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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Did we already go over whether or not it is known that Storms of Magic are recurring? Because as far as I could tell the general feeling was that the storm is hopefully just a "last hurrah" of magical energy that's built up given all the bullshit that happened during The Great Incursion.

So while we know that this will happen again, does Snorri?
 
I trust soul to write something entertaining if we take a risk. He obviously has figured that Snorri has a valid Snorri-like line of reasoning to use the brain. Snorri may not be happy directly leaping onto it, but he's not going to be distraught or overwrought about it.

And the needs of his people are always important, because that's part of what drives him. When fighting the Fimir, that just makes it more so. There are alternative options, but an anti-magic talisman (as an example) protects really only him and deletes magic. He can largely already do that to a very high degree, and as I've mentioned already has tools in Ancestral Aegis to protect his people from magic. This would be physical projectiles, getting through chaff, and generally using a storm to assist him and his people in killing their enemies before their enemies kill them.

E: If you want to imply Snorri will go slayer about this, then I think this argument is over. There's no point continuing with discussing your points if those points fling off into hyperbole. If it breaks or doesn't work? He can just pick up the cloak again, having learned his lesson and continue on with his life.
Snorri has an anti-magic talisman. We've had it the entire time. The antimagic talisman is in part what we use to cancel out enemy magic. Well, the cloak too. Zaraz a Rhunrikki for instance, is designed to enhance the performance of Runesmiths.

Snorri's people need him to act intelligently as his age would suggest. That means doing things the proper Dwarf way and not bumbling into potential accidents.

It is not as if the Brana don't already provide a storm, as Lagg pointed out.

Of course I was not implying he would go slayer. I was using that as a counter to the rather strange arguments about it being narratively vital to use the brain in this storm of magic. I want to craft something right now, if I did not the argument would be worth slightly more than nothing. However, I do want to craft something, so I brought out something that would completely end that line of argument. Of course if people must continue equating the use of the brain and crafting during the storm, I will respond.

You can insist that you'll be championing this cause, and that the thread has a lot of support for the brain research, but that quote there is the big problem.

Due to how ambiguous everything is, it seems to me that the Grimnir Gronti is the far more attractive project. People are generally in agreement on things, they've been looking forward to it for a long while, and Snorri's capabilities have only grown.

[Snip discussion about Grimnir Gronti]
I can insist that I will be championing the cause because I will. This post shows that you do not exactly understand why the thread has not generally focused much on material research in general.

That reason is basically we have always had time on our side. We could always put it off. Now we can't trust that to be the case. Events could pop up where a reagent could be useful.

The Grimnir Gronti is not time limited, at least as far as we know. Now, with storms of magic popping up, all reagents are. Especially Tier 5 regeants.
 
Okay why in the world do people want to gamble on a one of a kind item with our only T5? It makes absolutely no sense that people want to gamble on something that valuable. Like the people wanting to use it outright admit that they are just making a ton of assumptions on it with said assumptions being potentially wrong.

The argument that we 'are unlikely to research it' is pretty terrible as well because first off it's literally only 4 actions and we may be getting a trait that lets us finish it with even fewer actions so it's not even action intensive. Second we weren't planning on making any epic gear that would require it otherwise if we had we definitely would have researched it.

Honestly if the cloak idea is still on I strongly suggest just using a T4 item like the Sky Kings crest feathers which would also fit narratively if not more so.
 
I wanted to double check. Are you saying there is a chance of getting a t4 troll heart because they live close in 0 turns? Or did you mean that in a normal 1 turn wait time? You mentioned that we can't get T4 at all, with T3 being a maybe.
Orders will always take minimum one turn, in that context I meant sending someone out on a hunt like Gimli or your Retainers.
 
From what I'm seeing, there are roughly three broad elements that each of the proposed items fall have, namely Form, Theme & Effect.

