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Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]

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Nix's Warden said:
And the QM has outright said killing the bugs won't make us go Monster. Do fuck them and kill them all.
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I don't expect us exterminating the Ayacmanik will instantly make us 'Monsters', but it looks to me like a step in that direction. Maybe the first we've taken in the quest, maybe the fifth, but it's a step. QM has said that the People V. Monsters outcome isn't going to be a black/white choice, it's a conglomeration of all the choices we make in the course of this quest, until one side or the other reaches a 'tipping point' and we fall more firmly into that category. And I want to stay as far on the side of People as I can. Because people can become Monsters, but Monsters cannot become People.

Xantalos said:
I can confirm that exterminating the Ayacmanik will not in and of itself guarantee the monstrous ending to this chapter.
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Thank you for pseudo-supporting my point even if somewhat tangentially.

...I'm probably using that word wrong, but fuck it.
 
Xantalos said:
You don't even really have to devote slann towards it if you don't want to, though that may be wise depending on the type of god you're making. Basically, the meter ticks up on its own, but very slowly. You get a generic 'perform ritual of [god]' option to help boost it along, But other actions will also be tagged as synergizing with the God creation while it's going on, so if you start an architect god being made and then build a lot of cities and make a lot of weapons and stuff, those actions would also boost the god meter. Depends on the god which actions get flagged, and I'll probably also introduce new actions to help for the duration of the meter being filled. Designing their temples and rituals and symbols and whatnot.
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Ah that's interesting. And to me severely reduces the worth of dumping the Fog into it for four reasons.

First, we can devote Slann to rituals boosting it, immediately overrunning the potential benefits of the Fog if we put in 150 5th gen, and 10 4th gen. (Caveat the numbers may not be accurate if its not 1 to 1 but I hope the intent is still clear) Second, there are other actions which can improve the god meter, that do not require Slann, reducing it to some equivalent worth in actual actions. Third, using it forces it to have some form of mist like aesthetics. In otherwords we have to pay with some limited design choices and/or agency to get full efficacy out of it. Finally, there is a one time option we could spend it on that won't come up again, which is feeding it to Sotek to make him more buff.

Comparing all of those I see little reason to spend it on boosting the death god in such a way that actually restricts its aesthetic options when we have a more unique opportunity on our plates.
 
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BungieONI said:
Ah that's interesting. And to me severely reduces the worth of dumping the Fog into it for four reasons.

First, we can devote Slann to rituals boosting it, immediately overrunning the potential benefits of the Fog if we put in 150 5th gen, and 10 4th gen. (Caveat the numbers may not be accurate if its not 1 to 1 but I hope the intent is still clear) Second, there are other actions which can improve the god meter, that do not require Slann, reducing it to some equivalent worth in actual actions. Third, using it forces it to have some form of mist like aesthetics. In otherwords we have to pay with some limited design choices and/or agency to get full efficacy out of it. Finally, there is a one time option we could spend it on that won't come up again, which is feeding it to Sotek to make him more buff.

Comparing all of those I see little reason to spend it on boosting the death god in such a way that actually restricts its aesthetic options when we have a more unique opportunity on our plates.
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That's Slann not spent on research though, we can STILL wipe it of all conceptual alignments and make use of it as raw Warp stuff, and finally Xantalos already said that Sotek would only get a minor power increase from eating the Fog demon because there is no conceptual similarities.

So I'd rather use raw 100 warp stuff mind fog option
 
Nix's Warden said:
That's Slann not spent on research though, we can STILL wipe it of all conceptual alignments and make use of it as raw Warp stuff, and finally Xantalos already said that Sotek would only get a minor power increase from eating the Fog demon because there is no conceptual similarities.

So I'd rather use raw 100 warp stuff mind fog option
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You're right in that these are all factually true. But there is something further to consider. What does using the 100 form get us? I'd comfortably hold that the 200 form might save us a turn and thus ten years, but not the 100 form. Because that scale of progress is a tenth instead of a fifth, and based on our desire for a death god which means we will probably see plans to get it started next turn(I want to), and need to build more cities including one attuned to Shyish and thus be attuned with death, it is reasonable to presume it is within the bonuses gained within a turn. I.e we won't lose or gain a turn from taking it. Furthermore along that line of thought combat might also increase it and we will begin fighting soon. Not next turn, but the turn after I wish to start moving on the Orks in some fashion with our Saurus.

