That have to compete with a bunch of things, like developing our espionage network in Hung and Nohon.
Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
That have to compete with a bunch of things, like developing our espionage network in Hung and Nohon.
- Location
- Illinois
We really need as big a government uograde as we can get here guys. We were already falling behind in industry due to not going laisse faire (WoAN on that, btw. THe gap closed a bit due to the crash, but we are still behind), and we never had enough PW to do everything we need in addition to upping our industry.
We need as much power spread out as we can, which means giving parliament more power. Current winning plan is the bare minimum we need, but going all out and giving the UH the purse will likely give us yet more PW, which is vital if we don't want to fall behind further.
We need as much power spread out as we can, which means giving parliament more power. Current winning plan is the bare minimum we need, but going all out and giving the UH the purse will likely give us yet more PW, which is vital if we don't want to fall behind further.
I distinctly remember seeing people exulting when the economic crash made it look like the Sketch were burning.
The sense of betrayal because they spent effort to dig themselves out of their economic hole is simply ridiculous.
You are deliberately proposing going to war with one of the top two powers in the world, and it's premiere naval power, at the same time you're fighting two wars on land.
As has been pointed out, at best, you manage to lose all three wars, at worst, you manage to push the Sketch and Nohon into a permanent alliance.
I don't often agree with Dutch, but seriously, man's right.
All the pearl clutching is ridiculous.
They don't have the right/don't deserve a navy? Because we said so?
Isn't this in part what we went to war with the Nohon over when they did it to the Hung?
As for morality, our oldest ally is still disentangling their economy from reliance on large-scale chattel slavery.
God no, that's silly. Let them industrialise.
Nohon is still a resource-poor island; industrialization makes them more dependent on factors they don't control, not less. They need to source raw materials from abroad from their external possessions. Those are the places you target and make less productive. Your espionage targets.
Chesun. Not!North America. Not!Siberia.
If you're really good, you set it up so that some of those possessions look attractive to the Sketch and the Halvyni.
You do realize we're about to take their spot as Supreme Power right now, just by minding our own business and waiting for them to screw themselves. So please, explain how the strategy that's already working is flawed.
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[X] Plan And Lawmaking for All
-[X] [UH] +1 PW - Minor lawmaking
-[X] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
-[X] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
-[X] [UH] +1 PW - Minor lawmaking
-[X] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
-[X] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
[X] Plan FREEDOM
They actually finished with that due to crisis.
No you don't.
You REALLY don't need radical governmental change in the middle of a major war with two powers.
Consider the non-mechanical consequences of giving a House that has literally no experience with lawmaking control of the purse. Or how you will reclaim the power of the purse from the Upper House, should you give it to them.
Incremental change has worked for you so far. Don't knock it.
TANSTAAFL.
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
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The upper house has de facto Minor Lawmaking now. It wasn't enshrined in the constitution, they just kept it from when Nokly was a young king, so they do have experience lawmaking. Please don't spread false statements.
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
The Upper House already has de facto Minor Lawmaking, so this is only a minor upgrade. The Lower House would go from Advisory to Minor Lawmaking, which is a bigger step yes, but the Upper House underwent the same jump in powers when Nokly became king and that turned out fine.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
That's literally just the next step up from the status quo, though. If Total Lawmaking was winning the vote, then maybe, but as it stands there's nothing here that represents a radical departure from the past.
Yes, please.
Chesun in particular is a great target. We've settled (reasonably) comfortably into our anti-imperialist arms-dealer role. Helping a foreign nation escape the chains of the nefarious Nohon is right up our alley. After this war, we can foment revolution there while we build the Trans-Kyberian Railway. When we finish the latter, we can set off the former and use that as a CB.
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan And Lawmaking for All
I don't want the upper house to have more power than the lower house.
I don't want the upper house to have more power than the lower house.
Nah. We just need to undercut the Sketch. They NEED profit and tea. We... Don't. We need to DO Hung and buy tea.
Buy tea at a better price. Even if we sell it at a loss in the end. Ensure Tea flow through OUR port first and formost.
Take the goals they have in Hung and turn them to ash while at the same time supporting Hung's regrowth.
Note that it wasn't due to any outbreak of morality, either.
Just pure pragmatism.
The Upper House does. The Lower House do not.
I'm pretty sure they jumped from veto, actually.
- Location
- Sweden
[X] Plan And Lawmaking for All
FREEDOM doesn't give the lower house power of the purse though, only minor lawmaking...
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Hmm, it was right after the ConCon though, since Poetyr died right afterwards. So it's not like the Upper House got any experience with their veto powers before suddenly getting the power of Minor Lawmaking.
Nope, they're at minor lawmaking and have been for years. They never gave up the power from when Nokly was a young king. Where do you think our midturn bills come from?
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
Because it took a global catastrophe for that to happen and they already recovered?
Note we still aren't the supreme power despite having our economy be the only one left standin when all others collasped.
And without them fucking over the Hung and boosting the Nohon we could have already be done with carrying the Hung's no doubt ungrateful asses and thus have more resources to devote to our own goals.
@Citino because I think giving the upper house the power of the purse will just cause all our PW costs to go up anyway? No point in having more PW if have to fight the UH just to get a budget passed.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
[X] Plan FREEDOM
-[X] [UH] 2 PW - Power of the purse
-[X] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
-[X] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
Lord Bynwyn Rymyvyn III, 190th Custodian of Bynwynshrine Wood, has changed his vote.
-[X] [UH] 2 PW - Power of the purse
-[X] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
-[X] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
Lord Bynwyn Rymyvyn III, 190th Custodian of Bynwynshrine Wood, has changed his vote.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
Hmmm. So do we know that we have to give power of the purse to Parliament if we want to upgrade our system of government up a stage?
Because if so, then Freedom becomes a lot more appealing, even with problems balancing the Houses.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
To add to this, here was our Constitutional vote back then.
We gave the Upper House the right of Veto but that immediately changed de facto to Minor Lawmaking. So technically, they did jump two upgrades in one step.
