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Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]

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Nix's Warden said:
????: Formed during the first orkoid incursion the Lizardmen fought on Mochantia. ??? is an defensive, peaceful, but industrious god, who exults in giving souls their new tasks in their new life.

Symbols: A Scythe, A Mausoleum
Category: Death
Variety: Construction
Domain: Architecture
Methods of Worship: Burial Rites and Construction
Favored Foes: Nurgle
Blessing Thematics: The Undying, Construction Empowerment/Hastening, Defensive fortification visions.

So yeah thats just the general idea I had. I have absolutely no preference for the name, gender, or species of the new god. The only thing I really care about is that we have a Death God for our lizardmen souls to go to, and I like the idea of getting a 2 for 1 bonus here, and having the souls of the dead lizardmen construct their after life as they made their cities in reality. Gives us a Death God and a Construction/Defensive God at the same time.

Methods of Worship just seemd to fit with that idea the most, Favored Foes was Nurgle because he's really the only Chaos God that makes Undead, though I'm fine with it being just 'Chaos' itself since its going to be protecting our souls from it.

Blessing Thematics was pretty obvious, but the first is basically them being prevented from crossing over at the moment, and allowing them to keep fighting, with the rule being that regardless of what they would have after the battle, they WOULD die once the enemy was gone.
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Hm. So this is basically an example of the "death god as construction," one of the leading contender-candidates I'm familiar with. The other one I can remember is, broadly speaking, "death god as sheltering fog."

Now, an obvious point in favor of this is that it gives us a pretty solidly beneficial cult; we'll be able to use a cult of architecture for the foreseeable future. There are strong thematic ties connecting the construction-death-god to, for example, the big mausoleum-temple-pyramids we keep our Relic Priests in. And to some of the more metal options we might choose for Sacred Site defense installations.

I could nitpick the expression of the concept a bit, or tinker with it, but it's certainly viable. Though part of me really likes the 'sheltering fog' concept too, and it'd give us a better angle of attack if we want to use the Seed of Fog.
 
*Shrug* My big reason for double dipping on domains like this, is because the number of Gods we can have is tied to the Web Magnitude we can have, and Mag 9 is 'We own an entire Segmentum' and 10 is 'we own the entire galaxy'. We can have gods outside the Web, but that leaves at risk of being eaten or destroyed from what I remember, while our Web Gods are safe. So we can reasonably assume that we will have at max around 9 Gods come the late game. Sotek takes up 1 slot already as our Aggressive War God.

Gods that we also need off the top of my head are: Death, Construction, Healing/Purification, Crafting, Magic, and down the people path more a God Of Heroism. Counting Sotek thats 7 Gods. Obviously people can think we need different gods and thats fine, but with just that example line up, we're already getting tight on space. Hence my desire to combo God Domains when possible.

The idea came to me way earlier in quest, I can't remember when, but it was basically 'The Lizardmen spend their entire lives building and protecting the works of the Old Ones and their creations. Why not spend their afterlives building their own resting place as well?'
 
Nix's Warden said:
So yeah thats just the general idea I had. I have absolutely no preference for the name, gender, or species of the new god. The only thing I really care about is that we have a Death God for our lizardmen souls to go to, and I like the idea of getting a 2 for 1 bonus here, and having the souls of the dead lizardmen construct their after life as they made their cities in reality. Gives us a Death God and a Construction/Defensive God at the same time.
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The reward for good work is more work. A fitting afterlife for Lizardmen.

The only thing I disagree with is the scythe, it feels rather out of place. Maybe an axe or a pick instead? Something that can be used in construction but also defend your home with?
 
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Undead-Spaceman said:
The reward for good work is more work. A fitting afterlife for Lizardmen.

The only thing I disagree with is the scythe, it feels rather out of place for the Lizardmen. Maybe an axe or a pick instead? Something that can be used in construction but also defend your home with?
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Simon_Jester said:
@Nix's Warden
@Undead-Spaceman

I've got some inspiration and am working on taking Nix's idea and adding a bit of pepper to it, so to speak. I had the same thought you did, skellington of space.

