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Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]

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jwolfe_beta said:
I suspect that among those that retained their minds after the conversion, there was a certain amount of "I told you so :anger:" floating around the tac-net.
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Well, "I told you so :|". No souls and whatnot.

For a moment I was worried killing Gardakka's Waaagh would force the next time skip but then I remembered the Ayacmanik and Isendral probably count as enough of a bother to keep us in turn time. Hopefully long enough to get Slaan Spawning done. Considering we can have ~2500 excess slannpower to spend for the six turns it'll take to research that, we can probably grab power armor, engines and some cool VIEST stuff along the way, even discounting anything the Relic Priests can tell us.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
For a moment I was worried killing Gardakka's Waaagh would force the next time skip but then I remembered the Ayacmanik and Isendral probably count as enough of a bother to keep us in turn time. Hopefully long enough to get Slaan Spawning done. Considering we can have ~2500 excess slannpower to spend for the six turns it'll take to research that, we can probably grab power armor, engines and some cool VIEST stuff along the way, even discounting anything the Relic Priests can tell us.
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We've still got to clean out the remaining Ork groups. Granted at this point it should be more or less whack-a-squig but it will require at least some focus.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
So, rituals can boost any enchantment, the earth shaping ones are just most efficient, right? Does that mean rituals can benefit from VIEST? Do Slann know any AoE buff spells that could be used to boost city builders, even if they can't build cities themselves?
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They can't directly benefit from VEIST, since that'd require casting a multilayered ritual, and the amount of energy required to maintain such an immense amount of magic would be too costly - for now, at least. VEIST doesn't make magic entirely free, just reduces its upkeep quite a bit.

And hmm, you've a good point, though it's mostly a moot point now that you guys've crossed the 50 action threshold. You can reduce a city's cost by 1 action with a Mag 1 ritual; I'll note this down in the updated list of Ritual examples I'm creating.

The Froggy Ninja said:
Does Slann Spawning: Physical Construction or Slann Spiritual Architecture Analysis do anything on their own or are they solely point sinks to unlock Slann Spawning?
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I can't guarantee they won't do anything on their own if something pops into my head while I'm writing them, but for now they mostly function as point sinks/lore dumps.

The Froggy Ninja said:
It's interesting that Slann Construction is so much less efficient than classic slannpower.
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I had some kind of equation I used to calculate the initial figures, but I've forgotten it. Long story short it simulates the inexact bottlenecks of how magical potential translates to telekinetic workload.

The Froggy Ninja said:
What does population actually do for us, aside from war? City actions are based on infrastructure and web magnitude, so a city at 1/10 population is going to get the same amount done as a city at 10/10, to my understanding.
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Since your cities are all connected to each other, not much mechanically speaking. If they were isolated and you couldn't have neighboring cities help each other out, it'd be different. I suppose I could input a system where each city gets its actions depending on whether it's reached certain population quotas, but frankly speaking the number crunching is the most effort intensive part of the quest for me as is and I didn't build this system to simulate stuff on a very hyper-realistic level.

The Froggy Ninja said:
Where do Necrons stand vis a vis free will? They rebelled against the C'Tan and such but the C'Tan also ate their souls.
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???

The Froggy Ninja said:
For a moment I was worried killing Gardakka's Waaagh would force the next time skip but then I remembered the Ayacmanik and Isendral probably count as enough of a bother to keep us in turn time.
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There are three things that stand to be resolved before the timeskip happens in full. One is Gardakka and the orks in general, and the other is the Ayacmanik.
 
zxzx24 said:
That's not even a question Necrons themselves would have an easy time awnsering.
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Considering a majority of the population have been turned into literal mindless husks, the occasional fragmented personality matrixes that let some of the foot soldiers have a hollow shell that vaguely pretends to be a personality, and are otherwise infected with the Flayer madness, its all relative really.
 
