Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

[Fouredged Sword]

Another note about acknowledging the natives. The Sketch seem sensitive to prestige. They REALLY LIKE having the most. Spending some to keep Hex off our back will also keep the Sketch feeling superior.

Dumb fat and happy. They will work with us more if we are willing to allow their ego to take the front stage.

AND it sets a precedent that, combined with our high trust, WE are who decided who is ligament and who are just bit players.

 

[Killer_Whale]

Third Coalition: We only fought Wyrmyn while everyone else dogpiled Faron.
Vortuga: Navy gutted, economy on fire. They were still defeating us until the Khem got lucky.
Ochruhr: All their neighbours decided to join in on that one.
Maha: Technologically and numerically inferior to us + Black Sheep.

We've never actually fought a 1v1 against a peer power or against an alliance as strong as our own alliance. Let's hope we never have to.

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With all that veterancy on top of our tech, is it any wonder that our army is considered the strongest in the world?

 

[Fouredged Sword]

With all that veterancy on top of our tech, is it any wonder that our army is considered the strongest in the world?

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It also helps that all the other powers can look at us as SEE our strategic reserve depth. Seriously, we can just pound out temp armies until we depopulate any enemy. Any really important war VS us almost cannot be won because we have such an ability to just keep sending men.

 

[noliar]

Our ships can't force individual elements of the Nohon navy to battle by attacking the blockade because they're prepared to let the blockade slip in order to escape bad odds and concentrate.

If we attack their ports though, they have to try and cover them and if we use our instrumentation advantage to attack out of the open sea unpredictably they have to split up to do it. We'd have to contend with harbour defences of course, but they've been so dominant in that region of sea for so long that most of the properly fortified stuff on the Kyberia coast will be pointing inland. Also we'll be raiding minor ports and fishing villages just as often even though it does less damage because it will increase the political pressure to spread themselves thin.

It will weaken them for the land campaign too.

My war aim would be to force them off this continent and get a port on the new world west coast as a concession. What the Hung will demand to not go full genocide once they've got a navy I don't know.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

Thoughts on the Khem refugees.

We should take them. Why? Khem absolutly needs to be strong and stable to discourage the Hax. One big slave revolt could trigger the Hax attack. We NEED them to be as strong as posible. Spending -3 temp IC or doing an extra railroad a little sooner is a small price to pay.

 

[Korporati]

Another note about acknowledging the natives. The Sketch seem sensitive to prestige. They REALLY LIKE having the most. Spending some to keep Hex off our back will also keep the Sketch feeling superior.

Dumb fat and happy. They will work with us more if we are willing to allow their ego to take the front stage.

AND it sets a precedent that, combined with our high trust, WE are who decided who is ligament and who are just bit players.

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Obviously, only the British empire may rule the seas and therefore, the world.

For the sun will never sets upon the British empire, from the waste fields of India to the coasts of Newfoundland, The British empire shall forever have its place in the sun.

 

[noliar]

If we want to reinforce the Khem heartland we can just march armies down the not!Levant coast and fuck the Highlanders. Problem is the action is likely to be in the west. What is the Khem railway network like?

 

[liberty90]

I think that I will vote for the Cornplan. Sounds rational this time.

I must also apologize for doom-talk last turn, as there is obviously no doom. I was very concerned about our SoL and indeed I still believe that we cannot ignore native SoL concerns.

 

[Pyre]

[][Agenda] Plan Nevermind, my failure is prominent since math doesn't work
-[][Agenda] Acknowledge Civilized Tribes: 0 PW (-5 Prestige, Royalists angered, Liberals pleased)
-[][Agenda] Accept Khemetri Population: 0 PW (+1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, Kyberi Settlement action, Conservatives neutral, Liberals pleased)

-[][Agenda] Develop Transport Infrastructure - 0 PW, -3 Temp IC, +1 Max Development
-[][Agenda][Agenda] Develop Industry - 0 PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 1, -1 Temp IC (One Use per Turn)
-[][Agenda] Develop Industry - 1PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 2, -2 Temp IC
-[][Agenda] Develop Railroads 1 PW: -2 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 Railroads

-[][Agenda] Increase Navies - 2PW: Increases Navies by 1, -1 IC
-[][Agenda] Promote Trade- 1 PW: -2 Temp Trust, +1 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn)
-[][Agenda] Sell Crown Corporation (0/13) -0 PW: +1 temp SoL (Usable once per turn)

-5 PW -5 prestige, -2 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness,
-2 Temp Trust, +2 Temp SoL, +4 development, +0 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 railroad, +1 Navy
This leaves us with 4 PW if we want to do a ConConv next turn. Increases in our transport, Navy, SoL, Max IC, and rail. The only thing it doesn't do is reduce food prices.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

But we MUST reduce food prices. Perm trust is huge and saving Hung is absolute.