@Xantalos

Is Nix's comment about gods and the geomantic web true?
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*Shrug* thats entirely fine with me. The only points I'm going to argue about when it comes to the God is the Death/Architecture/Construction thing. Literally everything else I'm okay with though I might pitch some ideas as to blessing thematics depend on what kind of animal/being/personality people want to give said god.
 
Thoughts on what the new god could be (couldn't think of a suitable Domain off the top of my head other than Fog), subject to modification:

Representation: Crocodile/Alligator, Fog, Still Water
Category: Death
Variety: Rebirth and resurrection
Domain: Fog
Methods of Worship: Meditation via sensory deprivation.
Favoured Enemies: Nurgle
Blessing Thematics: Concealment/Ambush, Torpor

This is very much in line with the "sheltering fog" idea - death as a temporary condition from which the Lizardmen can eventually return, a means to recuperate. Thematically it is a sort of Death/Stealth/Hunting combo.

Blessings and artifacts could be in the vein of magic to conceal our forces, masses of concealing fog to confuse our enemies into stumbling around and mistakenly attacking one another, the same causing unnatural torpor and sluggishness to make them easy prey, fog condensing and giving temporary physical form to Lizardmen not yet reincarnated/reenacting The Mist...
 
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Simon_Jester said:
@Nix's Warden
@Undead-Spaceman

I've got some inspiration and am working on taking Nix's idea and adding a bit of pepper to it, so to speak. I had the same thought you did, skellington of space.

@Xantalos

Is Nix's comment about gods and the geomantic web true?
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Ayup, it's right. The actual post should be up in a bit, I'd have had it done by now but this Mass Effect mod I'm installing is sending my computer to a halt.
 
Nix's Warden said:
Yeah, I work 12 hours a day 3 days a week, every week, and then I'm off the next four. Its just how my schedule works out.

Thanks for the kind words though.


????: Formed during the first orkoid incursion the Lizardmen fought on Mochantia. ??? is an defensive, peaceful, but industrious god, who exults in giving souls their new tasks in their new life.

Symbols: A Scythe, A Mausoleum
Category: Death
Variety: Construction
Domain: Architecture
Methods of Worship: Burial Rites and Construction
Favored Foes: Nurgle
Blessing Thematics: The Undying, Construction Empowerment/Hastening, Defensive fortification visions.



So yeah thats just the general idea I had. I have absolutely no preference for the name, gender, or species of the new god. The only thing I really care about is that we have a Death God for our lizardmen souls to go to, and I like the idea of getting a 2 for 1 bonus here, and having the souls of the dead lizardmen construct their after life as they made their cities in reality. Gives us a Death God and a Construction/Defensive God at the same time.

Methods of Worship just seemd to fit with that idea the most, Favored Foes was Nurgle because he's really the only Chaos God that makes Undead, though I'm fine with it being just 'Chaos' itself since its going to be protecting our souls from it.

Blessing Thematics was pretty obvious, but the first is basically them being prevented from crossing over at the moment, and allowing them to keep fighting, with the rule being that regardless of what they would have after the battle, they WOULD die once the enemy was gone.
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Nix's Warden said:
*Shrug* thats entirely fine with me. The only points I'm going to argue about when it comes to the God is the Death/Architecture/Construction thing. Literally everything else I'm okay with though I might pitch some ideas as to blessing thematics depend on what kind of animal/being/personality people want to give said god.
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So some comments.

I'm not really sold on Architecture and Construction, conceptually. Part of the problem to me is that they seem very abstract, I suppose, and Death is already abstract in a sense. If you're looking for orienting the god around defensiveness I think some different concepts would lend themselves more towards that while still leaning on ideas of building and making ... maybe for Variety - Homes and then for Domain Cities? Or Cities and Walls respectively?

My worry with more abstracted concepts is that it'll lead us to have a god that doesn't have a strong thematic presence. Notice with Sotek that his Variety is Bloodshed and his Domain is Serpents - which immediately conjured up fairly evocative images.