Xantalos said:
And hmm, you've a good point, though it's mostly a moot point now that you guys've crossed the 50 action threshold. You can reduce a city's cost by 1 action with a Mag 1 ritual; I'll note this down in the updated list of Ritual examples I'm creating.
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Neat. Am I correct to assume that this scales at the same rate as the Web's ritual capacity? As in, a Mag 4 ritual would be an eight action discount rather than covering the entire eastern half of the ring, and any cities we can fit in there.
Xantalos said:
I can't guarantee they won't do anything on their own if something pops into my head while I'm writing them, but for now they mostly function as point sinks/lore dumps.
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Fair. Might make certain training actions easier or something but even as just point sinks they're worth it.
Xantalos said:
???
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You mentioned a while ago that you liked how the Newcrons were more active agents and it led me to think about how their soullessness ties into that due to your lore on souls and free will.
Any thoughts on the Teguton?
 
Xantalos said:
Since your cities are all connected to each other, not much mechanically speaking. If they were isolated and you couldn't have neighboring cities help each other out, it'd be different. I suppose I could input a system where each city gets its actions depending on whether it's reached certain population quotas, but frankly speaking the number crunching is the most effort intensive part of the quest for me as is and I didn't build this system to simulate stuff on a very hyper-realistic level
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I suppose the simplest way to do it would be as an overall number rather than city specific.

Max city actions X percentage of max population filled = available city actions.

It would make population something meaningful because without it we aren't running at full efficiency.

If we suffer a disaster or massive casualties for example then there would be a tangible economic cost until we repopulate. It would also put a soft cap on how fast we can build new cities. Doubling the number of cities would give us more potential actions but until the population catches up with the new max pop our efficiency would take a hit.

Though given that each new city increases population growth speed in practice it would just mean that like there would just be a small delay until each new city can produce enough workers to staff itself.

You could also use it represent upkeep for different structures by having them increase the max pop, increasing the number of workers needed to reach 100% efficiency and add bonuses/penalties for going above/below set percentages.

And I'm going to stop rambling about potential systems here before I drive myself around the bend.
 
Trilobite said:
I suppose the simplest way to do it would be as an overall number rather than city specific.

Max city actions X percentage of max population filled = available city actions.

It would make population something meaningful because without it we aren't running at full efficiency.

If we suffer a disaster or massive casualties for example then there would be a tangible economic cost until we repopulate. It would also put a soft cap on how fast we can build new cities. Doubling the number of cities would give us more potential actions but until the population catches up with the new max pop our efficiency would take a hit.

Though given that each new city increases population growth speed in practice it would just mean that like there would just be a small delay until each new city can produce enough workers to staff itself.

You could also use it represent upkeep for different structures by having them increase the max pop, increasing the number of workers needed to reach 100% efficiency and add bonuses/penalties for going above/below set percentages.

And I'm going to stop rambling about potential systems here before I drive myself around the bend.
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as a reminder our Slann Casually make new lizardmen every turn/10 years due to them casting the spell in their free time to make more lizardmen...and frankly i really want to get started on the northern parts of our geomantic web, as well as research the stone and talk with the eldar lady. she needs to know she and her husband got a hit on them, maybe the entire gig was to separate her from her husband for a sacrifice for the dark cults, but the soul-stone trap was knicked by the orks when they backstabbed the dark muse for shits and giggles.

or said dark muse frogot about the hit when they found other targets...so if it IS a soul-stone...then she might be getting her husband back.
 
The only guarantee is that Isendral is going on a murderous rampage when we give her the news. No way is she going to take a murder conspiracy (or maybe worse) on her and her husband well.
 
So, here's a problem with the stone. It requires trust 8 to bring it up. We are at 2-3 I think. Gonna have to build that up. She's 3 we are at like 2. I assume her trust will max if we find her husband or something.
 
Image said:
So, here's a problem with the stone. It requires trust 8 to bring it up. We are at 2-3 I think. Gonna have to build that up. She's 3 we are at like 2. I assume her trust will max if we find her husband or something.
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something like the stone+the current events might lower it down dude, this is critical information that we now know is interconnected, somehow someway if the stone IS containing her husbands soul i think she would appreciate the chance to see him again.
 
