Man, research is really going to go nuts if we ever figure out reviving relic priests. Forty six 2nd Gens giving us 125 each. Fifteen 1st Gens giving us 625 each. The difficulty scale would probably have to be expanded, lest we become an all-consuming tide of frog and pun.
 
Man, research is really going to go nuts if we ever figure out reviving relic priests. Forty six 2nd Gens giving us 125 each. Fifteen 1st Gens giving us 625 each. The difficulty scale would probably have to be expanded, lest we become an all-consuming tide of frog and pun.
Oh aye, I intend to revise how research is conducted with every chapter to make sure I don't break my own systems.
 
Man, research is really going to go nuts if we ever figure out reviving relic priests. Forty six 2nd Gens giving us 125 each. Fifteen 1st Gens giving us 625 each. The difficulty scale would probably have to be expanded, lest we become an all-consuming tide of frog and pun.
It would kind of make sense for it to as well from a lore perspective. My meaning is that a lot of what we're researching nowadays is stuff the Lizardmen have... Forgot. Not all of it for sure *gestures at dino stuff and Slann spawning* but stuff from the vaults like Forging Districts or magic forges? That sounds more like stuff we just lost along the way.

And then there's the stuff which is pre-ordained for the Lizardmen to develop as they grow and which they've never learned before. It'd make sense to me for stuff to slow down outside those areas.
 
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So, beyond Slann spawning examination, and lizardmen soul examination, how many more researches do we have to do to revive Relic Priests?
Truthfully I don't expect you guys to gain that capacity before the chapter's concluded - there's multiple ways to obtain the capacity for bringing back the Relic Priests, some of which intersect at times. There's fully researching how to spawn new slann and then doing the capstone project allowing them to rehouse their souls in new bodies. There's interacting with the relic priests and figuring out methods to strengthen their souls until they're strong enough to regenerate their existing bodies (next time you take relic priest consultation they'll give you a bonus to a project and unlock said research chain). There's ... I know there was at least one more path to relic priest reconstitution. Forget what exactly.

Point being, they're both relatively lengthy chains of research before you can fully get them back, but as things are currently going I expect you'll be able to get at least one of them during the timeskip.
 
If we had the Relic Priest-consulting Slann instead of Maz?

EDIT: Zaqunda.

I still wonder sometimes, at what could've been different if the big-name canon Slann weren't in the running.
He'd have had a head start on a bunch of the Relic Priest options, among other things.

Assuming both Mazdamundi and Kroak were by default out in space? I could see you guys going for either Adohi-Tegha or Huintenuchli, since the ability to see the future to an extent is an appealing thing, and SV does love its tech. But it's hard to say. In any case, I'm looking forward to giving you guys a glimpse of what they've been up to.
 
He'd have had a head start on a bunch of the Relic Priest options, among other things.

Assuming both Mazdamundi and Kroak were by default out in space? I could see you guys going for either Adohi-Tegha or Huintenuchli, since the ability to see the future to an extent is an appealing thing, and SV does love its tech. But it's hard to say. In any case, I'm looking forward to giving you guys a glimpse of what they've been up to.
I assume Lord Kroak has been Master of Dooming it up out there and punching daemons in the squidgy bits with his soul.

(Tbh: Kroak would be the Master Frog to come up with Lizardmen Ki Rata and then teach it to Ten-Zlati because he's to inconvenienced by being dead to use the physical portions properly)
 
I assume Lord Kroak has been Master of Dooming it up out there and punching daemons in the squidgy bits with his soul.

(Tbh: Kroak would be the Master Frog to come up with Lizardmen Ki Rata and then teach it to Ten-Zlati because he's to inconvenienced by being dead to use the physical portions properly)
He has been engaging in esoteric activities. Can't say more for the moment.

I figure slann physical combat resembles Ki Rata on the rare occasion they actually have to use their bodies to fight - they poke their opponent with a finger and channel energy into them until they explode. An actual Ki Rata analogue for lizardmen, though?

A topic for later days.
 
He has been engaging in esoteric activities. Can't say more for the moment.