One thought I had... actually lemme just post what I prepared for the eventual vote.

My Thoughts on Our New God:

Right, on our new god.

General thread consensus has been, so far, for a Death god. Some other ideas have been tossed around but not with a lot of strong arguments or too much fervor, so for the moment I'm just going to assume Death is going to be the Category of our new god. Certainly that's what I want it to be.

That leaves us with only 3 major choices to make in regards to the god. I assume. Those are:
  • Whether to use the Godseed from the Mind Fog
  • What the Variety Should be
  • What the Domain shoulder be
Let's take these in… sort of order.

On the subject of the godseed I have a few comments, some which tie into the matter of the other two choices and some which don't. I'll start with those that don't. They're shorter anyways.

The godseed can gain us upto 400-ish progress on completion meter, if we were to match all three concepts from the seed. From the start that's out then. For two we can get about 200 progress, one will get us 150-ish. And none would be just 100.

Now as it won't be consumed in this process it seems a straightforward choice to use it no matter what - except that its use gives the thing it was used to create a weakness. Specifically it means that if the godseed is ever destroyed that thing will suffer so form of damage, I believe relative to how integral it is to that thing. @Xantalos has said, iirc, that it won't outright destroy a god but it will harm them to have this happen. So we should be at least a little cautious on that front.

Still a minimum of 100, essentially free, progress is enticing.

Now onto the comments that tie into the other two choices we have to make. There has been off and on talk of using either Fog or Slumber or both for a prospective Death god - I have argued against this in the past and… you guessed it I'm going to do the same now. My largest object to using these concepts (and Numb, though I haven't really seen any arguments for that) is that they are all very passive and I think something more active would be of much larger benefit.

When I talk about passive and active, I don't just mean in the sense of the actual gods going out and doing things in a literal sense. Rather I mean that it in a mythic-narrative-symbolic sense the choices we make should evoke and create something that speaks to the new moment the Lizardmen are in away from the old structures of the world they knew and in this vast and mostly unknown universe where the Great Plan no longer applies. Finally freed from the shackles of having to fulfill a design they only barely ever glimpsed the intent of.That is, I want this to open up new horizons. To conjure new aspects of Lizardman spirituality, personality, and character into being.

I want to make the creation of this Death god a turning point. It is already a symbolically powerful moment, the first time the slann and the Lizardmen as a whole are choosing to specifically and deliberately create a god of their own volition and desire - one conjured up from their own thoughts rather than another remnant of the Old Ones.

Slumber and Fog are too… bland I suppose is the best way I can think to describe it. The god that results just isn't very interesting to me, there's no story I can tease out from those concepts, no mythic image that asserts itself, no legend that rises from the primordial depths to grab my attention. It seems more like the Lizardmen aping the gods of the warmbloods they saw on Mallus than making one of their own.

Now, I imagine you're asking what I think good concepts for a Death god are.

I'm honestly still fairly open to anything that meets that criteria I've (vaguely) laid out above - but I do have a range of ideas that I've posted about before. Rather than go into specific formulations I've come up with before I think it might be more fruitful for me to talk about what other concepts I think would accomplish one or more aspects of those criteria. Any of these could fit into either Domain or Variety - Category should certainly be Death just like War is for Sotek - though which is where, will necessarily change the exact expression of the god.

Renewal
Cities
Bees
Rebirth
Construction
Butterflies
Skeletons
Stars
Flowers
Retribution

- Now that that's said, I'll just that what draws me to a lot of these words are the images and feelings they evoke. The stories they begin to tell. Stories are hugely important to the Warp right? A stronger story makes our God stronger by default, so we should be looking for concepts which not only give us a utility but start to tell a story before we even define the god any further. Death/Construction/Architecture doesn't quite do that for me which makes me worry about it.

In particular Bees could be a very interesting Domain to play around with for a construction oriented god - having both defensive and productive associations.
 