So if we go with it we gain a death god no faster or slower and Sotek misses out on a minor boost. Which is like, eh okay? It's a thing. I'd much rather perfer a death god and a slightly stronger Sotek.
 
Xantalos said:
Makes him a bit stronger and makes it easier for him to eat gods in the future since it becomes part of his mythos. He'll get a little counter detailing how many gods he's eaten.
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Im a....kinda concerned about that. THAT Seems like like something that can easily lead to monster hood once we go interstellar and start running into alien races.
 
Xantalos said:
Never heard of any of those powered by cannibalism aside from Kirby, but yeah basically.
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I was making a joke about God Eater, but there are probably more.
Nix's Warden said:
Im a....kinda concerned about that. THAT Seems like like something that can easily lead to monster hood once we go interstellar and start running into alien races.
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Could also let him eventually eat the Chaos Gods. Because the Horned Rat needs to get fucked.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
I agree.

Hm...are there any other gods that we plan to make which could take advantage of the whole lethargy-sleep-depressing thing the Fog has going?
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Nothing from Canon that I can remember. Which just leads back to the idea of conceptually whipping it clean.
AbZHz101 said:
I was making a joke about God Eater, but there are probably more.

Could also let him eventually eat the Chaos Gods. Because the Horned Rat needs to get fucked.
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Those aren't related, and honestly for the former, it would probably be easier to just reach Mag 10 and Ritual the chaos gods. I highly doubt Sotek could eat Khorne and NOT get fucked up by it.
 
Xantalos said:
Makes him a bit stronger and makes it easier for him to eat gods in the future since it becomes part of his mythos. He'll get a little counter detailing how many gods he's eaten.
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Krillin God Owned Counter: 1

But yeah. Frankly, I'm already a little concerned with how strong Sotek is and how much of our population worships him. We should focus on getting some more gods out to balance out the faith before we just become the murder happy snake-toad people.

Death is a somewhat reasonable start, and we get a boost to it. Then probably magic. Then maybe some sort of light themed god, considering who leads us.
 
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My ideal list of stater gods are

Sotek: War
???: Death
???: Architecture/Construction/Defensive Warfare
???: Magic
???: Forging
???: Light/Healing/Purification for maximum Fuck Chaos
 
Xantalos said:
Makes him a bit stronger and makes it easier for him to eat gods in the future since it becomes part of his mythos. He'll get a little counter detailing how many gods he's eaten.
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This amuses me.

Nix's Warden said:
Im a....kinda concerned about that. THAT Seems like like something that can easily lead to monster hood once we go interstellar and start running into alien races.
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I'm not really seeing where your logic is coming from there. Can you walk us through what you had in mind please?

RaptorusMaximus said:
I agree.

Hm...are there any other gods that we plan to make which could take advantage of the whole lethargy-sleep-depressing thing the Fog has going?
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I don't think directly. There's not many gods we have in mind that I can think of right off the top of my head that benefit from aligning with Literal Depression. The first alternative I can think of is a god/goddess of Mists and Magic. The second is more Ulgu-like, a god/goddess of magical nullification. The third is even more Ulgu-like, a god of fog and obscuration which confounds and depresses the enemy.

Basically pick something which makes you think of the Shadow Wind Ulgu and you have a good start.

Tylonius said:
Krillain God Owned Counter: 1

But yeah. Frankly, I'm already a little concerned with how strong Sotek is and how much of our population worships him. We should focus on getting some more gods out to balance out the faith before we just become the murder happy snake-toad people.

Death is a somewhat reasonable start, and we get a boost to it. Then probably magic. Then maybe some sort of light themed god, considering who leads us.
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Something to remember is that Lizardmen aren't humans. They are pre-programmed to have authority and orders descend from the Slann mage-priests. Sotek getting more powerful will make them more attuned to aggressive action but they are still ruled by the Slann and the Slann don't worship any god so there is already an authority in place which can reel that in before it becomes an issue.
 
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Sounds good to me then!