I figure slann physical combat resembles Ki Rata on the rare occasion they actually have to use their bodies to fight - they poke their opponent with a finger and channel energy into them until they explode. An actual Ki Rata analogue for lizardmen, though?

A topic for later days.
And then you have oddballs lile Kee'naa Nuu who are like. SWOLE ON YE!

I'm gonna be so happy when we can inject more K6BD in this quest. It goes so well with Magical Bullshit.
 
While we're on the topic of crossovers, I've had an idea for a nanoha crossover with 40k for a while, but I haven't had the energy, time, or 40k knowledge to bring it to life
 
It'd have to be done carefully to account for all the metaphysics and such, but it could be a very fruitful task.

Poked at it a bit, the main issue is deciding which setting trumps the other, and how. I can't see an easy way to do it without subordinating one setting to the other. For instance, the most obvious one is making 40k one of the 777,777 worlds, but that trivializes the 40k half of the setting. It basically has to be a setting merge. My take on it is basically making Throne the webway centre, and expanding the scale and role of this incredibly potent transport network in the universe. As a bastion of Old One tech, it basically denotes all Warp travel, and travelling anywhere in 40k without guidance from it one way or another is even harder than in default 40k. Every major faction barring the Necrons has a hold there somehow, with the Dark Eldar having succesfully set up Commoragh somehow as a pseudo-throne. Throne itself is basically a giant mess: because the Old One architecture is nigh impossible to meaningfully damage, everyone is forced to fight in an endless labyrinth of inactive inscrutable architecture. Other ideas I've thrown around are the Adeptus Custodes using the areas of Throne they control to flood the Astronomicom's light into the paths, with the Imperium using these guidelines to travel (an explanation to how the Astronomicon functions without blinding every psyker who looks towards Terra's general direction). Lots of stuff can be merged, like mixing the gods of the various species with unbound angels, and using soul powered martial arts as an explanation for how the Imperial Guard can fight Tyranids and not die instantly to poisons, for instance. There's also an opportunity to explore the less well known races. Like the Hrud. I want to run a Hrud quest now. Darn.

[the following is a rough board of ideas/notes. A lot is not written down.]

Cosmology: Chaos/Void, Throne, Material Realm
There are three realms, though in truth it would be more proper to say there are two and a half. The Material Realm, or "realspace" exists, and the Chaos Void impresses upon it. Throne is metaphorically the shadow cast upon the wall, sitting interposed and yet separate from the rest.
Throne is Malal? Yes. Throne is the webway and Commorragh as well. A Made up Chaos God, used as a foundation.

Automata: Beings of pure materium, without the influence of "souls" or whatnot. The C'tan are the main one, as are most AI. the Necrons became this. Megarachnids, Q'orl, Kroot and the like also count.
Mortals: All races born on the material realms, specifically those born naturally, without interference or the like. Crawling from the muck into ascendence. Humans, Tau, Demiurg, Nicassar, Stryxis, Tarellians, and so on.
Servants: Crafted by the elder ones, the Old Ones Who Were Gods, these races have a butt ton of advantages. Orks, Eldar, Hrud, Jokaero/Kinebrach, Ur-ghul and so on, all fall in this category. Servants grow consistently with power as they age. They freely pass between realms using the gifts and tools the old ones granted them. Neutral in balance between soul and shell.
Kindred: Warp creatures that exist, the "natives" of throne. Shifting between the real and unreal, skirting the edges and alleyways of Throne. Tyranids, Enslavers, and the like. These are defined by how they exist within, yet stand apart from, the warp. Khrave, Rak'gol, Thyrrus, and Laer count as this.
Angels: Ideas and Values bound into physical form. Each Angel is an ideal that finds form in the ashen fields between realms. Gods are a kind of angel, and are in many ways the ultimate form of these. Angels can be summoned much in the manner of devils, by binding their names onto a body cast of celestial ash. Angels reincarnate from a blank slate, growing with the tales of their exploits.
Daemons/Devils: the same kind of being, whether bound or unbound. Devils, being the bound form, Celestial Ash is required to make masks for them, as with masks come names, and with names come existence. Otherwise, Daemons are just masses of energy and stories unbound. These can coalesce under their own gravity into actual beings, especially if anchored by something. Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons, for instance, are created when the Daemon ascends their existence as mortals/servants or devils respectively, with their previously limited existence being coalesced as a star would be under the weight of their power. Every devil is ultimately always weaker than the daemon they are forged from. Devils rarely leave throne, as they greatly fear reverting to their primal state.
Inheritors: Those who have cast aside their past self in order to become something greater. Hero units are a great example, and have managed to "ascend", at least partially, their previous existence. There is a long path here, and the vast majority never make it. The God Emperor of Mankind is the example at the end of this path, and the Primarchs are all naturally on it, though some are further along than others. This path is exclusive to Throne, as Umbra are a requirement to proceed. Umbra technically fall here.


