[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
Citizens! In recent days it has come to the attention of the Patriarch that anti-Ymaryn republican radicals have been circulating pamphlets claiming that the Ancient Ymaryn would welcome in foreign guests only to sacrifice them to their gods, and that this proves the national lack of character of the People. Lies! Lies and slander! Do not believe those saying these things, but repudiate them immediately, and then find the nearest authority to report such activities to.

-From the Minister of Internal Safety

Addendum for Distribution to Authorized Scholars and Theologians:

Recent rumours of mass sacrifice by the Ancient Ymaryn are ludicrous on the face of them, their hatred of human sacrifice was well documented, but there are a number of finer points that you should be aware of when engaging with more experienced scholars advancing these arguments, as they stem from accidental or deliberate misreadings of ancient texts.

  • The ancient practice of lyllugew was a form of euthanasia practiced by ancient priests and shamans. By all accounts it was supposed to be a strictly controlled practice intended for those who were already dying, primarily the extremely elderly, grossly lamed, or terminally ill. Theoretically one was supposed to approach a priest or shaman on at least three different holy days (typically meaning approximately one month from start to end) where the priest would discuss the issue with the ill and attempt to ensure that death would be a release from pain. While obviously disturbing from a modern perspective, this practice was not in any way a form of sacrifice, and from discussion in their literature it was mostly meant for honoured members of their society at the end of their lives to pass on free of pain rather than to linger on.
  • The practice of uyinjyr was simply animal sacrifice, as done by primitive societies. The vast majority of temple records in fact have to do with the maintenance of sacred herds and how many and what type of these animals were sacrificed.
  • Where these foul rumours come from is a conflation of lyllugew and ujinjyr in a most gross method. There are a number of temple records originating from bureaucratic administrators outside the temple hierarchy that make the suggestion to "increase sacrifices", with the grammar strongly suggesting that these were euphemistic terms, especially as these sorts of records typically appear around times of famine and plague. Further discussion appears to have been intentionally kept off the record, but from other records it is possible that the priests would lower their standards of acceptance for euthanasia so as to reduce the number of mouths to feed. However, given the surrounding circumstances, it is also possible that the famine and plague weakened the already vulnerable members of society to the point where they entered what they felt was a terminal decline. The few discussions of priests decrying the euphemistic use of the terminology appear to come in the Middle Empire when both euthanasia and animal sacrifice were in sharp decline. However, due to record degradation there are a number of cases of dubious examples of euphemistic usage attested, and further a number of scholars with obvious agendas have claimed that the records of animal sacrifice are in fact records of human sacrifice. Given the numbers present this very well should have rendered the empire devoid of life in short order.
  • This is further conflated with a phenomenon that had no specific term within Old Ymaryn, but was oft repeated within their dramatic writings and plays, what is now called 'downhill suicides'. These were cases of prominent individuals suffering some injury or failure, deciding that they had reached the peak of their ability, and choosing suicide over decline. This is a complex topic of scholarly and theological discussion, because while the plays mention it frequently, it remains unknown how prevalent it actually was. While some suggest that any individual with a minor imperfection might be pressured to kill themselves, and others suggest the phenomenon was confined to the upper classes, what evidence of the actual behaviour we have is scant and mixed. What is known is that there were many skilled individuals such as artisans, scholars, and priests who were physically lamed but lived long lives, and that there were distinct attempts to care for the mentally deficient, as in less enlightened times they were considered to be conduits for spirits to be cared for lest they reveal some prophecy or wisdom. Some rather disturbing notes suggest that alongside the potential increase in the euthanasia of elders and the chronically ill, during times of famine there was an uptick of "accidents" and "rituals gone wrong" among the least capable of these temple imbecile populations. However, there are also definitely individuals who did suffer injury of some sort who chose to kill themselves rather than continue on. The context of this is hard to tell, as while later priests decried the practice as vanity, accounts closer to the events tended to speak of things such as "self-sacrifice for the greater good". This sort of behaviour was occasionally done by those accused of serious crimes, who chose to protest their innocence in extreme ways by killing themselves rather than being found guilty.
  • Somewhat related is the phenomenon of "finding new fields", which was usually a euphemism for forcing an unwelcome member of society out through passive-aggressive social ostracism. Exile was frequently a death sentence, especially as those caught without proper travel authorization could be enslaved or executed for banditry if the local authorities did not want to welcome them into their community. The reasons for community hostility were never particularly elaborated on, as this phenomenon was mostly a lower class issue, and the literates only occasionally commented on it, usually when a particularly unjustified case caused some scandal among the nobility.
  • This final point ties into the also false accusation of the Ancient Ymaryn inviting individuals into their empire only to turn around and inflict slavery and death upon them. While true that the ancients were quite welcoming of outsiders in need, this was very frequently a method of demonstrating wealth and power among the upper classes. Furthermore their conception of slavery was one that an individual could only bring upon themselves via sin and criminality, hence why they were often actively opposed to other groups that were active slavers around them as they conceived of it as spreading sin and spiritual pollution. Thus when outsiders who were ignored of local norms trespassed on local laws, the punishments could result in a form of slavery or indentured servitude to the temples, who leased their labour out to the nobility but had rights of manumission. In certain phases there were a few notorious cases of outsiders choosing suicide before a trial rather than submit to judgement. Those spreading anti-Ymaryn slander will often take these examples, claim it was the norm, and then claim that all examples of euthanasia and animal sacrifice were in fact this sort of activity.
All in all, while there are in fact disturbing details of the ancestors of the Ymaryn and more distantly the Gylruv in the past, those were from less enlightened times, and when comparing the achievements of ancient nations none come out clean, and perhaps a handful can be counted as being as successful and advanced as the ancient Ymaryn. For most scholars these facts should be adequate to dismantle more sophisticated arguments of slanderers, but use caution in deploying them in public as the facts can easily confuse the uneducated. For those who wish to know more or participate in archival research, please send further correspondence with the Rainbow Trail Archival Society.