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CuttleFish2.0 said:
- Now that that's said, I'll just that what draws me to a lot of these words are the images and feelings they evoke. The stories they begin to tell. Stories are hugely important to the Warp right? A stronger story makes our God stronger by default, so we should be looking for concepts which not only give us a utility but start to tell a story before we even define the god any further. Death/Construction/Architecture doesn't quite do that for me which makes me worry about it.
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*shrug* It does for me. The God Of The Dead Who's Afterlife Is Made By Those Who Reside Within It. The Lizardmen spend their entire lives building and protecting the works of the Old Ones. Their afterlife being spent doing the same is a easy transition and continuation of that story.
 
I like the idea that they aren't just building their own afterlife, they're conquering it. All of their existence has been defined by struggle, of being constantly ground down by a hundred and one different things, and death would be no different. Until now. This deity drew a line in the sand and said 'no more!'.

If we go with construction, that line could be the starting point of a bastion wall. The edge of a great tomb-city built atop the bones of their enemies. They spent their lives under siege and now they've gone down to hell to regroup and fortify. A Siege Master, prepping the grounds in which the lizardmen will continue their forever war against Chaos and all who oppose the Great Plan.

If we go with fog, then instead of going with sleep and peace, we follow in the vein of Xlanhuapec. Confusion and trickery, instead of tall walls, the afterlife is shrouded in choking fogbanks so that whatever foes seek to consume their souls is struck dumb, deceived into consuming one another, or forever lost in eternal murk. A Trickster Warden, guiding scaley souls to where they belong and everyone else into immortal peril.
 
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God Creation Screen (For Future Divinities)
  • Informational
    • It is time for the pantheon of the lizardmen gods to expand! A new divinity shall be born in the coming years, yet its ultimate shape shall be determined now, as the slann mage-lords convene in their astral forms.

    A god's "character sheet", for lack of a better term, is represented by this display, which can also be found in the Mechanics threadmark on the front page:

    Name: The name of the god, and any titles it may possess.
    Representation: What symbols the god is represented by.
    Category: What sort of god this is. Categories are extremely broad, often one-word descriptors, such as war, magic, life/death, or excess.
    Variety: What sort of god within their category this is. If it is a war god, what aspect of war does it focus on? What sort of death does a god within that category bring?
    Domain: What makes the god unique. This is an aspect of reality that the god claims as their own. It is usually a very specific thing, something that is central to the god's identity and imagery.
    Methods of Worship: The most ritually synergistic method of worship the god's followers conduct. While any thought, prayer or action taken under their portfolio counts towards empowering a god, the methods listed here are especially potent, and often favored in the god's holy texts.
    Favored Foes: Most gods have at least one sort of being they and their followers stringently oppose in a manner fitting to their faith. This can range from anything from thieves, the nobility, all the way to entire species.
    Blessing Thematics: Gods often empower their followers. The thematics listed here provide guidelines for what sort of blessings or miracles the god is capable of enacting.
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    I'd like for you to make up a god sheet in this style, along with a description of what this god is like - what their form is, what behaviors they espouse, etc. Additionally, an OOC explanation of what you'd like this god to be like would be appreciated, as it'll make it easier for me to incorporate the god into the narrative. I've included an example below of what Sotek would look like if he were the one being created this turn, to give you an idea of what format I'd like (though so long as it's easily comprehensible I don't care much how you structure your votes).

    There is one more thing you'll need to consider as well - whether to invest the Seed of Fog you obtained from reprocessing the Mind Fog of Chaos into your newly-created god. As a reminder, the Seed of Fog has 3 concepts that are key to its structure - Fog, Slumber, and Numb. Harmonizing your god concept with one or more of these - making their Category, Variety, or Domain words similar to them also counts, you don't have to carbon copy - will grant a number of bonuses to your god, such as:

    - Sped-up creation - 1 matched concept will recieve a 100-point bonus. 2 concepts will recieve a 250-point bonus. 3 matched concepts will recieve 400 points out of the 1000-point scale of god construction.
    - Increased strength - I can't quantify this, but the power of your god will be increased proportionately to each concept tied into the Seed. This includes personal strength, potency of daemons, power of blessings, etc.
    - Future narrative opportunities - Each Seed is obtained by defeating a great enemy and breaking them down to their very core. Each will provide opportunities to perform special actions in the future, such as constructing Warp-borne weapons or enacting otherwise-impossible feats. Divine assistance will make these tasks easier.