Name Pending
  • Amulet
  • Deep Magic of the Earth
  • Anti-spellcasting & Runecasting amplification
Skarrenbakraz
  • Cloak
  • Primordial World
  • Lightning Empowerment & Casting

For me, the amulet ticks all the boxes on each of the elements.

I definitively prefer an amulet over a cloak, Deep Magic over Primordial World & the spellcasting & general runecasting amplification over Lightning.

Some kind of 'spew out more lightning than a Sith' item just feels a bit too undwarfy and unSnorri to me. Sure, there are things like MThunderbolts & Grungni's association with Lightning, so Lightning & Dwarves isn't completely foreign, but I don't think those are particularly prominent across wider dwarfdom and certainly don't have strong associations with Snorri from what I've read throughout this quest.

Then there are a couple other minor things that rub me the wrong way with the cloak; using Kholek's Brain without research, the overly prescriptive item description (I prefer for the look/physical design of an item to be left up to Soulcake), and the general out-doorsness of Lightning. Would the item have 100% effectiveness deep underground (a Dum situation) or is it only able to show it's true power with open sky?

So yea, all obviously 100% subjective, but I'm keen on Name Pending Amulet.
 
The ting is that wile I agree they are equivalent i would very much argue that that would work more for a separate banner, the talisman works much better as part of the set and combos much more strongly with what the rest of the set actually does.
I do not agree. They don't have anything to do with directed antimagic, rune casting, or empowering other Runesmiths in such activities and Snerra's Runes of Amplification. Zharrgal breaks imbued enchantments by kinda beating the crap out of the material they're imbued on.

Further the antimagic talisman does not really strike me on an imagery level of really lining up with anything in the visions during Barak Azamar and Zharrgal, and I want to see if there's an end to that story with this cloak.

The Brana already provide the stormwall which I think is enough protection from that angle. Tbh though, it's mostly the use of the brain that I'm not a fan of. I think replacing it with the blood might allow us to still get the conduction connotation and draw energy from BA to fuel the storm. Something like the Deep magic fueling the planets storms or something.

Edit: Actually, why not just stick a Shaggoth brain and blood into the Rune of Lightning instead of Kholek's brain. You get the directed lightning and conduction just at a lesser degree than Kholek's brain.
Largely because I want to hone in on the coordination effects I've described, and Kholek's particular skill as a sorcerer. If voting doesn't support the Brain I'll probably make a Blood or Heart using plan to add to the mix. I don't want to mix two ingredients, because that automatically gets Wacky according to Soul.

It's definitely meritorious, but it feels very redundant to me? Given we already have the AA, six runelords and a disproportionate number of runesmiths, and KOTS' storm on top of that. I'd rather go for an effect that the throng of Kraka Drakk does not yet have - an effect buffing the runic equipment of the throng.

Also, it's important to me that the set items tie in to Snorri's character, but I'm not seeing how a Stormcloak does so. Deep Magic and Runecraft are tied to Snorri as a person, but storms don't seem any more tied to him than say, a wall of fire would be.

Also: for the other votes, I'm advocating for The New Elf Colony, Productivity, and Odd Runes.
Snerra's stuff does that though? That's primarily what her Set is about. I think the Primordial World is tied to Snorri via his experiences crafting some of his greatest works of art: Barak Azamar and Zharrgal, and the visions which changed him after he experienced them. Further, I'm presenting it as a symbolic representation of the people of Kraka Drakk who he carries on his back in a metaphorical sense, like Barak Azamar. Where that was ensuring he'd always live and stay alive to protect them, the cloak gives them further shelter and is in a sense extending out from him because it is a Banner. See the description of the dwarven people in the write up for Skarrenbakraz.
 
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I do not agree. They don't have anything to do with directed antimagic, rune casting, or empowering other Runesmiths in such activities and Snerra's Runes of Amplification. Zharrgal breaks imbued enchantments by kinda beating the crap out of the material they're imbued on.

Further the antimagic talisman does not really strike me on an imagery level of really lining up with anything in the visions during Barak Azamar and Zharrgal, and I want to see if there's an end to that story with this cloak.