 

[Xon]

@Pyre reducing food prices achieves multiple aims. It helps the Khemetri with their own internal disputes, and will stabilizes the Hung until we have more PW to throw at the problem and can break the cordon the Nohon are holding.

The Hung are our largest neighbor, and one we have poor relations with by virtue of them not god damn talking. They are also a huge untapped market.

 

[Pyre]

An alternative then:
[][Agenda] Plan The math still doesn't work because I was labouring on a faulty assumption
-[][Agenda]Acknowledge Civilized Tribes: 0 PW (-5 Prestige, Royalists angered, Liberals pleased)
-[][Agenda]Accept Khemetri Population: 0 PW (+1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, Kyberi Settlement action, Conservatives neutral, Liberals pleased)
-[][Agenda] Reduce Food Prices: 1 PW (-3 Temp Trust, -1 SoL, +2 Trust)

-[][Agenda] Develop Transport Infrastructure - 0 PW, -3 Temp IC, +1 Max Development
-[][Agenda][Agenda] Develop Industry - 0 PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 1, -1 Temp IC (One Use per Turn)
-[][Agenda] Develop Industry - 1PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 2, -2 Temp IC
-[][Agenda] Develop Railroads 1 PW: -2 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 Railroads

-[][Agenda] Increase Navies - 2PW: Increases Navies by 1, -1 IC

-[][Agenda] Promote Trade- 1 PW: -2 Temp Trust, +1 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn)
-[][Agenda] Sell Crown Corporation (0/13) -0 PW: +1 temp SoL (Usable once per turn)
-[][Agenda] Diplomatic Outreach (Hung)- 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust

Edit:
This also leaves us one 1 action away from fixing Isolated hinterlands since rail counts.
I don't remember how the faction pleasing math works, we should get either 2 or 3 temp IC from 3 liberal pleasing actions. If it's 3 temp IC we can do it if not we'd need a raise taxes as well.

-7 PW, -3/4 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, -2 Temp Trust, +1Temp SoL, +0 Sol, +4 development, +0 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 railroad, +1 Navy, -5 prestige, +1 Innovation

This leaves us with 2 PW so we can do a ConConv in a couple of turns. It increases our transport, Navy, Trust, Max IC, and rail. It finishes placating the conservatives, feeds the Hung, and is SoL neutral.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

Are you counting to SoL from the gold mine? I ask because we don't know if it is 1 or 2.

I am also tempted to suggest we try to work in 2 navies. This will please the royalists and pass a PW on to next turn. If you are not counting the gold mine perhaps drop the premote trade. Keeping temp trust high is goos and we get +1 PERM SoL from gold.

A second Navy is a huge boost Vs Nohon.

 

[Pyre]

As far as I can tell, Compared to Corns plan:
Plan Many Heads Full of Food saves us +2 PW, +1 Temp IC, +1 SoL, +1 SoL, +1 Innovation
No change: Navies, Perm Trust, Temp Militancy, Temp Consciousness, or Prestige
Costs: -1 temp trust

 

[Pyre]

Are you counting to SoL from the gold mine? I ask because we don't know if it is 1 or 2.

I am also tempted to suggest we try to work in 2 navies. This will please the royalists and pass a PW on to next turn. If you are not counting the gold mine perhaps drop the premote trade. Keeping temp trust high is goos and we get +1 PERM SoL from gold.

A second Navy is a huge boost Vs Nohon.

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No, I wasn't. Since I wasn't sure how much it was going to be I figured it would be better to not depend on it. I agree that an additional Navy would be good but unfortunately, I can't balance it because it would reduce our IC which would reduce our temp IC so our Temp IC would be 0 so Unhappiness hits.

 

[sunrise]

An alternative then:
[][Agenda] Plan Many Heads Full of Food
-[][Agenda]Acknowledge Civilized Tribes: 0 PW (-5 Prestige, Royalists angered, Liberals pleased)
-[][Agenda]Accept Khemetri Population: 0 PW (+1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, Kyberi Settlement action, Conservatives neutral, Liberals pleased)
-[][Agenda] Reduce Food Prices: 1 PW (-3 Temp Trust, -1 SoL, +2 Trust)

-[][Agenda] Develop Transport Infrastructure - 0 PW, -3 Temp IC, +1 Max Development
-[][Agenda][Agenda] Develop Industry - 0 PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 1, -1 Temp IC (One Use per Turn)
-[][Agenda] Develop Industry - 1PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 2, -2 Temp IC
-[][Agenda] Develop Railroads 1 PW: -2 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 Railroads