Image said:
So, here's a problem with the stone. It requires trust 8 to bring it up. We are at 2-3 I think. Gonna have to build that up. She's 3 we are at like 2. I assume her trust will max if we find her husband or something.
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That's because we don't know what it is. WoG if we research it and talk to her on the same turn, we'll be allowed to tell her about it.
Frankfawn43 said:
The only guarantee is that Isendral is going on a murderous rampage when we give her the news. No way is she going to take a murder conspiracy (or maybe worse) on her and her husband well.
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Very probable yes. Though I do want to stick a bit of slannpower on interpreting the prophecy because assuming our first guesses are right is a classic prophetic pitfall. Especially since the Elder Interlude established that some stuff is weird like the Roswell Grays and the non-Necrons.
 
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Image said:
So, here's a problem with the stone. It requires trust 8 to bring it up. We are at 2-3 I think. Gonna have to build that up. She's 3 we are at like 2. I assume her trust will max if we find her husband or something.
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It only requires Trust 8 because we don't know what it is. The entire point of studying the stone is to bring that trust need down to the level we can talk to her about it.
 
Isendral stated her intentions to stay for some time. Some time probably being everything from 50 to 100 years or so. We can get started on the stone or other things, but we shouldn't lose focus on the most immediate hassle. The Orks need to be dealt with with extreme prejudice and the Ayacmanic will have to be addressed afterwards, too.

I'm not sure how many action points we have right now and how many we will need to solve all three goals (although the Orks at least will be solved), but I believe that this is a rather critical juncture in the Lizardmen development.

Will we use our attention to strengthen ourselves by researching ways to create new Slann or will we focus it on another race (Ayacmanic/Eldar)?

How much of our attention will we use to save one or both of them and are we willing to put the wellbeing of ourselves to the backlog for it?

Or will we decide, who is worthy of being saved/getting a chance? The old race, that will surely become a potent ally, but has tainted itself in their hubris and arrogance or the new and unknown race, which is little more than a white canvas ready to be molded by our hands?

The extra actions will be very welcome, but I don't know whether they will allow us to solve all problems. We'll have to test things out, I guess.

Curse you, @Xantalos, and your moral choices! Angrily shakes fist
 
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IMHO the rock should be one of our top priorities. If it is a soul stone containing the soul of Isendral's husband, then we gain a lot of relations with Isendral.

The sooner we finish the Rock the sooner we can arm Isendral with the knowledge we have gained.

Frankly, we've put off the rock for far too long. Its been 5 turns since we've gotten it. Its about time for us to learn what it is. We've got enough Slann power that we can spare the number needed to finish the project as well as work towards other stuff we need. If we keep putting it off we'll always have better things to do.

I think the Stone and arming Isendral with information will be key to screwing over Slaanesh. So the sooner we can aim Isendral at the right target the better it is.

Edit: Isendral may well be a figure powerful enough to serve as the rallying point for those Eldar that have not completely fallen to hedonism. And we can back her up if she and her people end up trying to shank the warp tumor that would become Slaanesh.

If we focus on ourselves we will most likely lose the chance to keep Slaanesh from ever being born. We need to reach out. We can't both hunker down and try to stop Slaanesh. Its one or the other.
 
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The Froggy Ninja said:
Neat. Am I correct to assume that this scales at the same rate as the Web's ritual capacity? As in, a Mag 4 ritual would be an eight action discount rather than covering the entire eastern half of the ring, and any cities we can fit in there.
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A Mag 4 ritual focused on boosting citybuilding... would likely create more problems than it'd solve in this case. There'd be blowback of a sort.

The Froggy Ninja said:
You mentioned a while ago that you liked how the Newcrons were more active agents and it led me to think about how their soullessness ties into that due to your lore on souls and free will.
Any thoughts on the Teguton?
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Oh, Necrons don't have to be passive agents just because they don't have souls. Only difference that makes metaphysically is that divination works easier on them (even if the result of some divinations will inevitably be "the Necrons have become aware of your divination attempts and are coming to kill you".

Ah, my bad - missed those at first. Answering questions while at work can be a doozy sometimes. Let's see ... hmm! Pretty cool idea, actually. I'll fold it into my list of ideas to utilize Later On (TM).