Largely because I want to hone in on the coordination effects I've described, and Kholek's particular skill as a sorcerer. If voting doesn't support the Brain I'll probably make a Blood or Heart using plan to add to the mix. I don't want to mix two ingredients, because that automatically gets Wacky according to Soul.
Yeah, the shaggoth brain might give a lesser version of Kholek's so maybe?

Also with what Soulcake just said, I think that means no chance of a t3 oathgold but if we sent Gloin on a hunting trip we can probably get a t3/maybe t4 troll heart. We could divert the Heartguard to try to get us a mat in time as well I guess?
 
Master Rune of Purification (Voidstone), Rune of Spelleating (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart), Rune of Empowerment (Elder Magma Wyrm Blood).

Master Rune of Purification (Voidstone), Rune of Direction (Elder Magma Wyrm Blood), Rune of Empowerment (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart)

Two versions of a thing, thought I'd give it a shot for funsies.

You might notice that this is similar to a lot of Antimagic stuff here, but I figured id make a different take on it.

If I was feeling really crazy I'd consider the unicorn heart.

But regardless the theme of this is taking the energy of Evil/the impure and using it to empower that which stands against them.

So that gives things a very stable energy to use, and allows us to hopefully direct it and maybe even store it to put into runic objects we make to empower like the storm and BA does/do.

I doubt that last one but one can dream.
 
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Yeah, the shaggoth brain might give a lesser version of Kholek's so maybe?

Also with what Soulcake just said, I think that means no chance of a t3 oathgold but if we sent Gloin on a hunting trip we can probably get a t3/maybe t4 troll heart. We could divert the Heartguard to try to get us a mat in time as well I guess?
I think the Hearthguard are honestly a bit to necessary right now as bodies out there doing things to have them go hunting. It would be a lesser version, but since my stated preference is to go fullbore, that's what I'm doing. We also don't really know what Shaggoth Brains do IIRC so the same arguments raised against Kholek still completely apply; so I see little reason to trade the same problems (or near enough) for lesser effect.
 
Question from discord about what Shaggoth/Dragon Ogre Brains do/ are good for:
Answer said:
A rune you don't have currently. But uh, in the same way Griffon Brain is used for the Master Rune of Currents, Shaggoth Brains are for that Rune.
Thematic and the general idea of control, coordination, higher-level tasks than "get hot, transfer energy"
 
I'm a bit new to this quest, so I'm not familiar with all the mechanics. However, I think I have a cool idea for something that could be made. This idea comes from the fact that Snorri's current armor and hammer makes him very good at smithing. The only thing that he is really missing to become a traveling forge is an Anvil to smith on. That gave me the great idea of having a shield that doubles as an anvil!

Cool Shield Idea (Maybe a name with Anvil in it?)
-Master Rune of Steel
-Rune of Smednir
-Rune of Iron
At the beginning of the world, meteors were forged into veins of iron with the earth as an anvil. In time, these veins were mined and reforged by master smiths into unbreakable steel.

When iron is subjected to large amounts of magic it becomes lodestone. The Rune of Iron focuses the magnetic properties of lodestone to make magical armor. Steel is a refinement of iron into a new more resilient form that will not degrade; the Rune of Steel. Smednir is the craftsman that facilitates the improvement from iron to steel. My hope is that this comes together to create an unbreakable shield that will also act as an anvil that improves what is made on it.

Personally, I don't think it will be made now, but maybe in the future! I just like the idea of Snorri's armor set making him like a mountain/volcano. He has a body of stone (armor), a blast of fire (hammer), and could have a vein of metal (shield.)
 
Ok then that definitely means we don't want to use the T5 reagent brain on a litning rune then.
 
Orders will always take minimum one turn, in that context I meant sending someone out on a hunt like Gimli or your Retainers.

Ah, I misunderstood. I will edit the plan once again.

Snerra's stuff does that though? That's primarily what her Set is about.

