Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
- Location
- CET
Irl it took most nations till 1850 or 1870 to start industrializing.
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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
Short term advantage in exchange for longterm issues.
Like I'm saying now, we should be a little less gung-ho about radical changes to our governmental/economic system.
But I worry that people are going to pursue a serious case of penis envy into problem.
Entrenching a group of aristrocrats with the power of the purse just smells like problems to me. But hey, I usually lurk.
*le shrug*
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Science owes more to the steam engine than the steam engine owes to science."
A lot of the theoretical fields are locked behind having access to steam power, which requires industrialization. Along with a bunch of other things, you literally had nothing to research until you really got going with industrialization.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
I don't want plan freedom to win.
So I suggest we of plan reliability to put fourth our support behind plan laws to prevent the worse from coming to pass.
[X] Plan And Lawmaking for All
So I suggest we of plan reliability to put fourth our support behind plan laws to prevent the worse from coming to pass.
[X] Plan And Lawmaking for All
Approval voting.
You can vote for multiple plans at the same time.
- Location
- Illinois
UH isn't just teh evil nobles though. Like, it's pretty much our ruling class, the people actually running stuff, or who own significant resources in the nation. Our miltary officers, our administrators and, yes, our nobility.
Their opinion is not going to just be 'fuck the common man' or whatever. They look at the big picture stuff that your avergae common man isn't going to see.
This makes them miss a lot of small details, of course, but when it comes to who to give the power over the purse to, your ruling class is a great option.
Yes. We can bring up the Lower House to power of the purse next ConCon to equalise the powers, while getting the benefits of constitutional monarchy and the increased PW per turn that it grants us. As it stands, we get it out of the way now, so we can push further reforms in the future.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
[X] Plan Reliably and gradually
[X] Plan And Lawmaking for All
[X] Plan And Lawmaking for All
No one is saying never to do it, just not doing it now.
Doing it now allows us to push further liberal reforms, like suffrage and education through in later ConCons, since we won't have to deal with this issue then.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
What makes the other options unable to do this?
After all we are ahead in terms of treating minorities above everyone else despite being behind in free speech.
Frankly the Sketch should be eating their royalty right now, roasted on the fires of their palaces, because whatever band aid their concon applied it would not have held once the news came of the rise of the Federation.
Worker unrest is a huge fear of laissez faire capitalists and that fear doesn't make them accommodating, it makes them brutal. That's where the devolved power went - robber barons who regard 90% of the population as slightly lower than the coal they burn and put their own wealth over anyone else's blood.
Many thousands of men thrown into unemployment and the response is to pack up the plant and machinery for sale abroad removing hope that the work will return? To slash education budgets and take away their children's hope too? That will draw protests at the least and, whatever the political theorists might want by way of reform, the local response will be to send in the cavalry. Unlike OTL though the economic situation is worse and there's the example of the Federation having spectacular success just across the Channel. The violence will escalate. The Sketch have big cities where mobs can build up steam, they don't have a big army at home.
The Sketch behaving as in the last update is suicide. They cannot afford to sit back and sneer at the mainlanders while pulling international deals out their ass to save the fortunes of some factory owners. They have to make active war on the Federation.
Worker unrest is a huge fear of laissez faire capitalists and that fear doesn't make them accommodating, it makes them brutal. That's where the devolved power went - robber barons who regard 90% of the population as slightly lower than the coal they burn and put their own wealth over anyone else's blood.
Many thousands of men thrown into unemployment and the response is to pack up the plant and machinery for sale abroad removing hope that the work will return? To slash education budgets and take away their children's hope too? That will draw protests at the least and, whatever the political theorists might want by way of reform, the local response will be to send in the cavalry. Unlike OTL though the economic situation is worse and there's the example of the Federation having spectacular success just across the Channel. The violence will escalate. The Sketch have big cities where mobs can build up steam, they don't have a big army at home.
The Sketch behaving as in the last update is suicide. They cannot afford to sit back and sneer at the mainlanders while pulling international deals out their ass to save the fortunes of some factory owners. They have to make active war on the Federation.
- Their own elites will hate and fear it to the point that not attacking is politically impossible.
- The example of its success genuinely would be a threat to their system.
- The patriotic fervour of a war lets them demonise the Federation agenda in the eyes of the workers despite the economics.
- They desperately need to get thousands of angry young men off their soil.
- War spending lets them keep the gravy train going for a bit.
Following from this, consider that the entire field of Thermodynamics, which is fundamental to modern physics, was born in the pressured chambers of the industrial revolution in order to make steam engines more efficient.
- Location
- Somewhere
What about early communication between the LH and UH, we can test the water to see how they handle minor lawmaking together through turtle speed. The two haven't worked at the same level for a while.
Shoving them together a decade from now seems unstable.
Yeah, established interests.
See, if they were as obviously impartial as you are proposing, the Lower House and the people at large wouldn't be agitating for a more active voice in affairs. I remember the Guilds entirely too well to be charitable, and I worry you are rushing it.
Give it time to show both houses can work together before offloading more responsibility.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
I doubt us beating them counts as success.
- Location
- Illinois
Next ConCon is 25 years away.
That's a long time to let them all get ahead further, since they aren't going to be standing still.
Problem is that that is essentially turtling. We gain none of the benefits of a constitutional monarchy, lose PW in the next ConCon, and lose PW due to not having a devolved government.
Granting the Upper House power of the purse is only a single step up from what they are currently at. It's not a radical reform. It's not 'kids playing with fire'.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
You clearly missed something.
They how are the only ones already ahead of us, arnt going to be moving that fast, and everyone else whoes could be ahead arnt due to collapsing.
- Location
- Illinois
They aren't impartial, because nobody is. But we can shape events and manage them to prevent the worst of their excesses. And we can also play off each factions interests against each other to manage them, they aren't going to be able to force all the things they want through. They are still constrained by the thread and by each other.
Universal education is the kind of thing you handle in normal legislation, not constitutional conventions.
Suffrage is, but I will point out there is time for that. We're in 1841.
The US granted women the right to vote in 1920.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
And we disagree that your choice will shape it to prevent such excesses.