    The Seed will still be available if you tie a god into it, and a god may be attuned or detached from it so long as it has at least 1 harmonic concept. The price for this is that the Seed must be defended, lest it be destroyed by daemonic enemies and damage your god in the process. 1 damaged concept will wound a god. Two will severely wound it, and three will outright destroy the entity.

    EDIT: Though I should clarify, you guys can decide how many connections you craft to the Seed in your gods. Just make it clear in the mechanics bit, something like...

    Incorporates the Seed of Fog - 3/3
    Tied to Fog through the association of the afterlife with cold mist
    Tied to Slumber through the Variety of Rest
    Tied to Numb through the domain of Silence

    Something like that. If I don't see a connection, or if I see one that could be used but isn't currently noticed, I'll point it out. But otherwise it'd be up to you to point out how much of a connection to the Fog you want.

    Sotek Example said:
    [Q]Plan Super SaiyaSerpent

    Name: Sotek
    Symbols: Serpent, Twin-Tailed Comet
    Category: War
    Variety: Bloodshed
    Domain: Serpents
    Methods of Worship: Blood Sacrifice
    Favored Foes: Orkoids
    Blessing Thematics: Serpents, Venom, Blood

    Does not incorporate the Seed of Fog

    Formed to combat the growing ork infestations upon Mochantia, Sotek is a furious berzerker. He hungers for the hearts of the lizardmen's enemies, which they sacrifice to him in grand, bloodsoaked rituals. He blesses his followers with his divine fury, transforming their blood into venom, granting them greatly increased combat ability, and the ability to summon swarms of divinely-blessed serpents.

    OOC: We're outnumbered almost 100:1 versus the orks, so we need every lizardman to count as much as possible. Sotek should help out with that by incentivizing our lizardmen to kill as many enemies as possible and granting them bonuses to do so - if it works for Khaine it can work for us! Plus I think the snake motif fits well.
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    Take your time, discuss as much as you need - this vote will be open a while, several days at the absolute minimum. To facilitate this, there will be a voting moratorium of 1 day. I will inform the thread when voting may commence.

    Please ask as many questions of me as you require.
     
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  • Informational
    • Here are a couple of rough concepts. First the roughest.

    Symbols: Bees, the Buzzing Corpse
    Category: Death
    Variety: Construction
    Domain: Bees
    Methods of Worship: TBA
    Favored Foes: TBA
    Blessing Thematics: Bees, Defense, Wax

    There is a corpse, a skeleton of a saurus or a skink or a kroxigor, dried skin taut over most of their body. They speak with a buzzing voice. In gaps between scale gold and black bodies squirm and honey drips from their mouth. This is the god of Death, roused to great anger in defense of the cities of the Lizardmen, protecting the dead and sealing their vulnerable souls away from the terrors of the warp behind walls of wax which trap the hungry bodies of neverborn to be consumed and grow the hive.


    Something I've been thinking about longer.

    Symbols: Butterflies/Flowers, the Dawn,
    Category: Death
    Variety: Renewal
    Domain: Butterflies/Flowers
    Methods of Worship: Composting Corpses, Cyclic Rituals
    Favored Foes: TBA
    Blessing Thematics: Regeneration, Death Transformation, Colorful

    Corpse flowers. The flesh of the dead given over to the fields, their bones carved in protective talismen, their skin made into fluttering banners. Nothing is wasted. Not even the souls, for they rest the afterlife, awaiting the day which the living will need them and call them forth to be protectors once again - perhaps healing those on the doorstep of death, or inhabited great stone guardians to smash foes, or to empower a hero to new heights, transforming them in body into a the very wrath of the new dawn sun.
     