-[][Agenda] Increase Navies - 2PW: Increases Navies by 1, -1 IC

-[][Agenda] Promote Trade- 1 PW: -2 Temp Trust, +1 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn)
-[][Agenda] Sell Crown Corporation (0/13) -0 PW: +1 temp SoL (Usable once per turn)
-[][Agenda] Diplomatic Outreach (Hung)- 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust

-7 PW, -2 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, -2 Temp Trust, +1 Temp SoL,
-1 Sol, +4 development, +0 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 railroad, +1 Navy, -5 prestige,

This leaves us with 2 PW so we can do a ConConv in a couple of turns. It increases our transport, Navy, Trust, Max IC, and rail. It finishes placating the conservatives, feeds the Hung, and is SoL neutral.

Edit:
This also should fix Isolated hinterlands since rail counts, so our stat changes would be
-7 PW, -2 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, -2 Temp Trust, +1Temp SoL, +0 Sol, +4 development, +0 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 railroad, +1 Navy, -5 prestige, +1 Innovation

So this is Perm SoL neutral and temp SoL positive before calculating in any SoL increase from the Goldmine.

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I think -[][Agenda]Accept Khemetri Population: 0 PW (+1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, Kyberi Settlement action, Conservatives neutral, Liberals pleased) increases the needed transportation to remove the isolated hinterlands by one

 

[Manget]

An alternative then:
[][Agenda] Plan Many Heads Full of Food
-[][Agenda]Acknowledge Civilized Tribes: 0 PW (-5 Prestige, Royalists angered, Liberals pleased)
-[][Agenda]Accept Khemetri Population: 0 PW (+1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, Kyberi Settlement action, Conservatives neutral, Liberals pleased)
-[][Agenda] Reduce Food Prices: 1 PW (-3 Temp Trust, -1 SoL, +2 Trust)

-[][Agenda] Develop Transport Infrastructure - 0 PW, -3 Temp IC, +1 Max Development
-[][Agenda][Agenda] Develop Industry - 0 PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 1, -1 Temp IC (One Use per Turn)
-[][Agenda] Develop Industry - 1PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 2, -2 Temp IC
-[][Agenda] Develop Railroads 1 PW: -2 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 Railroads

-[][Agenda] Increase Navies - 2PW: Increases Navies by 1, -1 IC

-[][Agenda] Promote Trade- 1 PW: -2 Temp Trust, +1 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn)
-[][Agenda] Sell Crown Corporation (0/13) -0 PW: +1 temp SoL (Usable once per turn)
-[][Agenda] Diplomatic Outreach (Hung)- 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust

-7 PW, -2 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, -2 Temp Trust, +1 Temp SoL,
-1 Sol, +4 development, +0 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 railroad, +1 Navy, -5 prestige,

This leaves us with 2 PW so we can do a ConConv in a couple of turns. It increases our transport, Navy, Trust, Max IC, and rail. It finishes placating the conservatives, feeds the Hung, and is SoL neutral.

Edit:
This also should fix Isolated hinterlands since rail counts, so our stat changes would be
-7 PW, -2 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, +1 temp Consciousness, -2 Temp Trust, +1Temp SoL, +0 Sol, +4 development, +0 IC, +1 Max IC, +1 railroad, +1 Navy, -5 prestige, +1 Innovation

So this is Perm SoL neutral and temp SoL positive before calculating in any SoL increase from the Goldmine.

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If I'm reading this right you're spending 8 Temp IC when we only have 3

 

[Fouredged Sword]

Have we considered trading the premote trade for a DO to Sketch to "hire" Sketch "captains" for our trade fleet allowing us to fly Sketch flags and bypass the blockade?

 

[ExNihilo]

I'm really leery about Sell Crown Corperation. I understand it's wartime, but privatization could be dangerous in the long run.

 

[8bitBob]

This also should fix Isolated hinterlands since rail counts

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Not sure how you figure this:

Develop Transport Infrastructure - 1 PW, -3 Temp IC, +1 Max Development, (8 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 3 more uses to remove Isolated Hinterlands) (0 PW for the first use a turn)

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We need 3 DTI or Rail actions to remove Isolated Hinterlands. Your plan does 1x Rail 1x DTI for 2 progress, but then takes 1 step back with Accept Khem Pop. You're still a full 2 actions away from removing the debuff.

As for the plan as a whole, it doesn't really work. You're spending way more Temp IC than we have available. Our IC is at 6(3). Your plan spends... 6 Temp IC? Keep in mind, stats granted from raising Perm Stats or pleasing factions cannot be spent in this subturn. You need to raise the Temp Stats needed for your plan with actions. It's also Perm IC neutral, so that wouldn't help things anyway.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

I'm really leery about Sell Crown Corperation. I understand it's wartime, but privatization could be dangerous in the long run.