No, there's a very key difference. Snerra's set empowers runesmith casting. Zaraz a Rhunrikki is designed to empower runic equipment.

So, Snerra can make the Wrath and Ruins the army casts hit harder. Zaraz a Rhunrikki, in theory, boosts the potency of runes on the equipment around it. So, an Axe with the Rune of Fire might burn hotter, for example.

think the Primordial World is tied to Snorri via his experiences crafting some of his greatest works of art: Barak Azamar and Zharrgal, and the visions which changed him after he experienced them. Further, I'm presenting it as a symbolic representation of the people of Kraka Drakk who he carries on his back in a metaphorical sense, like Barak Azamar.

Ehhhh. I follow your train of thought, but it doesn't resonate on the same level to me. It's certainly a reasonable line to take though.
 
Okay, I saw someone say lightning was not Dawi.

I'm going to be clear: one of the TT attacks for RUNESMITHS and RUNELORDS was lightning bolts.
 
Ok then that definitely means we don't want to use the T5 reagent brain on a litning rune then.
What? Ok, so it's a rune we don't have yet. As in a rune we'd have to devote research into developing and testing, assuming we don't roll well enough that we get into a situation to learn it from others. So we'd either have to focus on researching this specific rune or get very lucky, and given what other things we need to do and research I am 90% sure we'd be relying on luck to get it in an appreciable amount of time.

On the other hand we now have confirmation that a Dragon Ogre Shaggoth's brain is tied to coordination in additiont to other things, which is exactly the intent on using it for the cloak relies on.

I'm with EVA on this one: What are you talking about?
 
I would also ask that we consider the Arcane Fulcrum we're using here. The Anvil of the Earth. I really think it would be more appropriate to make something from the Deep Magic end of things rather than something sky based.
Yorri calls it the Anvil of the Earth, but of the Earth it doesn't really seem to be. I'm still betting its some Old One stuff that got slagged when things originally went to hell.

To me, the Primordial World and its visions are really, really cool. I want to see that last piece of insight fall into place. And since we're planning on making a super Grimnir Gronti in the future, the idea of making a super item prominently featuring the Master Rune of Grungni feels fitting.

As for the fittingness of Kholek's Brain: I think it fits. It has that primordial tint to it, Kholek was lightning'd to the max, all of our dealings with this set had visions shoved into our brains, and making a banner of magic storms in a storm of magic all coalesces together well.
 
Ok then that definitely means we don't want to use the T5 reagent brain on a litning rune then.
The Master Rune of Grungni provides the wind and basic core of a storm. The Lightning Rune flavors that protective wind with lightning as it does in Stormwrath. The Rune of Fury directs and empowers the power and damage of the other two against the targets of Snorri's fury.

There is a large amount of energy going through this storm and the set as a whole, and the rune of lightning and its projected magic since that projected magic will draw on the other two runes of the cloak, so I think the combo needs a factor of coordination, energy manipulation and control to do what I want it to.

No, there's a very key difference. Snerra's set empowers runesmith casting. Zaraz a Rhunrikki is designed to empower runic equipment.

So, Snerra can make the Wrath and Ruins the army casts hit harder. Zaraz a Rhunrikki, in theory, boosts the potency of runes on the equipment around it. So, an Axe with the Rune of Fire might burn hotter, for example.
*Takes a closer look* I'm... hmm.

I can't see how it would do what you want honestly. Amplification isn't about Runic Equipment and forms the core of the combo. Its about dispel attempts and Casting. Magic Breaker from her armor feeds on enemy magic and feeds it to the Banner or Amplifier. And the Banner Glittering Beacon got mushed into Amplification as you noted. Amplification's root components are Spelleating, Spellbreaking (a pair which makes an engine of a kind), and Thungni for Rune Casting. We already know however that Thungni's rune doesn't directly improve runes sheer power, but makes work around them better and I think reduces how much maintenance they need, and clearly Rune Casting. It buffing runes is noted as an odd thing that you'd expect it to do but it doesn't in the ancestor rune post.