AN: This argument came up again elsewhere. So, while some may have extrapolated the situation being worse than it was, the ancient Ymaryn bureaucrats could be utterly ruthless towards their own population in bad times, and more than a few priests went along with them. I just figured that the idea had some applicability to propaganda, and a warning about some of the things the worst members of the People's society might latch onto as justification for horrors such as eugenics and fascist movements.
The people kept crazy good records if 1800's tech could easily link records of when there was a famine with what amounts to official correspondence and local bureaucratic memos. Especially since I think you implied that the Ymaryn backdated their calendar after the fact.
This is not really new news, but its still crazy.
 
Source, source, and source?

(not disputing the last point, which is why I'm not voting to raise taxes)
What we do passively affects what choices we are being offered, and how our nation develops indirectly. Look, for instance, at our continued expansion into Kyberia and promotion of non-Guild banking and money-transfers combining into the option of a Kyberian Company to semi-automate this process.
 
[] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
Levee en masse (proto-mobilization)

[] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
State Arsenal

[] [Levy] 1 PW - Taxes (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
War Bonds

[] [Levy] 2 PW - More taxes (-1 SoL, +1 Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
Income Tax (flat rate)

So I drew up some ideas on what the options will lead to. What do you guys think?

[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
Last edited:
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]

The constitutional call is going to be a problem as I think we're going to need to tank it for a little bit. Cause the biggest danger I see with calling a constitutional convention too soon is if the guild are too powerful then they will write themselves into the constitution and then we will never get rid of them.

So either gonna need to get Early Market Liberalization done and go in with a lot of political will which is impossible before the war is over. or we need to break the guilds first and I don't see that happening before the wars over either so were probably going to have to tank the consciousness with the resulting happiness damage at least once probably more.
 
[] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
Levee en masse (proto-mobilization)

[] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
State Arsenal

[] [Levy] 1 PW - Taxes (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
War Bonds

[] [Levy] 2 PW - More taxes (-1 SoL, +1 Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
Income Tax (flat rate)

So I drew up some ideas on what the options will lead to. What do you guys think?

I'm a little dubious about those ideas on what the options will lead to. Mostly because the previous thread had a major issue of poster conclusions being very misleading. If there is any AN post that suggests them, then I would agree with your first two ideas.

We already use crown debentures to fund this war, which are essentially war bonds.
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
I'm a little dubious about those ideas on what the options will lead to. Mostly because the previous thread had a major issue of poster conclusions being very misleading. If there is any AN post that suggests them, then I would agree with your first two ideas.

We already use crown debentures to fund this war, which are essentially war bonds.

AN never answers. But speculations tend to be right if sufficent depth of thought is invested.

Which wasn't here tho
 
What we do passively affects what choices we are being offered, and how our nation develops indirectly. Look, for instance, at our continued expansion into Kyberia and promotion of non-Guild banking and money-transfers combining into the option of a Kyberian Company to semi-automate this process.