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SOME can also be a good thing. I worry when we start getting to 7/13, but I assume we are selling off the least critical and most inefficient compared to the market first. At 10/13 we are likely selling steel/rail/bank assets and that is bad. This is likely releasing the profitable dye making crown corp ro the market.

 

[Dimonay]

I'm really leery about Sell Crown Corperation. I understand it's wartime, but privatization could be dangerous in the long run.

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I wouldn't be, AN has said that the 13 we can sell is not all crown corporations only the ones we can sell before going over to another economic system. He has also said that selling some would be good for the economy as right now they are so big that they are suppressing all competition while being quite inefficient.

 

[hYGP]

Negaverse: And Now For Something Completely Different​

[X][Diff] Impossible

Never let it be said that IR is afraid of a challenge.

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The Season The Red Hawk Flew Free
​

Otetiani gazed out over the rippling fields, standing atop the grassy knoll. His brother Orenda, seated just beneath him, had wanted to see the sunset on the plains; for what reason, Otetiani knew not, but as he had learned better than anyone else in the Grand Tribe, Orenda's wishes were best followed.

For Orenda was one with the Hawk in a way no others could match; despite his sole remaining milky-white eye and severely stunted growth, he had been the one to lead the Tribe into becoming the Grand Tribe, taking the scraps of humiliated People and sending them rippling through the whitefolk, dancing around the whitefolk's angry guns and "cutting the tendons of the whitefolk and sacrificing the meat to the Spirits", as Orenda said.

Now, the Grand Tribe was strong in a way that the scattered People had not been, and People they were, for although they had had their differences before, in the face of the whitefolk the spirits had made clear that as one People they must become. Nothing proved the success of the People more than the color of the tents behind him, painted to different spirits and different tribes but offering the same white smoke to the Spirits.

"Brother," Orenda rasped out. His was a fragile vessel for the Hawk, white hair at the young age of twenty and three winters. "The Hawk stands before the setting sun, one red wing pointed South."

Otetiani knew that Orenda had the vision from the Hawk. But he now headed the Grand Tribe, and could he really ask all of them to up and move just for Orenda's one vision here?

[] Go with Orenda, alone.

[] Bring the very best on this quest.

[] The Hawk has made clear its will. The Grand Tribe follows.

holy shit Shaman you really don't pull your punches.

[X] The Hawk has made clear its will. The Grand Tribe follows.

We're already dead; might as well stake everything on the setting changes, fingers crossed.

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Yeah, while losing everything is bad, as is we lose everything by default.

Let's cast the die and see where we end up.

[X] The Hawk has made clear its will. The Grand Tribe follows.

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Actually, if anything, the first two options are worse.

For Orenda was one with the Hawk in a way no others could match; despite his sole remaining milky-white eye and severely stunted growth, he had been the one to lead the Tribe into becoming the Grand Tribe, taking the scraps of humiliated People and sending them rippling through the whitefolk, dancing around the whitefolk's angry guns and "cutting the tendons of the whitefolk and sacrificing the meat to the Spirits", as Orenda said.

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Orenda is definitely a Spiritual Genius, and is pretty much singlehandedly responsible for where the Grand Tribe even got to at quest start. Otetiani didn't mention any other leaders, so I'm not sure about the rest of the leadership.

Now we can see that:
-Go alone
--Strips the Grand Tribe of leadership.
---Factionalism and losing to the whitefolk
---Loss condition
-Go with the best
--Devestates the Grand Tribe leadership
---Interim leaders will be completely incompetent and blow apart the Grand Tribe
-All-in
--Keeps the Grand Tribe together
--Gives a hope of a chance for something lucky to happen

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The Hawk calls? WE MOVE AS ONE.
[X] The Hawk has made clear its will. The Grand Tribe follows.

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Die seperately? No, we will all prosper or die together!

[X] The Hawk has made clear its will. The Grand Tribe follows.

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Oh god we are so behind the curve it's not even funny. The 100M sprint has started and we haven't even been born yet.

Maybe next time we don't choose IMPOSSIBLE on the civ quest difficulty?
[X] The Hawk has made clear its will. The Grand Tribe follows.

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FIVE TEN HAWK PAGES LATER

Alright, vote closed! Let me roll for the turn:

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edit: what the everliving fuck

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[Random Member]

@Academia Nut Have we heard anything about whoever is leading the Civilized Tribes? My money is personally on a combination of Not!Nat Turner and Not!John Horse/Osceola.

 

[Kiba]

CT: Who the heck are the Dual Crown?