Factions in Throne
Eldar
  • Drukhari
  • Slave Species
  • Harlequins
  • Ynnari
Hrud Guilds
  • Cult of Qah
  • Stryxis Merchants
  • Galg Mercenaries
  • Slaugth Fleshcrafters
  • Jokaero/Kinebranch
  • Lacrymales
Imperial
  • Custodes
  • Ordo Terminus
  • Mechanicus Luna
Chaos
  • Laer Empire
  • Rak'Gol
  • Huron Blackheart
Wildcards
  • Orks
  • Genestealer Gangs
  • Umbra
Wildlife
  • Enslavers
  • Mask Monkeys

Of course, there is still the obvious problem of actually putting KSBD in. Fitting the Seven Black Emperors is especially awkward, and I'm tempted to cheat by saying they died a long time ago.
 
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That is a very interesting way of fusing the two. I think it could make for a rather nice story, actually.

Seven Black Emperors are relatively easy to fit in, actually, given their association with sin - they take the place of the Chaos Gods.
 
That is a very interesting way of fusing the two. I think it could make for a rather nice story, actually.

Seven Black Emperors are relatively easy to fit in, actually, given their association with sin - they take the place of the Chaos Gods.

That would clash heavily with... the entirety of the Horus Heresy, really, and for me, the key concept behind the deimurges was that they were fundamentally human, mortal, flawed. Not embodied ideas. Also, replacing the chaos gods means I would have to rewrite most of 40k as a setting. I'm also leery of actually "expanding" the setting, so to speak. As in, I would rather repurpose leavings than write things with no basis, from scratch. Everything on that list is technically canon 40k (at least, according to lexicanum), and there's so much room that fitting KSBD into the setting is more like filling in blanks than making things up wholesale. If I wanted to write original stuff, I would write other things. Fitting things that really shouldn't have fit together has always been the appeal of creating AU's for me. Perhaps then, aligning the 7 with the different factions? Gog-Agog could be tied to the Slaught, for instance, and Jadis could be matched with the Eldar somehow... ( I specifically want them to not be chaos aligned. That's what devils are for.)
 
I think it might be a good idea to have actual conversation as to what we want our first god to be; it's been a running topic so far but without much actual focus. Until now I don't think it's really been an issue, but with the Fog Demon soon to be dealt with and the requisite research already done it seems like the time to make more a concerted effort to nail down what we actually want, especially because given that per @Xantalos we won't have to use the god seed (if that's what we end up doing with the Fog Demon) immediately and therefore have a bit more leeway in the fundamental concepts/principles that underpin our first god.

So far as I've seen the general feeling from the thread is a preference for a god of death/the dead/afterlife as our first god.

(Of course if someone has a strong belief that something else would be preferable I'd love to hear it, but so far I haven't seen anything moving the needle that much.)

I'm not sure it's overwhelming but it's certainly significant enough and happens to be my own personal inclination as well and so that that end I collated all the meaningful concepts from the thread; it was by no means an exhaustive trawl, but I think I caught everything major. Some of it is only the base concept, some of it is just visuals, and some are more expanded, but I think it can all serve as a useful starting point:

I'm pretty out of it right now but before I forget we need a actual concrete list of the kind of Gods we kinda must get.