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    ????: Formed during the first orkoid incursion the Lizardmen fought on Mochantia, built for purpose of preventing the consumption of lizardmen souls by the chaotic powers, and prevent any waste by allowing the deceased to continue their purpose even upon becoming deceased. ??? is an defensive, peaceful, but industrious god, who exults in giving souls their new tasks in their new life.

    Symbols: A Scythe, A Mausoleum
    Category: Death
    Variety: Construction
    Domain: Architecture
    Methods of Worship: Burial Rites and Construction
    Favored Foes: Chaos
    Blessing Thematics: The Undying, Construction Empowerment/Hastening, That which has died can live again...if only for awhile.


    ??? is the God of Death, and unsuch can bare passage to his realm should the faithful require it for a time, allowing those that should no longer be among the living to finish one final purpose, weather that be the death of their would be killer, or the completion of a vital fortress or mission, but Death will not be denied its due, and upon the purpose being completed, regardless of whatever physical or magical aid the faithful would have access to at that point, their soul will be taken into's ??? clutches as payment for the time they received.

    To build the works of the Old Ones was the purpose the lizardmen were made for, and ??? facilities this purpose in life and in death, granting the endless energy of the dead to the living for a time, allowing them to work without any regards of food, water, or rest, and by blessing every brick and stone they lay with its power, banishing back the discordant and chaotic powers that endlessly hunger for souls.

    In life or Death, the Lizardmen will serve their purpose, but should they die their purpose will fail, and the Chaotic Forces will consume all within the warp as the Narrative of ??? Is forgotten. It will not allow this. In times of peril ??? can be called upon and ??? will grant the souls of the dead time in the Materium needed to divert disaster. Beings of pure warp energy who can barely be seen but whos weapons slice through obsinite like stone through glass, warriors of bones march forth from their tombs carrying the armaments they were buried with, even those slain but moments again can raise again, missing hearts or other grievous physical trauma rendered unimportant in the face of Divine Power, but such power does not come easily, and as such are saved for moments of greatest importantance.



    Yeah thats just something I threw together.
     
    ive been playing a bit of HEART: THE CITY BENEATH lately so im very intrigued by the idea of us getting a bee-god.
     
    "Death Is Slumber in the realm of mist" seems good if we want to make a death god. Resonant with lizardmen culture and the Relic Priests. I'm a little confused about how defending the godseed is supposed to work.
    What other categories of Gods might we want than a death god and the war god we want? I have a vague idea about a knowledge or architecture god, who cam serve as the god of siege engineering on the side.
     
    Rockeye said:
    "Death Is Slumber in the realm of mist" seems good if we want to make a death god. Resonant with lizardmen culture and the Relic Priests. I'm a little confused about how defending the godseed is supposed to work.
    What other categories of Gods might we want than a death god and the war god we want? I have a vague idea about a knowledge or architecture god, who cam serve as the god of siege engineering on the side.
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    Nix's Warden said:
    *Shrug* My big reason for double dipping on domains like this, is because the number of Gods we can have is tied to the Web Magnitude we can have, and Mag 9 is 'We own an entire Segmentum' and 10 is 'we own the entire galaxy'. We can have gods outside the Web, but that leaves at risk of being eaten or destroyed from what I remember, while our Web Gods are safe. So we can reasonably assume that we will have at max around 9 Gods come the late game. Sotek takes up 1 slot already as our Aggressive War God.

    Gods that we also need off the top of my head are: Death, Construction, Healing/Purification, Crafting, Magic, and down the people path more a God Of Heroism. Counting Sotek thats 7 Gods. Obviously people can think we need different gods and thats fine, but with just that example line up, we're already getting tight on space. Hence my desire to combo God Domains when possible.

    The idea came to me way earlier in quest, I can't remember when, but it was basically 'The Lizardmen spend their entire lives building and protecting the works of the Old Ones and their creations. Why not spend their afterlives building their own resting place as well?'
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    This was my thoughts.
     
    just a thought but that mention of excess in the example of possible domains has me curious as all hell

    could we preempt slanessh and draw all that power of the forming god into our own and cut it/her/him off at the knees
     
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