from now after this fiasco.

Click to shrink...

:^)

I have bigger plans than that.

 

[BungieONI]

In this case the needs of his people is not particularly important. The Cloak is not the only option we have for forging this turn. I have doubts that it would save more Dawi than, say, an anti-magic talisman or whatever.

Do you want this to be more like Barak Azamar where Snorri was certain that it would be a masterpiece and be a worthy replacement, or do you want to read him being non-happy for the process and undecided about the process due to not doing proper research?

We do not have to use the brain. There is no reason to take risks that we do not have to.

I mean, Yorri's here. I doubt that even he is impulsive enough to use the brain without touching it in the least.

Click to shrink...

I trust soul to write something entertaining if we take a risk. He obviously has figured that Snorri has a valid Snorri-like line of reasoning to use the brain. Snorri may not be happy directly leaping onto it, but he's not going to be distraught or overwrought about it.

And the needs of his people are always important, because that's part of what drives him. When fighting the Fimir, that just makes it more so. There are alternative options, but an anti-magic talisman (as an example) protects really only him and deletes magic brought against the army he marches with. He can largely already do that to a very high degree, and as I've mentioned already has tools in Ancestral Aegis to protect his people from magic. This would be physical projectiles, getting through chaff, and generally using a storm to assist him and his people in killing their enemies before their enemies kill them.

E: If you want to imply Snorri will go slayer about this, then I think this argument is over. There's no point continuing with discussing your points if those points fling off into hyperbole. If it breaks or doesn't work? He can just pick up the cloak again, having learned his lesson and continue on with his life.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Yeah, I think anti-magic is a bit too limited.

 

[LaggPlaguedDuke]

All the MAmplification combos are also meant to buff surrounding runecraft in addition to antimagi via BA/deep magic.

 

[BungieONI]

All the MAmplification combos are also meant to buff surrounding runecraft in addition to antimagi via BA/deep magic.

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That does help. I still believe that a storm which adds to the Throng-Storm and physically protects the dwarves of the army and shieldwall is of at least equivalent merit, especially when hooked into a potential Set. Your anti-magic ideas might link in to BA and make a Set, but I'm less convinced they will, and thus less willing to risk it.

 

[Vokivas]

We don't have clear ideas for the brain because we have no idea what brains can even be used for.

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You can insist that you'll be championing this cause, and that the thread has a lot of support for the brain research, but that quote there is the big problem.

Due to how ambiguous everything is, it seems to me that the Grimnir Gronti is the far more attractive project. People are generally in agreement on things, they've been looking forward to it for a long while, and Snorri's capabilities have only grown.

Researching the brain and the Gazul rune is far more nebulous, and that makes it harder to catch and keep people's attention for the theoretical project.

I guess that's another part of the mental equation I've got going on. That the brain project is so hard to pin down, that the Grimnir Gronti seems like a more intriguing prospect by far. The amount of impact, change, the narrative significance, and the visible goal is what sets them apart. I'm not saying that these projects are mutually exclusive, it's about frame of reference. People have been thinking of the Grimnir Gronti for a very long time, and for the longest time has been mostly hypothetical. But of all things, the brain seems like less of a priority than that.

And I guess part of that is because the argument for holding onto the brain is more meta-gaming stuff. Where we save it in all circumstances, for the promise of some super powerful item later in the future. That's kind of similar to the initial concepts about the Grimnir Gronti, but at this point in time it just seems far less interesting than using it at this point in time. Like, in my mind that project is kind of similarly ranked with the next part of Adamant Chain. Though that's seemingly only one step, so it could be even less than tied.

This is where I am on this topic, and I really like Bungie's cloak idea. Maybe the thread will disagree with me, and if so then it is what it is. But that's just me.

 

[LaggPlaguedDuke]

That does help. I still believe that a storm which adds to the Throng-Storm and physically protects the dwarves of the army and shieldwall is of at least equivalent merit, especially when hooked into a potential Set. Your anti-magic ideas might link in to BA and make a Set, but I'm less convinced they will, and thus less willing to risk it.

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The Brana already provide the stormwall which I think is enough protection from that angle. Tbh though, it's mostly the use of the brain that I'm not a fan of. I think replacing it with the blood might allow us to still get the conduction connotation and draw energy from BA to fuel the storm. Something like the Deep magic fueling the planets storms or something.

Edit: Actually, why not just stick a Shaggoth brain and blood into the Rune of Lightning instead of Kholek's brain. You get the directed lightning and conduction just at a lesser degree than Kholek's brain.

 

[bryanfran36]

Define first contact.

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The first time they appeared in the quest or interacted with Kraka Drak/Snorri.

 

[c.j.]

That does help. I still believe that a storm which adds to the Throng-Storm and physically protects the dwarves of the army and shieldwall is of at least equivalent merit, especially when hooked into a potential Set. Your anti-magic ideas might link in to BA and make a Set, but I'm less convinced they will, and thus less willing to risk it.

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The ting is that wile I agree they are equivalent i would very much argue that that would work more for a separate banner, the talisman works much better as part of the set and combos much more strongly with what the rest of the set actually does.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

I still believe that a storm which adds to the Throng-Storm and physically protects the dwarves of the army and shieldwall is of at least equivalent merit,

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It's definitely meritorious, but it feels very redundant to me? Given we already have the AA, six runelords and a disproportionate number of runesmiths, and KOTS' storm on top of that. I'd rather go for an effect that the throng of Kraka Drakk does not yet have - an effect buffing the runic equipment of the throng.

Also, it's important to me that the set items tie in to Snorri's character, but I'm not seeing how a Stormcloak does so. Deep Magic and Runecraft are tied to Snorri as a person, but storms don't seem any more tied to him than say, a wall of fire would be.

Also: for the other votes, I'm advocating for The New Elf Colony, Productivity, and Odd Runes.