Leader/King God.

God of Architecture/Geomancy

God of Forging/Creation

God of Purification/Healing

God of The Dead/Death

God of Magic.

God of Heroism.

God of Strategy.


That's all I got right now. Now I sleep.

Some of these seem like they could be pretty easily merged. Ex:

Creation/Architecture

Creation/magic

Purification/magic

Death/Heroism

Leader/Literally anything

All seem like they would work as designs for a god. I don't think going super wide and specialized would be better than a smaller number of somewhat more hybrid gods-we only have so many lizards to worship them after all.

@Xantalos, what could you tell us about gods with the following:
  • life, Fertility, and Motherhood
  • Earth, Geomancy, and Warden
  • Creation, Forging, and Smith
  • Death, Afterlife, and Warden
  • Victory, Strategy, and Tactician
  • Heroism, Valor, and Paragon
  • Purification, Light, and Healing
  • Power, Authority, and King
  • Wind, Exploration, and Traveler

If we turn the Daemon into a God, I think a Death god would be best, on the grounds that it would let us preserve our guys souls for later use and make an afterlife, and possibly make ressurection easier/possible at all.

On that note:

Mictotl, Lord of Slumber
Representation: A turtle with a city on its back, formless fog.
Domains: Mists, Rest, Death.
Methods of Worship: Meditation
Favored Foes: Loud things, alternately, Orks
Blessing thematics: Mist, Sleep, The Dead

The second is a god of Death and involved considerably more.... umm proactive thought on my part. Mostly I got a cool image in my head, combined it with some other things I wanted and this is what came out.

Name: Mictlantec, The Dead God; Risen Once in Glory, Fallen Now to Safeguard the Dead

On the eve of the battle the dream comes, a waking vision flashing in sequence across the waiting ranks of saurus, skink, and kroxigor alike; a pond under the shining sun, and in its waters stands an unrotting corpse matching their own self but for flesh stripped clean away from the skeleton beneath. Gold inlays, shining emeralds, and rubies so red they nearly drip adorn bones blacker than the deepest moonless midnight. Where here and there the saurus' of the dream lacks scales and muscles on an arm, or the ribs of the kroxigors' chest is exposed to humid air, or half a chameleon skinks body is stripped clean, vines creep across bone blooming with tiny flowers in all the riotous colors of life.

Then a voice whispers a dead language, a dying tongue that no mortal mouth has ever uttered and the dream breaks to drift away on the sighing evening winds. A weight settles over the assembled army. Long before dawn they march away to meet the foe with silent grace and vicious purpose, and still the weight lies upon their forms; not a dragging force but a grounding one.

Of the gathered saurus, kroxigors and skinks perhaps one in a thousand can even properly sense it, but to the slann who leads them they are warriors clad not only in the finest arms and armor produced in living memory, but so too in a shining corona of muted blue. Sinking into their flesh, bones, and then deeper still until it does not simply surround them but is of them.

Victory is almost perfunctory, nearly an afterthought, and frankly not nearly as costly as it might have been.

Especially to the slann it is the aftermath which interests, as somber clad skink priests and their equally solemn kroxigor and saurus attendants comb through the battlefield, performing complex rites over the bodies of the fallen. Here and there excited chatter is marked as strangely unblemished bodies are carefully ferried from their final resting places to a nearby field and a careful study is made of the nearby bodies of foes. A corpse is selected, often by way of mystical evidence but sometimes by dint of witness testimony from survivors, and that too carried away to a seperate field.

Hours later the work is done and the remaining lizardmen retreat to a suitable distance from the battlefield to watch the proceedings; bodies still lie across the field of battle in their thousands, though few enough in their original positions. All across the battlefield skink priests raise staffs of bone and chant in a tongue the living cannot comprehend, a muted blue glow rises from the ground, burning intensely where it touch bodies and a sharp wind rises whipping across the field.