Okay, but that does not establish that:
  1. Breaking the guilds will be a quick process
  2. The industry devoted to production & support of our military would not be run through/by/under the influence of the guilds
  3. Pleasing the Royalists right now will provide any benefit during our constitutional reforms, given that pleasing factions in this system is a one-off rather than continuous thing
All of which were positive claims made by HanEmpire, and all of which I would like sources (or at least arguments) for. The third point I can most see the reasoning behind, but I figured I'd throw it in anyway in case there was WoG more clearly confirming it, since otherwise it's still pretty speculative (albeit more plausible than the other two assertions).
 
The royalists may not be pleased with constitutional reform since that would imply the curtailment of the king's power.
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
We can as many develop industry as we got PW for as the perment +1IC of it can be used for its -1 temp IC cost.
So we can use the +1PW that we gain from this to pay for a develop industry next turn and get our IC back will keeping the +1 armies
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
[X] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Take advantage of the First Citizen being away from Tortun, order an all out assault in the Styrmyr front while you hold them in Wyrmyn
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
Meh, I was just rambling.

On that note though what are your thoughts on where they'll lead?

[] [Levy] 1 PW - Actually, no, no you don't

Might be a bit of hubris. Spend PW to conserve resources.

[] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)

This would reenact the strain we faced back in historical times when we went Full Levy. Known resultant issues(and thus innovation directions):
-Loss of ablebodied men from the farms, then the guilds to carry crossbow and spear.
--Guilds overdraw on manpower means they are unable to uphold their charters to produce needed equipment. Forced to either agitate for the end of the war, agitate for protection of members from the draft or to accept and train more women in the guilds.
---Would NOT lead to breaking of Guilds for corporations. Corporations cannot outbid the guilds for the scarce supply of remaining manpower.

-Post war release of extended levies will flood the labor market with mass unemployed peoples.
--This can exceed the guilds' ability to re-employ, while driving labor costs down so the corporations have a ready pool of cheap manpower with varied skills.
--This will result in a nasty SoL crash because sub-minimum wage employment will make these companies horrible conditions to try to squeeze out a profit.
--When the Happiness crashes as a result you'd have a lot of poor people who know how to fight being very angry.

-Difficulties of supplying large amounts of food and equipment are known, armies would be forced to rely more heavily on forage and go underequipped.
--Increased casualties likely to provoke blameslinging between nobility/administration and guilds, as production increase is difficult with manpower being sent to the field.
---Can fall either way, but current mood would be more likely to blame the crown/nobility than the guilds.

Note that all of these are only triggered by drawing particularly deeply on the levies. The first few call to arms are mainly pulling in the poor.

We're not sure how deep this is drawing and AN won't tell because we won't know how bad a full mobilization is(after all the Republicans seem to be able to do it fine!)...but the stat changes point to the IC crunch being the visible indicator of said strain, so barring other stressors, society can get over it without breaking the guilds.

[] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)

This is setting up a state arsenal(once more). Primary factors here:
-Partial or full Nationalization of certain guilds
--Increases crown control over these guilds, reducing the ability of the guilds to hold us hostage by control of production, as we would still be able to produce weapons
--Increases guild influence on state, as the nationalized guilds have greater access to the ears of nobility.

-Provides example of guild adaptation, nationalized Guilds would be merged across cities to streamline production.
--Like Constitutional Monarchy provides a moderate option for shifting away from Monarchy without decapitations, this provides a partial transition, though Planned Economy has its own pains, its not as bad as Guild Mercantile.

-Increased load of production puts significant strain on the Guild economy(as shown by the permanent IC drop), which simply isn't designed for mass production.
--State organization and stewardship says the answer is Standardization(which we start with Rifling) -> Production Line once they get sick of the parts made in one branch of the state controlled guild not matching other branches.
--Which is a step towards Factories

Strategically it also has significant advantages for a stalling war strategy as it relies on us having a functioning economy(as opposed to the on fire colonial powers and the post revolution on fire republican economies that just misplaced half their experts)

[] [Levy] 1 PW - Taxes (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
[] [Levy] 2 PW - More taxes (-1 SoL, +1 Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)

These are just putting the load onto our population. Currently the projected reaction is just driving people into the arms of the Republicans.

[] [War] 0 PW - Reform armies, find an advantageous place to force a decisive battle

Traditional European warfare. Which we were getting our ass kicked at. We can of course just throw more bodies at it and show that our ass is rock hard. Or they might shove their boot through our butt.

[] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds

Traditional Steppe warfare. This area is where we are advantaged as we have control of the steppes, and we stopped the Hordes from hitting Europe proper, so they never really developed significant anti-skirmish tactics with us absorbing all the steppe rampages.

Strategically this relies on us having a more stable economy than they do, because our allies are coming round the rear of the Tortun and their economy is on fire. It won't do much damage to them, it just lets them damage themselves.

Backfire may involve them forcing an assault on our land, which would be a gamble on their part.

[] [War] 1 PW - Take advantage of the First Citizen being away from Tortun, order an all out assault in the Styrmyr front while you hold them in Wyrmyn

This goes for a flanking assault, and relies HEAVILY on our commanders being badass enough to coordinate this, because its complicated. Lots of failure points.

If it works though...well, thats a self defensed landgrab.
The problem is our enemy has multiple good generals, so they can split their efforts far more efficiently than we can.

[] [War] 3 PW - Draw them into the plains and steppes of Gylruv while burning everything behind you and slowing their advance with harassing tactics, see if they can still fight without food (+1 Militancy, destruction of 1-3 points of active development, randomly lowering IC, SoL, Education, and Innovation to adjust for loss)

How we dealt with Genghis. Mutual suicide..
They will collapse. So can we.


[] [Research] Academic Freedom (0/???) [Social]

Its a super bad time for Academic Freedom as an idea, because once this firms up as an idea we're going to be seeing the republican ideas erupt domestically again, while the Guilds get mad.
It SHOULD help Innovation however, as it develops cultural concepts blocking the Guilds from blocking ideas they don't like from being developed in the name of academic curiosity.

[] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]

We're pairing this with a big industrial ramp up. This is basically how the Republican economies are going to be pounding us later on, and we want to race them to it. That it compounds the Social research bonus is a plus.

The Guilds won't be too happy about the idea, but currently we can point them to "make enough shit and then we can talk"

[] [Research] Early Modern Logic (0/20-25?) [Science]

Foundational science, and normally what we'd beeline as a research accelerator. Its just...not the time to pursue foundational sciences.

Also a funny
Ugh... some days Poetyr wished he were one of those lazy, indulgent kings who got his advisors to do everything for him. Did he not deserve his rest? Such as the guillotine or a tumble out of a balcony head first?
*Across the sea of time, kings of centuries past raise a toast*
 
[X] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)

[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds

[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
Last edited:
Camping with them had not been something he had been expecting to do, but things in the Wyrmyn Front had abruptly gone from stable to disastrous the Qeshyks were the fastest around to evacuate him backwards while the rest of the army desperately tried to reform. As it turned out, vyn Hohozyn had enough good generals that he could slip away from the Styrmyr Front and aid his "allies" in the place no one expected him to be. Crafty bastard. Fortunately the troops he was using were less than the cream of Tortun and it was obvious that he was using a simplified version of his playbook to compensate, but he still spanked the Kielmyr and the People before anyone really knew what was going on.


[] [Levy] 1 PW - Actually, no, no you don't
[X] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
[] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Taxes (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [Levy] 2 PW - More taxes (-1 SoL, +1 Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)

[X] [War] 0 PW - Reform armies, find an advantageous place to force a decisive battle
[] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [War] 1 PW - Take advantage of the First Citizen being away from Tortun, order an all out assault in the Styrmyr front while you hold them in Wyrmyn
[] [War] 3 PW - Draw them into the plains and steppes of Gylruv while burning everything behind you and slowing their advance with harassing tactics, see if they can still fight without food (+1 Militancy, destruction of 1-3 points of active development, randomly lowering IC, SoL, Education, and Innovation to adjust for loss)

[X] [Research] Academic Freedom (0/???) [Social]
[] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
[] [Research] Early Modern Logic (0/20-25?) [Science]
 
[X] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Take advantage of the First Citizen being away from Tortun, order an all out assault in the Styrmyr front while you hold them in Wyrmyn
[X] [Research] Early Modern Logic (0/20-25?) [Science]
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]

You must construct additional cannon foundries.
 
[X] [Levy] 0 PW - Draw up more from the levy (-1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Armies, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
[X] [Levy] 1 PW - Devote industry to continual production and support (-1 IC, +1 Armies, +1 PW from Royalists, +1 Temp Militancy)
[X] [War] 1 PW - Refuse direct battle, use the Qeshyks to make them chase ghosts while you lick your wounds
[X] [Research] Early Market Liberalization (0/25-40?) [Social]
 
Back
Top