Trilobite said:
I suppose the simplest way to do it would be as an overall number rather than city specific.

Max city actions X percentage of max population filled = available city actions.

It would make population something meaningful because without it we aren't running at full efficiency.

If we suffer a disaster or massive casualties for example then there would be a tangible economic cost until we repopulate. It would also put a soft cap on how fast we can build new cities. Doubling the number of cities would give us more potential actions but until the population catches up with the new max pop our efficiency would take a hit.

Though given that each new city increases population growth speed in practice it would just mean that like there would just be a small delay until each new city can produce enough workers to staff itself.

You could also use it represent upkeep for different structures by having them increase the max pop, increasing the number of workers needed to reach 100% efficiency and add bonuses/penalties for going above/below set percentages.

And I'm going to stop rambling about potential systems here before I drive myself around the bend.
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...see now y'all got me thinking (and wishing I could transport my current smarts back to 2017 era me).

Legionman said:
Are you counting Gardakka and the orks separately here?
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Nope!

The Froggy Ninja said:
That's because we don't know what it is. WoG if we research it and talk to her on the same turn, we'll be allowed to tell her about it.
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Maybe, depending on the trust levels - researching it will lower the requirements, though.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
Is that accurate of all >1 rituals or just 4 because supercontinent level buffs are maybe a worse idea than continent or country level buffs.
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Anything above Mag 1 would have side effects if used in such a manner, it just increases as you go up in Magnitude. Possible effects might be supercharging the growth of everything in the effected area if you used body-boosting magic, accidental instances of timestop-induced telefrag across the continent if you used a time-warping spell, that sort of thing. Just depends on the specifics and the scale.

jwolfe_beta said:
Likely the third thing is figuring out how to make more Slann.
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No, actually - if you don't unlock that during this arc you'll be able to do so during the timeskip.
 
Xantalos said:
Possible effects might be supercharging the growth of everything in the effected area if you used body-boosting magic, accidental instances of timestop-induced telefrag across the continent if you used a time-warping spell, that sort of thing. Just depends on the specifics and the scale.
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Logical response: Use all of those spells at once, and the disastrous side effects might cancel eachother out! Maybe the timestop telefragging would kill off the rampaging cancer monsters, we just don't know.
 
Execute/Dumbo said:
Logical response: Use all of those spells at once, and the disastrous side effects might cancel eachother out! Maybe the timestop telefragging would kill off the rampaging cancer monsters, we just don't know.
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What a very skaven solution :V

Sometimes a little collateral is what you want, though - it was such a vitality-based ritual that turned Lustria into such a hellscape for everyone else in the wake of the Great Catastrophe.
 
Xantalos said:
Anything above Mag 1 would have side effects if used in such a manner, it just increases as you go up in Magnitude. Possible effects might be supercharging the growth of everything in the effected area if you used body-boosting magic, accidental instances of timestop-induced telefrag across the continent if you used a time-warping spell, that sort of thing. Just depends on the specifics and the scale.
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Hmm… potentially worth it in the mid range. Buffed Saurus having to fight buffed animals is probably a more lateral shift compared to Kroxigor and Skinks having more energy and sharper senses to build with. Still not something we'd want to have to deal with on too large a scale but the low slannpower cost makes it tempting.
Could we have a map reference for the ritual magnitudes? Like, city range is pretty easy but country, continent and supercontinent can be somewhat harder to visualize on the map.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
Hmm… potentially worth it in the mid range. Buffed Saurus having to fight buffed animals is probably a more lateral shift compared to Kroxigor and Skinks having more energy and sharper senses to build with. Still not something we'd want to have to deal with on too large a scale but the low slannpower cost makes it tempting.
Could we have a map reference for the ritual magnitudes? Like, city range is pretty easy but country, continent and supercontinent can be somewhat harder to visualize on the map.
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Country range would be ... roughly what the map shows the Ork territory as right now. Continent would basically be the rough size of your current holdings. Supercontinent would either be reaching across the ocean to affect multiple continents or do like 3/4 of the ring.
 
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