A drum sounds in time with their hearts. With each beat the indistinct sounds of life rise and rise, and from all around the battlefield the wild creatures of the jungle come to attention.

Their cautious approach mindless of the watching ranks of lizardmen, ignoring the distracted movements of the priests they nose in on the cooling bodies. At long last the final beat sounds, the wind sighs away into nothing but a whimper and the fest begins. Scavengers and predators eat alike without care for who or what eats at their side, swarms of insects gnaw away the flesh of the fallen.

Here and there patches of flesh go undisturbed by fauna as green shoots emerge into the cooling air, rapidly growing into patches of young flowers or stripling trees. Exhausted, the skink priests all but collapse; their attendants rushing forward to carry them from the former battlefield, and then as nearly one the remnants of the army turn away and begin the long march home.

A dead voice sighs, contented for the first time ever.

Category: Death
Variety: Reuse
Domain: New Life

Representations: Skeletal figures of Skinks, Saurus, or Kroxigors; with the flesh either completely or partially removed, often with bones of black obsinite inlaid with gold, and or various jewels. Often juxtaposed by scenes of verdant life, plants growing out of decaying flesh, or animals feasting on what flesh remains. The rising or midday say is also an important aspect, representing the new purpose which the dead serve in death.

Worship: Dying, Communing with Relic Priests, Recovery of Lizardmen dead, reuse of broken things/corpses for new purposes, Reverse engineering

Blessings:

Fear the Dying: Under this blessings there is a small chance that when an individual lizardman received a mortal wound they will transfer that same wound over to the opponent who dealt it too them.

Aide of the Dead: This blessings calls upon those who have gone to Mictlantec's Cenote already to aid the living; their voices whisper in the ears of the lizardmen, their muscles lend strength, and their wills sustain their siblings.


What is Broken Can See New Purpose: The dead know much that the living do not, or that they have forgotten; one with this blessing upon them hears the voices of the dead whispering in their ears of long forgotten secrets of a broken object or piece of architecture which lies before them.

After Life:

A deep cenote with a perpetual mid morning sun overhead. Sun baked ledges and shadowed caverns dot the sides, growing more and more sparse as they near the top until the sides of the cenote are naught but stone, with few handholds. The voices of the living can faintly be heard in the highest levels of caverns, calling out questions and pleas to the dead.

This is a place of respite from the constant duty and activity of life, but it is also a place of challenge; the waters run deep and the deepest caverns dug into the sides offer obstacles and tantalizing rewards. From high up the lizardmen can hear their living siblings calling for aid and many take this as a challenge, and so attempt to climb up and out of the cenote, but the walls resists; handholds shift and disappear the higher one climbs, water slicks the stone, and strange gaunt creatures swoop from out of the sun to distract and dislodge climbers. Still it is tantalizingly possible.

Sacred Sites/Sacred Artifacts:

Quinametzin: At the edges or and within those places sacred to Mictlantec there stand great statues of black stone, carved in the images of the god, often inscribed with the name of a fallen Lizardman thought to have a particular connection.Though most lizardmen are, if not content, then at least willing to stay a while within the afterlife there are occasionally those who cannot or will not stay; these find some way back to the realm of the living to once against the serve their race, and when they return to the living world they find these stone statues and inhabit them. Resembling the bodies they bore in life these Quinametzin can stand as tall as the rider of the Carnosaur, though only the kroxigor who return in this manner are so large.

Place of Passing: When Mictlantec was made, long did the slann and skink priests search for a suitable location to connect the realm of death to be and the physical world. Here it was that Mictlantec fell, through fire and pain, into those shallow pools and quenched themselves until the pools reflected not the skies but such a deep black that it seemed to swallow all reflections. Careful alterations were made to the surrounding terrain, subtly bringing it more inline.

Then skink and slann alike waited. And waited. And waited yet more.

At long last from each of the pools emerged ghostly creatures never seen before on this or any other living world. Ignoring all the assembled Lizardmen they scattered in every direction, towards each of the then extant temple-cities. In each they sought out some number of skinks; one, five, two, seven, there was no particular pattern to the numbers except that each had suffered injury in battle at some point.