Amplifier also isn't building off the Deep Magic, but instead the Winds: see the base runes which form it drawing from enemy magic. If it hooked into BA it might draw from the Deep Magic then. The Rune of Grungni creates a wind, a barrier, upon which you can add further elements, see Stormwrath and Ancestral Aegis and there is some draw from his portfolio obviously as a protector when used in this way. The Rune of Stone is about durability and physical hardiness, as well as some connection to dwarves as a people.

I think it'd probably create some kind of like, energy conversion barrier that boosts Rune Casting in an area around the user and I'm unsure if the base runic functions actually combo. They might?
 
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[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make the Grimnir Gronti.
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

Read the arguments. Seems silly to gamble a t5 regent, but I have a feeling it'll work out regardless of what we choose, if only to avoid the shitstorm that would ensue.
 
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Did we already go over whether or not it is known that Storms of Magic are recurring? Because as far as I could tell the general feeling was that the storm is hopefully just a "last hurrah" of magical energy that's built up given all the bullshit that happened during The Great Incursion.

So while we know that this will happen again, does Snorri?
That's an interesting point, but I'm not inclined to believe it. Yes things are vastly different for the northern peninsula, the Karaz Ankor and their relationship with Ulthaun and the Dawi Zarr, but I don't think that means that there won't be any Storms of Magic in the future. Soul seemed to phrase things towards the end of the update that implies that this is the first, and that there will be more.

I like the idea that the changes on the northern peninsula and maybe even stopping the Fimir from getting through the mists might mean significantly less chaos in the north, but there's still the polar gate. And that aside, I like the idea that a storm can swoop in at inconvenient times to push us towards making more things with the anvil.
I can insist that I will be championing the cause because I will. This post shows that you do not exactly understand why the thread has not generally focused much on material research in general.

That reason is basically we have always had time on our side. We could always put it off. Now we can't trust that to be the case. Events could pop up where a reagent could be useful.

The Grimnir Gronti is not time limited, at least as far as we know. Now, with storms of magic popping up, all reagents are. Especially Tier 5 regeants.
You totally missed the point of my post it seems, and the personal attach is totally uncalled for.

My emphasis on your declaration of intent in the future wasn't trying to question your honesty, but instead it was about the impact that would have. I could be in the thread after ever turn pushing for us the get the next rune metal tier unlocked, but that doesn't mean that I'll push the thread towards that path out of sheer will.

And it seems like we're seeing two completely different things from the same target. I don't think existence of the anvil and the prospect that storms can come out of nowhere will all of a sudden push the entire thread towards completing all reagent research asap like you seem to think. That might have some validity, but the storms are going to be few and far between and are likely to come unpredictably, and on top of that there are far more pressing and interesting subjects.

An to restate my point about the Gronti versus the brain, it's all about image.

One is something that has been around for a while, has a lot of support, and has a very clear image of it's extent and effect. The other has remained outside of the general consciousness, and the investment required to reap it's benefits are both vague.

And I'm not even trying to say that we should do the Gronti immediately, rather that I expect that it'll have a great deal of support by the time the next storm comes around. And the Gronti itself may have actually been built by then, and what gets made at the anvil is actually part of it's gear set instead.

We have so much on our plate already. Eltharin, Akazit, Rune Metal, Rune Metal pt B, movement of things and related esoteric branches, waystones research, wardstones, gazul's rune, commisions, potential apprentices, and then there's our pile of reagents. There are so many enticing things in that pile, that the promise of a far off item that's super powerful and min maxed just isn't as compelling as using it here.

Gnu's comments about the talisman's focus on runes fitting more with Snorri's person is kind of compelling, but it lacks the other things that draw me to Oni's plan.

Though I feel like this is kind of a waste of time. Based on our last exchange, and what direction this discussion seems to be going in. I'm okay if you think I'm wrong, or somehow making a grave mistake. That's your opinion.
 
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