Let's get this done so we don't lose lizardmen to the fucking chaos gods...and if Xeno's gods are absolute dicks to people we could have sotek eat them if they won't change.

Sort of like a mini-hashut gosling in the making and sotek eats that fucker for practice against the horned rat.
 
BungieONI said:
I'm not really seeing where your logic is coming from there. Can you walk us through what you had in mind please?
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If Sotek becomes a God Eater, then as we expand across the stars and meet various races, we are going to end up having to exterminate some. Because they are Chaos worshipers, their assholes like the canonical Dark Elders, or their about to do something really freaking dumb and won't listen to us when we tell them not to.

Obviously, Sotek isn't up to eating the Chaos Gods, so he's libel to start eating the gods of races we exterminate, because it's worshipers are going to die, and the god with it, so Sotek might as well eat the thing and grow stronger right?

That starts a very slippery slope though. Extermination is an eventuality, and something we need to keep an eye on, but God Eating? Especially if Sotek starts absorbing some of the traits of the gods it eats from conceptual resonance?
 
We will have to watch this very carefully when we do feed the gods to our pantheon...especially so they don't become total monsters but must do what has to be done, no more. Then go forth and try to pick up the pieces and make things better.
 
Nix's Warden said:
If Sotek becomes a God Eater, then as we expand across the stars and meet various races, we are going to end up having to exterminate some. Because they are Chaos worshipers, their assholes like the canonical Dark Elders, or their about to do something really freaking dumb and won't listen to us when we tell them not to.

Obviously, Sotek isn't up to eating the Chaos Gods, so he's libel to start eating the gods of races we exterminate, because it's worshipers are going to die, and the god with it, so Sotek might as well eat the thing and grow stronger right?

That starts a very slippery slope though. Extermination is an eventuality, and something we need to keep an eye on, but God Eating? Especially if Sotek starts absorbing some of the traits of the gods it eats from conceptual resonance?
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Oh I see, for part of it. The dark elves don't worship anything other than Slaanesh to my knowledge so that's not an issue because eating a Chaos God is impractically impossible.

Other Chaos factions, same thing.

For more standard alien factions I am not consigned to needing to exterminate them. And separate from that most of the one off non-Tao are going to be pretty outclassed by the Spacefaring Lizardmen, which means we have leverage.

Stopping someone when you have the sorts of power Spacefaring Lizardmen might be costly I'll give you that, but extermination doesn't seem necessary.

Having concern over what the thread does is definitely a valid one though. But that's where convincing people that "maybe we shouldn't eat it" is a good idea in some places. And in my view as an aside if he's got a mythos of eating gods eating Greater Daemons should be much easier, and I don't think people have much issue with causing True Death to daemons.
 
BungieONI said:
Oh I see, for part of it. The dark elves don't worship anything other than Slaanesh to my knowledge so that's not an issue because eating a Chaos God is impractically impossible.

Other Chaos factions, same thing.

For more standard alien factions I am not consigned to needing to exterminate them. And separate from that most of the one off non-Tao are going to be pretty outclassed by the Spacefaring Lizardmen, which means we have leverage.

Stopping someone when you have the sorts of power Spacefaring Lizardmen might be costly I'll give you that, but extermination doesn't seem necessary.

Having concern over what the thread does is definitely a valid one though. But that's where convincing people that "maybe we shouldn't eat it" is a good idea in some places. And in my view as an aside if he's got a mythos of eating gods eating Greater Daemons should be much easier, and I don't think people have much issue with causing True Death to daemons.
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We should also consider that eating a god doesn't necessarily mean killing it.

Consumption is very mythic and often results in rebirth rather than straight up death; Sotek being a snake also fits with that. We could conceivable create a pattern wherein we have Sotek eat racial gods when we begin integrating an alien population and then some turns later, 'sheds' his skin and from that the same god emerges, presumably changed to better suite our purposes. Mostly I imagine we would do this with war gods, and in one fell swoop alter them and make them narratively subservient to Sotek as their new progenitor.
 
Also, lets remember, there is a tech to alter Lizardmen gods if we want it. If he gets the wrong eugenics canabalism traits, the Slann just gotta be like, "No. Stop that."
 
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