Some had been healed completely, others still bore the scars and signs, and three had lost limbs entirely. Each had only to see these ghastly ethereal apparitions before they dropped all other duties; in some cases they called to particular saurus or kroxigors along the way, in most they did not, but each made their way from the temple-cities.

On arriving at the Place of Passing, all at once despite the differences in distances, they each stared into the pools. Thus was the priesthood of Mictlantec born.

Idols of the Fallen: created from the bones, skins, chitin, and other remains of both fallen lizardmen and their foes, these idols exude the power of Mictlantec; guiding Lizardmen souls, and serving as a method of contacting those who have already passed on.

Name: Mictlantec, The Dead God; Risen Once in Glory, Fallen Now to Safeguard the Dead
Symbols: Skink/Kroxigor/Saurus Corpses, the Sun
Category: Death
Variety: Reuse
Domain: New Life
Methods of Worship: Funerary Rites, Communication with Relic Priests, Dying
Blessing Thematics: Understanding, Dying Curses, Lent Strength
The underlying notion is that of a Death God whose whole shtick is taking dead/dying/broken things and giving them new purpose or turning them to new ends. Also, yes, that is an attempt to give us Lizardmen Ushabti because I find the concept from of them from the Tomb Kings incredibly cool.

Death/Rest/Mist sounds like a pretty potent and helpful set of portfolios. Especially for a Death/Afterlife God.

Death being portrayed as resting after a lifetime of duty, while the resting place is guarded by Mist.

So Xantalos, since your here, could lay out the difference between

Death/Rest/Mist

Rest/Mist/Death

Mist/Rest Death

And how they would function exactly? That way we have this cleared up and can just reference back to this post?

A couple of options for representative images of our Mist Death God.




I really like the first one, but it's a little human looking for a nation of toad people.

A death god?

May I suggest:

The Death Bat Camazotz

Or perhaps...


The Obsidian Butterfly

Now, one last thing. I think it would probably be best to hold off tossing out any more specific concepts until we have a broad consensus on what the underlying thematic/theological principles for the god are.
 
Honestly, I want our first god to either be a death god or a god of fate. Both have their uses to the lizardmen and can be of use now.

The god of death will mostly give a nice advantage in the warp as it'll secure lizardmen souls. This will create lizardmen forces within the warp who then can be used fuck up demons in the warp as well as the materium. And if we do it right, we can pull a seraphon and have dead lizardmen join the living in battle.

A god of fate can potentially "streamline" Slann prophecies of the future. These prophecies will either be clearer or we see further into the future. It'll most likely depend on the gods power level. Said god of prophecies will also be useful in fucking tzeentch over by screwing with his plans.
 
@CuttleFish2.0 I'm thinking that functionally in a death god what we need is security for our dead and the ability for the Slaan to interact with said dead. Thematics wise security is thus an important part of it. Otherwise it doesn't really fulfill the purpose we want for it, i.e stopping Chaos from eating them.

To provide security to the dead is thus I think something a large number of folks would want.

For ease of access I think themes of luccidity or training eternally or vigilance would do well. Because it means the dead are maintained in a lucid state, which means Slann can talk to them easily. It also provides a good basis for calling them back to the Materium.

Otherwise I'm not sure what other Base Principles we want, in the sense of "we need a death god for these reasons, and these principles fulfill those needs."
 
Honestly I see the idea that the death god might be one who is also a god of architecture as what currently fits the Lizardmen most. While they align Death with War... We want this god to make a safe spot for them.

And like our architects do, this god is going out into the (metaphysically and not) dangerous Warp(/Jungle) and promoting order by creating a safe place.

To me, that idea fits far more. A thought more of, "Yes Death is a dangerous place, that is why {Insert God Name Here} built for us and the others a place to recover, to gather strength, and a bulwark to push out of to fight our eternal enemies."

So I'd much prefer a god of Architecture/Death/Order I think... And still would want it to be an ascended Awanabuildthat (I can't remember that skink's spelling.) The dude just fits.
 
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